Re: [Vo]: If you were Steorm, what would YOU do?
Zell, Chris wrote: If I find a free energy electrical device, I will measure its performance by DC ONLY, no AC. There will be no questions about reactive power! I feel compelled to quote the late Otto Schmitt who said in regards to proving energy output, go heat water. To which I would add, measure the energy input with a multi frequency spectrum analyzer. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---
Re: [Vo]: If you were Steorm, what would YOU do?
Zell, Chris wrote: Suppose you stumbled across the same thing that Steorm did. Apparently those guys aren't aquainted with the history of FE fiascos. (For example, what will they do when the burglaries start, or the anonymous death threats are phoned in against their families?) Excellent point. Only time will tell is that scenario is correct, or obfuscation to cover lies. Now, suppose I wanted to give it away free, for the good of the world, as Paul Brown said ( before he died). In this case I would offer simple I'll never for get a posting on Dale Pond's discussion group following Paul's death. Someone wanted to know why anyone would want to kill him. Dale pointed out that F E would upset various economic interests. Even more important are political agendas. OTOH, Paul had a history of driving fast, and he was driving a '72 model car which lacked many of the modern saftey features. An investigative journalist wrote up Paul's story, it would make quite a movie. I wrote him an email, but was ignored. to avoid being killed by oil companies/men in black/ Wackenhut people and to liberate mankind from Fascists and Islamofascists. Don't worry about the Islamists, they'd commercialize it. Wackenhut OTOH marches to the beat of a different drummer. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---
Re: [Vo]: If you were Steorm, what would YOU do?
Zell, Chris wrote: Get a copy of Confessions of an Economic Hitman and consider its contents. I listened to the author being interviewed on C to C AM. I sent his URL to the Salem Radio Network Talkers and was ignored. They are Center Right, and America can do no wrong, seems to be a fundamental tenant to their world view. BTW, I just finished reading Kevin Phillip's American Dynasty. IMHO, Phillips takes a rather centerist position. OTOH on of the center right Talkers attacked him for twisting history to fit his own agenda, I'm still looking for the twisting of any historical facts. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---
Re: [Vo]: Fwd: MAHG at TeslaTech convention
John Berry wrote: Of course there are those that claim that, but this isn't about seperation and recombination of H2 and O but of H and H. Hum, my friend said that he has some new spark plugs coming that are supposed to make it possible to run an ICE on Brown's Gas. So if the plugs could do the H and H, or H and D reaction, his claims might just comport with theory. My waiting to see an ICE that runs on the output of the alternator may be at an end. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---
Re: [Vo]: Steorm
Thanks Robin, I thought I had typed kW but missed the mistake. Well spotted. Damn Dyslexia. Robin van Spaandonk wrote: In reply to Wesley Bruce's message of Fri, 01 Sep 2006 01:10:22 +1000: Hi, [snip] If it is 500 mW / cc [0.5 watts/ litre] then I have about a hundred Actually 0.5 kW / L. (A mW is a milli-Watt, not a microwatt). Clearly there are millions of applications for it (i.e. just about everything that uses power). applications for it. One key question is whether it generates gyroscopic forces; that could make it hard to use on a vehicle. Not at all, just use them in pairs that compensate for one another. Besides cars already contain fly-wheels, and they don't cause any problems. The new Tesla electric car has a single electric motor which also rotates, and that doesn't cause a problem. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
Re: [Vo]: Steorm - a great post!
Fix the typo in it it says 0.5 W should be 0.5 kW, Sorry about that. Mark Goldes wrote: Wes, You have hit the nail directly on the head. This is the best summary I've seen of Steorn's reasoning before they decided to follow the path they have taken. Hope you don't mind, but I've copied it to another venue... Excellent analysis! Mark From: Wesley Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Steorm Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 01:10:22 +1000 Your overlooking the problem of patents. The patent will not be allowed if the theory is disputed and it gets worse if there is no theory at all.Steorm wants the patents on this. Peer reviews wont help the reviewers must have hands on contact. They simply wont believe a paper. There are several ways to do what needs to be done. * Publish a peer review paper and a patent at the same time. The publicize both. That was what Fleischmann and Pons tried and it did not work. * The Steorm jury, This is the process used in the past with several disputed discoveries. Including the latitude contest, some early discoveries in medicine including immunization and safe blood donations. It is common in classified work where public papers etc would kill the projects secrecy. * Build a car or boat and dive or sail it past large audiences. The first submarine, the first steam train contests and of cause the Wright brothers. * Publish the design outside peer review and have hundreds duplicate the work. Paul C.W. Chu and his colleagues, the discoverers of high temperature Yittirium based superconductors followed this path in part. As far as I know they had to forgo the possibility of patents but got major awards and posts which is a compensation. [if I have this bit wrong tell me please.] Each has its challenges and it risks. A test requires several things: * The starting impulse, if required, must be filly controlled and measured. I.e. do you start it with a shove or not? * It must run a load. * All wires,etc must be visible labeled and reasonably tamper proof. If placed in an air tight box filled will it still run. This will get submarine designers interested. If it still runs if it is turned upside down it will get a lot of Nasa attention. The best test of a scam is to ask the two key questions. 