[volt-nuts] HP 3457A Arrived
Boy, I have the worst of luck. I think Murphy follows me around. I won't bore you with the details about my recently dropped by Fedex service monitor and major repair cost. The 3457A arrived. Other than missing feet, it looked in decent condition. I powered it up and that is when things went wrong. The first several times, on power up, I got the Address display and the beep, but instead of going to DCV, it displayed PASSED, with an occasional FAILED. It would do this seemingly forever. Once, it powered up normally, then froze. Another time, it powered up normally and I managed to read the error code (1 - Hardware error) and the auxilliarly error (1 - Isolation error durring normal operation). Later, it would power up and immediately display FAILED. At this time, I happened to lift the front of the cabinet and saw that FAILED and PASSED would randomly alternate on the display. Something is definitely loose. I would have already opened the DMM up, except the seller applied anti-tamper labels to the case screws (I have a 30 day warranty). I have sent all of this information to the seller. Hopefully, he will authorize me to open the case and see what is what. Otherwise, I have no choice but to return the DMM. Joe Gray W5JG ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A calibration?
I would agree, the point of keeping the cal data intact is the ability to tell if the unit is 'in tolerance' on arrival at Agilent, useful information about the 'quality/stability' of the meter, I think. Also, the 'cal number' is stored in the 'cal RAM'. If you send the 3457A in with no cal data stored and it comes back with a 'cal number' of '1', I guess you also get the answer to the question of how the 'cal number' increments after a visit to Agilent. Is there a 'cal number' stored in other 34xxA DMM's? 3478A for instance? Joe -Original Message- From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dr. David Kirkby Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 12:39 AM To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A calibration? On 20 August 2013 02:59, J. L. Trantham jlt...@att.net wrote: Interesting video. A bit of a silly video IMHO. I can't take anyone seriously who measures the noise on a 6.5 digit multimeter by looking at the digits which change as it is across his standard bench power supply. Personally I would have thought one measured the stability of the bench supply by measuring with the DVM rather than the other way around On the 3458A that I was able to 'kill' the 'cal RAM', the 'cal counter' was at '1' when I received it. When I finished doing my 'home cal' on a 'blank' 'cal RAM', the 'cal counter' was about 20 or so. It appears that every measurement that is calibrated increments the 'cal counter'. I was thinking about that cal ram, and the issues changing the battery. If one intends sending the meter away for cal, is there any point in worrying about if the ram is kept alive? I guess it might be nice to know the performance before it was calibrated as Agilent will give you, but there is a bit of a risk of damaging chaning the battery live. I intend changing the battery in mine then sending it for cal. Dave ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A calibration?
Joe, You might start with just measuring the battery voltage. There are two different batteries used in the 3457A, one that is obsolete and the other still obtainable. Per the manual, there are two resistors that need to be changed if switching from the 'obsolete' battery to the 'new battery'. However, I wonder if the resistors even need to be changed. See message #48954 in the archives and the several messages surrounding that. If the battery is 'OK', I would favor just sending it to Agilent for calibration, unless you can 'SAFELY' change the battery while preserving the cal data. Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Gray Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 10:16 PM To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A calibration? Someone pointed out in the comments that his DMM was probably calibrated once or twice at the most. From looking at what is on this guys shelf, he has way more money than I do to spend on test equipment. I'm jealous :-) Speaking of too much test equipment, that guy Dave who does the EEVBlog videos also has a lab to drool over. I don't know what he does for a living, but he seems to be more knowledgeable than the guy from South Africa (who is also long winded and boring). As for the cheaper solution, I just bought a 3457A. I expect to see it this week. After checking it out for a bit, I'll be sending it to Agilent. Although it may seem ridiculous to spend $200 getting it calibrated, I figure that I'd be better off having Agilent do it this time, so I know where I stand. I'll have to read the cal counter before and after sending it to Agilent. I'll let you know the results. If the battery looks original, I'll have to change that out before sending it for calibration. I know that I have to keep the SRAM powered, so I don't loose the data already there. Joe Gray W5JG On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 7:59 PM, J. L. Trantham jlt...@att.net wrote: Interesting video. His 'cal certificate' shows no data other than 'in tolerance' and the 'standards' used to established that. He also makes a point of the 'calibration counter'. On the 3458A that I was able to 'kill' the 'cal RAM', the 'cal counter' was at '1' when I received it. When I finished doing my 'home cal' on a 'blank' 'cal RAM', the 'cal counter' was about 20 or so. It appears that every measurement that is calibrated increments the 'cal counter'. I don't recall how many ranges the 3457A has but add them all up and that is what I would expect the 'cal counter' to increment by once you finish a 'home cal'. Since Agilent does all this via HPIB (at least that's what I think), it increments the 'cal counter' only by '1' step. I would opt for a 'cheaper' 'seems to be working' 3457A then send it to Agilent for their calibration rather than spend extra for someone else's calibration. Joe WB4BPP -Original Message- From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Gray Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 8:20 PM To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A calibration? Recently, we were discussing where to get a DMM calibrated. Someone mentioned an ebay seller in Albuquerque who had their meters calibrated across town by a company with a similar name. I am currently watching a YouTube video about the HP 3457A. At around 7 minutes, take a look at the calibration certificate when he holds it up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfxpJCdgVwc Joe Gray W5JG ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A calibration?
