RE: [Vo]: New Segway Products
uh, Nick? I can't speak for all of my fellow stupid, under-educated, over-propagandized redneck fundamentalist Christian heartlanders but you have left the bounds of civility and are treading on the rules of this list with your insults. Iraq is nothing more than *basic* military positioning to protect energy interests in the region. Period. Anyone who wants to make it anything more than that is either ignorant, naive, or a self-loathing masochist. Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen to strategically enter the pacific theater. 911 was allowed to happen to strategically enter the mid-east theater. Oil is a pillar of the world economy and civilization as we know it. America can never leave the region until either the oil or the need for it is gone. Soak it in, accept it. This topic has already been over analyzed and pontificated upon extensively, ad nauseum. I am not going to retype what has already been typed go read the frigg'n archive yourself. -j ---Original Message- From: Nick Palmer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 5:26 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: New Segway Products It was only the stupid, under-educated over-propagandised redneck fundamentalist Christian heartlands that wanted this new crusade.
[Vo]: ethanol production
Harry Tuttle posted; The amount of corn required to produce 25 gallons of ethanol can feed a human in the third world for a whole year. True however, the story I heard, is that the ethanol production only consumes some of the starch in the corn. What remains has a higher feed value than the raw corn. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---
Re: [Vo]: New Segway Products
In reply to John Steck's message of Fri, 18 Aug 2006 01:23:16 -0500: Hi, [snip] Iraq is nothing more than *basic* military positioning to protect energy interests in the region. Period. Anyone who wants to make it anything more than that is either ignorant, naive, or a self-loathing masochist. Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen to strategically enter the pacific theater. 911 was allowed to happen to strategically enter the mid-east theater. Oil is a pillar of the world economy and civilization as we know it. America can never leave the region until either the oil or the need for it is gone. Soak it in, accept it. [snip] As concise descriptions go, this is pretty good. I would say that there are a few ancillary issues around the edges, but this certainly covers the core quite well. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
Re: [Vo]: Magnetron application to water vortex
In reply to RC Macaulay's message of Thu, 17 Aug 2006 07:36:14 -0500: Hi, [snip] BlankHowdy Vorts, We have made several modifications to our test setup and can produce a very stable eyewall in the water vortex. Suggestions made regarding applying a pair of magnetrons aimed at the vortex have been intriguing. I have some pdf pics of the test setup including a pic of trhe actual eye produced. Before we fabricate a stainless steel container for further testing, we would welcome input on ideas for the mounting of the megnetrons. Being a bunch of Vorts.. your ideas and suggestions may be as completely wild as you wish grin Yes, we know a microwave cannot be aimed or focused... thats why we have to do it. [snip] ...surely radar does this all the time. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
Re: [Vo]: [OT] Strong UN (was Re: New Segway Products)
In reply to Michel Jullian's message of Wed, 16 Aug 2006 12:30:33 +0200: Hi, [snip] (Robin your reply was private, but considering the contents I assume it's ok to answer on-list) Good point, but even so don't you think it would be a better solution than letting the fighting parties, who are necessarily biased, decide who are the bad guys and what should be done to them? Michel [snip] This is a difficult issue. I suspect that a better (though imperfect) solution would be an international court, but leave the policing in the hands of individual nations (which with the recent introduction of the International Criminal Court, is more or less what is being done). I would take issue with having both policing and courts under one roof, so to speak. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
Re: [Vo]: Re: Air Independent Closed Cycle Diesel
OTOH, would it be simpler to use the non-condensible O2 as the working fluid, vent excess O2, and save the condensate in a holding tank? I haven't figured out yet what happens with steam when it's compressed at a 10-22 to 1 compression ratio which puts it at temperatures above the critical point. Fred From: Frederick Sparber Terry wrote. Geeze, Fred, It's hard enough to enforce illegal immigration as it is! Actually I'm thinking that using 250 F (15 PSI) steam as a working fluid in place of air or Argon in a two-cycle diesel in a Stainless Steamer (or ceramics?) using the 2 HOOH 2 H2O + O2 plus 210 kJ reaction.. It's easy to separate the O2 gas from steam condensate using off-the-shelf steam plumbing. Fred Terry
Re: [Vo]: Re: Air Independent Closed Cycle Diesel
Robin wrote: they used it to power torpedos Is there any difference between a HOOH powered torpedo or cruise missile, and a modified 57 Chevy zipping along at 90 miles per hour, Robin ? Fred
