Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Mary Lou Carey]

I'm sure a lot of it has to do with more than is visible to us. I will 
message you privately so we can discuss options further.


MARY LOU CAREY
BackUP Telecom Consulting
Office: 615-791-9969
Cell: 615-796-

On 2021-07-09 08:19 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

*nods*

I have been talking to people at Inteliquent and Peerless about their
PSTN Connect services. My recent conversations reflect your
observations.

I didn't bother with Wide Voice because their coverage seemed to be
minuscule (didn't even have coverage in Chicago). If you think their
website's stated coverage isn't accurate, I'd appreciate an
introduction.

Do you think the vast difference in approaches (and thus requirements)
taken by Inteliquent vs. Peerless or Wide Voice are simply business
interest vs. something fundamental that I'm missing?

I'm trying to be somewhat vague in my statements and questions, erring
on the side of caution regarding whatever NDAs I may have signed and
speaking in a public venue.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com

-

From: "Mary Lou Carey" 
To: "Mike Hammett" 
Cc: "VoiceOps" 
Sent: Thursday, July 8, 2021 2:12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

The service you are looking for is called PSTN Connection service, but

you need to have either an FCC IPES certification (Direct Access to
Numbering Resources) or a CLEC license. I have contacts at
Inteliquent,
Peerless, and Wide Voice if you need them. PSTN connection service is
turned up on a per LATA basis so you don't have to limit yourself to
one
carrier for the entire country unless you want to. Its my
understanding
Wide Voice covers more areas for IPES providers than they do for CLEC.

Peerless and Wide Voice will work with anyone.Inteliquent used to
be
willing to work with anyone but in the last year they've been less
interested in serving IPES companies that don't have a significant
amount of traffic to start out with. That could have changed since
they
were just bought out, but that's been my experience while helping
carriers turn up their networks over the last year.

MARY LOU CAREY
BackUP Telecom Consulting
Office: 615-791-9969
Cell: 615-796-

On 2021-07-07 08:12 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

At the suggestion of this mailing list, I started pursuing the
IVP/IPES route instead of trying to do my expansions via CLEC
authority.

I've had conversations with a few companies to enable the IPES
services, Verizon, Inteliquent, Intrado (West), and Peerless. I
haven't talked to Wide Voice because their stated coverage is
inadequate. I haven't talked to Level 3 because they never answered
me.

* One of the conversations went nowhere because while they

knew what

I was talking about, they didn't think they had a product for that.
Their rates for adjacent services were actually reasonable.
* One had it productized, but had a 5 figure minimum monthly

commit.

The stated reason was that the LECs are a pain and they wanted to

make

sure they had a decent return before they committed resources.
* One had only part of the solution, still requiring me to

build out

the tandems myself for the ILEC interconnection.
* One had it productized and had no monthly minimum.

Okay, so four very different responses from four companies. The one
seems like the a slam dunk, but being a slam drunk in the face of

such

difficulty, I become skeptical. We're coming from a TDM, voice CLEC
background, not a retail SIP provider background. Is there something
I'm underestimating in this process?

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com

-

From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "VoiceOps" 
Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 2:42:37 PM
Subject: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely left
out company names.

One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in
getting us the inbound long distance calls, not the local ones.

Well,

they would, but the terms were vastly different.

Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local tandem,
what's the point in using a third party to connect to long distance?

Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different because
the access tandem is simpler, whereas the local tandem could
potentially involve connections to a bunch of other switches, once
volume dictated I needed direct connections...  and they don't want

to

deal with that?

Are there third parties that don't have vastly different terms for
local tandem services?

Also, is it likely that I just don't understand what's going on? I
went circles with the sales rep to make sure I understood what he

was

saying, but I could be wrong.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
htt

Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Mike Hammett]

*nods* 


I have been talking to people at Inteliquent and Peerless about their PSTN 
Connect services. My recent conversations reflect your observations. 


I didn't bother with Wide Voice because their coverage seemed to be minuscule 
(didn't even have coverage in Chicago). If you think their website's stated 
coverage isn't accurate, I'd appreciate an introduction. 




Do you think the vast difference in approaches (and thus requirements) taken by 
Inteliquent vs. Peerless or Wide Voice are simply business interest vs. 
something fundamental that I'm missing? 






I'm trying to be somewhat vague in my statements and questions, erring on the 
side of caution regarding whatever NDAs I may have signed and speaking in a 
public venue. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



- Original Message -

From: "Mary Lou Carey"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "VoiceOps"  
Sent: Thursday, July 8, 2021 2:12:04 PM 
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems 

The service you are looking for is called PSTN Connection service, but 
you need to have either an FCC IPES certification (Direct Access to 
Numbering Resources) or a CLEC license. I have contacts at Inteliquent, 
Peerless, and Wide Voice if you need them. PSTN connection service is 
turned up on a per LATA basis so you don't have to limit yourself to one 
carrier for the entire country unless you want to. Its my understanding 
Wide Voice covers more areas for IPES providers than they do for CLEC. 

Peerless and Wide Voice will work with anyone.Inteliquent used to be 
willing to work with anyone but in the last year they've been less 
interested in serving IPES companies that don't have a significant 
amount of traffic to start out with. That could have changed since they 
were just bought out, but that's been my experience while helping 
carriers turn up their networks over the last year. 

MARY LOU CAREY 
BackUP Telecom Consulting 
Office: 615-791-9969 
Cell: 615-796- 

On 2021-07-07 08:12 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> At the suggestion of this mailing list, I started pursuing the 
> IVP/IPES route instead of trying to do my expansions via CLEC 
> authority. 
> 
> I've had conversations with a few companies to enable the IPES 
> services, Verizon, Inteliquent, Intrado (West), and Peerless. I 
> haven't talked to Wide Voice because their stated coverage is 
> inadequate. I haven't talked to Level 3 because they never answered 
> me. 
> 
> * One of the conversations went nowhere because while they knew what 
> I was talking about, they didn't think they had a product for that. 
> Their rates for adjacent services were actually reasonable. 
> * One had it productized, but had a 5 figure minimum monthly commit. 
> The stated reason was that the LECs are a pain and they wanted to make 
> sure they had a decent return before they committed resources. 
> * One had only part of the solution, still requiring me to build out 
> the tandems myself for the ILEC interconnection. 
> * One had it productized and had no monthly minimum. 
> 
> Okay, so four very different responses from four companies. The one 
> seems like the a slam dunk, but being a slam drunk in the face of such 
> difficulty, I become skeptical. We're coming from a TDM, voice CLEC 
> background, not a retail SIP provider background. Is there something 
> I'm underestimating in this process? 
> 
> - 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> http://www.ics-il.com 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> http://www.midwest-ix.com 
> 
> - 
> 
> From: "Mike Hammett"  
> To: "VoiceOps"  
> Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 2:42:37 PM 
> Subject: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems 
> 
> I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely left 
> out company names. 
> 
> One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in 
> getting us the inbound long distance calls, not the local ones. Well, 
> they would, but the terms were vastly different. 
> 
> Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local tandem, 
> what's the point in using a third party to connect to long distance? 
> 
> Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different because 
> the access tandem is simpler, whereas the local tandem could 
> potentially involve connections to a bunch of other switches, once 
> volume dictated I needed direct connections... and they don't want to 
> deal with that? 
> 
> Are there third parties that don't have vastly different terms for 
> local tandem services? 
> 
> Also, is it likely that I just don't understand what's going on? I 
> went circles wi

Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Mary Lou Carey]

The service you are looking for is called PSTN Connection service, but 
you need to have either an FCC IPES certification (Direct Access to 
Numbering Resources) or a CLEC license. I have contacts at Inteliquent, 
Peerless, and Wide Voice if you need them. PSTN connection service is 
turned up on a per LATA basis so you don't have to limit yourself to one 
carrier for the entire country unless you want to. Its my understanding 
Wide Voice covers more areas for IPES providers than they do for CLEC.


Peerless and Wide Voice will work with anyone.Inteliquent used to be 
willing to work with anyone but in the last year they've been less 
interested in serving IPES companies that don't have a significant 
amount of traffic to start out with. That could have changed since they 
were just bought out, but that's been my experience while helping 
carriers turn up their networks over the last year.


MARY LOU CAREY
BackUP Telecom Consulting
Office: 615-791-9969
Cell: 615-796-

On 2021-07-07 08:12 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

At the suggestion of this mailing list, I started pursuing the
IVP/IPES route instead of trying to do my expansions via CLEC
authority.

I've had conversations with a few companies to enable the IPES
services, Verizon, Inteliquent, Intrado (West), and Peerless. I
haven't talked to Wide Voice because their stated coverage is
inadequate. I haven't talked to Level 3 because they never answered
me.

