Re: the political economy of energy distribution
Robin van Spaandonk wrote: In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Fri, 12 May 2006 00:19:02 -0500: Hi, [snip] The article does not say this, but I suspect something like capitalism will still be required. A percentage of energy tokens may go unused because many people may be happy to consume less than their alloted share. Energy is going to be almost too cheap to meter. The only eternally valid unit of exchange is the hour of work, since this is the only resource which we all value about equally. (The communists did get something right). Even in Star Trek they exchange shifts. IMO, as long as work, money, and energy consumption, are culturally linked the too cheap to meter dream will never be realised. Even if energy becomes 100 times less expensive, we, as individuals, will find ourselves consuming 100 times more energy. Harry
Re: the political economy of energy distribution
In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Fri, 12 May 2006 02:08:47 -0500: Hi, [snip] IMO, as long as work, money, and energy consumption, are culturally linked the too cheap to meter dream will never be realised. Even if energy becomes 100 times less expensive, we, as individuals, will find ourselves consuming 100 times more energy. [snip] That's why it's important that we learn to appreciate the value of efficiency before energy becomes too cheap to meter. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
Re: the political economy of energy distribution
At 02:08 am 12/05/2006 -0500, you wrote: IMO, as long as work, money, and energy consumption, are culturally linked the too cheap to meter dream will never be realised. Even if energy becomes 100 times less expensive, we, as individuals, will find ourselves consuming 100 times more energy. Harry Not so Harry. There are limits to the amount one can consume, whether it be food, drink or entertainment. Water is too cheap to meter, in Britain at any rate. I have a free bus pass for the whole of Greater London but the maximum I could use it would be 24 hours a day. Frank
Re: Stacked Washer Electrolyzer
The 1.5 inchOD, 1/4 inch I.D. Fender Washers have 10 square cm of surface area each side when placed over a 1/4 inch rod with 1/2 inch diameter spacers. About 100 Kohm resistance and about 65 Picofarad capacitance between 1.0 cm-spaced washers with 1.0 Megohm-cm water. Five Fenders spaced on a stick, a 12 volt AC-DC adaptor, a clear plastic pop bottle, and Wallah Water. Ergo ~ 3 volt per cell Brown's Gas etc? http://www.barnhillbolt.com/ All Thread Nylon Fiberglass Rod Nuts: http://www.barnhillbolt.com/index.php?root=menulevel=menu=101catid=-1custid=748308167 Fender Washers: http://www.barnhillbolt.com/specs/WasherFlatFender.htm
Electron Band Structure In Germanium, My Xss
This is for anyone who's ever struggled through a physics lab: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~kovar/hall.html I love the graphic. Especially the line drawn through the data points. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.Zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: Hybrids Not The Answer - Yet.
Jed Rothwell wrote: Zell, Chris wrote: Consumer Reports claims hybrid gas mileage is 19 mpg lower than the EPA says and are among the worst in mileage exaggeration. http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.aspx?contentid=4023460 But they are the best in mileage! According to the Consumer Reports list on this page! I think it's also worth noting that CU admits that they made a *mistake* in their comparison of hybrids with other cars. The added the extra depreciation _and_ the extra initial purchase cost to the cost of owning a hybrid, and so concluded that overall the hybrid was more expensive. In a response to a letter in a recent issue they stated that by erroneously double-counting the higher price they skewed it toward conventional vehicles; without the double-counting, the hybrids came out cheaper. I don't have the details but I might be able to find the issue if anyone cares. (And if I actually saw this in someone else's letter to Vortex, rather than in CU itself, then I will apologize and will feel intense embarrassment as penance.)