[Vo]: Re: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Vo]: New Segway Products
Kyle - read John Berry's post. Be ashamed of being American. If you're not, then it is people like you who are the problem that needs solving. Kyle wrote:- Would you prefer the nice red-black-white swastika as your flag instead of your current one? America only really came in when it seemed as if there might be a threat to them (the Japanese), not earlier when they were asked by those threatened by Germany. Elements in your Government are on record as claiming that a European war had nothing to do with them, so why should they help. Thanks, Yanks - not. Incidentally, one of my first memories of the States when visiting America was going to a motel where the owner had a shrine to Hitler and the red,black and white flag visible in the living room behind the reception desk. Seeing my raised eyebrows she said that he (Hitler) had been misrepresented and that the holocaust was a lie told by those dirty Jews to blacken his name (this was in liberal California!) BTW, I didn't find the room suitable and went elsewhere... Kyle Wrote:- Incidentally, the prominent Democrats in our (so-called) government wanted it just as badly as anyone else did. If you don't realize this, you either didn't watch the news clips of them demanding that we attack Iraq, or are far lower on the scale of education than the so-called under-educated you speak of above Both Republican and Democrats (and Tony Blair) were misled by so called intelligence that claimed that Saddam had developed weapons of mass destruction that could be armed and ready to go in 45 minutes. As Saddam had fired Scud missiles at Israel (to encourage support from the Arab nations during the first Gulf war) this was seen as giving an imperative to stop his regime. WMD fired at Israel would have probably caused the Israelis to use their nukes and ignite the whole middle East. The intelligence was wrong (maybe deliberately so. Any person educated in the history of the US would put almost nothing past your intelligence services - whether they are incompetent, stupid or just plain evil remains to be proved). Absolutely no-one is claiming that Saddam's regime was in any way good, but there are many similar or worse regimes in the world that not only has the USA done nothing to overturn but has also positively encouraged (see John Berry's post again). The rhetoric about spreading democracy and freedom by military intervention is close to being one of the all time most evil big lies ever told. I did not know that piece John Berry quotes about the US's prior messing with Afghanistan that apparently precipitated the Soviet invasion. It sounds very possible. When I was growing up, the biggest scare was the Cuban missile crisis around 1961/62 when those rascally Commies were threatening the forces of good by stationing nuclear weapons on Cuban soil. No-one at all at the time (apart from the socialist underground media) reported that that was a response to the US stationing nuclear weapons on (I think it was ) Turkish soil pointing at Moscow. What was portrayed to the public as evil Russian aggression and expansionism was merely tit for tat strategy to a tactic thought up and executed by the paranoid good ole' boys of the USA.
Re: [Vo]: New Segway Products
Currently, America and Israel are the greatest threats to world stability with China a fair way behind. Elements of power in both America and Israel have still got this Us first, and only us mentality. So if the Israelis had lit a big bonfire and destroyed their arms in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, etc., etc., - or if they did so now, the world would be a better/safer place - all hugs and kisses? The stability you talk about is the same kind of stability that you get when dogma - scientific or otherwise - rules. It's the stability of the grazing herd. Nothing of value is accomplished through this kind of deadness. ...accurate TV portrayal of the base character of too many Americans... Now there's an interesting oxymoron - accurate TV portrayal. You need to get out and see life a little more. Look, I'm not American, but I resent that crap. There are nice Americans and not-so-nice Americans. I've had dealings with many and have enjoyed the experiences greatly. That's a lot better food for thought than watching staged TV propaganda. P. At 11:25 AM 8/17/2006 +0100, you wrote: Kyle wrote:- If it gets so far gone that we have had Islamic radicals detonate nuclear weapons on our (American) soil, hopefully someone will have the guts to retaliate massively. Or, to clarify, nuke the whole bloody place It's not a place so you can't target it, Kyle. It's an idea. There are countries where the idea is more concentrated but if you wish to wipe out the idea with nukes then you have to vaporise just about the whole world. Most of the suicide bombers and extremists who attend the legendary training camps come from outside the countries where the camps are supposed to be located. The recent plot in Britain to smuggle liquid explosive on to planes bound for the US was entirely staffed by British residents. Would you nuke Britain too? Most of the 911 terrorists/freedom fighters (depending on which side of the fence you are) were Saudis. The US