Op 20-8-2013 7:39, Dr. David Kirkby schreef: A bit of a silly video IMHO. I can't take anyone seriously who measures the noise on a 6.5 digit multimeter by looking at the digits which change as it is across his standard bench power supply. Personally I would have thought one measured the stability of the bench supply by measuring with the DVM rather than the other way around Not only that, the guy obviously doesn't even know how the thing works, based on his 'explanation' of integration time. Good video for when I can't get to sleep, though ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A calibration?
On 20 August 2013 15:27, Rob Klein rob.kl...@smalldesign.nl wrote: Good video for when I can't get to sleep, though Yes, it does really drag on. He could say what he has to say in 25% of the time, by cutting out all the irrelevant rubbish. Dave ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A calibration?
On 20 August 2013 17:14, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: I have replaced this type of battery in other equipment, so it isn't a big deal for me. I'm sure I can do it without losing the cal data. Joe Gray W5JG Given the discussion on here a week or two ago about Agilent not adjusting something if it is spec, there may be some advantage in not having the ram contents kept. That way the meter is sure to require adjustment and do wll be adjusted as close as possible. Whilst that may not suite a metrologist who wants to track drift over time, it suits me better to have it made as close as possible, ratther than just left if within spec. Dave ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A
Hi Dave, I find it interesting that goldenrubi uses other dealers websites as sources for datasheets in his auctions! I looked for a laminated HP panel for you but it seems all the one I have are the earlier painted and screen printed versions. Robert G8RPI. From: Dr. David Kirkby drkir...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement volt-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, 12 August 2013, 10:44 Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A On 11 August 2013 05:10, Orin Eman orin.e...@gmail.com wrote: Well, lets discuss the 3456A I got from goldenrubi, calibrated. They send a calibration certificate which claims that their standards are traceable to NIST. I have no reason to doubt that. The list of standards used is reasonable for a 3456A. I can't comment on goldenrubi's ability to calibrate a 3457A, but I'm pretty sure he had a VNA cal kit on eBay which was calibrated. I was suspicious, but I can't recall the exact details. I can't find the auction, but I'm 99% sure it was goldenrubi. I know Orin knows about VNAs, so he at least will understand this. But even if you don't, it should be clear that you can't calibrate a device properly using a device of the same specification. Anyway, goldenrubi has two items on eBay now, both related to vector network analyzer, neither of which have cal certificates, but I doubted the accuracy of some comments on those auctions. So I deceided to use the ask seller a question and query things. As I suspected, he does not have a clue. It should be noted 1) One kit (85032B) has a part missing, which he is clear about. 2) The same kit shows some adapters (which I think are not the correct models), but the adapters are present. The auction says they are not, so I query that too. These two things are not central to the problem. I also strongly suspect two of these parts in the 85032B are not original, as they have no HP markings on them at all. I have one of these kits, and parts clearly have HP markings on them. 1) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/14143954is a TESTED HP 83032B typep N calibration kit. 2) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190780743417is a TESTED 85053A 26.5 GHz 3.5mm verification kit. Bear in mind, the manuals for both devices states the equipment to verify the performance of the kits is not commericially available. Now goldenrubi tells me he can't calibrate them, but his reasons are totally wong. He seems to think that he could calibrate the kits if he had other kits of the same model. This is totally wrong. I know for a fact the open and short standards should be checked by mechanical dimensions, not electrical measurements. I have got that from someone at Agilent who is a specialist in this area. If you look at papers on the calibration of these things, you will find things like laser micrometers are used. === My 1st message to goldenrubi Dear goldenrubi, I'm interested in this 85032B. Can you tell me how it was tested? Can you provide a calibration certificate? The auction states it does not come with the APC-7 to N adapters, but they are in the picture. Do you intend removing them? If so, I'm also interested in the 3.5 mm verification kit you have in another auction. I'd like to know again how it was tested and whether it is calibrated. Dave - drkirkby == He replies, saying he has