1. How do they intend to make a buck from the scam? 2. How do they intend to escape prosecution if it is a scam. Can they run and hide somehow? Steorm is not asking for money in any way and I can't see how they could be pulling a scam. Where's the money in it if their not telling the truth? There is too much data on the people involved for them to up and run if it is a scam. A good conman never gets his photo all over the web. These guys seem to be real. There may be an error that they can't see but there does not seem to be scam. I doubt that the laws of thermodynamics are under any threat. Any demonstration of free energy is in effect simply a demonstration that we have not yet measured and named all of the energy fluxes in the the universe. Once we have a powerplant running in we can measure its out put from place to place,or over time or in proximity to other things. Any slight variations in output will allow us to map and then define the underlying energy flow. If it is 500 mW / cc [0.5 watts/ litre] then I have about a hundred applications for it. One key question is whether it generates gyroscopic forces; that could make it hard to use on a vehicle. William Beaty wrote: On Sat, 26 Aug 2006, Mark Goldes wrote: That is great news! I have not listened to the interview. All the more likely they have done what they claim. If they just published detailed plans and construction info on their website, (and if the device is relatively easy to get working,) there'd be no need for this jury stuff. It looks like a publicity stunt, not a legit tactic. On the other hand, their device could be like SMOT, and be extremely difficult to work with. That would be a good reason *not* to just post the plans and let everyone try building it. (The Pons-Fleichman problem also involved a large number of failed replications.) But if secrecy wasn't their philosophy, they could just *say* that they'd otherwise just release everything ...but that their device is finicky. Where FE is concerned, secrecy has always been the major evil in the past. The secrecy keeps onlookers from knowing whether it's a scam. The secrecy sets up a catch-22 for selling OU products or even finding legit investors. And I suspect that if any groups want to suppress the discovery, inventor's secrecy is absolutly critical to successful suppression. Watch closely. We'll see if I'm right again. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. Beaty
Re: [Vo]: If you were Steorm, what would YOU do?
>From Terry: ... > If I could spend more time on the project, I am almost > certain we could close the loop. But this waveform > represents the gradient and is difficult to turn into > the 1 joule pulse we need to fire the electromagnet. > However, Paul is bored with this device having first > built it in 2003. Plus he now has a billionaire investor. Hmmm... Interesting. That billionaire investor's initials aren't B.G. are they? It would be nice to see some serious investment in these controversial areas - finally. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.Zazzle.com/orionworks Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]: If you were Steorm, what would YOU do?
On 9/3/06, OrionWorks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm... Interesting. That billionaire investor's initials aren't B.G. are they? It would be nice to see some serious investment in these controversial areas - finally. Nope, R.R., from a totally energy unrelated business. AAMOF the presentation we gave was to RR and his head technical advisor, an ME. RR said that he did not think that his holding company would be interested since it was totally outside their line of business. However, he said he was personally interested. He presented it to his BoD and they declined for the stated reason. He is not in it for the money. He has lived over four score years and wants to leave a legacy. His goal is to feed the hungry of the world. Imagine what a fuel less energy source of only 1 kW could do for the third world! An amusing anecdote: While they were signing the papers at one of the largest country clubs here, Paul said the waiter asked for RR's account number who gave the boy a three digit number. The waiter said that wasn't enough digits. RR said check it out. Of course they were sequentially assigned and RR had merely left off the leading zeros. :-) Anyway, it will all be public soon. Terry
Re: [Vo]: If you were Steorm, what would YOU do?
Terry, Thanks for the clarification. ... > An amusing anecdote: While they were signing the papers > at one of the largest country clubs here, Paul said the > waiter asked for RR's account number who gave the boy a > three digit number. The waiter said that wasn't enough > digits. RR said check it out. Of course they were > sequentially assigned and RR had merely left off the > leading zeros. > :-) > > Anyway, it will all be public soon. > > Terry And I look forward to reading about it too! PS: There's an irrational part of me that sometimes thinks that some of those middle eastern countries would feel much happier about their circumstances and themselves if they could just find a way to get back to the basics in life - you know, the nomadic way of life, herding camels, and living in tents out in the pristine desert. Almost sounds romantic. Let's see if we can help them out. Steve Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]: Coming Alive with biofuel
Jones Beene wrote: The Lesser of Evils. When you hear that phrase, you can bet that 'political expediency' is waiting to take the stage. There is said to be no humor (and little sanity) in the Biofuel arena- at least in the 'big picture' - especially if it were to 'boil down' the issue to either distilling ethanol from edible grain, or else buying Arab oil (which among other things subsidizes the purchasing the bombs by extremists used to kill our troops, allies and whatever collateral damage is inevitable). Coal can be turned into ethanol by making it into ethalyene oxide and then hydrogenating it. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---
