Re: [Vo]:Wigner effect?
From the info I have Wigner effect seems another bad excuse to reject more simple facts... however if it was true, such a huge storage (still unreliable like many new technologies), would be a HUGE REVOLUTIOn in Science, in Engineering... like we expected for LENR, it is evident that such giant Wigner effect would lead to great application. If LENR is not true, one of the key to future energetic technologies is the storage. Finding a storage a hundred more dense than chemical storage, his MEGA HUGE REVOLUTION. so why those hypocritical who claim it is a Wigner effect dont CLAIM IT LOUD and launche a BIG PROJECT to harness it and CHANGE the WORLD ! of course it is false and they don't believe one word of what they say. in french we call that a clivage (clivage is the operation to cut a gemstone cleanly), a psychotic avatar of cognitive dissonance, when someone sincerely believe a myth but at the same time clearly know it is false and do all he can to protect this myth, to avoid facing it's contradiction, to protect his personality from collapse by facing his failures. If someone repeat that Wigner effect, tell him to launch a research project to check if he believe in what he says. same for any similare excuse. Whatever is FP effect, it deserve a project. In metrology if it is measurement errors. In chemical science if it is chemical, or super chemical. In energy if it any kind of storage. In nuclear science if it is science. In psychiatry if it is groupthink and delusion. those who refuse to launch a study, are simply not believing their lies. 2012/11/28 Andy Findlay andy_find...@orange.net Thanks, Jed, You are implying that you don't believe that the stored Wigner effect energy per gram could be many orders of magnitude higher in Palladium (or Nickel, for that matter) than in graphite because of the 4eV per atom limit. Correct? Please don't get me wrong - I am hoping that I can rule out the Wigner Effect as the source of the anomalies (to my own satisfaction). It would be very disappointing if CF/LENR turned out to be just an unreliable energy storage device. Andy. On 28/11/12 01:54, Jed Rothwell wrote: Accumulation of energy in irradiated graphite has been recorded as high as 2.7 kJ/g, but is typically much lower than this . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Wigner_effecthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigner_effect Cold fusion cathodes of roughly 1 g have produced more than that in many cases, and in a few cases 50 to 150 MJ. In the debate between Fleischmann and Morrison I linked to, the cathode produced 1.1 MJ. As I recall it was small, probably ~1 g. Most of FP's early cathodes were small. The Wigner effect appears to be a form of mechanical storage, as near as I can tell. Generally speaking, when you talk about chemical or mechanical energy storage -- with electron bonds, in other words -- the upper limit is about 4 eV per atom of material. Store more than that and the molecules fall apart. You get plasma, I suppose. Cold fusion devices have produced hundreds to thousands of eV per atom, and the upper limit is unknown.
Re: [Vo]:io9 and the bitcoin forum
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 10:54 PM, Harvey Norris harv...@yahoo.com wrote: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=mlist;sort=realName;start=62370 My question is what kind of forum is so important that it has 70,877 members! It's become a way to make a living: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_farming
[Vo]:New way to look at electron orbital filling and the periodic table...
For those chemists out there. http://vixra.org/pdf/1211.0158v1.pdf -Mark Iverson
Re: [Vo]:Unjustified and unjust attack
Peter, Gary is a banned spammer from Vortex. He is a lunatic and powerless. You can just chill out. Don't worry. 2012/11/29 Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com Dear Friends, In this stale season when it is not much to say about LENR. Gary Wright has published a long paper: *More on Tyler Are the Leaders of ISCMNS Supporters of Rossi’s Scam?* http://shutdownrossi.com/more-on-tyler-are-the-leaders-of-iscmns-supporters-of-rossis-scam/ The paper suggests that some of our distinguished CMNS scientists are in a way accomplices of Rossi's scam. Gary Wright accepts only one attitude toward Rossi saying/shouting that he is a complete scammer and shutting him down. Certainty, absolute truth. Even speaking about him is a sin against science and technology I have already written about Gary Wright's mentality here: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2012/10/analyzing-shutdownrossicom-site.html , but I did not guessed he can be so unjust and aggressive as in his new paper. In any collection of quotations re Truth you can find this too *Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. (Andre Gide) * This is the old form. In the new one, after his visit in the Soviet Union were only One opinion was admitted in everything, Gide began to tell about love for those who still seek the truth and fear from those who claimed to have found it and possess it. As far as Gary is not the Ruler of the LENR field, I hope he will apologize for his dictatorial manner. Peter Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Unjustified and unjust attack