* One of the conversations went nowhere because while they knew what
I was talking about, they didn't think they had a product for that.
Their rates for adjacent services were actually reasonable.
* One had it productized, but had a 5 figure minimum monthly commit.
The stated reason was that the LECs are a pain and they wanted to make
sure they had a decent return before they committed resources.
* One had only part of the solution, still requiring me to build out
the tandems myself for the ILEC interconnection.
* One had it productized and had no monthly minimum.

Okay, so four very different responses from four companies. The one
seems like the a slam dunk, but being a slam drunk in the face of such
difficulty, I become skeptical. We're coming from a TDM, voice CLEC
background, not a retail SIP provider background. Is there something
I'm underestimating in this process?

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com

-

From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "VoiceOps" 
Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 2:42:37 PM
Subject: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely left
out company names.

One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in
getting us the inbound long distance calls, not the local ones. Well,
they would, but the terms were vastly different.

Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local tandem,
what's the point in using a third party to connect to long distance?

Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different because
the access tandem is simpler, whereas the local tandem could
potentially involve connections to a bunch of other switches, once
volume dictated I needed direct connections...  and they don't want to
deal with that?

Are there third parties that don't have vastly different terms for
local tandem services?

Also, is it likely that I just don't understand what's going on? I
went circles with the sales rep to make sure I understood what he was
saying, but I could be wrong.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com

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VoiceOps mailing list
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https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
___
VoiceOps mailing list
VoiceOps@voiceops.org
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops

___
VoiceOps mailing list
VoiceOps@voiceops.org
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops

Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Mike Hammett]

At the suggestion of this mailing list, I started pursuing the IVP/IPES route 
instead of trying to do my expansions via CLEC authority. 


I've had conversations with a few companies to enable the IPES services, 
Verizon, Inteliquent, Intrado (West), and Peerless. I haven't talked to Wide 
Voice because their stated coverage is inadequate. I haven't talked to Level 3 
because they never answered me. 




* One of the conversations went nowhere because while they knew what I was 
talking about, they didn't think they had a product for that. Their rates for 
adjacent services were actually reasonable. 
* One had it productized, but had a 5 figure minimum monthly commit. The 
stated reason was that the LECs are a pain and they wanted to make sure they 
had a decent return before they committed resources. 
* One had only part of the solution, still requiring me to build out the 
tandems myself for the ILEC interconnection. 
* One had it productized and had no monthly minimum. 


Okay, so four very different responses from four companies. The one seems like 
the a slam dunk, but being a slam drunk in the face of such difficulty, I 
become skeptical. We're coming from a TDM, voice CLEC background, not a retail 
SIP provider background. Is there something I'm underestimating in this 
process? 









- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



- Original Message -

From: "Mike Hammett"  
To: "VoiceOps"  
Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 2:42:37 PM 
Subject: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems 


I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely left out company 
names. 


One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in getting us the 
inbound long distance calls, not the local ones. Well, they would, but the 
terms were vastly different. 


Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local tandem, what's the 
point in using a third party to connect to long distance? 


Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different because the access 
tandem is simpler, whereas the local tandem could potentially involve 
connections to a bunch of other switches, once volume dictated I needed direct 
connections... and they don't want to deal with that? 


Are there third parties that don't have vastly different terms for local tandem 
services? 


Also, is it likely that I just don't understand what's going on? I went circles 
with the sales rep to make sure I understood what he was saying, but I could be 
wrong. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



___ 
VoiceOps mailing list 
VoiceOps@voiceops.org 
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops 

___
VoiceOps mailing list
VoiceOps@voiceops.org
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops

Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Mary Lou Carey]

Very true...unless CLECs still order UNE loops or resale services from 
the ILEC there's not a whole lot of incentive to become a CLEC!



MARY LOU CAREY
BackUP Telecom Consulting
Office: 615-791-9969
Cell: 615-796-

On 2021-02-10 01:48 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:

That does indeed sound infinitely more economical and bureaucratically
attainable. Why would anyone who provides primarily or exclusively IP
telecom services want to be a CLEC anymore, unless specialising in
regional wholesale PSTN connectivity, needing rights-of-way to build
own network, or something of that ilk?

-- Alex

On 2/10/21 2:26 PM, Mary Lou Carey wrote:
Verizon will allow PSTN Connection Providers to put both IPES and CLEC 
NXXs on their existing trunk groups. AT and Lumen only allow PSTN 
Connection Providers to put IPES NXXs on their existing trunks. You 
are correct that for CLECs, AT and Lumen require the PSTN Connection 
Providers to build separate trunk groups in each LATA the CLEC 
operates in.


That's why it's becoming more beneficial to become an IPES provider. 
The other benefit is that CLECs have to be certified in every state 
and order an OCN for each state. IPES providers get certified for the 
entire country at one time and only have one OCN to identify their 
NXXs across the entire country. When IPES providers file NRUF reports, 
they only have to submit 1 NRUF report for their OCN vs CLECs who have 
to submit one NRUF report for every OCN they have.


Becoming an IPES provider also eliminates the need for SS7 links and 
SS7 routes! You usually pay a per-port charge for the connection to 
the PSTN Connection provider and a per-minute charge fee for all the 
traffic (as opposed to getting local traffic for free), but you don't 
have the cost of the SS7 network or SS7 routes.


MARY LOU CAREY
BackUP Telecom Consulting
Office: 615-791-9969
Cell: 615-796-

On 2021-02-10 01:13 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:

Mary Lou,

To make sure I understand: the PSTN connection providers have to 
build

separate tandem trunk groups in each respective LATA for CLEC NXXs vs
IPES NXXs?

—
Sent from mobile, with due apologies for brevity and errors.

On Feb 10, 2021, at 2:10 PM, Mary Lou Carey 
 wrote:


They still do itI just helped a client connect with them 
recently. All the PSTN Connection providers prefer that CLECs get 
certified as IPES providers though because AT and Lumen (fka 
CenturyLink) will only allow the PSTN connection providers to add 
IPES NXXs to their existing trunks. AT and Lumen make the PSTN 
connection providers install separate trunk groups for CLEC NXXs.


MARY LOU CAREY
BackUP Telecom Consulting
Office: 615-791-9969
Cell: 615-796-


On 2021-02-09 12:43 PM, Jared Geiger wrote:
Wide Voice used to run the PSTN connectivity (they may still do it, 
I

haven't investigated) for FreeConferenceCall.com and other similar
services. They probably had to change up the business model when
intercarrier compensation rates dried up.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 3:55 PM Mike Hammett 
wrote:
That's the first I've heard of Wide Voice. Their network looks
little sparse at the moment. I wonder if it's on-demand, as in 
once

you inquire about a LATA, they build it out.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com
-
From: "Mary Lou Carey" 
To: "Mike Hammett" 
Cc: "VoiceOps" 
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 5:33:19 PM
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems
You can get a PSTN Connection Service from Peerless or Wide Voice.
Inteliquent used to offer that service but they have backed away
from it
recently.
To make it simple, you have to get certified as an Interconnected
VOIP
carrier and then set up SIP trunks with your PSTN Connection
provider.
You order a POI CLLI and LRN NXX for every LATA that you want to
enter
and point your traffic to the PSTN Connection provider's switch in
the
LERG. You still have all your own NXXs and LRNs, but you can get 
rid

of
your SS7 network because the PSTN Connection Service Provider
handles
that piece. You still do all your own porting and maintain all 
your

connections with 911, LD, VOIP providers. If you want more
information
on how it all works, just message me privately.
MARY LOU CAREY
BackUP Telecom Consulting
Office: 615-791-9969
Cell: 615-796-
On 2021-02-08 03:35 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Due to receiving several offlist e-mails about this point, I

wanted to

point out that I'm not looking to do SIP directly to an ILEC

tandem. I

assume there would be some abstraction layer happening by a third
party.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com
-
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "VoiceOps" 
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 9:24:57 AM
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems
I did want to circle back on this.
I a

Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Alex Balashov]

That does indeed sound infinitely more economical and bureaucratically 
attainable. Why would anyone who provides primarily or exclusively IP 
telecom services want to be a CLEC anymore, unless specialising in 
regional wholesale PSTN connectivity, needing rights-of-way to build own 
network, or something of that ilk?


-- Alex

On 2/10/21 2:26 PM, Mary Lou Carey wrote:
Verizon will allow PSTN Connection Providers to put both IPES and CLEC 
NXXs on their existing trunk groups. AT and Lumen only allow PSTN 
Connection Providers to put IPES NXXs on their existing trunks. You are 
correct that for CLECs, AT and Lumen require the PSTN Connection 
Providers to build separate trunk groups in each LATA the CLEC operates in.


