date:20231113

[no subject]

2023-11-13 Thread Ben Warner

Sd

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Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

2023-11-13 Thread Evan Reese

Well I did some Googling on whether facial expressions are universal, 
and here's a good article about that:



https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/darwin-was-wrong-your-facial-expressions-do-not-reveal-your-emotions/


Turns out that those AI interpretations are not necessarily reliable.

But it is also true that the interpretations of sighted people may not 
be reliable either.


Evan


On 11/13/2023 10:36 PM, Mary Otten wrote:

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone


On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
wrote:

Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements.



-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because an 
artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have to 
believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have deductive 
reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, if you’re 
totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through hearsay 
whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re still going 
by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. Every single 
thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or interpretation 
of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every description is 
suspect since no two people are going to take away the same thing. That’s why 
it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence Gives an answer that 
isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my reasoning to figure it 
out.

Kellie and my lovable Lady J
Sent from my iPhone


On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we could 
- hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees.

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Robert Doc Wright
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

What is wrong with the truth?

   - Original Message -
   From: Cristóbal Muñoz 
   To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
   Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?


   This topic reminds me of these two articles.

   Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 


   The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial expressions by 
blind people: 

   Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used 
it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I 
held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone in 
my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool…

   At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the 
bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
editorializing?



   Cristóbal



   -Original Message-
   From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
   To: viphone@googlegroups.com
   Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?



   What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you as 
"serious" because you weren't smiling.





   -Original Message-

   From: viphone@googlegroups.com   
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of Malcolm 
Parfitt

   Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

2023-11-13 Thread Sieghard Weitzel

Anybody who does not like or agree with some of the interpretations of the AI 
is free not to use the service.
Just as you may not appreciate it, I have so far felt that even descriptions 
which included descriptions of facial expressions were actually amazingly 
correct when I asked sighted people to tell me what they thought of the 
desdcription and whether they agtreed that the interpretation was good or not.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
> 
> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
> interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because 
> an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have 
> to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have 
> deductive reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, 
> if you’re totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through 
> hearsay whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re 
> still going by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. 
> Every single thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or 
> interpretation of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every 
> description is suspect since no two people are going to take away the same 
> thing. That’s why it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence 
> Gives an answer that isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my 
> reasoning to figure it out.
> 
> Kellie and my lovable Lady J  
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we 
>> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
>> Of Robert Doc Wright
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> What is wrong with the truth?
>> 
>>   - Original Message -
>>   From: Cristóbal Muñoz   
>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com   
>>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
>>   Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> 
>>   This topic reminds me of these two articles.
>> 
>>   Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 
>> 
>> 
>>   The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial 
>> expressions by blind people: 
>> 
>> 
>>   Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used 
>> it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I 
>> held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone 
>> in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
>> region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
>> wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool…
>> 
>>   At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the 
>> bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
>> editorializing?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   Cristóbal
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   -Original Message-
>>   From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
>> Sieghard Weitzel
>>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>>

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

2023-11-13 Thread Sieghard Weitzel

Then next time don’t hold your coffee beans with your hairy arm 藍

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
Cristóbal Muñoz
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 1:09 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

This topic reminds me of these two articles.

Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and 
shame

The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial expressions 
by blind people:

Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used it 
to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I held 
the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone in my 
right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, region 
where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I wouldn’t 
gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool…

At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the bag 
was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
editorializing?

Cristóbal

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you as 
"serious" because you weren't smiling.

-Original Message-

From: viphone@googlegroups.com 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of 
Malcolm Parfitt

Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM

To: viphone@googlegroups.com

Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Hello friends.

I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea what 
I look like.

However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when we 
were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the results I 
obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s description was:

The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair is 
short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
clean-shaven.

He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small 
embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.

The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central element 
of the image. There is no additional information provided about the man, such 
as his name or what he is doing in the pub.

What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a sighted 
person looking in a mirror.

The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I had 
never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are expressions 
learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of sighted people. 
 I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s description of my 
expression was accurate then why would I look serious?

Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do?

Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.

Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested in 
your opinions.

