RE: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:CANR explains the original Papp engine
Jones , I am ok with negating the sealed heat engine but since we aren't talking about combustion but rather what you referred to once as a cold engine I remain open to a possible sealed cold engine based on changes in isotropy where reversible chemical reactions runaway when compression reduces bounding gas pocket geometries around ionized gas like hydrogen down into the active Casimir region such that disassociation is discounted below the amount of energy returned when the gas immediately re-associates. My hypothesis is based on Jan Naudts paper regarding the hydrino as actually being relativistic hydrogen and a 1996 paper Cavity QED by Zofia Bialynicka-Birula. The two papers taken together suggest that Casimir supression results in what Puthoff would describe as a reduced vacuum pressure in the same way that an observer in a deep gravity well or approaching C would perceive us on earth as being in a reduced vacuum pressureand greatly accelerated/catalyzed. The only difference is we tend to consider Casimir supression as negative from our perspective because we insist on considering our macro perspective of space time as being the zero reference point when there is no 3D motion...apparently we have to start thinking about 4D displacement when we delve into lattices and especially vacuum suppression geometries and the defects that make these suppression values dynamic. Puthoffs vacuum pressure can be considered the standard pressure that defines the stable elements in the periodic table and as such helped us derive COE and is the source of HUP as virtual pairs enter and exit our plane displacing real particles equally and randomly along all 3 axii... Your mention of Casimir geometry as approaching the limit of 2D may be one clue to how ZPE becomes unbalanced / biased against one of the axis we experience in our frame in the same way the Paradox Twins exist on phase shifted 3 of 4D's relative to each others frame. This also explains the time dilations reported and gives a better working mans concept for catalytic action instead of the current metrics description based on surface areas. This is all to reiterate my suspicion of a self assembling HUP trap that reduces the disassociation threshold of H2 or D2 that is common between all the players..Mills, Papp, Mahg, Rossi..even the menisci of bubble fusion to explain the observed plasma...although the dynamics are probably the biggest discount to the disassociation threshold the fact that vacuum pressure is lower in the cavity and doesn't require energy to propell the gas near C suggests contributions through time dilation as well where the reversible reactions are actually occurring much slower from the local perspective of the gas atoms themselves. Are we possibly trading time for energy by spatially unbalancing HUP from our reference frame? Regards Fran _ From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 10:06 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:CANR explains the original Papp engine In the history of the Josef Papp saga, Gene Mallove took a special interest in a few details that are not well-known. There was a video of a US Navy military sponsored explosion, a cannon reported by Gene to have used Papp's technology. I haven't seen the video, but it is available from IE. What would be more interesting than a poor video (but we can only guess what is reported) is the actual Navy report of this test. Maybe someone should put in a FOI request for it. http://www.infinite-energy.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_infoproducts_id=85 Historically, it looks like there could have been a number of explosions of radium compounds that were more intense than chemical reactions but much of that info is not online since it goes back in time over 100 years. http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=457526 http://libserv23.princeton.edu/princetonperiodicals/cgi-bin/princetonperiodicals?a=dd=Princetonian19360418-01.2.4e=---en-20--1--txt-IN- In addition to a short half life, radium is extremely chemically reactive. This could be a clue in what is going on in a radium-powered engine, as the patent describes. In CANR the idea has been around for a long time that chemical reactions can cause(catalyze) nuclear reactions, or speed up nuclear decay by many orders of magnitude. The first reliable instance of this phenomena is found in the deuterium chloride trigger for the first device developed at Los Alamos in the 1940s. This was the Kistiakowsky trigger named after Dr. K - the Head of the Explosives Division of the Manhattan Project. The chlorine must photo-activated to cause deuterium to release neutrons, possibly by stripping. Can radium chloride be triggered like DCl when the photo-activation is arc discharge or sparks? Who knows, but if so - Radium is three million times as radioactive as the