That's why it's becoming more beneficial to become an IPES provider. The 
other benefit is that CLECs have to be certified in every state and 
order an OCN for each state. IPES providers get certified for the entire 
country at one time and only have one OCN to identify their NXXs across 
the entire country. When IPES providers file NRUF reports, they only 
have to submit 1 NRUF report for their OCN vs CLECs who have to submit 
one NRUF report for every OCN they have.


Becoming an IPES provider also eliminates the need for SS7 links and SS7 
routes! You usually pay a per-port charge for the connection to the PSTN 
Connection provider and a per-minute charge fee for all the traffic (as 
opposed to getting local traffic for free), but you don't have the cost 
of the SS7 network or SS7 routes.


MARY LOU CAREY
BackUP Telecom Consulting
Office: 615-791-9969
Cell: 615-796-

On 2021-02-10 01:13 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:

Mary Lou,

To make sure I understand: the PSTN connection providers have to build
separate tandem trunk groups in each respective LATA for CLEC NXXs vs
IPES NXXs?

—
Sent from mobile, with due apologies for brevity and errors.

On Feb 10, 2021, at 2:10 PM, Mary Lou Carey 
 wrote:


They still do itI just helped a client connect with them 
recently. All the PSTN Connection providers prefer that CLECs get 
certified as IPES providers though because AT and Lumen (fka 
CenturyLink) will only allow the PSTN connection providers to add 
IPES NXXs to their existing trunks. AT and Lumen make the PSTN 
connection providers install separate trunk groups for CLEC NXXs.


MARY LOU CAREY
BackUP Telecom Consulting
Office: 615-791-9969
Cell: 615-796-


On 2021-02-09 12:43 PM, Jared Geiger wrote:
Wide Voice used to run the PSTN connectivity (they may still do it, I
haven't investigated) for FreeConferenceCall.com and other similar
services. They probably had to change up the business model when
intercarrier compensation rates dried up.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 3:55 PM Mike Hammett 
wrote:
That's the first I've heard of Wide Voice. Their network looks
little sparse at the moment. I wonder if it's on-demand, as in once
you inquire about a LATA, they build it out.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com
-
From: "Mary Lou Carey" 
To: "Mike Hammett" 
Cc: "VoiceOps" 
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 5:33:19 PM
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems
You can get a PSTN Connection Service from Peerless or Wide Voice.
Inteliquent used to offer that service but they have backed away
from it
recently.
To make it simple, you have to get certified as an Interconnected
VOIP
carrier and then set up SIP trunks with your PSTN Connection
provider.
You order a POI CLLI and LRN NXX for every LATA that you want to
enter
and point your traffic to the PSTN Connection provider's switch in
the
LERG. You still have all your own NXXs and LRNs, but you can get rid
of
your SS7 network because the PSTN Connection Service Provider
handles
that piece. You still do all your own porting and maintain all your
connections with 911, LD, VOIP providers. If you want more
information
on how it all works, just message me privately.
MARY LOU CAREY
BackUP Telecom Consulting
Office: 615-791-9969
Cell: 615-796-
On 2021-02-08 03:35 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Due to receiving several offlist e-mails about this point, I

wanted to

point out that I'm not looking to do SIP directly to an ILEC

tandem. I

assume there would be some abstraction layer happening by a third
party.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com
-
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "VoiceOps" 
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 9:24:57 AM
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems
I did want to circle back on this.
I am currently a CLEC with traditional voice services in a single

LATA

on a single set of tandems. We have SS7, do our own porting, etc.
I understand that going interconnected VoIP (instead of CLEC) may

be

easier for my expansions.
So that I don't have to drag T1s all over 

Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Alex Balashov]

Mary Lou,

To make sure I understand: the PSTN connection providers have to build separate 
tandem trunk groups in each respective LATA for CLEC NXXs vs IPES NXXs?

—
Sent from mobile, with due apologies for brevity and errors.

> On Feb 10, 2021, at 2:10 PM, Mary Lou Carey  wrote:
> 
> They still do itI just helped a client connect with them recently. All 
> the PSTN Connection providers prefer that CLECs get certified as IPES 
> providers though because AT and Lumen (fka CenturyLink) will only allow the 
> PSTN connection providers to add IPES NXXs to their existing trunks. AT and 
> Lumen make the PSTN connection providers install separate trunk groups for 
> CLEC NXXs.
> 
> MARY LOU CAREY
> BackUP Telecom Consulting
> Office: 615-791-9969
> Cell: 615-796-
> 
>> On 2021-02-09 12:43 PM, Jared Geiger wrote:
>> Wide Voice used to run the PSTN connectivity (they may still do it, I
>> haven't investigated) for FreeConferenceCall.com and other similar
>> services. They probably had to change up the business model when
>> intercarrier compensation rates dried up.
>>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 3:55 PM Mike Hammett 
>>> wrote:
>>> That's the first I've heard of Wide Voice. Their network looks
>>> little sparse at the moment. I wonder if it's on-demand, as in once
>>> you inquire about a LATA, they build it out.
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>>> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>>> ---------
>>> From: "Mary Lou Carey" 
>>> To: "Mike Hammett" 
>>> Cc: "VoiceOps" 
>>> Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 5:33:19 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems
>>> You can get a PSTN Connection Service from Peerless or Wide Voice.
>>> Inteliquent used to offer that service but they have backed away
>>> from it
>>> recently.
>>> To make it simple, you have to get certified as an Interconnected
>>> VOIP
>>> carrier and then set up SIP trunks with your PSTN Connection
>>> provider.
>>> You order a POI CLLI and LRN NXX for every LATA that you want to
>>> enter
>>> and point your traffic to the PSTN Connection provider's switch in
>>> the
>>> LERG. You still have all your own NXXs and LRNs, but you can get rid
>>> of
>>> your SS7 network because the PSTN Connection Service Provider
>>> handles
>>> that piece. You still do all your own porting and maintain all your
>>> connections with 911, LD, VOIP providers. If you want more
>>> information
>>> on how it all works, just message me privately.
>>> MARY LOU CAREY
>>> BackUP Telecom Consulting
>>> Office: 615-791-9969
>>> Cell: 615-796-
>>> On 2021-02-08 03:35 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>>> Due to receiving several offlist e-mails about this point, I
>>> wanted to
>>>> point out that I'm not looking to do SIP directly to an ILEC
>>> tandem. I
>>>> assume there would be some abstraction layer happening by a third
>>>> party.
>>>> -
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>>>> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>>>> -
>>>> From: "Mike Hammett" 
>>>> To: "VoiceOps" 
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 9:24:57 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems
>>>> I did want to circle back on this.
>>>> I am currently a CLEC with traditional voice services in a single
>>> LATA
>>>> on a single set of tandems. We have SS7, do our own porting, etc.
>>>> I understand that going interconnected VoIP (instead of CLEC) may
>>> be
>>>> easier for my expansions.
>>>> So that I don't have to drag T1s all over the place, what options
>>> do I
>>>> have in front of me? To be clear, I am looking for specific
>>> providers
>>>> and products, even off-list solicitations.
>>>> I'm not afraid of T1s, they're just expensive. I got a quote for a
>>>> single T1 to the facility where the other tandem in our LATA is,
>>> and
>>>> it was far more expensive than just sending the calls out our
>>>> termination providers. If I need more than one T1 (one for each
>>>> tandem), then I'm really priced out of the

Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Mary Lou Carey]

They still do itI just helped a client connect with them recently. 
All the PSTN Connection providers prefer that CLECs get certified as 
IPES providers though because AT and Lumen (fka CenturyLink) will only 
allow the PSTN connection providers to add IPES NXXs to their existing 
trunks. AT and Lumen make the PSTN connection providers install 
separate trunk groups for CLEC NXXs.


MARY LOU CAREY
BackUP Telecom Consulting
Office: 615-791-9969
Cell: 615-796-

On 2021-02-09 12:43 PM, Jared Geiger wrote:

Wide Voice used to run the PSTN connectivity (they may still do it, I
haven't investigated) for FreeConferenceCall.com and other similar
services. They probably had to change up the business model when
intercarrier compensation rates dried up.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 3:55 PM Mike Hammett 
wrote:


That's the first I've heard of Wide Voice. Their network looks
little sparse at the moment. I wonder if it's on-demand, as in once
you inquire about a LATA, they build it out.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com

-

From: "Mary Lou Carey" 
To: "Mike Hammett" 
Cc: "VoiceOps" 
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 5:33:19 PM
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

You can get a PSTN Connection Service from Peerless or Wide Voice.
Inteliquent used to offer that service but they have backed away
from it
recently.