backed Saudi dynasty (which is so extremely close to the Bush regime) is a MAJOR cause of the Islamic resentment. Osama's own family are a part of it and probably caused his extreme beliefs and so he is now pursuing jihad as some kind of twisted family therapy. If the US had stopped backing this regime many events would not have occurred. But they didn't. Like characters from Jackass, that accurate TV portrayal of the base character of too many Americans, the unpleasant, idiot jerks continued on. Change the bullying, greedy, America first way of politics and the problem will solve itself. Currently, America and Israel are the greatest threats to world stability with China a fair way behind. Elements of power in both America and Israel have still got this Us first, and only us mentality. Most of your West and East coasts were against the Iraq invasion in the first place. It was only the stupid, under-educated over-propagandised redneck fundamentalist Christian heartlands that wanted this new crusade. In the history of many of the older nations there was this colonialist view. Britain, Germany, Japan, France Portugal, Spain, Russia did it. We all fell for this we are the most important country rhetoric. Hopefully we have now grown up. For God's sake America, grow up too. Nick Palmer
Re: [Vo]: New Segway Products
Philip Winestone wrote:- ...accurate TV portrayal of the base character of too many Americans... Now there's an interesting oxymoron - accurate TV portrayal. You need to get out and see life a little more. The sister of my step son's wife has just come out of the British Army after serving in Iraq until a few weeks ago. We had dinner with her two days ago. She was seriously unimpressed at the morals or education or basic niceness of too many US grunts even compared to the Brit grunts - she was scared at the spoken motivations of some US officers. I have been to American BBQs and heard the drunken deeper beliefs of too many Yanks. I lived in America for three months meeting people from all over America. Those with uber faith and/or patriotism are dangerous and there are too many of them who claim my country, right or wrong. In the sixties the opposition used to say my country, right or wrong - when right, to be kept right - when wrong, to be put right. Look, I'm not American, but I resent that crap. There are nice Americans and not-so-nice Americans It's not crap, sadly. As I said elsewhere, we are necessarily writing in shorthand. Your response shows that you are responding to a logical fallacy. You appear to believe that I said that all Americans are rubbish and you are pointing out that not all are. Clearly, there are many who are educated, historically aware and against what your Government has done, and is still doing. As the US claims to be a democracy, this means that the majority will of the people has and is being served by this long term selfish messing about with the world. Go and figure out if I am wrong when I slate too many Americans - count them for yourself.
Re: [Vo]: New Segway Products
Nick Palmer wrote: In the sixties the opposition used to say my country, right or wrong - when right, to be kept right - when wrong, to be put right. The 1860s, you mean. That is a quote from Carl Schurz (1829-1906), a German revolutionary, a U.S. reformer and a Union general in the Civil War. Actually, he said that in 1872. - Jed
[Vo]: Re: Magnetron application to water vortex
Richard, I think I mentioned this before in a private email, but one possible tactic for what you want to do is to set up two standing waves in your vortex chamber, which overlap. There should be a focusing effect in the overlappingnodes of the standing waves. Lets say you are using two magnetrons which have a wavelength of5 inches, which is about what the standard oven-magnetron produces (2.35 GHz). The ideal situation would be a "waveguide" which is your vortex chamber, which is two (or four wavelengths long). This would be a smaller size than your present size, which is a large vortex machine.The "tube"can be rectangular, rather than round. The two magnetrons are mounted at 1/3 and 2/3 the total tube length. For a 20 inch tube, you would have them at 6 2/3 and 13 1/3 inches from one end. These will produce standing waves with 8 nodes of overlap. Better yet, this may be a good time to hire a consultant who is specialist in microwaves g.There are probably lots of these around Austin. Jones - Original Message - From: RC Macaulay To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 5:36 AM Subject: [Vo]: Magnetron application to water vortex Howdy Vorts, We have made several modifications to our test setup andcan producea very stable eyewall in the water vortex. Suggestions made regarding applying a pair of magnetronsaimed at the vortex have been intriguing. I have some pdf pics of the test setup including a pic of trhe actual " eye" produced. Before wefabricate a stainless steel container for further testing, we would welcome input on ideas for the mounting of the megnetrons. Being a bunch of Vorts.. your ideas and suggestions may be as completely wild as you wish grin Yes, we know a microwave cannot be "aimed" or focused... thats why wehave to do it. Ask me and I will send you the two pics to view. Richard
[Vo]: What's The Deal With Steorn?