Malcolm Parfitt

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RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

2023-11-13 Thread danneyyates

I'm loving the artificial intelligence breakthroughs.  As for our facial  
expressions, look at it this way, it is mostly a sighted world and most of our 
light dependent friends equate smiles and attentive facial expressions in a 
favorable way; regardless of the culture from which we hail.  Find a person you 
trust and get a little coaching if you aren't clear about it.  I had vision 
until around age 19 and recall the difference in how a person came across when 
they didn't smile, as appropriate.  
Dan

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
> 
> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
> interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because 
> an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have 
> to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have 
> deductive reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, 
> if you’re totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through 
> hearsay whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re 
> still going by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. 
> Every single thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or 
> interpretation of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every 
> description is suspect since no two people are going to take away the same 
> thing. That’s why it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence 
> Gives an answer that isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my 
> reasoning to figure it out.
> 
> Kellie and my lovable Lady J  
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we 
>> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
>> Of Robert Doc Wright
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> What is wrong with the truth?
>> 
>>   - Original Message -
>>   From: Cristóbal Muñoz   
>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com   
>>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
>>   Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> 
>>   This topic reminds me of these two articles.
>> 
>>   Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 
>> 
>> 
>>   The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial 
>> expressions by blind people: 
>> 
>> 
>>   Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used 
>> it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I 
>> held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone 
>> in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
>> region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
>> wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool…
>> 
>>   At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the 
>> bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
>> editorializing?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   Cristóbal
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   -Original Message-
>>   From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
>> Sieghard

Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

2023-11-13 Thread Mary Otten

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
> 
> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
> interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because 
> an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have 
> to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have 
> deductive reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, 
> if you’re totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through 
> hearsay whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re 
> still going by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. 
> Every single thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or 
> interpretation of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every 
> description is suspect since no two people are going to take away the same 
> thing. That’s why it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence 
> Gives an answer that isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my 
> reasoning to figure it out.
> 
> Kellie and my lovable Lady J  
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we 
>> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
>> Of Robert Doc Wright
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> What is wrong with the truth?
>> 
>>   - Original Message -
>>   From: Cristóbal Muñoz   
>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com   
>>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
>>   Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> 
>>   This topic reminds me of these two articles.
>> 
>>   Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 
>> 
>> 
>>   The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial 
>> expressions by blind people: 
>> 
>> 
>>   Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used 
>> it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I 
>> held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone 
>> in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
>> region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
>> wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool…
>> 
>>   At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the 
>> bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
>> editorializing?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   Cristóbal
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   -Original Message-
>>   From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
>> Sieghard Weitzel
>>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>>   Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you 
>> as "serious" because you weren't smiling.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   -Original Message-
>> 
>>   From: viphone@googlegroups.com   
>> mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
>> Malcolm Parfitt
>> 
>>   Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM
>> 
>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
>> 
>>   Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   Hello friends.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   I appreciate that

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

2023-11-13 Thread realman02 via VIPhone

Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements. 



-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because an 
artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have to 
believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have deductive 
reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, if you’re 
totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through hearsay 
whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re still going 
by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. Every single 
thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or interpretation 
of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every description is 
suspect since no two people are going to take away the same thing. That’s why 
it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence Gives an answer that 
isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my reasoning to figure it 
out. 

Kellie and my lovable Lady J  
Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we 
> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Robert Doc Wright
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> What is wrong with the truth?
> 
>- Original Message - 
>From: Cristóbal Muñoz   
>To: viphone@googlegroups.com   
>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
>Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> 
>This topic reminds me of these two articles.
> 
>Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 
> 
>  
> 
>The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial 
> expressions by blind people: 
>  
> 
>Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used 
> it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I 
> held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone 
> in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
> region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
> wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool… 
> 
>At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the 
> bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
> editorializing? 
> 
> 
> 
>Cristóbal
> 
> 
> 
>-Original Message-
>From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Sieghard Weitzel
>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
>To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> 
> 
>What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you 
> as "serious" because you weren't smiling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>-Original Message-
> 
>From: viphone@googlegroups.com   
> mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
> Malcolm Parfitt
> 
>Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM
> 
>To: viphone@googlegroups.com  
> 
>Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> 
> 
>Hello friends.
> 
> 
> 
>I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea 
> what I look like.
> 
> 
> 
>However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when 
> we were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the 
> results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s 
> description was:
> 
> 
> 
>The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair 
> is short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
> hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
> expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
> clean-shaven.
> 
> 
> 
>He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a 
> small embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in 
> a cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a

Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

2023-11-13 Thread Kellie

I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because an 
artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have to 
believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have deductive 
reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, if you’re 
totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through hearsay 
whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re still going 
by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. Every single 
thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or interpretation 
of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every description is 
suspect since no two people are going to take away the same thing. That’s why 
it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence Gives an answer that 
isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my reasoning to figure it 
out. 