To make it simple, you have to get certified as an Interconnected
VOIP
carrier and then set up SIP trunks with your PSTN Connection
provider.
You order a POI CLLI and LRN NXX for every LATA that you want to
enter
and point your traffic to the PSTN Connection provider's switch in
the
LERG. You still have all your own NXXs and LRNs, but you can get rid
of
your SS7 network because the PSTN Connection Service Provider
handles
that piece. You still do all your own porting and maintain all your
connections with 911, LD, VOIP providers. If you want more
information
on how it all works, just message me privately.

MARY LOU CAREY
BackUP Telecom Consulting
Office: 615-791-9969
Cell: 615-796-

On 2021-02-08 03:35 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Due to receiving several offlist e-mails about this point, I

wanted to

point out that I'm not looking to do SIP directly to an ILEC

tandem. I

assume there would be some abstraction layer happening by a third
party.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com

-

From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "VoiceOps" 
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 9:24:57 AM
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

I did want to circle back on this.

I am currently a CLEC with traditional voice services in a single

LATA

on a single set of tandems. We have SS7, do our own porting, etc.
I understand that going interconnected VoIP (instead of CLEC) may

be

easier for my expansions.

So that I don't have to drag T1s all over the place, what options

do I

have in front of me? To be clear, I am looking for specific

providers

and products, even off-list solicitations.

I'm not afraid of T1s, they're just expensive. I got a quote for a
single T1 to the facility where the other tandem in our LATA is,

and

it was far more expensive than just sending the calls out our
termination providers. If I need more than one T1 (one for each
tandem), then I'm really priced out of the market. Obviously that
course of action wouldn't help me for my own number blocks.

I looked at straight DID\minute services, but as some of our past

(and

potential future) customers have several hundreds of DIDs compared

to

the amount of traffic they'd have, that gets a difficult to

operate

in.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com

-

From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "VoiceOps" 
Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 2:42:37 PM
Subject: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely

left

out company names.

One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in
getting us the inbound long distance calls, not the local ones.

Well,

they would, but the terms were vastly different.

Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local

tandem,

what's the point in using a third party to connect to long

distance?


Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different

because

the access tandem is simpler, whereas the local tandem could
potentially involve connections to a bunch of other switches, once
volume dictated I needed direct connections...  and they don't

want to

deal with that?

Are there third parties that don't have vastly different terms for
local tandem services?

Also, is it likely that I just don't understand what's going o

Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Jared Geiger]

Wide Voice used to run the PSTN connectivity (they may still do it, I
haven't investigated) for FreeConferenceCall.com and other similar
services. They probably had to change up the business model when
intercarrier compensation rates dried up.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 3:55 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> That's the first I've heard of Wide Voice. Their network looks little
> sparse at the moment. I wonder if it's on-demand, as in once you inquire
> about a LATA, they build it out.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
>
>
> --
> *From: *"Mary Lou Carey" 
> *To: *"Mike Hammett" 
> *Cc: *"VoiceOps" 
> *Sent: *Monday, February 8, 2021 5:33:19 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems
>
> You can get a PSTN Connection Service from Peerless or Wide Voice.
> Inteliquent used to offer that service but they have backed away from it
> recently.
>
> To make it simple, you have to get certified as an Interconnected VOIP
> carrier and then set up SIP trunks with your PSTN Connection provider.
> You order a POI CLLI and LRN NXX for every LATA that you want to enter
> and point your traffic to the PSTN Connection provider's switch in the
> LERG. You still have all your own NXXs and LRNs, but you can get rid of
> your SS7 network because the PSTN Connection Service Provider handles
> that piece. You still do all your own porting and maintain all your
> connections with 911, LD, VOIP providers. If you want more information
> on how it all works, just message me privately.
>
> MARY LOU CAREY
> BackUP Telecom Consulting
> Office: 615-791-9969
> Cell: 615-796-
>
> On 2021-02-08 03:35 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > Due to receiving several offlist e-mails about this point, I wanted to
> > point out that I'm not looking to do SIP directly to an ILEC tandem. I
> > assume there would be some abstraction layer happening by a third
> > party.
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > http://www.ics-il.com
> >
> > Midwest Internet Exchange
> > http://www.midwest-ix.com
> >
> > -
> >
> > From: "Mike Hammett" 
> > To: "VoiceOps" 
> > Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 9:24:57 AM
> > Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems
> >
> > I did want to circle back on this.
> >
> > I am currently a CLEC with traditional voice services in a single LATA
> > on a single set of tandems. We have SS7, do our own porting, etc.
> > I understand that going interconnected VoIP (instead of CLEC) may be
> > easier for my expansions.
> >
> > So that I don't have to drag T1s all over the place, what options do I
> > have in front of me? To be clear, I am looking for specific providers
> > and products, even off-list solicitations.
> >
> > I'm not afraid of T1s, they're just expensive. I got a quote for a
> > single T1 to the facility where the other tandem in our LATA is, and
> > it was far more expensive than just sending the calls out our
> > termination providers. If I need more than one T1 (one for each
> > tandem), then I'm really priced out of the market. Obviously that
> > course of action wouldn't help me for my own number blocks.
> >
> > I looked at straight DID\minute services, but as some of our past (and
> > potential future) customers have several hundreds of DIDs compared to
> > the amount of traffic they'd have, that gets a difficult to operate
> > in.
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > http://www.ics-il.com
> >
> > Midwest Internet Exchange
> > http://www.midwest-ix.com
> >
> > -
> >
> > From: "Mike Hammett" 
> > To: "VoiceOps" 
> > Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 2:42:37 PM
> > Subject: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems
> >
> > I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely left
> > out company names.
> >
> > One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in
> > getting us the inbound long distance calls, not the local ones. Well,
> > they would, but the terms were vastly different.
> >
> > Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local tandem,
> > what's the point in using a third party to connect to long distance?
> >
> > Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different because
> > the access ta

Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Mike Hammett]

That's the first I've heard of Wide Voice. Their network looks little sparse at 
the moment. I wonder if it's on-demand, as in once you inquire about a LATA, 
they build it out. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



- Original Message -

From: "Mary Lou Carey"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "VoiceOps"  
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 5:33:19 PM 
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems 

You can get a PSTN Connection Service from Peerless or Wide Voice. 
Inteliquent used to offer that service but they have backed away from it 
recently. 

To make it simple, you have to get certified as an Interconnected VOIP 
carrier and then set up SIP trunks with your PSTN Connection provider. 
You order a POI CLLI and LRN NXX for every LATA that you want to enter 
and point your traffic to the PSTN Connection provider's switch in the 
LERG. You still have all your own NXXs and LRNs, but you can get rid of 
your SS7 network because the PSTN Connection Service Provider handles 
that piece. You still do all your own porting and maintain all your 
connections with 911, LD, VOIP providers. If you want more information 
on how it all works, just message me privately. 

MARY LOU CAREY 
BackUP Telecom Consulting 
Office: 615-791-9969 
Cell: 615-796- 

On 2021-02-08 03:35 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> Due to receiving several offlist e-mails about this point, I wanted to 
> point out that I'm not looking to do SIP directly to an ILEC tandem. I 
> assume there would be some abstraction layer happening by a third 
> party. 
> 
> - 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> http://www.ics-il.com 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> http://www.midwest-ix.com 
> 
> - 
> 
> From: "Mike Hammett"  
> To: "VoiceOps"  
> Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 9:24:57 AM 
> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems 
> 
> I did want to circle back on this. 
> 
> I am currently a CLEC with traditional voice services in a single LATA 
> on a single set of tandems. We have SS7, do our own porting, etc. 
> I understand that going interconnected VoIP (instead of CLEC) may be 
> easier for my expansions. 
> 
> So that I don't have to drag T1s all over the place, what options do I 
> have in front of me? To be clear, I am looking for specific providers 
> and products, even off-list solicitations. 
> 
> I'm not afraid of T1s, they're just expensive. I got a quote for a 
> single T1 to the facility where the other tandem in our LATA is, and 
> it was far more expensive than just sending the calls out our 
> termination providers. If I need more than one T1 (one for each 
> tandem), then I'm really priced out of the market. Obviously that 
> course of action wouldn't help me for my own number blocks. 
> 
> I looked at straight DID\minute services, but as some of our past (and 
> potential future) customers have several hundreds of DIDs compared to 
> the amount of traffic they'd have, that gets a difficult to operate 
> in. 
> 
> - 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> http://www.ics-il.com 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> http://www.midwest-ix.com 
> 
> - 
> 
> From: "Mike Hammett"  
> To: "VoiceOps"  
> Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 2:42:37 PM 
> Subject: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems 
> 
> I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely left 
> out company names. 
> 
> One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in 
> getting us the inbound long distance calls, not the local ones. Well, 
> they would, but the terms were vastly different. 
> 
> Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local tandem, 
> what's the point in using a third party to connect to long distance? 
> 
> Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different because 
> the access tandem is simpler, whereas the local tandem could 
> potentially involve connections to a bunch of other switches, once 
> volume dictated I needed direct connections... and they don't want to 
> deal with that? 
> 
> Are there third parties that don't have vastly different terms for 
> local tandem services? 
> 
> Also, is it likely that I just don't understand what's going on? I 
> went circles with the sales rep to make sure I understood what he was 
> saying, but I could be wrong. 
> 
> - 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> http://www.ics-il.com 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> http://www.midwest-ix.com 
> 
> ___ 
> VoiceOps maili

Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Mary Lou Carey]

You can get a PSTN Connection Service from Peerless or Wide Voice. 
Inteliquent used to offer that service but they have backed away from it 
recently.