These Irish guys are claiming to have discovered free energy and have challenged the world by putting an ad in the Economist to evaluate their stuff. One of their patents is WO2006035419 but I can't get espace to open the document. Is this a version of Bearden's MEG all over again?
[Vo]: Steorn.net
I think it's www.steorn.net
Re: [Vo]: Re: Magnetron application to water vortex
True ... but just as all the clocks in a clock store line-up in phase, on their own (like magic ?) one would expect microtrons, especially if wired in parallel, to do the same, no? - Original Message - From: Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Magnetron application to water vortex On 8/18/06, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Richard, I think I mentioned this before in a private email, but one possible tactic for what you want to do is to set up two standing waves in your vortex chamber, which overlap. There should be a focusing effect in the overlapping nodes of the standing waves. But if the two sources are not phase synchronous, the nodes will skittle about. Terry
Re: [Vo]: Re: Magnetron application to water vortex
On 8/18/06, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True ... but just as all the clocks in a clock store line-up in phase, on their own (like magic ?) one would expect microtrons, especially if wired in parallel, to do the same, no? Not really. The resonant frequency of the microwave cavity will vary with the mechanical variations in the device. The frequencies have to be exact to be phase synchronous. Terry
Re: [Vo]: What's The Deal With Steorn?
On 8/18/06, Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope, more like a Sprain Magmo. Here's the gist: http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/storn.jpg This should allow you to view the patent: http://tinyurl.com/h8po9 Terry
Re: [Vo]: What's The Deal With Steorn?
On 8/18/06, Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/18/06, Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope, more like a Sprain Magmo. Here's the gist: http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/storn.jpg This should allow you to view the patent: http://tinyurl.com/h8po9 If that doesn't work for you, here's the whole kit: http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/WO2006035419A1.pdf Terry
Re: [Vo]: Steorn.net
On 8/18/06, Zell, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's www.steorn.net Yeah, it made Reuters: http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=scienceNewsstoryID=2006-08-17T231302Z_01_L17772156_RTRUKOC_0_US-TECHNOLOGY-ENERGY.xmlWTmodLoc=NewsHome-C3-scienceNews-2 http://tinyurl.com/hcfw7 Terry
Re: [Vo]: New Segway Products
Philip Winestone wrote: The stability you talk about is the same kind of stability that you get when dogma - scientific or otherwise - rules. It's the stability of the grazing herd. Nothing of value is accomplished through this kind of deadness. Propaganda. Do you think meaningful change ONLY happens through violence? e.g. Canada did not take the America path to independence. Harry
Re: [Vo]: Steorn.net
Terry Blanton wrote: On 8/18/06, Zell, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's www.steorn.net Yeah, it made Reuters: This is very sad. I do not understand the mindset of inventors who do this kind of thing, and say, . . . until this thing is validated by science we won't be doing anything commercial with it . . . That is nonsense. Inventors often say this, but they are wrong, and they have missed the point. Or three points: 1. Science is not a monolithic institution. There is no one single source of validation, and no unity of opinion. 2. As things stand, mainstream science institutions and researchers will never look at this gadget or validate it. Even if one did, he would never admit to himself or anyone else that what he saw was real. That simply will not happen and anyone who thinks he can trigger such an event with an advertisement in a newspaper is a pathetic fool. 3. You do not need science to validate something like this; you need a dozen or so good engineers. If the people with this gadget could convince 10 or 20 people on this list that the machine is real beyond any doubt, word would soon spread and someone with money would show up at their door. In the first phase, you need only convince your friends and people who are inclined to be sympathetic. You can ignore your enemies until later. - Jed
[Vo]: Message from Amini
August 2, 2006 From: f.amini [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Jed Rothwell' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Cold Fusion- New Paper Dear Mr. Rothwell, I hope you are well. I have recently written a paper titled' Cold Fusion by Jet Plasma Process in Hydro Machinery' in 18 pages. The purpose of the paper is to study the process of Plasma formation on the surface of runner blades when a hydro turbine operates at partial condition. By comparing the theoretical and measured power of turbine, it is revealed that energy and hydrogen are generated by the Plasma process. The investigation on several turbines of various hydro power plants vividly reveals that plasma process in hydro machinery generates hydrogen. In future, it may be possible to design hydro turbines based on the plasma process that generates hydrogen; or there may exist turbines that rotate with a mixture of hydrogen and water energies. It is tried to present any required data to verify this issue. Now, I would like to know how I could have this paper reviewed to verify the claims in the paper. Please provide your advice. Best regards Farzan Amini