[Vo]:ICCF18 website expanded
They will open for registration on March 15. See: http://iccf18.research.missouri.edu/index.php - Jed
[Vo]:Professor Moddel gets patent for gases flowing through casimir cavities
http://ecee.colorado.edu/~moddel/QEL/Papers/DmitriyevaModdel12.pdf
Re: [Vo]:Professor Moddel gets patent for gases flowing through casimir cavities
It says Dmitriyeva Haisch, Cantwell and McConnell also worked on this. The usual suspects! - Jed
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Professor Moddel gets patent for gases flowing through casimir cavities
Surprising they didn't test with hydrogen but this approach based on Lamb pinch and noble gases is at a much lower scale for both geometry and therefore energy but it may be a better way to ferret out the initial energy source of LENR... if the ZPE - Casimir hypothesis is correct his approach would allow him to find gain without any nuclear ash and much less chance of self destructing hot spots. Fran From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 08, 2013 10:58 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Professor Moddel gets patent for gases flowing through casimir cavities It says Dmitriyeva Haisch, Cantwell and McConnell also worked on this. The usual suspects! - Jed
[Vo]: Atomic Collapse observed
Predicted Atomic Collapse phenomenon observed: http://www.rdmag.com/news/2013/03/long-predicted-atomic-collapse-state-observed-graphene
[Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
Why Are the Big Financial Institutions Selling Oil BIG? http://oilprice.com/Finance/investing-and-trading-reports/Why-Are-the-Big-Financial-Institutions-Selling-Oil-BIG.html
Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
I believe it has nothing to do with LENR and everything to do with attempting to control inflation because of all of the European and US money printing (QE). You see the same large companies doing the same to commodities - As he mentioned it is being done by JP Morgan and crew but most likely with the backing of the Fed and the other European central banks. On 03/08/2013 02:52 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Why Are the Big Financial Institutions Selling Oil BIG? http://oilprice.com/Finance/investing-and-trading-reports/Why-Are-the-Big-Financial-Institutions-Selling-Oil-BIG.html
Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
80% of what the press gives us are false correlations. This is a good example, actually the impact of the E-cat is zero and its minstream credibility inexistent. The author probably has a strong sense of humor Peter On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Joe Hughes jhughe...@comcast.net wrote: I believe it has nothing to do with LENR and everything to do with attempting to control inflation because of all of the European and US money printing (QE). You see the same large companies doing the same to commodities - As he mentioned it is being done by JP Morgan and crew but most likely with the backing of the Fed and the other European central banks. On 03/08/2013 02:52 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Why Are the Big Financial Institutions Selling Oil BIG? http://oilprice.com/Finance/**investing-and-trading-reports/** Why-Are-the-Big-Financial-**Institutions-Selling-Oil-BIG.**htmlhttp://oilprice.com/Finance/investing-and-trading-reports/Why-Are-the-Big-Financial-Institutions-Selling-Oil-BIG.html -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
Peter Gluck wrote: 80% of what the press gives us are false correlations. This is a good example, actually the impact of the E-cat is zero and its minstream credibility inexistent. I agree. (You mean nonexistent.) - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
At 12:05 PM 3/8/2013, you wrote: I believe it has nothing to do with LENR and everything to do with attempting to control inflation because of all of the European and US money printing (QE). You see the same large companies doing the same to commodities - As he mentioned it is being done by JP Morgan and crew but most likely with the backing of the Fed and the other European central banks. Why Are the Big Financial Institutions Selling Oil BIG? http://oilprice.com/Finance/investing-and-trading-reports/Why-Are-the-Big-Financial-Institutions-Selling-Oil-BIG.html Or if you want a technological reason -- 50 mpg standards, Electric cars -- and cheap, cheap, cheap natural gas. eg Berkshire's Oil Hauling Railroad (Burlington Northern Santa Fe) Tests Switch to Natural Gas http://www.cnbc.com/id/100530572
Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Why Are the Big Financial Institutions Selling Oil BIG? I posted earlier that the US will not support LENR. We are on the verge of becoming an oil exporter. http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/03/08/secret-energy-revolution-could-hasten-end-to-dependence-on-foreign-oil/
Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: I posted earlier that the US will not support LENR. We are on the verge of becoming an oil exporter. What part of the U.S.? Exxon Mobil? The DoE? General Electric? Ordinary people, who will save thousands of dollars a year with LENR? I expect opinions will be divided. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 3:32 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I expect opinions will be divided. I agree. They already are! :-)
Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
actually negative. this can change, in principle. It is not figuring in such dictionaries: *Glossary of bullshit business terms* http://culturaloffering.com/2013/03/08/glossary--.aspx but, for example:we agree, in principle actually means no.not,but we will not tell you this just now The E-cat is not recorded yet even by the most sensitive business seismographs. Peter On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 10:22 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Peter Gluck wrote: 80% of what the press gives us are false correlations. This is a good example, actually the impact of the E-cat is zero and its minstream credibility inexistent. I agree. (You mean nonexistent.) - Jed -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
RE: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
LENR is nowhere close to influencing oil prices, and how can you control inflation by shorting Big Oil ? The sell-off could be technology related, however. But it is old and not green. Curiously - it is Nazi technology, so at least they gave us something of value. You can call it Messerschmitt Fuel from an improved version of Fischer-Tropsch. Pilot plants are producing a barrel of premium low sulfur diesel for $66, or $1.57 a gallon, using gas at $4 per thousand standard cubic feet at small plants near the shale. In contrast, it cost Exxon about $124 a barrel, or $2.95 a gallon to make premium diesel from Texas crude, almost double. Would you want to keep Exxon knowing this? Smart money seems to be selling Big Oil because there is a glut of shale gas, and the new technology allows conversion of that gas to diesel fuel and heating oil at less than the cost of crude. It's a no brainer and LENR is out of the picture. This glut will not last more than a few years according to experts. An eventual price drop at the pump could put at least $200 billion back into the US economy which had been going to OPEC, so all the talk about sequester is probably hype. However, the bad news in California is pump prices have not dropped much, because we are cursed with the Chevron hegemony and undeveloped shale gas. But that can change. http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/14/news/economy/california-oil-boom/index.html -Original Message- From: Joe Hughes I believe it has nothing to do with LENR and everything to do with attempting to control inflation because of all of the European and US money printing (QE). You see the same large companies doing the same to commodities - As he mentioned it is being done by JP Morgan and crew but most likely with the backing of the Fed and the other European central banks. On 03/08/2013 02:52 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Why Are the Big Financial Institutions Selling Oil BIG? http://oilprice.com/Finance/investing-and-trading-reports/Why-Are-the-Big-Fi nancial-Institutions-Selling-Oil-BIG.html
RE: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
This article from Oilprice.com is a really good bullshit. It will take ages before LENR will have an impact on oil prices, and therefore on energy prices. Big banks, and big oil companies will have (or already have) a strong fight against LENR. But surely it will not be like it's explained in the article. With 10 GW or even 100 GW of LENR energy available, the energy prices might start to be slightly affected. For comparison, 100 GW is a little more than what France has of electrical power installed. Suppose Rossi and others start to produce LENR reactors, how long will it take to have 10 GW of LENR energy available? 3~4 years at least, guess from my thumb. We can keep our oil company share ;-)
RE: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
They may be pricing in economic decline in Europe and Japan, together with China slowing down. In addition, there are reports of an oil find in Australia that is gonzo freakin' huge. Like tens of trillions of dollars in reserves. Europe is taking note of the shale boom, too. Better than coal, at least.
Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
You're one minor and one major industrial revolution behind in this analysis: Minor: The emergence of the east Asian giants has already fundamentally changed the political economics of technology deployment. They are much less encumbered than is the West and much more motivated to apply their manufacturing flexibility. This is like a combination of the Nazi economic miracle and the post-war German economic miracle. Major: Click on The Makers Revolutionhttp://fora.tv/2013/02/19/WIREDs_Chris_Anderson_The_Makers_Revolution On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: ** This article from Oilprice.com is a really good bullshit. It will take ages before LENR will have an impact on oil prices, and therefore on energy prices
RE: [Vo]:CANR explains the original Papp engine
From: Roarty, Francis X I am ok with negating the sealed heat engine but since we aren't talking about combustion but rather what you referred to once as a cold engine I remain open to a possible sealed cold engine based on changes in isotropy where reversible chemical reactions runaway when compression reduces bounding gas pocket geometries around ionized gas like hydrogen down into the active Casimir region such that disassociation is discounted below the amount of energy returned when the gas immediately re-associates. Fran, good point. Your basic suggestion sounds viable if the facts support it. A hydrogen-based reaction (Casimir or Casimir instigated redundant ground state reaction in a noble gas matrix) would be a more interesting proposition if we could show that Papp had used hydrogen in his gas mix, but there's not much evidence for that. Another possibility, if there were persistent ions in the gas (aka hydino hydride), is a version of the exploding or variable capacitor model. John Berry posted on this once (http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg32772.html) but I'm not sure anyone ever suggested that this particular engine is a version of it. H2 could arguably have been a common contaminant in tanked helium in that era. Back in the late sixties, helium probably did have a fractional percent or more. H2 could also have been Papp's trade secret, but if the energy comes from f/H - it materializes as thermal gain. There should be lots of heat for UV radiation. The exploding capacitor scenario is also a heat engine proposition. If the engine is marginally air-cooled, and hydrogen ionization and redundancy is occurring - then its temperature should rise rapidly during operation. It the cylinder does not heat up, as appears to be the case, then it does not seem to operate as a heat engine and it seems to violate Boyle's law. The advocates of this engine might say that the purpose of the mix of noble gases was to take the fill as far away from an ideal gas as possible. No problem with that, but the explanation does not imply that heat can completely disappear for one area of space. IOW - even if there is a thermodynamic cooling anomaly of major proportions due to the non-ideal gas mix, that does NOT mean that an engine of this type is capable of self-running without a heat source. And it means that a self-runner requires two completely separate miracles - the anomalous heat source and the anomalous cooling source. If Josef Papp found those two miracles at the same time, then maybe he also invented the 300 mph submarine :-) and was the most misunderstood man on earth (till AR came along). Jones
[Vo]:
Ex nihilo: Dynamical Casimir effect in metamaterial converts vacuum fluctuations into real photons March 8, 2013 by Stuart Mason Dambrot Copyright © PNAS, doi:10.1073/pnas.1212705110 (Phys.org) —In the strange world of quantum mechanics, the vacuum state (sometimes referred to as the quantum vacuum, simply as the vacuum) is a quantum system's lowest possible energy state. While not containing physical particles, neither is it an empty void: Rather, the quantum vacuum contains fluctuating electromagnetic waves and so-called virtual particles, the latter being known to transition into and out of existence. In addition, the vacuum state has zero-point energy – the lowest quantized energy level of a quantum mechanical system – that manifests itself as the static Casimir effect, an attractive interaction between the opposite walls of an electromagnetic cavity. Recently, scientists at Aalto University in Finland and VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland demonstrated the dynamical Casimir effect using a Josephson metamaterial embedded in a microwave cavity. They showed that under certain conditions, real photons are generated in pairs, and concluded that their creation was consistent with quantum field theory predictions. Researcher Pasi Lähteenmäki discussed the challenges he and his colleagues – G. S. Paraoanu, Juha Hassel and Pertti J. Hakonen – encountered in their study. Regarding their demonstration of the dynamical Casimir effect using a Josephson metamaterial embedded in a microwave cavity at 5.4 GHz, Lähteenmäki tells Phys.org that the main challenge in general is to get high-quality samples. In addition, Lähteenmäki adds, they had to ensure that the origin of the noise is quantum and not some unaccounted source of excess noise, such as thermal imbalance between the environment and the sample, or possibly leakage of external noise. Modulating the effective length of the cavity by flux-biasing the SQUID (superconducting