the network anayzers these kits belong to, so that is how he tests them! He says to calibate them he would need another calibrated kit of the same model. This is total rubbish as you can buy the kits easy enough (excepting the 85032B is obsolete), but the manuals make it clear the equipment to verify the performance is not commerically available. goldenrubi 1st reply to me == Dear drkirkby, I do not have the HP - Agilent 85032-60009 Short in this kit. I have everything else. We have the Network analyzers that these kits belong too. That is how we test them out. We cannot calibrate them or provide certificate because we do not have this HP 85032B full kit and we would need another kit that was calibrated in order to do a one on one calibration on my kit. You get everything that is in the picture. I will not remove any item. The 3.5MM verification kit was tested by us. we have the equipment to test these kits out. WE do not have the calibration kit to re-cal my kits on a one on one calibration. so we cannot cal them. NO standards to work with. - goldenrubi I seek clarification, to make sure I have understood him correct == My second message to goldenrubi Dear goldenrubi, OK, I understand the 85032-60009 Short is missing from the 85032B calibration kit on auction 4143954. If I understand you correctly, you can't calibrate the 85032B since you don't have another 85032B - is that correct? Why does your auction for the 85032B say the adapters are missing, when there are adapters in the picture? What equipment do you use to test the 85053A 26.5 GHz 3.5mm
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A
Hi Charles, I have to disagree on one point, You CAN do a TRACABLE calibration without any approval. What you can't do is ACCREDITED Calibration. Many labs are accredited but also offer un-accredited, tracable calibration at lower cost. An example is that production test equipment could be tracable but qualification test accredited. Accredition is normally driven by legislation or self-regenerating quality systems. Of course if you cal a 4.5 digit meter against a tracable standard, the highest level you could reasonably sub-calibrate would be 3.5 digit or possibly 3200 count. This assumes the 4.5 digit has suitable accuracy and stability specifications, just because it has more digits does not mean it's more accurate ;-) Somethings don't need to be tracable, a Fluke 720 K-V divider or Caesium frequency standard spring to mind. Robert G8RPI From: Charles Steinmetz csteinm...@yandex.com To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement volt-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, 12 August 2013, 17:21 Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A Dave wrote: I see a lot of sellers selling things on ebay which are NIST tracable, but I wonder what this means. Let's asume I borrow a 3458A 8.5 digit DVM which has a valid (i.e. non- goldenrubi ) NIST tracable calibration, and use the 3458A to calibrate my 4.5 digit handheld DVM. If I work out all the uncertainties, could I perform a NIST traceable calibration on a 6.5, 7.5 or even 8.5 digit meter using my handheld DVM? No, you could not perform ANY traceable calibration with the 3458A itself, much less with any instrument you had calibrated with the 3458A, because *you* are not accredited (i.e., your laboratory procedures are not reviewed and audited by a competent third-party to establish their reliability and, therefore, to create the link of traceability between your USE of the traceable 3458A and a primary voltage standard). Thus, the chain of traceability is broken at your USE of the 3458A. You would have a tool with a traceable calibration (the 3458A), but you could not perform traceable calibrations with it unless you obtained accrditation for your home lab. Equipment dealers and even some so-called calibration labs ignore this fact and act as if using the traceable DMM to calibrate another instrument can result in a traceable calibration, notwithstanding the fact that the person/lab doing that calibration is not accredited (this appears to be universal on ebay, but is common among used equipment dealers everywhere). That is simply not true. Traceability exists *only if* there is an unbroken chain of *accredited* measurements between the calibrated instrument and a primary standard. Calibration is one thing. Traceable calibration is another thing entirely, and virtually nothing you find on ebay is traceably calibrated regardless of what the seller says (or thinks). Best regards, Charles ps. For most products, Agilent uses different equipment to do the different levels of calibrations. (I cannot speak specifically to their VNA calibrations.) ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A