Kellie and my lovable Lady J  
Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we 
> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Robert Doc Wright
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> What is wrong with the truth?
> 
>- Original Message - 
>From: Cristóbal Muñoz   
>To: viphone@googlegroups.com   
>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
>Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> 
>This topic reminds me of these two articles.
> 
>Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 
> 
>  
> 
>The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial 
> expressions by blind people: 
>  
> 
>Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used 
> it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I 
> held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone 
> in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
> region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
> wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool… 
> 
>At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the 
> bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
> editorializing? 
> 
> 
> 
>Cristóbal
> 
> 
> 
>-Original Message-
>From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Sieghard Weitzel
>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
>To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> 
> 
>What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you 
> as "serious" because you weren't smiling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>-Original Message-
> 
>From: viphone@googlegroups.com   
> mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
> Malcolm Parfitt
> 
>Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM
> 
>To: viphone@googlegroups.com  
> 
>Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> 
> 
>Hello friends.
> 
> 
> 
>I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea 
> what I look like.
> 
> 
> 
>However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when 
> we were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the 
> results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s 
> description was:
> 
> 
> 
>The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair 
> is short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
> hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
> expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
> clean-shaven.
> 
> 
> 
>He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a 
> small embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in 
> a cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.
> 
> 
> 
>The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central 
> element of the image. There is no additional information provided about the 
> man, such as his name or what he is doing in the pub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a 
> sighted person looking

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

2023-11-13 Thread Carolyn Arnold

I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we could 
- hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Robert Doc Wright
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

What is wrong with the truth?

- Original Message - 
From: Cristóbal Muñoz   
To: viphone@googlegroups.com   
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

This topic reminds me of these two articles.

Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 

The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial 
expressions by blind people: 

Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I 
used it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. 
I held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone 
in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool… 

At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that 
the bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
editorializing? 

Cristóbal

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described 
you as "serious" because you weren't smiling.

-Original Message-

From: viphone@googlegroups.com   
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Malcolm Parfitt

Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM

To: viphone@googlegroups.com  

Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Hello friends.

I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no 
idea what I look like.

However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently 
when we were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the 
results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s 
description was:

The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His 
hair is short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head 
of hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
clean-shaven.

He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a 
small embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.

The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central 
element of the image. There is no additional information provided about the 
man, such as his name or what he is doing in the pub.

What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a 
sighted person looking in a mirror.

The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I 
had never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are 
expressions learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of 
sighted people.  I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s 
description of my expression was accurate then why would I look serious?

Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do?

Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.

Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most 
interested in your opinions.

Malcolm Parfitt

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Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

2023-11-13 Thread alban hoxha

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  on behalf of Malcolm 
Parfitt 
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 1:08:41 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Well I’m interested to learn that I am not the only one here that roasts his 
own coffee!  I have done so for around 20 years.

Welcome to the club.

Here in the UK I buy from hasbean.
Malcolm Parfitt

On 13 Nov 2023, at 22:05, Cristobal Munoz  wrote:

Good one…

On Nov 13, 2023, at 1:49 PM, Robert Doc Wright  
wrote:

What is wrong with the truth?
- Original Message -
From: Cristóbal Muñoz
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

This topic reminds me of these two articles.

Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and 
shame

The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial expressions 
by blind people:

Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used it 
to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I held 
the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone in my 
right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, region 
where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I wouldn’t 
gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool…

At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the bag 
was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
editorializing?

Cristóbal

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you as 
"serious" because you weren't smiling.

-Original Message-

From: viphone@googlegroups.com 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of 
Malcolm Parfitt

Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM

To: viphone@googlegroups.com

Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Hello friends.

I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea what 
I look like.

However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when we 
were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the results I 
obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s description was:

The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair is 
short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
clean-shaven.

He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small 
embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.