Heavy Argon, was: The Pappajo engine
... subtitled, where's the 'blip'? A blip being defined as a presumed insignificant phenomenon, especially a brief departure from the normal trend or curve - especially in statistical analysis and charting. - Original Message - From: Robin van Spaandonk Negative muons orbit at the Bohr radius (BR) * electron mass / muon mass. Hence hydrinohydride should try to do the same, Not necessarily, Robin. There is some evidence that leptons experience inertia (and gravity) differently than fermions. Mills even buys into that one. The point being that this is not an apples-to-apples comparison as the Bohr radius applies specifically to leptons. Either way, it is larger than the distance at which it should orbit. This leaves several possible scenarios:- 1) It sits snug against the nucleus at it's own radius. This can probably be ruled out because of the strong force... 2) It shares it's shrunken electrons with the other nucleus in a covalent bond at very small radius (don't know how big), but it would have to be smaller than it's own radius or there wouldn't be any energy benefit in forming the bond. This is more likely, especially with the very small radius being internal to normal smear of the argon - that is, if you accept a different kind of covalent bond - perhaps even one where the new k-shell itself comes from one electron and one hydrino hydride instead of the normal 2 electrons (or else the displacement of the other k-shell electron results in a see-saw reciprocating fashion, and this is what is favored in that particular atom. And the situation for the hydrino hydride involved in this particular situation may be such that it is NOT maximal shrinkage as you seem to be reverting to. Perhaps the shrinkage is either n=1/16 or 1/17 ... in the range of the maximum enthalpy. IOW maximum enthalpy instead of maximum shrinkage. Perhaps these are also the only ones which can easily escape - in the solar corona - that is: the hydrinos which are favored to be expelled in a solar-genesis situation, over geologic time. Lets see - at 1/16 the radius of the hydrino is a factor of 32,000 times reduced over the Bohr radius. Of course there are many other problems with this whole scenario - to wit: Mills has apparently collected gram-sized supplies of tightly bound K-Hy- (images on his web site) and we can assume from that situation that he has proven in so doing that the excess charge is nullified by the strong covalence (ionic -- covalent bonding), meaning that 20 total electrons remain in the compound; but can that be confused (in inertness) with the net 18 electrons of argon? i.e. instead of 20 of a normal hydride. The scenario we are getting at would be easier to pull-off starting with chlorine. For this to work out chemically with potassium, the 20 electrons must look like the 18 of Argon, no? That might be the expected outcome of an extremely tight bonding scenario... ...plus it provides another route to falsifiability - in that in a normal tank of Argon, where there are three stable isotopes: 36, 38, and 40 and with 40Ar accounting for 99.6% of the total - THEN - of that 99.6, the special-K component should have an extra mass of 2 electrons, compared with the real argon, no? Even with a ppm population of this heavier argon of special-K, there should be a blip on the mass-spec chart. We must also assume that the Hy- shrinkage in those samples Mills has collected is near the minimum (i.e they are much larger in radius - one or two steps of shrinkage) than the tiny size needed to gasify the atom into special-K which would be the Argon substitute. Bizarro! The real problem in the whole scenario seems to be to get a molecule to bond so tightly that it looks like a monatomic noble gas, correct? It is no wonder that NO mainstream scientist would touch this line of reasoning with a ten-foot pole ... until, that is, someone produces a mass-spec chart from a tank of argon showing that little blip of extra mass (about an MeV+ in total) ... and then of course, they [mainstream nay-sayers] will be back-peddling and claiming to associates: told you so... If you look at the actual geometry of the so-called orbitals of potassium and argon, then it might be possible to get a clue as to why K could possibly have this strong affinity for a hydrino hydride, and especially one of the optimum size (whether it be 16 or 24 or whatever steps). This whole quantum orbital image situation might even be amenable to modeling with some of the newer software packages which are out there. There is probably something about the symmetry of potassium that strongly favors the capture of this particular species based on the constraints of size and charge - and correspondingly there is probably something in the solar corona environment that favors the creation of this same species. If ... that is [the required caveat] there is any validity to the
Re: Electron Band Structure In Germanium, My Xss
OrionWorks wrote: This is for anyone who's ever struggled through a physics lab: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~kovar/hall.html I love the graphic. Especially the line drawn through the data points. First-rate, front to back! I loved this quote: This is how they treat undergrads around here: they give you broken tools and then don't understand why you don't get any results. It was explained to me, back when I was in college, that the biggest barrier to a physics degree was the junior physics lab, which one took in one's junior year. In that lab, one did things like demonstrate the Hall effect (non-trivial!), using nothing but outdated, obsolete, and/or broken equipment. The reason wasn't any lack of money (not at _that_ school). The reason, I was told, was that there were Too Many Physics Majors and Not Enough Physics Jobs. In consequence, the undergraduate physics program was made intentionally distasteful. And if, by some miracle, you got through the first two years without getting the message, you ran smack into the horrible h*** of the Junior Physics Lab, and if you got through _THAT_, then by golly you were *dedicated* and were eligible to be one of the chosen few. Me, personally, I wasn't, and I didn't... I gave it up as a bad deal halfway through the undergrad quantum course, which was awful. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.Zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: Heavy Argon, was: The Pappajo engine
Jones Beene sez: ... [side note] For those who are not older Americans, this phrase would be much more meaningful, if you had this mental image of an older lady, a grandmother perhaps (Clara Peeler), standing in line at a Wendy's-competitors hamburger joint, yelling where's the beef? BION, that soon-to-be-nauseating expert-on-everything: Wiki - does have an entry for now for where's the beef? I couldn't resist. With apologies to Mr. Beene. See: http://www.orionworks.com/artgal/svj/wheres_beef_m.htm Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: Hybrids Not The Answer - Yet.