To make it simple, you have to get certified as an Interconnected VOIP 
carrier and then set up SIP trunks with your PSTN Connection provider. 
You order a POI CLLI and LRN NXX for every LATA that you want to enter 
and point your traffic to the PSTN Connection provider's switch in the 
LERG. You still have all your own NXXs and LRNs, but you can get rid of 
your SS7 network because the PSTN Connection Service Provider handles 
that piece. You still do all your own porting and maintain all your 
connections with 911, LD, VOIP providers. If you want more information 
on how it all works, just message me privately.


MARY LOU CAREY
BackUP Telecom Consulting
Office: 615-791-9969
Cell: 615-796-

On 2021-02-08 03:35 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Due to receiving several offlist e-mails about this point, I wanted to
point out that I'm not looking to do SIP directly to an ILEC tandem. I
assume there would be some abstraction layer happening by a third
party.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com

-

From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "VoiceOps" 
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 9:24:57 AM
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

I did want to circle back on this.

I am currently a CLEC with traditional voice services in a single LATA
on a single set of tandems. We have SS7, do our own porting, etc.
I understand that going interconnected VoIP (instead of CLEC) may be
easier for my expansions.

So that I don't have to drag T1s all over the place, what options do I
have in front of me? To be clear, I am looking for specific providers
and products, even off-list solicitations.

I'm not afraid of T1s, they're just expensive. I got a quote for a
single T1 to the facility where the other tandem in our LATA is, and
it was far more expensive than just sending the calls out our
termination providers. If I need more than one T1 (one for each
tandem), then I'm really priced out of the market. Obviously that
course of action wouldn't help me for my own number blocks.

I looked at straight DID\minute services, but as some of our past (and
potential future) customers have several hundreds of DIDs compared to
the amount of traffic they'd have, that gets a difficult to operate
in.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com

-

From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "VoiceOps" 
Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 2:42:37 PM
Subject: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely left
out company names.

One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in
getting us the inbound long distance calls, not the local ones. Well,
they would, but the terms were vastly different.

Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local tandem,
what's the point in using a third party to connect to long distance?

Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different because
the access tandem is simpler, whereas the local tandem could
potentially involve connections to a bunch of other switches, once
volume dictated I needed direct connections...  and they don't want to
deal with that?

Are there third parties that don't have vastly different terms for
local tandem services?

Also, is it likely that I just don't understand what's going on? I
went circles with the sales rep to make sure I understood what he was
saying, but I could be wrong.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com

___
VoiceOps mailing list
VoiceOps@voiceops.org
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops

___
VoiceOps mailing list
VoiceOps@voiceops.org
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
___
VoiceOps mailing list
VoiceOps@voiceops.org
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops

___
VoiceOps mailing list
VoiceOps@voiceops.org
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops

Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Mike Hammett]

Due to receiving several offlist e-mails about this point, I wanted to point 
out that I'm not looking to do SIP directly to an ILEC tandem. I assume there 
would be some abstraction layer happening by a third party. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



- Original Message -

From: "Mike Hammett"  
To: "VoiceOps"  
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 9:24:57 AM 
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems 


I did want to circle back on this. 


I am currently a CLEC with traditional voice services in a single LATA on a 
single set of tandems. We have SS7, do our own porting, etc. 
I understand that going interconnected VoIP (instead of CLEC) may be easier for 
my expansions. 


So that I don't have to drag T1s all over the place, what options do I have in 
front of me? To be clear, I am looking for specific providers and products, 
even off-list solicitations. 


I'm not afraid of T1s, they're just expensive. I got a quote for a single T1 to 
the facility where the other tandem in our LATA is, and it was far more 
expensive than just sending the calls out our termination providers. If I need 
more than one T1 (one for each tandem), then I'm really priced out of the 
market. Obviously that course of action wouldn't help me for my own number 
blocks. 


I looked at straight DID\minute services, but as some of our past (and 
potential future) customers have several hundreds of DIDs compared to the 
amount of traffic they'd have, that gets a difficult to operate in. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



- Original Message -

From: "Mike Hammett"  
To: "VoiceOps"  
Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 2:42:37 PM 
Subject: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems 


I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely left out company 
names. 


One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in getting us the 
inbound long distance calls, not the local ones. Well, they would, but the 
terms were vastly different. 


Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local tandem, what's the 
point in using a third party to connect to long distance? 


Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different because the access 
tandem is simpler, whereas the local tandem could potentially involve 
connections to a bunch of other switches, once volume dictated I needed direct 
connections... and they don't want to deal with that? 


Are there third parties that don't have vastly different terms for local tandem 
services? 


Also, is it likely that I just don't understand what's going on? I went circles 
with the sales rep to make sure I understood what he was saying, but I could be 
wrong. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



___ 
VoiceOps mailing list 
VoiceOps@voiceops.org 
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops 


___ 
VoiceOps mailing list 
VoiceOps@voiceops.org 
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops 

___
VoiceOps mailing list
VoiceOps@voiceops.org
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops

Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Mike Hammett]

I did want to circle back on this. 


I am currently a CLEC with traditional voice services in a single LATA on a 
single set of tandems. We have SS7, do our own porting, etc. 
I understand that going interconnected VoIP (instead of CLEC) may be easier for 
my expansions. 


So that I don't have to drag T1s all over the place, what options do I have in 
front of me? To be clear, I am looking for specific providers and products, 
even off-list solicitations. 


I'm not afraid of T1s, they're just expensive. I got a quote for a single T1 to 
the facility where the other tandem in our LATA is, and it was far more 
expensive than just sending the calls out our termination providers. If I need 
more than one T1 (one for each tandem), then I'm really priced out of the 
market. Obviously that course of action wouldn't help me for my own number 
blocks. 


I looked at straight DID\minute services, but as some of our past (and 
potential future) customers have several hundreds of DIDs compared to the 
amount of traffic they'd have, that gets a difficult to operate in. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



- Original Message -

From: "Mike Hammett"  
To: "VoiceOps"  
Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 2:42:37 PM 
Subject: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems 


I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely left out company 
names. 


One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in getting us the 
inbound long distance calls, not the local ones. Well, they would, but the 
terms were vastly different. 


Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local tandem, what's the 
point in using a third party to connect to long distance? 


Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different because the access 
tandem is simpler, whereas the local tandem could potentially involve 
connections to a bunch of other switches, once volume dictated I needed direct 
connections... and they don't want to deal with that? 


Are there third parties that don't have vastly different terms for local tandem 
services? 


Also, is it likely that I just don't understand what's going on? I went circles 
with the sales rep to make sure I understood what he was saying, but I could be 
wrong. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



___ 
VoiceOps mailing list 
VoiceOps@voiceops.org 
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops 

___
VoiceOps mailing list
VoiceOps@voiceops.org
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops

Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Mary Lou Carey]

It is a good alternative if you don't offer DSL, TLS, UNEs, etc but it's 
more cost effective to do it as an Interconnected VOIP carrier than as a 
CLEC if you go that route.