The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central element 
of the image. There is no additional information provided about the man, such 
as his name or what he is doing in the pub.

What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a sighted 
person looking in a mirror.

The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I had 
never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are expressions 
learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of sighted people. 
 I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s description of my 
expression was accurate then why would I look serious?

Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do?

Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.

Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested in 
your opinions.

Malcolm Parfitt

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Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

2023-11-13 Thread Malcolm Parfitt

Well I’m interested to learn that I am not the only one here that roasts his own coffee! I have done so for around 20 years.Welcome to the club.Here in the UK I buy from hasbean.Malcolm ParfittOn 13 Nov 2023, at 22:05, Cristobal Munoz wrote:Good one… On Nov 13, 2023, at 1:49 PM, Robert Doc Wright wrote:

What is wrong with the truth?

- Original Message -
From:
Cristóbal Muñoz
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09
PM
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may
teach us?

This topic reminds me of these two
articles.
Blind
Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and
shame
The role of
visual experience in the production of emotional facial expressions by blind
people:
Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The
other day, I used it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I
wanted to roast. I held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the
picture with my iPhone in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description
of the type of bean, region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch
of other info I wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool…

At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes
also wrote that the bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH!
What’s up with the editorializing?
Cristóbal
-Original Message-From:
viphone@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of
Sieghard WeitzelSent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PMTo:
viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach
us?
What did your friend say about your _expression_? I assume
it described you as "serious" because you weren't smiling.
-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com

On Behalf Of Malcolm Parfitt
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach
us?
Hello friends.
I appreciate that none of you know me personally and
like me have no idea what I look like.
However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture
of me recently when we were in what we call in the UK a pub. I was very
interested in the results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the
photo. It’s description was:
The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a
sturdy build. His hair is short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and
he has a full head of hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a
somewhat stern or serious _expression_ on his face. His nose is prominent and he
has full lips. He is clean-shaven.
He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar.
The shirt has a small embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads
"Samuel Smith" in a cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of
a comfortable fit.
The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making
him the central element of the image. There is no additional information
provided about the man, such as his name or what he is doing in the
pub.
What interested me most is that this is the closest we
can get to a sighted person looking in a mirror.
The other thing that struck me was the description of my
_expression_. I had never really thought about expressions but I suddenly
thought are expressions learned or natural. How far do our expressions
mirror those of sighted people. I didn’t feel serious at the time, and
if Be My AI’s description of my _expression_ was accurate then why would I look
serious?
Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted
people’s do?
Not really an Apple question admittedly but an
interesting subject.
Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would
be most interested in your opinions.
Malcolm Parfitt
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of the V iPhone list.
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at:
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Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

2023-11-13 Thread Cristobal Munoz

Good one… On Nov 13, 2023, at 1:49 PM, Robert Doc Wright wrote:

What is wrong with the truth?

- Original Message -
From:
Cristóbal Muñoz
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09
PM
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may
teach us?

Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

2023-11-13 Thread Robert Doc Wright

What is wrong with the truth?
- Original Message -
From: Cristóbal Muñoz
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

This topic reminds me of these two articles.

Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame

The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial
expressions by blind people:

Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used
it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I
held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone
in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean,
region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I
wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool…

At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the
bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the
editorializing?

Cristóbal

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you
as "serious" because you weren't smiling.

-Original Message-

From: viphone@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of
Malcolm Parfitt

Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM

To: viphone@googlegroups.com

Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Hello friends.

I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea
what I look like.

However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when
we were in what we call in the UK a pub. I was very interested in the
results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo. It’s
description was:

The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair
is short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head
of hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or
serious expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips.
He is clean-shaven.

He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a
small embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in
a cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable
fit.

The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central
element of the image. There is no additional information provided about the
man, such as his name or what he is doing in the pub.

What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a
sighted person looking in a mirror.

The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression. I
had never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are
expressions learned or natural. How far do our expressions mirror those of
sighted people. I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s
description of my expression was accurate then why would I look serious?

Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do?

Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.

Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested
in your opinions.

Malcolm Parfitt

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RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

2023-11-13 Thread Cristóbal Muñoz

This topic reminds me of these two articles.

Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 

 

The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial expressions 
by blind people:  

Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used it 
to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I held 
the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone in my 
right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, region 
where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I wouldn’t 
gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool… 

At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the bag 
was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
editorializing? 