At present, even defenders of hybrids seem to admit that over all cost savings from higher gas mileage - and apart from subsidies - mean you have to run them for 15 years or rack up an extreme amount of odometer mileage. Maintenance costs on such a new technology are likely to high , as well. - although constant speed gas engine might do very well as to lifetime between rebuilds. For God's sake, somebody throw a diesel in here! ( given the extreme longevity of some truck engines) The premium over the price of a regular car is a problem. I sincerely hope that it follows the path of VCRs - which dropped from $2000+ ( Cartivision from Sears) down to the present $80-90 at Walmart. If it doesn't drop, we've got a problem. When I see more energy used in the manufacture of hybrids, I mean all the costs of manufacture from raw materials upward , into finished parts - and I don't trust any academic estimates in this - only free markets can tell us the answer. ( Old Soviet joke: Gorbachev said that when Communism takes over the world, they will have to leave New Zealand alone, to get some idea of what prices should be!) What do we save in hybrid manufacture? No mechanical powertrain. What extra do we pay for? More batteries, more complex controls ( Asian factories can bring the cost down) , a big electric motor ( possibly combined with some braking generation). You still need an engine big enough to power the car up long hills, after the batteries give out. ( if this is not provided, I expect to see stalled hybrids on the shoulders of highways around Scranton, Pennsylvania - any one remember 30,000 lbs. Of Bananas by Harry Chapin?) If anyone can make this work ( $ -wise), I think Toyota can. Good Lord, is copper $4 a pound today? Jed Rothwell wrote: Zell, Chris wrote: Consumer Reports claims hybrid gas mileage is 19 mpg lower than the EPA says and are among the worst in mileage exaggeration. http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.aspx?contentid=4023460 But they are the best in mileage! According to the Consumer Reports list on this page! I think it's also worth noting that CU admits that they made a *mistake* in their comparison of hybrids with other cars. The added the extra depreciation _and_ the extra initial purchase cost to the cost of owning a hybrid, and so concluded that overall the hybrid was more expensive. In a response to a letter in a recent issue they stated that by erroneously double-counting the higher price they skewed it toward conventional vehicles; without the double-counting, the hybrids came out cheaper. I don't have the details but I might be able to find the issue if anyone cares. (And if I actually saw this in someone else's letter to Vortex, rather than in CU itself, then I will apologize and will feel intense embarrassment as penance.)
RE: Electron Band Structure In Germanium, My Xss
Yeah, that was very funny, thanks. It sounded like Alex Doonsebury selected this college, and after a steady diet of ideal current sources and gedanken wankin' has just been tasked with making a real measurement. Ouch. I remember taking a biology course as an undergrad; we had to dissect something and all I could discern was a blob of undifferentiated muck. My lab partner had a nice collection of little organs on his tray. I then proceeded to take all the old creature parts laying about the lab and build up my own new creature, at which point I realized I was really better suited to some kind of engineering than the life sciences. K. -Original Message- From: Stephen A. Lawrence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 11:57 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electron Band Structure In Germanium, My Xss OrionWorks wrote: This is for anyone who's ever struggled through a physics lab: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~kovar/hall.html I love the graphic. Especially the line drawn through the data points. First-rate, front to back! I loved this quote: This is how they treat undergrads around here: they give you broken tools and then don't understand why you don't get any results. It was explained to me, back when I was in college, that the biggest barrier to a physics degree was the junior physics lab, which one took in one's junior year. In that lab, one did things like demonstrate the Hall effect (non-trivial!), using nothing but outdated, obsolete, and/or broken equipment. The reason wasn't any lack of money (not at _that_ school). The reason, I was told, was that there were Too Many Physics Majors and Not Enough Physics Jobs. In consequence, the undergraduate physics program was made intentionally distasteful. And if, by some miracle, you got through the first two years without getting the message, you ran smack into the horrible h*** of the Junior Physics Lab, and if you got through _THAT_, then by golly you were *dedicated* and were eligible to be one of the chosen few. Me, personally, I wasn't, and I didn't... I gave it up as a bad deal halfway through the undergrad quantum course, which was awful. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.Zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: the political economy of energy distribution