Robert wrote: I have to disagree on one point, You CAN do a TRACABLE calibration without any approval. What you can't do is ACCREDITED Calibration. Things may be different in the UK (after all, traceability is short for legal traceability, and the law of legal metrology may be different there), but in the US one of the necessary criteria for traceability is demonstrated competence. There may be a philosophical question whether competence can be demonstrated in some manner other than by accreditation, but there is no practical question. Universally (in the US), this is done by becoming accredited to the relevant ISO/IEC standard. Best regards, Charles ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A
Hi Charles, I've never heard of leagal Tracability in connection with calibration. Nist say NIST adopts for its own use and recommends for use by others the definition of metrological traceability2 provided in the most recent version of the International Vocabulary of Metrology: property of a measurement result whereby the result can be related to a reference through a documented unbroken chain of calibrations, each contributing to the measurement uncertanty (International Vocabulary of Metrology - Basic and General concepts and Associated Terms (VIM) No mention of accreditation there. Competence may be implied but it's not a requirement, Accreditation is typically a contractural obligation. I'm in the UK but do a lot of work to North American legislation. I've been quality manager of an FAA approved instrument shop. The biggest drivers for accreditation are quality systems like ISO9000 and AS9100. but they don't automatically improve quality. Companies overcalibrate lots of equipment. A good example is bench power supplies. An indication only sticker and use of a DMM when it's critical is all that is required. A similar misconeption is the requirement for portable appliance testing (PAT) in the UK. There is no requirement for testing, just an obligation to ensure equipment is safe. Having a test program does not reduce liability in the case of an accident. It's the insurance companies who want testing. It used to be a similar situation with UL approval in the USA, but that is changing as individual States bring in legislation. Robert G8RPI. From: Charles Steinmetz csteinm...@yandex.com To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement volt-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, 12 August 2013, 18:34 Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A Robert wrote: I have to disagree on one point, You CAN do a TRACABLE calibration without any approval. What you can't do is ACCREDITED Calibration. Things may be different in the UK (after all, traceability is short for legal traceability, and the law of legal metrology may be different there), but in the US one of the necessary criteria for traceability is demonstrated competence. There may be a philosophical question whether competence can be demonstrated in some manner other than by accreditation, but there is no practical question. Universally (in the US), this is done by becoming accredited to the relevant ISO/IEC standard. Best regards, Charles ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A
A calibration indicates that the unit under test is withing manufactures specification. The equipment and procedure used has to be good enough (bad words in a cal lab) to have a high probability (nothing is 100%) of insuring the calibration documentation is valid. Things can can be a little looser if you are calibrating a 1% meter with a 10 ppm meter but it does not work the other way around. On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Mike S mi...@flatsurface.com wrote: On 8/12/2013 12:21 PM, Charles Steinmetz wrote: No, you could not perform ANY traceable calibration with the 3458A itself, much less with any instrument you had calibrated with the 3458A, because *you* are not accredited That's simply not true. Some organizations may require a lab to be accredited in order to accept their services, but it is not a requirement in order to legitimately claim traceability. The NIST Traceability Policy is found here: http://www.nist.gov/**traceability/nist_**traceability_policy_external.** cfmhttp://www.nist.gov/traceability/nist_traceability_policy_external.cfm __**_ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/volt-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- John Phillips ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A
On 8/12/2013 2:23 PM, John Phillips wrote: A calibration indicates that the unit under test is withing manufactures specification. The equipment and procedure used has to be good enough (bad words in a cal lab) to have a high probability (nothing is 100%) of insuring the calibration documentation is valid. Things can can be a little looser if you are calibrating a 1% meter with a 10 ppm meter but it does not work the other way around. You can calibrate either way. You can't however, calibrate the 10 ppm meter so it's in spec using a 1% meter. That's different. Calibration merely means that it's documented how close it is to a reference, such as NIST, not that it's within the manufacturer's spec. The 10 ppm meter would end up with a 1%+ calibration - precise but not accurate. Not particularly useful, but valid. A good cal lab would do a calibration to specification, where the uncertainties place the 10 ppm meter within spec. As I cited and someone else already quoted, calibration is the property of a measurement result whereby the result can be related to a reference through a documented unbroken chain of calibrations, each contributing to the measurement uncertainty. Nothing to do with making a device meet its specifications. That's why an eBay seller can claim they'll do a calibration traceable to NIST, because they're not claiming any particular accuracy. It's really not worth anything, unless they give specific uncertainties or claim calibration to manufacturer's specification. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A
On 12 August 2013 17:43, Mike S mi...@flatsurface.com wrote: On 8/12/2013 12:21 PM, Charles Steinmetz wrote: No, you could not perform ANY traceable calibration with the 3458A itself, much less with any instrument you had calibrated with the 3458A, because *you* are not accredited That's simply not true. Some organizations may require a lab to be accredited in order to accept their services, but it is not a requirement in order to legitimately claim traceability. This is the conclusion I had reached. So it would appear to me quite easy to legitimately claim traceability to NIST. Others seem to disagree with this, and talk about accreditation and being able to meet original manufacturers specifications. I don't actually see this being a requirement myself, but I'm no expert. Of course, I would never attempt to calibrate a 8.5 digit laboratory multi-meter using a 4.5 digit handheld one, but there does not appear to be anything to stop me doing that, and furthermore claiming tractability to NIST. It is a bit like the engineer in England - anyone can call themselves an engineer, irrespective of how incompetent they are. I believe that is not so in some other countries. Dave ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A
Orin wrote: They send a calibration certificate which claims that their standards are traceable to NIST. I have no reason to doubt that. Owning standards and instruments with traceable calibrations is necessary but not sufficient for making traceable calibrations with them. For a calibration to be traceable, the lab that did the calibration must be accredited. If the lab is accredited, the calibration certificate would certainly identify the accrediting body. Does the certificate you received identify an accrediting body? Best regards, Charles ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A
Joe, I looked at the listing you posted. The unit looks very nice. However, the units are selling in the $150 - $250 range, although I note some of the units you linked to have sold for the price asked. There has been considerable discussion on the list about the 3457A and some differences between units, depending on serial number, having to do with the circuitry about the backup battery for the RAM. I would recommend you search the archives about that. Also, there are various options for the rear compartment that may or may not be useful so being able to see the back of the unit to see what is installed and what the serial number is would be useful. I prefer to use the original manufacturer's calibration services when it comes to Agilent or Fluke just to be able to eliminate the 'trust uncertainty' with 'outside labs', since I have little experience in using various calibration labs. Therefore, my choice would be to look for a desirable 'used' unit then clean it up myself, check the date on the backup battery and possibly change it (with the need to keep voltage applied to the unit while unsoldering the battery lest losing the CAL data - careful there - 'Danger, Danger, Will Robinson') then send it to Agilent for calibration ($204.22 for the Agilent Calibration). If you are looking for a currently supported unit, I would consider the Fluke 8846A. Can be had for under $1000. A bit more expensive but currently available and currently supported. Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Gray Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 9:20 PM To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A If I want to buy a used 3457A, is it better to buy one as-is and send it for calibration, or perhaps spend a bit more and get one already calibrated? Just one example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-3457A-6-5-Digit-Lab-Quality-Front-Terms-Fully-Ref urbished-NIST-Cal-/300928374155 Joe Gray W5JG ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A