 

Cristóbal

 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

 

What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you as 
"serious" because you weren't smiling.

 

 

-Original Message-

From:   viphone@googlegroups.com < 
 viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of 
Malcolm Parfitt

Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM

To:   viphone@googlegroups.com

Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

 

Hello friends.

 

I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea what 
I look like.

 

However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when we 
were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the results I 
obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s description was:

 

The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair is 
short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
clean-shaven.

 

He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small 
embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.

 

The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central element 
of the image. There is no additional information provided about the man, such 
as his name or what he is doing in the pub.

 

 

What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a sighted 
person looking in a mirror.

 

The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I had 
never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are expressions 
learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of sighted people. 
 I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s description of my 
expression was accurate then why would I look serious?

 

Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do?

 

Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.

 

Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested in 
your opinions.

Malcolm Parfitt

 

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The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.

 

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RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

2023-11-13 Thread Sieghard Weitzel

What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you as 
"serious" because you weren't smiling.

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Malcolm 
Parfitt
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Hello friends.

I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea what 
I look like.

However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when we 
were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the results I 
obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s description was:

The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair is 
short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
clean-shaven.

He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small 
embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.

The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central element 
of the image. There is no additional information provided about the man, such 
as his name or what he is doing in the pub.

What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a sighted 
person looking in a mirror.

The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I had 
never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are expressions 
learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of sighted people. 
 I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s description of my 
expression was accurate then why would I look serious?

Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do?

Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.

Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested in 
your opinions.
Malcolm Parfitt

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RE: Accessible RSS readers

2023-11-13 Thread Christopher Chaltain

Thanks for the pointers. I knew there would be a ton of RSS readers in the App 
Store and I knew some of them would be accessible. I just figured I’d ask for 
some advice before just using trial and error to find the accessible options. 
I’ll take a look at the suggestions I got, and over time I’ll probably branch 
out even further until I settle on the perfect RSS reader for IOS.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 2:48 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Accessible RSS readers

The iOS App Store is full of great, accessible RSS readers. I can personally 
recommend two apps:

1. News Explorer:
https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/news-explorer/id1032668306

2. Lire:
https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/lire-rss-reader/id1531976425


I use News Explorer because it syncs the articles in your feeds to iCloud, so 
even if you reset your device etc. you can still access older articles that 
have been removed from the feed. It has an excellent Mac app as well.

But Lire is a great alternative with excellent full text caching, so you can 
read articles while you're offline.

If you don't want a paid app, honestly just download a bunch of RSS readers and 
try them out, it's very accessible territory.

Thanks,

Grant Hardy


On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:04 AM Christopher Chaltain 
mailto:chalt...@outlook.com>> wrote:
I used to use RSS readers, but I got out of the habit when Google dropped it’s 
RSS reader. Now that I see I can use RSS to read lists on Mastodon, I’m 
wondering where we are with accessible RSS readers on the iPhone. Anyone have 
any suggestions? Free would be preferable, since my usage will be pretty light, 
but paying for an app is not a show stopper.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

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RE: Silencing caller identification

2023-11-13 Thread Carolyn Arnold

Hay, Bill? She could go into her contact and change the name on it to another 
name - not to encourage infidelity, but to solve a phone issue, you think? 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Bill Gallik
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 11:52 AM
To: viPhone  
Subject: Re: Silencing caller identification

Thanks for your attempted answer Arnold, but I did exactly the same thing and 
found that setting “Announce Caller ID” to “Never” did not achieve the desired 
results.

- Bill from Bayfield County, Wisconsin
- “More business is lost every year through”
- “neglect than through any other cause.”
- Rose Kennedy

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Re: Silencing caller identification

2023-11-13 Thread Bill Gallik

Thanks for your attempted answer Arnold, but I did exactly the same thing and 
found that setting “Announce Caller ID” to “Never” did not achieve the desired 
results.


- Bill from Bayfield County, Wisconsin
- “More business is lost every year through”
- “neglect than through any other cause.”
- Rose Kennedy

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Re: Silencing caller identification

2023-11-13 Thread Bill Gallik

Alban asks, "but why would anyone want to do that?”

The friend is involved in an extra-marital affair and she doesn’t want her 
husband to identify her lover when that man sends her e-mail.