Grimer wrote: At 02:08 am 12/05/2006 -0500, you wrote: IMO, as long as work, money, and energy consumption, are culturally linked the too cheap to meter dream will never be realised. Even if energy becomes 100 times less expensive, we, as individuals, will find ourselves consuming 100 times more energy. Harry Not so Harry. There are limits to the amount one can consume, whether it be food, drink or entertainment. Water is too cheap to meter, in Britain at any rate. I have a free bus pass for the whole of Greater London but the maximum I could use it would be 24 hours a day. Frank Certainly consumption of food and drink is limited, but you are overlooking advances in technology, which allow one to travel faster and faster, move more and more rock, build higher and higher, etc... We wanted our wedding to be very special. So we had it on Mars, in a full size replica of the Taj Mahal which we built ourselves. Harry
Re: the political economy of energy distribution
Harry Veeder wrote: Grimer wrote: At 02:08 am 12/05/2006 -0500, you wrote: IMO, as long as work, money, and energy consumption, are culturally linked the too cheap to meter dream will never be realised. Even if energy becomes 100 times less expensive, we, as individuals, will find ourselves consuming 100 times more energy. Harry Not so Harry. There are limits to the amount one can consume, whether it be food, drink or entertainment. Water is too cheap to meter, in Britain at any rate. I have a free bus pass for the whole of Greater London but the maximum I could use it would be 24 hours a day. Frank Certainly consumption of food and drink is limited, but you are overlooking advances in technology, which allow one to travel faster and faster, move more and more rock, build higher and higher, etc... We wanted our wedding to be very special. So we had it on Mars, in a full size replica of the Taj Mahal which we built ourselves. Harry For related imagery see: http://www.canadianarchitect.com/asf/enclosure_detailing/detailing_basics/de tailing_basics.htm Harry
Re: Hybrids Not The Answer - Yet.
-Original Message- From: Zell, Chris If anyone can make this work ( $ -wise), I think Toyota can. Toyota had better watch their back: http://vvcars.com/ Terry ___ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com
Re: the political economy of energy distribution
-Original Message- From: Harry VeederFor related imagery see: http://www.canadianarchitect.com/asf/enclosure_detailing/detailing_basics /de tailing_basics.htm http://tinyurl.com/nt96n One image caption: Pipe fitting robots at work ? notice the pleasant absence of plumber?s butt. :-) Terry ___ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com
Betteries
Betteries everywhere! http://www.europositron.com/en/index.html Electric car of General Motors, EV 1 uses 736kg batteries giving max. range 145 km without recharge. A battery of 60 kg made with Europositron technology allows EV 1 max. range 870 km without recharge. ___ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com
Betteries
Sounds interesting. But is there any proof that this is anything except a European a stock scam? Right on their front page they are asking people to buy shares. I would be very skeptical of fantastic claims like these, especially when they are clearly promoting stock sales. Having a 500 miles per charge aluminum battery would be great. But are these people playing straight? If it sounds too good to be true, then .. Stock scams usually rotate into hot sectors. Back in the 1990s most scams were internet companies. After 9/11 a lot of scams were homeland security related. Now with energy making headlines, get ready for an old stock market scam, wildly exaggerated or blatantly fraudulent energy claims. Energy is one of the favorites of scamsters, because the implications for a new energy device that takes the world by storm are enormous.
Lunar FE?
http://www.thothweb.com/article-3001--0-0.html ___ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com
Re: Betteries
20% efficient is fine if it gets 500 miles per charge. The problem with this battery claim is that it is so much better than current technology, about 2 to 4 times better, that you have to be suspicious of such a fantastic claim. I was also suspicious of the fact that they are openly selling stock on their website (red flag). I'll have to read up on this new battery claim. I reserve judgement. - Original Message - From: Zell, Chris To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:45 PM Subject: RE: Betteries Sounds interesting. But is there any proof that this is anything except a European a stock scam? Right on their front page they are asking people to buy shares. I would be very skeptical of fantastic claims like these, especially when they are clearly promoting stock sales. Having a 500 miles per charge aluminum battery would be great. But are these people playing straight? If it sounds too good to be true, then . I think the fine printon this battery tells you that it may be only 20+% efficient, unless they've improved it. Maybethe waste heat could go to agreenhouse or something.
FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday May 12, 2006
Forward by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Akira Kawasaki) [Original Message] From: What's New [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 5/12/2006 1:29:22 PM Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday May 12, 2006 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 12 May 06 Washington, DC 1. PRAY FOR CONGRESS: IN EVERY WAR, BOTH SIDES PRAY FOR VICTORY. Yesterday, the House passed a $513B defense authorization bill. The bill included language allowing military chaplains to pray according to the dictates of the chaplain's own conscience. Current rules call for nonsectarian prayers, or a moment of silence, at mandatory public gatherings. Focus on the Family, The Christian Coalition, and other evangelical Christian groups had urged the President to issue an executive order guaranteeing the right of chaplains to pray in the name of Jesus. When Bush failed to act, Republicans on Armed Services added the provision to the defense authorization bill. An amendment offered in committee by Rep. Steve Israel (D-NY), calling on chaplains to show sensitivity, respect and tolerance for all faiths, was defeated on a party-line vote. Rules did not allow floor debate. 2. PREYING ON THE VOTERS: FLAW FOUND IN TOUCH-SCREEN MACHINES. The most severe security flaw ever found in a voting system has been discovered by a Finnish expert working for a non-profit group. A professor of computer science at Johns Hopkins told the NY Times that he, almost had a heart attack, when he learned of the problem. This was not some innocent design error that wasn't caught. Diebold, the company that makes the machines, built in a secret back door to update the software. It could be opened in minutes if someone knows the code. Don't worry, the code is a proprietary secret of Diebold. Of course, there was that 2003 fund-raising letter to Ohio Republicans from the Diebold CEO that said, I am committed to helping Ohio deliver its votes to the President http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN03/wn121203.html . 3. SPACE: THE ONLY THING IN NASA THAT STILL GOES UP IS THE COST. Michael Griffin told his science advisory committee this week that he could not keep the commitment he made a year ago not to shift money from science to human space flight. I wasn't on the committee, but I tried to imagine how it might have gone if I had been. MG: The problem is the ISS. RP: What problem? MG: We have to finish it by 2010. RP: Why is that a problem? MG: Because the shuttle doesn't work. RP: If we fix the shuttle and finish the ISS, what do we do next? MG: We drop the ISS in the ocean. RP: Why don't we do that now? MG: Because we must honor our commitment to our ISS partners first. RP: But what about your commitment to space science? MG: That will have to wait until we get back from Mars. RP: We're going to Mars? MG: When we get back from the moon. RP: We're going to the moon? MG: Just as soon as we build a new spacecraft. RP: What's holding that up? MG: The problem is the ISS. 4. BIGFOOT RENDEZVOUS: THERE IS NOT A LOT TO DO IN POCATELLO. But we are told that Bigfoot aficionados from across the country will be there June 16-18. The press release came from the University Relations Office at Utah State University. Can we get extra credit for this? THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org What's New is moving to a different listserver and our subscription process has changed. To change your subscription status please visit this link: http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnewA=1
Re: Burning Water, 5,500 BTU/LB Freebie
No magic ingredients, just Autoionization and the Helmholtz Double-Layer Reduction-OxidationEffect of High Purity Water on a sufficient large anode-cathode metal surface area with a current return path. 2 H2O --- OH -+ H3O+ Cathode H3O + + e- - H2O + H (gas) Anode OH - - e- -- OH (gas) ICE Combustion H + OH - H2O + 226,000 joule/gram-mole = 12,555 joule/gram = 12 BTU/gram = 5,500BTU/LB
Re: Betteries
In reply to Zell, Chris's message of Fri, 12 May 2006 15:45:53 -0500: Hi, [snip] I think the fine print on this battery tells you that it may be only 20+% efficient, unless they've improved it. Maybe the waste heat could go to a greenhouse or something. [snip] Where did you find the fine print? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
Re: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday May 12, 2006