[Vo]: FW: [4DWorldx] FW: [Vo]: ethanol production
Forwarded from 4dworldx. Harry Forwarded from Vortex-L Harry The amount of corn required to produce 25 gallons of ethanol can feed a human in the third world for a whole year. Thomas: True however, the story I heard, is that the ethanol production only consumes some of the starch in the corn. What remains has a higher feed value than the raw corn. Yes it has but it is not usable as raw food anymore. Recent technologies, slowly adapted in the US ( Xethanol, Pacific ethanol, and some more ) allow for a higher efficiency of producing ethanol from starch, but this won't solve the problem as this method consumes about as much of primary energy as is contained in the ethanol - factor is 1.5 i.e. for 1.5 kwh ethanol energy one has to invest 1 kwh primary energy. Possibly the way to go is a quite old process of coal liquification ( Fischer-Tropsch or Nazi gasoline ) because the world sits , in terms of thermal units, on far more coal than on oil. South African company Sasol produces about 40% of the country's demand of gas from coal for about 1.3 US$/gallon ( premium grade ). Stocks of coal miners ( Peabody, Arch coal, Massey, James River ) are expected to rise. Hans Dieter
Re: [Vo]: Steorn.net
Terry Blanton wrote: On 8/18/06, Zell, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's www.steorn.net Yeah, it made Reuters: http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=scienceNewsstoryID=2006-0 8-17T231302Z_01_L17772156_RTRUKOC_0_US-TECHNOLOGY-ENERGY.xmlWTmodLoc=NewsHome -C3-scienceNews-2 http://tinyurl.com/hcfw7 Terry The advertisement in the Economist can be downloaded here: http://www.steorn.net/en/downloads.aspx?p=6 Harry
Re: [Vo]: Message from Amini
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:56:58 -0400: Hi, [snip] Now, I would like to know how I could have this paper reviewed to verify the claims in the paper. Please provide your advice. [snip] Perhaps the author doesn't consider Vortex to be an adequate review panel, but personally, I would love to see the paper. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
Re: [Vo]: Steorn.net
On 8/18/06, Zell, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's www.steorn.net Grimer is still on the international filter list. --- Grimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 18:48:32 +0100 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Vo]: Steorn.net At 11:01 am 18/08/2006 -0500, Zell wrote: I think it's www.steorn.net It was. I've has a look at their website and they seem pretty plausible. Let's hope they have made the breakthrough in harnessing the Beta-atmosphere magnetic wind. I shall certainly follow developments with full attention. They seem to be taking the path that Jed recommends - which is good. Cheers, Frank Grimer P.S. This was bounced from Vortex so I'm sending it via you Terry - and thanks very much for the patent. It seems well written and easy to understand. I've down loaded it an will scutinize it with interest. Frank
[Vo]: George Got One
Clooney that is: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-briefs17.2aug17,1,1776320.story?coll=la-headlines-business http://tinyurl.com/gz6ya Terry
Re: [Vo]: New Segway Products
H I didn't say that meaningful change only happens through violence. If you read that into my note, you're simply reading your own fantasies... When people say a stable world it could mean many things. I deliberately spoke about scientific dogma, as this scientific stability, is, apparently, what the Vorts are continuously fighting against. There is no such thing as stabiity either in the external or internal worlds, and so far, it seems to me that all those who have tried to create a stable world, have tried to force stability on the masses. Take a look at a number of dictatorships and see if all the dictators of the world were or were not prepared to use violence to enforce stability, because they knew that instability could be their downfall. So it seems in fact that stability is often gained - or attempted - through violence, the overall idea being If only everybody believed and behaved as I do, we would have a nice, stable world. Our enemies - and we do have enemies - would like to impose their type of stability on us; they've said as much: that eveyone should think and dress and behave (and pray, if you're into that) one way only - their way. Stability. You want a reasonable way to unseat the terrorists? Make their lives continuously unstable. P. At 03:18 PM 8/18/2006 -0500, you wrote: Philip Winestone wrote: The stability you talk about is the same kind of stability that you get when dogma - scientific or otherwise - rules. It's the stability of the grazing herd. Nothing of value is accomplished through this kind of deadness. Propaganda. Do you think meaningful change ONLY happens through violence? e.g. Canada did not take the America path to independence. Harry