By the way, her lover is NOT me.  I don’t claim to be a Saint, but she doesn’t 
have that sort of feeling for yours truly.


- Bill from Northern Wisconsin
- “I think and think for months and years.”
- “Ninety-nine times, the conclusion is false.”
- “The hundredth time I am right.”
 Albert Einstein

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Re: slow response to double tapping in latest IOS version

2023-11-13 Thread Bill Gallik

The phenomenon described in this thread is quite frustrating.  It has 
manifested from the very first release of iOS 17.0 and has obviously escaped 
the attention of Apple development.  A “work around” is to gesture one step 
beyond the control item desired, then back to that item and double tap.  I find 
this very annoying, but at least I’m not deleting mail and messages I want to 
keep.

- Bill from Northern Wisconsin
- “I think and think for months and years.”
- “Ninety-nine times, the conclusion is false.”
- “The hundredth time I am right.”
 Albert Einstein

> On Nov 12, 2023, at 6:41 AM, CJ & AA MAY  wrote:
> 
> I’ll try this; not sure which one I have already.
> Alison
>  

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Re: UPDATE: After Only One Day, Mark Cancels Disney Plus Subscription

2023-11-13 Thread Dave Grossoehme

This is due to the merger between the 2 companies at this time. From 
what I've read in the news, it will be around the first of next year 
before they have completely merged togather.  You might wish to speak 
with disney on your membership.


Dave


On 11/10/2023 10:22 PM, M. Taylor wrote:

Hello Everyone,

Okay, my faith in the universe has been restored!

After some much needed sleep and a very pleasant and productive day, I decided 
to attempt to resolve the Hulu issue, yet again.

Bottom line:  I resolved the problem and have restored my Hulu / Disney Duo 
Premium subscription at a rate of $19.95 per month.

The solution?  Apparently, the Disney Plus servers and the Hulu account servers 
are not exactly in sync.  In short, this means that although the Disney Plus 
servers registered my new account, said account was only partially populated on 
the Hulu account servers which, as it turns out, are still being updated with 
that of Disney Plus.  As a result of this account population glitch, the Hulu 
servers, at least those accessed by the Apple TV app, were, effectively, 
returning two diametrically opposed results to my login attempts; (1) the 
account is valid and (2) the account is not valid.  As expected, this caused 
the app to freeze.

Solution?

(1):  from the Disney Plus website, force all device log-ins to be rejected.

(2):  Not just delete the Hulu apps from Apple TV but clear the app cache, 
first, before deleting the apps from Apple TV.

(3):  From the Disney Plus website, change account email address, preferably to 
an email with a different domain than that of the original email address.

I hope you found this helpful and if not, then at least entertaining (smile).

Mark

-Original Message-
From: M. Taylor  On Behalf Of M. Taylor
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2023 10:43 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: After Only One Day, Mark Cancels Disney Plus Subscription

Hello Everyone,

I am posting this to the list because I want you to know that, if you encounter 
the same problem, you are not alone.

1.
I purchased a Disney Plus and Hulu Premium monthly subscription via the Disney 
Plus website.  I did this because this particular new pricing bundle is not 
available on the Hulu website.

2.
Signed into Disney Plus and Hulu websites, along with iOS app and iPad app 
without any problems.

3.
Signed into Disney Plus app on Apple TV on both TV OS 16 and TV OS 17 without 
any problems.

4.
Could not sign into Hulu app on Apple TV.  Trust me when I tell you that this 
is not a VoiceOver problem.
When attempting to sign into Hulu app via a Disney Plus Hulu bundle 
subscription, billed by Disney, with a new account that is not being upgraded 
from a basic Hulu subscription, the Hulu app simply freezes.
I spent more time on trying to resolve this issue than I ever care to admit.

5.
When a solution to this problem was not offered up by Hulu / Disney, I got so 
disgusted that I cancelled my subscription, today, and deleted my third-party 
Disney Plus account.

This is the first time in my Apple life that I have been so disgusted with an 
app experience that I cancelled and deleted within 24 hours of purchasing a 
subscription.

6.
There are several things I can do to get the Hulu app working on Apple TV but, 
to my mind, today, at least, I just can't be bothered as, for a premium 
experience, I would have to pay more money for a bundle feature that I will 
never use and pay for it, via the Hulu billing system.