MARY LOU CAREY
BackUP Telecom Consulting
Office: 615-791-9969
Cell: 615-796-

On 2019-08-16 10:44 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

*nods* it's the transport piece I don't have. Transport to all of
these tandems at reasonable prices. I figured since they did have
those pieces, it'd be a good alternative. Maybe not.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com

-

FROM: "Paul Timmins" 
TO: "Mike Hammett" 
CC: "VoiceOps" 
SENT: Saturday, August 10, 2019 1:20:43 AM
SUBJECT: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

Inteliquent has several products:

Outbound IXC termination - good for sending translated toll free
calls. They give you money for sending the calls.
LTS - inbound and outbound local/local toll exchange with inteliquent
members. Not an A-Z product, but the cheapest way to send calls to
tmo/comcast/etc. You get the calls back through this too.
IXC terminating inbound - they become the tandem of record in the LERG
for your interlata traffic. I think they give you a cut of the tandem
transit fee they charge IXCs but it's been a while since I read the
contract.
AIA - outbound LD product, not A-Z - super competitive rates to on-net
carriers and a few others they get a deal on. If someone else uses
this, it comes in the IXC terminating inbound and you bill
inteliquent's CIC for the inbound inter carrier compensation where
applicable. They make their money in not having to pay the tandem
transit and other crap that an IXC would ordinarily pay to terminate,
but they still pay the terminating carrier's inter carrier comp.

Local interconnection service - mostly for interconnected voip. You
use their switches too interconnect. Not cheaper than doing it
yourself, unless you don't already have a TDM switch and SS7 links and
transport. If you lack either of the 3, it can work out financially.

-Paul


On Aug 9, 2019, at 5:42 PM, Mike Hammett 
wrote:

I wanted to note that I am still interested in working with
competitive tandem providers for "on-net" calls...  calls among
their customers, without ever hitting an ILEC tandem.

Also, now that I look at their web page...  it says it allows me to
receive both local and long distance calls using that service...
which seems to conflict with what the sales guy told me.  *sigh*

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com [1]

Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com [2]

-

FROM: "Mike Hammett" 
TO: "VoiceOps" 
SENT: Friday, August 9, 2019 2:42:37 PM
SUBJECT: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely left
out company names.

One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in
getting us the inbound long distance calls, not the local ones.
Well, they would, but the terms were vastly different.

Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local tandem,
what's the point in using a third party to connect to long distance?

Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different because
the access tandem is simpler, whereas the local tandem could
potentially involve connections to a bunch of other switches, once
volume dictated I needed direct connections...  and they don't want
to deal with that?

Are there third parties that don't have vastly different terms for
local tandem services?

Also, is it likely that I just don't understand what's going on? I
went circles with the sales rep to make sure I understood what he
was saying, but I could be wrong.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com

___
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Links:
--
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[2] http://www.midwest-ix.com/
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Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Mike Hammett]

*nods* it's the transport piece I don't have. Transport to all of these tandems 
at reasonable prices. I figured since they did have those pieces, it'd be a 
good alternative. Maybe not. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



- Original Message -

From: "Paul Timmins"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "VoiceOps"  
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2019 1:20:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems 

Inteliquent has several products: 


Outbound IXC termination - good for sending translated toll free calls. They 
give you money for sending the calls. 
LTS - inbound and outbound local/local toll exchange with inteliquent members. 
Not an A-Z product, but the cheapest way to send calls to tmo/comcast/etc. You 
get the calls back through this too. 
IXC terminating inbound - they become the tandem of record in the LERG for your 
interlata traffic. I think they give you a cut of the tandem transit fee they 
charge IXCs but it's been a while since I read the contract. 
AIA - outbound LD product, not A-Z - super competitive rates to on-net carriers 
and a few others they get a deal on. If someone else uses this, it comes in the 
IXC terminating inbound and you bill inteliquent's CIC for the inbound inter 
carrier compensation where applicable. They make their money in not having to 
pay the tandem transit and other crap that an IXC would ordinarily pay to 
terminate, but they still pay the terminating carrier's inter carrier comp. 


Local interconnection service - mostly for interconnected voip. You use their 
switches too interconnect. Not cheaper than doing it yourself, unless you don't 
already have a TDM switch and SS7 links and transport. If you lack either of 
the 3, it can work out financially. 


-Paul 









On Aug 9, 2019, at 5:42 PM, Mike Hammett < voice...@ics-il.net > wrote: 


I wanted to note that I am still interested in working with competitive tandem 
providers for "on-net" calls... calls among their customers, without ever 
hitting an ILEC tandem. 


Also, now that I look at their web page... it says it allows me to receive both 
local and long distance calls using that service... which seems to conflict 
with what the sales guy told me. *sigh* 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



- Original Message -

From: "Mike Hammett" < voice...@ics-il.net > 
To: "VoiceOps" < voiceops@voiceops.org > 
Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 2:42:37 PM 
Subject: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems 


I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely left out company 
names. 


One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in getting us the 
inbound long distance calls, not the local ones. Well, they would, but the 
terms were vastly different. 


Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local tandem, what's the 
point in using a third party to connect to long distance? 


Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different because the access 
tandem is simpler, whereas the local tandem could potentially involve 
connections to a bunch of other switches, once volume dictated I needed direct 
connections... and they don't want to deal with that? 


Are there third parties that don't have vastly different terms for local tandem 
services? 


Also, is it likely that I just don't understand what's going on? I went circles 
with the sales rep to make sure I understood what he was saying, but I could be 
wrong. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



___ 
VoiceOps mailing list 
VoiceOps@voiceops.org 
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops 

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https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops 



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Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Paul Timmins]

Inteliquent has several products:

Outbound IXC termination - good for sending translated toll free calls. They 
give you money for sending the calls.
LTS - inbound and outbound local/local toll exchange with inteliquent members. 
Not an A-Z product, but the cheapest way to send calls to tmo/comcast/etc. You 
get the calls back through this too.
IXC terminating inbound - they become the tandem of record in the LERG for your 
interlata traffic. I think they give you a cut of the tandem transit fee they 
charge IXCs but it's been a while since I read the contract.
AIA - outbound LD product, not A-Z - super competitive rates to on-net carriers 
and a few others they get a deal on. If someone else uses this, it comes in the 
IXC terminating inbound and you bill inteliquent's CIC for the inbound inter 
carrier compensation where applicable. They make their money in not having to 
pay the tandem transit and other crap that an IXC would ordinarily pay to 
terminate, but they still pay the terminating carrier's inter carrier comp.

Local interconnection service - mostly for interconnected voip. You use their 
switches too interconnect. Not cheaper than doing it yourself, unless you don't 
already have a TDM switch and SS7 links and transport. If you lack either of 
the 3, it can work out financially.

-Paul



> On Aug 9, 2019, at 5:42 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> I wanted to note that I am still interested in working with competitive 
> tandem providers for "on-net" calls...  calls among their customers, without 
> ever hitting an ILEC tandem.
> 
> Also, now that I look at their web page...  it says it allows me to receive 
> both local and long distance calls using that service... which seems to 
> conflict with what the sales guy told me.  *sigh*
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> http://www.midwest-ix.com 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> To: "VoiceOps" 
> Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 2:42:37 PM
> Subject: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems
> 
> I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely left out 
> company names.
> 
> One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in getting us 
> the inbound long distance calls, not the local ones. Well, they would, but 
> the terms were vastly different.
> 
> Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local tandem, what's 
> the point in using a third party to connect to long distance?
> 
> Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different because the 
> access tandem is simpler, whereas the local tandem could potentially involve 
> connections to a bunch of other switches, once volume dictated I needed 
> direct connections...  and they don't want to deal with that?
> 
> Are there third parties that don't have vastly different terms for local 
> tandem services?
> 
> Also, is it likely that I just don't understand what's going on? I went 
> circles with the sales rep to make sure I understood what he was saying, but 
> I could be wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> VoiceOps mailing list
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> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
> 
> ___
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> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops 
> 
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Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Mike Hammett]

I wanted to note that I am still interested in working with competitive tandem 
providers for "on-net" calls... calls among their customers, without ever 
hitting an ILEC tandem. 


Also, now that I look at their web page... it says it allows me to receive both 
local and long distance calls using that service... which seems to conflict 
with what the sales guy told me. *sigh* 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



- Original Message -

From: "Mike Hammett"  
To: "VoiceOps"  
Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 2:42:37 PM 
Subject: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems 


I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely left out company 
names. 


One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in getting us the 
inbound long distance calls, not the local ones. Well, they would, but the 
terms were vastly different. 


Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local tandem, what's the 
point in using a third party to connect to long distance? 


Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different because the access 
tandem is simpler, whereas the local tandem could potentially involve 
connections to a bunch of other switches, once volume dictated I needed direct 
connections... and they don't want to deal with that? 


Are there third parties that don't have vastly different terms for local tandem 
services? 