I don't worry, dear Daniel. I am just amazed by the limitless (censored) of Gary. Peter On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Peter, Gary is a banned spammer from Vortex. He is a lunatic and powerless. You can just chill out. Don't worry. 2012/11/29 Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com Dear Friends, In this stale season when it is not much to say about LENR. Gary Wright has published a long paper: *More on Tyler Are the Leaders of ISCMNS Supporters of Rossi’s Scam?* http://shutdownrossi.com/more-on-tyler-are-the-leaders-of-iscmns-supporters-of-rossis-scam/ The paper suggests that some of our distinguished CMNS scientists are in a way accomplices of Rossi's scam. Gary Wright accepts only one attitude toward Rossi saying/shouting that he is a complete scammer and shutting him down. Certainty, absolute truth. Even speaking about him is a sin against science and technology I have already written about Gary Wright's mentality here: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2012/10/analyzing-shutdownrossicom-site.html , but I did not guessed he can be so unjust and aggressive as in his new paper. In any collection of quotations re Truth you can find this too *Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. (Andre Gide) * This is the old form. In the new one, after his visit in the Soviet Union were only One opinion was admitted in everything, Gide began to tell about love for those who still seek the truth and fear from those who claimed to have found it and possess it. As far as Gary is not the Ruler of the LENR field, I hope he will apologize for his dictatorial manner. Peter Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Unjustified and unjust attack
From Daniel: Peter, Gary is a banned spammer from Vortex. He is a lunatic and powerless. ... Mr. Wright claims he has “…never posted on vortex, even once.” Where did you get your claim from? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Unjustified and unjust attack
Some more inconsequential gossip. I see that Mr. Wright’s response to Mr. Gluck starts out with: “Our” answer to Peter Gluck … I love those responses that use words like “our” or “we” to imply that they are a big respectable organization that must be employing a crackerjack team of sharp-shooters. It’s a tactic straight out of SK’s game plan. Speaking of SK, here’s a direct quote from Mr. Wright blog: Gary is no lunatic, and his writings have more influence about Rossi on the internet, second only to Steven Krivit’s website. As Reagan was fond of saying: “There you go again!” Perhaps Mr. Wright has taken notes from that distinguished American Lobbyist: Grover Norquist, who seems to be having some difficulty these days keeping all his ducks in line. It strikes me as the same message expressed in different clothing: The targeted object is evil… Turn the evil object into an effigy. Destroy the evil effigy by all means necessary. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:The value of pulsing in bursts
Dave, Good question.. can you elaborate? Are we on the same page.. are you asking if the formation of plasma and subsequent expansion of the gas obeys COE? I am of the opinion that the gas is self catalyzing in a Mills sort of fashion and the disassociations caused by catalytic action does not have to obey COE.. because COE ignores HUP... the random motion of gas is evidence of this energy , we have been told this energy can never be trapped [Maxwell's' demon]... but I don't think this rule necessarily holds at Casimir geometry.. all the claims of anomalous heat, radioactive decay and sonoluminescence all seem to be related to this geometry be it nano powders, skeletal catalysts or meniscus geometries. VR Frank From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 3:50 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:The value of pulsing in bursts From Axil: We are seeing this in the Papp reaction were continuous high voltage spark discharge is ineffective in moving the piston but high power capacitive spark discharge moves the piston vigorously. Are you convinced that the increased piston reaction from the capacitive discharge is not just due to the amount of energy difference between the sources? I tend to believe that the current flow generates the force. The current is much larger from the capacitor bank and the net energy is also far higher. My mental model is that the device acts in the manner of an electric motor. Has there been recent videos from the experimentation? I lost my link. Dave
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:The value of pulsing in bursts
I agree that HUP/ZPE can be exploited.. but we have been told/taught in physics that you can't extract energy from gas motion or other forms of zero point energy.. I don't think all these anomalous claims of heat contradict COE as much as COE is simply defined wrong to exclude HUP energy as a possible source... I think that rule can be broken at the quantum level provided we take steps to prevent natures tendency to either negate [stiction] these forces or self destruct - the self destruct may be the only reason Mills and Rossi have to replace their materials. Regards Fran From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 2:45 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:The value of pulsing in bursts On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.commailto:francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: , we have been told this energy can never be trapped [Maxwell's' demon]... This is not true, at least for a time. See the thread, An electromagnetic black hole for my example. Cheers: Axil
Re: [Vo]:The value of pulsing in bursts
All black holes are electromagnetic...
On Thursday, November 29, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Roarty, Francis X
francis.x.roa...@lmco.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'francis.x.roa...@lmco.com'); wrote:
, we have been told this energy can never be trapped [Maxwell’s’
demon]…
This is not true, at least for a time.
See the thread, An electromagnetic black hole for my example.