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. SPACE: THE ONLY THING IN NASA THAT STILL GOES UP IS THE COST. Michael Griffin told his science advisory committee this week that he could not keep the commitment he made a year ago not to shift money from science to human space flight. I wasn't on the committee, but I tried to imagine how it might have gone if I had been. MG: The problem is the ISS. RP: What problem? MG: We have to finish it by 2010. RP: Why is that a problem? MG: Because the shuttle doesn't work. RP: If we fix the shuttle and finish the ISS, what do we do next? MG: We drop the ISS in the ocean. RP: Why don't we do that now? MG: Because we must honor our commitment to our ISS partners first. RP: But what about your commitment to space science? MG: That will have to wait until we get back from Mars. RP: We're going to Mars? MG: When we get back from the moon. RP: We're going to the moon? MG: Just as soon as we build a new spacecraft. RP: What's holding that up? MG: The problem is the ISS. It really pi$$es me off when Parks makes sense. ;-) Terry ___ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com
Re: Betteries
-Original Message- From: John Coviello Sounds interesting. But is there any proof that this is anything except a European a stock scam? http://www.frost.com/prod/servlet/press-release.pag?docid=34239544 ___ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com
Re: Burning Water, 5,500 BTU/LB Freebie
Quite obviously a high compression engine (spark or diesel ignition) operated closed-cycle using Argon in the manner that Caltech used it, will work as well as theirs except that the low pressure high Metal-Water Interface surface area and a higher Ion Product Constant Autoionization Self Electrolysis of warmer water ( low current battery bias) will negate the need for electrolyzing the re-circulated H2O. - Original Message - From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 5/12/2006 4:28:58 PM Subject: Re: Burning Water, 5,500 BTU/LB Freebie No magic ingredients, just Autoionization and the Helmholtz Double-Layer Reduction-OxidationEffect of High Purity Water on a sufficient large anode-cathode metal surface area with a current return path. 2 H2O --- OH -+ H3O+ Cathode H3O + + e- - H2O + H (gas) Anode OH - - e- -- OH (gas) ICE Combustion H + OH - H2O + 226,000 joule/gram-mole = 12,555 joule/gram = 12 BTU/gram = 5,500BTU/LB
Re: Betteries
It's a bet, a gamble as is all stock. Somebody will put up 2 mil to learn if a prototype can be built. If it is built, some more mney will be needed to learn if it works. Then some more money will be needed to see it it will hold up in service, then more money needed to sell liscenses and finally more money needed to make money. Everything screams the idea is great. .If it is for real, the Koreans will be making a knockoff in China before the poor Finn get started. Thats the way business works in the real world. I have a rubber band motor that will be a winner.. Lets see... Frost and Sullivan may be the people to contact. They are hand holders for a fee. Richard - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 7:35 PM Subject: Re: Betteries -Original Message- From: John Coviello Sounds interesting. But is there any proof that this is anything except a European a stock scam? http://www.frost.com/prod/servlet/press-release.pag?docid=34239544 ___ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com
Re: Burning Water, 5,500 BTU/LB Freebie
FWIW, department. The 4.6 eV work function of Nickel is close to the 4.52 eV work function of Tungsten, but the Amp/Meter^2/Deg^2 is half the 6.0E5 for Tungsten. OTOH, with a Helmholtz Double Layer Zeta Potential of 0.125 volts at the Water-Nickel Interface. which is comparable to a Boltzman temperature of 1450 K based 11600 K/eV. IOW with the right surface conditions of the metal "cold electron donation" of the metal to the H3O+ or H+ is possible. Likewise for the donation of the OH- electron to the image charge on the Nickel Anode especially if the electrodes are "pre-biased" using Contact Potential (about 0.21 volts for Iron-Nickel or Copper-Nickel 0.3 volts). - Original Message - From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 5/12/2006 7:06:58 PM Subject: Re: Burning Water, 5,500 BTU/LB Freebie Quite obviously a high compression engine (spark or diesel ignition) operated closed-cycle using Argon in the manner that Caltech used it, will work as well as theirs except that the low pressure high Metal-Water Interface surface area and a higher Ion Product Constant Autoionization Self Electrolysis of warmer water ( low current battery bias) will negate the need for electrolyzing the re-circulated H2O. - Original Message - From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 5/12/2006 4:28:58 PM Subject: Re: Burning Water, 5,500 BTU/LB Freebie No magic ingredients, just Autoionization and the Helmholtz Double-Layer Reduction-OxidationEffect of High Purity Water on a sufficient large anode-cathode metal surface area with a current return path. 2 H2O --- OH -+ H3O+ Cathode H3O + + e- - H2O + H (gas) Anode OH - - e- -- OH (gas) ICE Combustion H + OH - H2O + 226,000 joule/gram-mole = 12,555 joule/gram = 12 BTU/gram = 5,500BTU/LB