Also, is it likely that I just don't understand what's going on? I went circles 
with the sales rep to make sure I understood what he was saying, but I could be 
wrong. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



___ 
VoiceOps mailing list 
VoiceOps@voiceops.org 
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Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Mike Hammett]

*nods* I suspect we'll be keeping our own SS7 for a while. We're already in the 
CO for other reasons and there are more points of failure than a circuit from 
one room to the other. As you alluded to, if I'm already there, it's hard for 
them to do it any cheaper than I am. 



*sigh* The world of telecom... ;-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



- Original Message -

From: "Mary Lou Carey"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "VoiceOps"  
Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 3:16:22 PM 
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems 

I forgot to mention one more thing..if the third party tandem 
provider is handling the local and intraLATA traffic for you as well as 
the FGD traffic, then you don't have to mess with managing your own SS7 
network or programming your switch for the PSTN routing. 

MARY LOU CAREY 
BackUP Telecom Consulting 
Office: 615-791-9969 
Cell: 615-796- 

On 2019-08-09 03:14 PM, Mary Lou Carey wrote: 
> There are a couple differences for various reasons. In the LERG there 
> are actually 3 tandems listed: One for Local, One for IntraLATA, and 
> one for FGD traffic. When you interconnect with only the ILEC, they 
> only have you establish 2 trunk groups. A local tandem trunk group 
> that handles the Local and IntraLATA traffic, and an Access Tandem 
> trunk group that handles the transit traffic you and the IXC carriers. 
> When you are connected to the ILEC, all 3 tandem offices in the LERG 
> are listed as the ILECs tandems. 
> 
> If you hire a third party tandem provider for just "access traffic", 
> you're only changing that FGD tandem so the only trunk group you are 
> eliminating with the ILEC is the Access Tandem Trunk group. 
> 
> If you're going to have a third party tandem provider handle your 
> local and IntraLATA traffic as well as your FGD traffic, then the LERG 
> records change significantly. Instead of using your own switch CLLI, 
> you get a POI CLLI for the LATA and populate the third party tandem 
> provider's switch CLLI in the actual switch field of the LERG. This 
> tells everyone that the NXXs belong to your company, but you're 
> leasing another company's switch to handle all the routing. This 
> service eliminates the need for all dedicated trunks between you and 
> the ILEC so you just have trunks between you and the third party 
> tandem. 
> 
> However, there is one more caveat and that is that it depends on what 
> ILEC you are interconnecting with. Verizon will allow the 3rd party 
> tandem provider to add your company's NXXs onto their existing trunk 
> group. CenturyLink and AT do not do that. They require the third 
> party tandem providers to install a dedicated trunk group for each 
> company that they are providing switching service for. Because a 
> dedicated trunk group between them and the ILEC costs them more, they 
> will bill you differently in those areas. 
> 
> So the upside to having a third party tandem provider for Local 
> IntraLATA traffic is that you don't have to manage the Local IntraLATA 
> trunks yourself. The downside is that you probably will pay more per 
> minute if you send the traffic through the third party tandem 
> provider. Make sense? 
> 
> 
> MARY LOU CAREY 
> BackUP Telecom Consulting 
> Office: 615-791-9969 
> Cell: 615-796- 
> 
> On 2019-08-09 02:42 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
>> I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely left 
>> out company names. 
>> 
>> One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in 
>> getting us the inbound long distance calls, not the local ones. Well, 
>> they would, but the terms were vastly different. 
>> 
>> Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local tandem, 
>> what's the point in using a third party to connect to long distance? 
>> 
>> Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different because 
>> the access tandem is simpler, whereas the local tandem could 
>> potentially involve connections to a bunch of other switches, once 
>> volume dictated I needed direct connections... and they don't want to 
>> deal with that? 
>> 
>> Are there third parties that don't have vastly different terms for 
>> local tandem services? 
>> 
>> Also, is it likely that I just don't understand what's going on? I 
>> went circles with the sales rep to make sure I understood what he was 
>> saying, but I could be wrong. 
>> 
>> - 
>> Mike Hammett 
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> http://www.ics-il.com 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> http://www.midwest-ix.com 
>> ___ 
>> VoiceOps mailing list 
>> VoiceOps@voiceops.org 
>> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops 

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Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Mike Hammett]

*nods* If I'm not using a third party tandem provider for the local tandem, 
then I have to build it myself (whether it's actual collocation or just 
dropping trunks on some transport provider). Since I already did all of that 
work, why have that third party do the access tandem... since I'm already there 
anyway. That product just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. 




I do understand that they would have higher costs in some (even many) 
scenarios, simply by adding me as a customer. The commercial terms for the two 
types of service were as different as unicorns and lollipops. That's why I 
assumed things must be critically different... or they just aren't competitive 
on that product and someone else is. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



- Original Message -

From: "Mary Lou Carey"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "VoiceOps"  
Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 3:14:38 PM 
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems 

There are a couple differences for various reasons. In the LERG there 
are actually 3 tandems listed: One for Local, One for IntraLATA, and one 
for FGD traffic. When you interconnect with only the ILEC, they only 
have you establish 2 trunk groups. A local tandem trunk group that 
handles the Local and IntraLATA traffic, and an Access Tandem trunk 
group that handles the transit traffic you and the IXC carriers. When 
you are connected to the ILEC, all 3 tandem offices in the LERG are 
listed as the ILECs tandems. 

If you hire a third party tandem provider for just "access traffic", 
you're only changing that FGD tandem so the only trunk group you are 
eliminating with the ILEC is the Access Tandem Trunk group. 

If you're going to have a third party tandem provider handle your local 
and IntraLATA traffic as well as your FGD traffic, then the LERG records 
change significantly. Instead of using your own switch CLLI, you get a 
POI CLLI for the LATA and populate the third party tandem provider's 
switch CLLI in the actual switch field of the LERG. This tells everyone 
that the NXXs belong to your company, but you're leasing another 
company's switch to handle all the routing. This service eliminates the 
need for all dedicated trunks between you and the ILEC so you just have 
trunks between you and the third party tandem. 

However, there is one more caveat and that is that it depends on what 
ILEC you are interconnecting with. Verizon will allow the 3rd party 
tandem provider to add your company's NXXs onto their existing trunk 
group. CenturyLink and AT do not do that. They require the third party 
tandem providers to install a dedicated trunk group for each company 
that they are providing switching service for. Because a dedicated trunk 
group between them and the ILEC costs them more, they will bill you 
differently in those areas. 

So the upside to having a third party tandem provider for Local 
IntraLATA traffic is that you don't have to manage the Local IntraLATA 
trunks yourself. The downside is that you probably will pay more per 
minute if you send the traffic through the third party tandem provider. 
Make sense? 


MARY LOU CAREY 
BackUP Telecom Consulting 
Office: 615-791-9969 
Cell: 615-796- 

On 2019-08-09 02:42 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely left 
> out company names. 
> 
> One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in 
> getting us the inbound long distance calls, not the local ones. Well, 
> they would, but the terms were vastly different. 
> 
> Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local tandem, 
> what's the point in using a third party to connect to long distance? 
> 
> Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different because 
> the access tandem is simpler, whereas the local tandem could 
> potentially involve connections to a bunch of other switches, once 
> volume dictated I needed direct connections... and they don't want to 
> deal with that? 
> 
> Are there third parties that don't have vastly different terms for 
> local tandem services? 
> 
> Also, is it likely that I just don't understand what's going on? I 
> went circles with the sales rep to make sure I understood what he was 
> saying, but I could be wrong. 
> 
> - 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> http://www.ics-il.com 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> http://www.midwest-ix.com 
> ___ 
> VoiceOps mailing list 
> VoiceOps@voiceops.org 
> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops 

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Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Mike Hammett]

In our home turf, the same entity is operating local and long distance tandems 
(I hear it's even the same chassis, just a different blade), so locally, I 
wouldn't really be avoiding dealing with the ILEC. I understand that may not 
always be the case. I'd assume it would be fairly common, though, where one 
ILEC is dominate in the LATA. 


Ah, so scale doesn't necessarily help them on the local side if I need all of 
my own trunks anyway. That makes sense. The terms presented to me don't seem to 
jive well with (my portion of costs of the other gear + profit) * number of 
trunks required, but that could be a business decision on their side. 


It totally makes sense that the incumbent and\or government are the source of 
the problems and not some third party trying to solve problems and provide a 
service. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



- Original Message -

From: "Paul Timmins"  
To: voiceops@voiceops.org 
Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 2:51:41 PM 
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems 


I'm sure I know which one you're talking about. It's because they exist in 
entirely different regulatory domains. The upside of inbound feature group D is 
that you get to cut out a terrible ILEC tandem, and at least the vendor I'm 
thinking of doesn't charge for the trunks themselves, so you're at a very 
strong cost advantage on it. 