No Doubt that Disney will be releasing a new Hulu / Disney app combo that will 
resolve this but, as for me, my first experience with Hulu via Apple TV was so 
very disappointing that I have lost the desire to even use Hulu.

Now I can subscribe to Hulu via iTunes but, again, not today.

Mark


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Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

2023-11-13 Thread Diane Giannetti

I never really did think about that, but that is an interesting question for 
sure that is quite interesting and I think it’s amazing how this really can 
work now it gives really good descriptions and I think that’s pretty cool
Sent from Diane's awesome iPhone!

> On Nov 12, 2023, at 9:39 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
> 
> This description is a great example of  what really disturbs me about these 
> AI descriptions of images.
> "His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
> expression on his face."
> 
> I'm not even mentioning the "appears to be of a comfortable fit " about the 
> shirt.
> Chat GPT or Open AI or whatever are comparing the picture to images of 
> thousands of other images it has in its data base and making a "judgement" 
> based on that comparison.
> A machine, based on this comparison, is telling you have a stern or serious 
> expression.   That's it. It in no way resembles a sighted person looking in a 
> mirror.
> I wish with all my heart we could get Be My Eyes to ban these subjective 
> so-called judgements.
> 
> John Riehl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Brandon Olivares
> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 9:29 PM
> To: VIPhone 
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> That is really cool. Is there any way for me to get access to Be My AI or is 
> it closed to beta users still? I’ve been wanting to try it.
> 
>> On Nov 12, 2023, at 7:52 PM, Malcolm Parfitt  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello friends.
>> 
>> I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea 
>> what I look like.
>> 
>> However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when 
>> we were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the 
>> results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s 
>> description was:
>> 
>> The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair is 
>> short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
>> hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
>> expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
>> clean-shaven.
>> 
>> He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small 
>> embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
>> cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.
>> 
>> The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central 
>> element of the image. There is no additional information provided about the 
>> man, such as his name or what he is doing in the pub.
>> 
>> 
>> What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a sighted 
>> person looking in a mirror.
>> 
>> The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I had 
>> never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are 
>> expressions learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of 
>> sighted people.  I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s 
>> description of my expression was accurate then why would I look serious?
>> 
>> Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do?
>> 
>> Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.
>> 
>> Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested 
>> in your opinions.
>> Malcolm Parfitt
>> 
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> 
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Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

2023-11-13 Thread Diane Giannetti

I never really did give it any thought about that. Meaning the expressions. 
It’s just something I never thought of. But quite interesting for sure. 
However, I think it’s pretty cool with the descriptions. Really really neat. I 
haven’t played too much with it, but just reading you guys and what you’re 
saying I’m going to have to pay more attention to it. Expressions quite 
interesting, never thought about that, or gave it even enough of a thought. 
Lol. Now I do. 
Sent from Diane's awesome iPhone!

> On Nov 12, 2023, at 9:56 PM, Christopher Chaltain  
> wrote:
> 
> Be My AI is a tab in the Be My Eyes app. It's free and no longer in beta.
> 
> --
> Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
> Chaltain at Outlook, USA
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Brandon Olivares
> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 8:29 PM
> To: VIPhone 
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> That is really cool. Is there any way for me to get access to Be My AI or is 
> it closed to beta users still? I've been wanting to try it.
> 
>> On Nov 12, 2023, at 7:52 PM, Malcolm Parfitt  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello friends.
>> 
>> I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea 
>> what I look like.
>> 
>> However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when 
>> we were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the 
>> results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It's 
>> description was:
>> 
>> The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair is 
>> short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
>> hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
>> expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
>> clean-shaven.
>> 
>> He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small 
>> embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
>> cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.
>> 
>> The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central 
>> element of the image. There is no additional information provided about the 
>> man, such as his name or what he is doing in the pub.
>> 
>> 
>> What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a sighted 
>> person looking in a mirror.
>> 
>> The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I had 
>> never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are 
>> expressions learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of 
>> sighted people.  I didn't feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI's 
>> description of my expression was accurate then why would I look serious?
>> 
>> Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people's do?
>> 
>> Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.
>> 
>> Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested 
>> in your opinions.
>> Malcolm Parfitt
>> 
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Re: Word count on the Mac

2023-11-13 Thread John Panarese

Not a problem. I’m glad it helped.