I think the statement is awkward English, but what I think he is trying to say is that: 1) the instrument will be recalibrated 2) after the instrument is verified, by the calibration lab, to be working within specs, 3) a NIST traceable calibration certificate will be mailed. -Chuck Harris Charles Steinmetz wrote: Orrin wrote: Well, lets discuss the 3456A I got from goldenrubi, calibrated. They send a calibration certificate which claims that their standards are traceable to NIST. I have no reason to doubt that. I happened upon one of the seller's auctions, so I checked that one and several others. In the boilerplate of each one I found this: WE WILL RE-CALIBRATED THE UNIT BEFORE SHIPPING AND A NIST TRACEABLE CALIBRATION CERTIFICATE, WILL BE PROVIDED AFTER ITEM IS RECEIVED AND IS ACCEPTED AS WORKING WITH IN SPECS. WE WILL MAIL OUT THE CERTIFICATE. If I understand this correctly, I buy an instrument, the seller calibrates it before shipment, but doesn't send the calibration certificate with the item. He mails it to me after I accept[] [the instrument] as working within specs. So, I have to verify the calibration myself, and then this seller will send me a NIST traceable calibration certificate??? Words cannot express how irregular that sounds to me. I'd be interested to hear about any other NIST traceable calibration facility that works this way. Best regards, Charles ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A
They shipped the certificate with the 3456A I got from them. The cal certificate is from AAA Calibration Equipment Specialist Inc. at a SW Albuquerque address and is issued to AAA Equipment Resources Inc. at a NW Albuquerque address. I suspect some internal accounting reason or a defense against dishonest buyers for this. BTW, they don't list any accreditation on the certificate. I did once ask if they could cal an 8484A and they said no. As for the local labs here, I'm not happy with the local Tek lab that I sent my TDS210 to in its original packaging. They returned it in a small box with two layers of bubble wrap. The Fluke HQ and cal lab is twenty miles from here... I think that's about as good as it gets, so they might be getting my business in the future. Orin. On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 5:57 AM, Charles Steinmetz csteinm...@yandex.comwrote: Orrin wrote: Well, lets discuss the 3456A I got from goldenrubi, calibrated. They send a calibration certificate which claims that their standards are traceable to NIST. I have no reason to doubt that. I happened upon one of the seller's auctions, so I checked that one and several others. In the boilerplate of each one I found this: WE WILL RE-CALIBRATED THE UNIT BEFORE SHIPPING AND A NIST TRACEABLE CALIBRATION CERTIFICATE, WILL BE PROVIDED AFTER ITEM IS RECEIVED AND IS ACCEPTED AS WORKING WITH IN SPECS. WE WILL MAIL OUT THE CERTIFICATE. If I understand this correctly, I buy an instrument, the seller calibrates it before shipment, but doesn't send the calibration certificate with the item. He mails it to me after I accept[] [the instrument] as working within specs. So, I have to verify the calibration myself, and then this seller will send me a NIST traceable calibration certificate??? Words cannot express how irregular that sounds to me. I'd be interested to hear about any other NIST traceable calibration facility that works this way. Best regards, Charles __**_ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/volt-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A
On 11 August 2013 03:19, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: If I want to buy a used 3457A, is it better to buy one as-is and send it for calibration, or perhaps spend a bit more and get one already calibrated? Just one example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-3457A-6-5-Digit-Lab-Quality-Front-Terms-Fully-Refurbished-NIST-Cal-/300928374155 Joe Gray W5JG If you look at the feedback for the seller, you will find this auction# http://www.ebay.com/itm/221234066046 He bought one of the meters for $305. At first I see best offer accepted and no price. But if you print the auction to a PDF file, then look at the PDF, you will find the actual cost it sold at !! Funny thing was, after doing that I could see the price anyway, so perhaps I was mistaken first time I thought the price was a best offer. Anyway, he seems happy to buy at $305. so it might be worth sending him a mesage with a lower offer. Dave ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] HP 3457A
Orin wrote: The cal certificate is from AAA Calibration Equipment Specialist Inc. at a SW Albuquerque address and is issued to AAA Equipment Resources Inc. at a NW Albuquerque address. Those are both the seller: http://www.bizapedia.com/nm/AAA-CALIBRATION-EQUIPMENT-SPECIALIST-INC.html https://aaaequipmentresources.3dcartstores.com/crm.asp?action=contactus BTW, they don't list any accreditation on the certificate. As I suspected. So it is vanishingly unlikely that they do traceable calibrations, contrary to their claim. The Fluke HQ and cal lab is twenty miles from here... I think that's about as good as it gets, so they might be getting my business in the future. It's hard to do better than that. The Sandia Primary Standards Lab is right up there, too. Best regards, Charles ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