Inbound local trunking, usually interconnection agreements dictate that the 
trunks have to be dedicated per carrier, so you're just avoiding sinking 
hardware cost and transport, but it still uses up considerable resources at 
least in AT areas. So if you need 3 trunks to CHCGILWB's tandem, they can't 
just route that to their trunks where they have existing capacity, like FGD, 
but they have to install 3 shiny new T1s just for your traffic, that they order 
as you, to their equipment. It's stupid, convoluted, and wasteful but it's not 
the vendor's fault, it's AT maintaining artificial barriers to competition. 
As if they'd have it any other way. 


-Paul 



On 8/9/19 3:42 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely left out company 
names. 


One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in getting us the 
inbound long distance calls, not the local ones. Well, they would, but the 
terms were vastly different. 


Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local tandem, what's the 
point in using a third party to connect to long distance? 


Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different because the access 
tandem is simpler, whereas the local tandem could potentially involve 
connections to a bunch of other switches, once volume dictated I needed direct 
connections... and they don't want to deal with that? 


Are there third parties that don't have vastly different terms for local tandem 
services? 


Also, is it likely that I just don't understand what's going on? I went circles 
with the sales rep to make sure I understood what he was saying, but I could be 
wrong. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 



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Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Mary Lou Carey]

I forgot to mention one more thing..if the third party tandem 
provider is handling the local and intraLATA traffic for you as well as 
the FGD traffic, then you don't have to mess with managing your own SS7 
network or programming your switch for the PSTN routing.


MARY LOU CAREY
BackUP Telecom Consulting
Office: 615-791-9969
Cell: 615-796-

On 2019-08-09 03:14 PM, Mary Lou Carey wrote:

There are a couple differences for various reasons. In the LERG there
are actually 3 tandems listed: One for Local, One for IntraLATA, and
one for FGD traffic. When you interconnect with only the ILEC, they
only have you establish 2 trunk groups. A local tandem trunk group
that handles the Local and IntraLATA traffic, and an Access Tandem
trunk group that handles the transit traffic you and the IXC carriers.
When you are  connected to the ILEC, all 3 tandem offices in the LERG
are listed as the ILECs tandems.

If you hire a third party tandem provider for just "access traffic",
you're only changing that FGD tandem so the only trunk group you are
eliminating with the ILEC is the Access Tandem Trunk group.

If you're going to have a third party tandem provider handle your
local and IntraLATA traffic as well as your FGD traffic, then the LERG
records change significantly. Instead of using your own switch CLLI,
you get a POI CLLI for the LATA and populate the third party tandem
provider's switch CLLI in the actual switch field of the LERG. This
tells everyone that the NXXs belong to your company, but you're
leasing another company's switch to handle all the routing. This
service eliminates the need for all dedicated trunks between you and
the ILEC so you just have trunks between you and the third party
tandem.

However, there is one more caveat and that is that it depends on what
ILEC you are interconnecting with. Verizon will allow the 3rd party
tandem provider to add your company's NXXs onto their existing trunk
group. CenturyLink and AT do not do that. They require the third
party tandem providers to install a dedicated trunk group for each
company that they are providing switching service for. Because a
dedicated trunk group between them and the ILEC costs them more, they
will bill you differently in those areas.

So the upside to having a third party tandem provider for Local
IntraLATA traffic is that you don't have to manage the Local IntraLATA
trunks yourself. The downside is that you probably will pay more per
minute if you send the traffic through the third party tandem
provider. Make sense?


MARY LOU CAREY
BackUP Telecom Consulting
Office: 615-791-9969
Cell: 615-796-

On 2019-08-09 02:42 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely left
out company names.

One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in
getting us the inbound long distance calls, not the local ones. Well,
they would, but the terms were vastly different.

Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local tandem,
what's the point in using a third party to connect to long distance?

Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different because
the access tandem is simpler, whereas the local tandem could
potentially involve connections to a bunch of other switches, once
volume dictated I needed direct connections...  and they don't want to
deal with that?

Are there third parties that don't have vastly different terms for
local tandem services?

Also, is it likely that I just don't understand what's going on? I
went circles with the sales rep to make sure I understood what he was
saying, but I could be wrong.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com
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Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Mary Lou Carey]

There are a couple differences for various reasons. In the LERG there 
are actually 3 tandems listed: One for Local, One for IntraLATA, and one 
for FGD traffic. When you interconnect with only the ILEC, they only 
have you establish 2 trunk groups. A local tandem trunk group that 
handles the Local and IntraLATA traffic, and an Access Tandem trunk 
group that handles the transit traffic you and the IXC carriers. When 
you are  connected to the ILEC, all 3 tandem offices in the LERG are 
listed as the ILECs tandems.


If you hire a third party tandem provider for just "access traffic", 
you're only changing that FGD tandem so the only trunk group you are 
eliminating with the ILEC is the Access Tandem Trunk group.


If you're going to have a third party tandem provider handle your local 
and IntraLATA traffic as well as your FGD traffic, then the LERG records 
change significantly. Instead of using your own switch CLLI, you get a 
POI CLLI for the LATA and populate the third party tandem provider's 
switch CLLI in the actual switch field of the LERG. This tells everyone 
that the NXXs belong to your company, but you're leasing another 
company's switch to handle all the routing. This service eliminates the 
need for all dedicated trunks between you and the ILEC so you just have 
trunks between you and the third party tandem.


However, there is one more caveat and that is that it depends on what 
ILEC you are interconnecting with. Verizon will allow the 3rd party 
tandem provider to add your company's NXXs onto their existing trunk 
group. CenturyLink and AT do not do that. They require the third party 
tandem providers to install a dedicated trunk group for each company 
that they are providing switching service for. Because a dedicated trunk 
group between them and the ILEC costs them more, they will bill you 
differently in those areas.


So the upside to having a third party tandem provider for Local 
IntraLATA traffic is that you don't have to manage the Local IntraLATA 
trunks yourself. The downside is that you probably will pay more per 
minute if you send the traffic through the third party tandem provider. 
Make sense?



MARY LOU CAREY
BackUP Telecom Consulting
Office: 615-791-9969
Cell: 615-796-

On 2019-08-09 02:42 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely left
out company names.

One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in
getting us the inbound long distance calls, not the local ones. Well,
they would, but the terms were vastly different.

Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local tandem,
what's the point in using a third party to connect to long distance?

Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different because
the access tandem is simpler, whereas the local tandem could
potentially involve connections to a bunch of other switches, once
volume dictated I needed direct connections...  and they don't want to
deal with that?

Are there third parties that don't have vastly different terms for
local tandem services?

Also, is it likely that I just don't understand what's going on? I
went circles with the sales rep to make sure I understood what he was
saying, but I could be wrong.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com
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Re: [VoiceOps] Connecting to Remote Tandems

[Paul Timmins]

I'm sure I know which one you're talking about. It's because they exist 
in entirely different regulatory domains. The upside of inbound feature 
group D is that you get to cut out a terrible ILEC tandem, and at least 
the vendor I'm thinking of doesn't charge for the trunks themselves, so 
you're at a very strong cost advantage on it.


Inbound local trunking, usually interconnection agreements dictate that 
the trunks have to be dedicated per carrier, so you're just avoiding 
sinking hardware cost and transport, but it still uses up considerable 
resources at least in AT areas. So if you need 3 trunks to CHCGILWB's 
tandem, they can't just route that to their trunks where they have 
existing capacity, like FGD, but they have to install 3 shiny new T1s 
just for your traffic, that they order as you, to their equipment. It's 
stupid, convoluted, and wasteful but it's not the vendor's fault, it's 
AT maintaining artificial barriers to competition. As if they'd have 
it any other way.


-Paul

On 8/9/19 3:42 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
I'm evaluating methods of extending our footprint. I purposely left 
out company names.


One of the companies we talked to was really only interested in 
getting us the inbound long distance calls, not the local ones. Well, 
they would, but the terms were vastly different.


Given that I still need to build out to connect to the local tandem, 
what's the point in using a third party to connect to long distance?


Are the terms for connecting to the local tandems different because 
the access tandem is simpler, whereas the local tandem could 
potentially involve connections to a bunch of other switches, once 
volume dictated I needed direct connections...  and they don't want to 
deal with that?


Are there third parties that don't have vastly different terms for 
local tandem services?


Also, is it likely that I just don't understand what's going on? I 
went circles with the sales rep to make sure I understood what he was 
saying, but I could be wrong.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com



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