> On Nov 12, 2023, at 10:28 PM, Judy Wilkinson  wrote:
> 
> John,
> Your instructions are precise, clear and accurate as always.
> Thank you so much
> Judy Wilkinson 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 11, 2023, at 10:14 AM, John Panarese  wrote:
>> 
>> Instead of interacting with the document layout area and the body of 
>> the text, use VO-shift-up arrow until you cannot stop interacting with 
>> anything. At that point. Use VO-left arrow to locate the popup menu with the 
>> word count. You can then VO-space on it to find additional information about 
>> the word count and character count, etc.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2023, at 11:50 PM, Judy Wilkinson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I’m afraid I have no idea how to do what you are suggesting how do I get to 
>>> that pop-up box?
>>> Judy Wilkinson
>>> 
>>> 
 On Nov 10, 2023, at 9:23 AM, John Panarese  wrote:
 
   Have you tried totally uninteracting with the text and using VO-left or 
 right arrow. There is a popup menu with the word count that, if activated, 
 will show you additional text info.
 
 
> On Nov 10, 2023, at 11:35 AM, Judy Wilkinson  
> wrote:
> 
> I am trying to do a word count in pages on the Mac.
> I know how to reveal the word count command shift W. But I can’t see the 
> word count. I can’t get it to speak.
> My assistant tells me it’s right above my text, but I can’t seem to get 
> there.
> Judy Wilkinson
> 
> 
>> On Nov 9, 2023, at 11:00 AM, 'Karen Poulakos' via VIPhone 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Is there an easy  way to set a reminder for every Monday, Wednesday, and
>> Friday?
>> I am using the latest iPhone SE, with IOS 16.6.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Karen P  
>> 
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Re: Accessible RSS readers

2023-11-13 Thread Rajiv Shah

I am not sure I am understanding your question.  The language depends on on the content of the feed and the system language on the device Sent from my iPhoneOn Nov 12, 2023, at 7:12 PM, alban hoxha  wrote:






on which language can used rss?





From: viphone@googlegroups.com  on behalf of Rajiv Shah 
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 11:56:35 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: Accessible RSS readers
 



Hi,


My RSS reader of choice is Inoreader. What I like about it most are two capabilities:
(1) It is platform-agnostic, thus works on both Android, IOS and the Web, and the feeds that you add on one platform are available on all of them.
(2) I like reading items in foreign languages. Inoreader has a built-in translation feature that for languages where my skills are below par.




Based on the above, SpeechCenteral would work. However, SpeechCentral is not platform-agnostic. I would also like to know about multi-lingual support?


Thank you.


Rajiv

From: "Ivan Icin" 
To: "VIPhone" 
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:19:51 PM
Subject: Re: Accessible RSS readers



My app Speech Central has capability to read RSS feeds. 
It can also treat any site as an RSS feed even if it doesn’t provide the feed itself, you should just provide the link of the home page (or any other page that contains headline links). 


It is completely free when used with VoiceOver on, so I think it is fair to post the link: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/speech-central-voice-reader/id1127349155


On Sunday, November 12, 2023 at 9:47:57 PM UTC+1 Grant Hardy wrote:


The iOS App Store is full of great, accessible RSS readers. I can personally recommend two apps:


1. News Explorer: 
https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/news-explorer/id1032668306


2. Lire: 
https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/lire-rss-reader/id1531976425




I use News Explorer because it syncs the articles in your feeds to iCloud, so even if you reset your device etc. you can still access older articles that have been removed from the feed. It has an excellent Mac app as well.


But Lire is a great alternative with excellent full text caching, so you can read articles while you're offline.


If you don't want a paid app, honestly just download a bunch of RSS readers and try them out, it's very accessible territory.


Thanks,


Grant Hardy








On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:04 AM Christopher Chaltain  wrote:








I used to use RSS readers, but I got out of the habit when Google dropped it’s RSS reader. Now that I see I can use RSS to read lists on Mastodon, I’m wondering where we are with accessible
 RSS readers on the iPhone. Anyone have any suggestions? Free would be preferable, since my usage will be pretty light, but paying for an app is not a show stopper.
 
--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA
 









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