Cheers: Axil
Re: [Vo]:The value of pulsing in bursts
Frank, I tend to believe that the COE does have to be obeyed in these reactions. I also expect the conservation of momentum to be valid. If extra energy is introduced by some form of catalytic activity then it would still qualify as conserving the parameters if mass is reduced in the process. My understanding of Casimir force is limited if it allows the conservation laws to be bypassed. Perhaps this is due to my being suspicious about the validity of the Papp engine operation since no one can seem to deliver a working model for independent study. I would be pleased if the Papp process were proven, but so far I am skeptical. Are you aware of any repeatable experiments that demonstrate the Casimir effect and prove that it can overcome the conservation laws? The recent fine videos by Russ do not contain any hard measurements which indicate that more energy is delivered to the piston than stored within the capacitor bank. This must be proven before I can take the Papp process seriously. I do not recall any Papp like demonstrations that use a non metallic piston cap which shows truly significant force being generated. I have seen demonstration of a few beer cans being accelerated but this does not require much net energy. The expanding gases might be capable of a small force. I am inclined to think that any reasonable piston movement is due to electric currents reacting in a repulsive manner kin to the operation of an electric motor. Dave -Original Message- From: Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Nov 29, 2012 2:35 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:The value of pulsing in bursts Dave, Good question.. can you elaborate? Are we on the same page.. are you asking if the formation of plasma and subsequent expansion of the gas obeys COE? I am of the opinion that the gas is self catalyzing in a Mills sort of fashion and the disassociations caused by catalytic action “does not” have to obey COE.. because COE ignores HUP… the random motion of gas is evidence of this energy , we have been told this energy can never be trapped [Maxwell’s’ demon]… but I don’t think this rule necessarily holds at Casimir geometry.. all the claims of anomalous heat, radioactive decay and sonoluminescence all seem to be related to this geometry be it nano powders, skeletal catalysts or meniscus geometries. VR Frank From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 3:50 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:The value of pulsing in bursts From Axil: We are seeing this in the Papp reaction were continuous high voltage spark discharge is ineffective in moving the piston but high power capacitive spark discharge moves the piston vigorously. Are you convinced that the increased piston reaction from the capacitive discharge is not just due to the amount of energy difference between the sources? I tend to believe that the current flow generates the force. The current is much larger from the capacitor bank and the net energy is also far higher. My mental model is that the device acts in the manner of an electric motor. Has there been recent videos from the experimentation? I lost my link. Dave
Re: [Vo]:Unjustified and unjust attack
Taking in account http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_microbiome about which Mark Twain had no idea, there are roughly 10 times more bacteria than cells in a human body. It is symbiosis and parasitism in the same time, it is reality- so everybody can use WE, in principle. If it makes him/her feeling better and more valuable. Peter On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: I love those responses that use words like “our” or “we” to imply that they are a big respectable organization that must be employing a crackerjack team of sharp-shooters. Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we.' - Mark Twain -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Unjustified and unjust attack
Dear Susanna, I don't want to do something wrong to Gary, actually technically he does a thorough job. I just was angry because he accused good people of bad things.Anybody can think about Rossi what she/he wants and must not decide. I know this guy Pinocchio well, he has a special gene that has to be implanted in all politicians. Let's use it for Rossi too. Mythomania is a drawback but it does not exclude he really has something- the experiments seemed real. Peter On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Susanna Gipp susan.g...@gmail.com wrote: Rude, unfair? Maybe. Unjustified ? mmm Anyway, Gary is not done yet. Have you read this? http://shutdownrossi.com/miscellaneous-everything-else/62-quotes-rossi-making-e-cats-in-factory-in-florida-usa/ Even Pinocchio could't have done any better. Pinocchio at the 3rd or 4th one got his nose so oversized that he could no more turn his head around. Think about a count of 62! LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVepvFmwz_Q Ecat? How many broken hearts! Cheers 2012/11/29 Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com Dear Friends, In this stale season when it is not much to say about LENR. Gary Wright has published a long paper: *More on Tyler Are the Leaders of ISCMNS Supporters of Rossi’s Scam?* http://shutdownrossi.com/more-on-tyler-are-the-leaders-of-iscmns-supporters-of-rossis-scam/ The paper suggests that some of our distinguished CMNS scientists are in a way accomplices of Rossi's scam. Gary Wright accepts only one attitude toward Rossi saying/shouting that he is a complete scammer and shutting him down. Certainty, absolute truth. Even speaking about him is a sin against science and technology I have already written about Gary Wright's mentality here: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2012/10/analyzing-shutdownrossicom-site.html , but I did not guessed he can be so unjust and aggressive as in his new paper. In any collection of quotations re Truth you can find this too *Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. (Andre Gide) * This is the old form. In the new one, after his visit in the Soviet Union were only One opinion was admitted in everything, Gide began to tell about love for those who still seek the truth and fear from those who claimed to have found it and possess it. As far as Gary is not the Ruler of the LENR field, I hope he will apologize for his dictatorial manner. Peter Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