quantum interference device) metamaterial had its challenges as well. The pump signal needs to be rather strong, yet at the same time one wants to be sure that no excess noise enters the system through the pump line, Lähteenmäki notes, and good filtering means high attenuation, which is a requirement contradictory to a strong signal. Also, Lähteenmäki continues, at 10.8 GHz the pump frequency is rather high – and at that frequency range both the sample and the setup is rather prone to electrical resonances which can limit the usable frequencies. In short, the flux profile needs to be such that the pumping doesn't counteract itself. In addition, trapping flux in SQUID loops can also become a problem, limiting the range of optimal operating points and causing excess loss. The researchers also showed that photons at frequencies symmetric with respect to half the modulation frequency of the cavity are generated in pairs. In general, with frequency locked signal analyzers today the extraction of this correlation is not particularly problematic – especially since the low noise amplifier noise is not correlated at different frequencies, Lähteenmäki explains. That said, issues related to data collection and averaging include amplifier gain drift and phase randomization of the pump signal (relative to the detection phase) if the state of the generator is changed. The noise temperature of the low noise amplifier sets some limits to the amount of data that needs to be collected, especially in the case where one is operating in the regime of low parametric gain. Lastly, the team also found that at large detunings of the cavity from half the modulation frequency, they found power spectra that clearly showed the theoretically-predicted hallmark of the dynamical Casimir effect. Large detunings imply low intensity of generated radiation, notes Lähteenmäki. This means long averaging times, so the system should be kept stable for a long period. Also, the system needs to be fairly resonance-free over a large range of frequencies to get decent data – and/or one needs to know the characteristics of these resonances and noise temperature of the low noise amplifier rather well. Lähteenmäki points out that addressing these issues required a number of insights and innovations. We combated amplifier drift by continuously switching the pump on and off, and recording the difference in the observed output power, suitable operating points were searched for using trial and error, and trapping the photon flux was eliminated by applying a heat pulse to the sample and letting it cool down again. The researchers also magnetically shielded the sample with a superconductive shield, and minimized the effect of losses by changing the coupling of the existing samples by making different valued vacuum coupling capacitors with focused ion beam (FIB) cuts. However, Lähteenmäki stresses, our biggest issue – ruling out the source of classical noise as opposed to quantum noise – was accomplished primarily by
[Vo]:Ex nihilo: Dynamical Casimir effect in metamaterial converts vacuum fluctuations into real photons
Don't know why the subject didn't show up. On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: Ex nihilo: Dynamical Casimir effect in metamaterial converts vacuum fluctuations into real photons March 8, 2013 by Stuart Mason Dambrot Copyright © PNAS, doi:10.1073/pnas.1212705110 (Phys.org) —In the strange world of quantum mechanics, the vacuum state (sometimes referred to as the quantum vacuum, simply as the vacuum) is a quantum system's lowest possible energy state. While not containing physical particles, neither is it an empty void: Rather, the quantum vacuum contains fluctuating electromagnetic waves and so-called virtual particles, the latter being known to transition into and out of existence. In addition, the vacuum state has zero-point energy – the lowest quantized energy level of a quantum mechanical system – that manifests itself as the static Casimir effect, an attractive interaction between the opposite walls of an electromagnetic cavity. Recently, scientists at Aalto University in Finland and VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland demonstrated the dynamical Casimir effect using a Josephson metamaterial embedded in a microwave cavity. They showed that under certain conditions, real photons are generated in pairs, and concluded that their creation was consistent with quantum field theory predictions. Researcher Pasi Lähteenmäki discussed the challenges he and his colleagues – G. S. Paraoanu, Juha Hassel and Pertti J. Hakonen – encountered in their study. Regarding their demonstration of the dynamical Casimir effect using a Josephson metamaterial embedded in a microwave cavity at 5.4 GHz, Lähteenmäki tells Phys.org that the main challenge in general is to get high-quality samples. In addition, Lähteenmäki adds, they had to ensure that the origin of the noise is quantum and not some unaccounted source of excess noise, such as thermal imbalance between the environment and the sample, or possibly leakage of external noise. Modulating the effective length of the cavity by flux-biasing the SQUID (superconducting quantum interference device) metamaterial had its challenges as well. The pump signal needs to be rather strong, yet at the same time one wants to be sure that no excess noise enters the system through the pump line, Lähteenmäki notes, and good filtering means high attenuation, which is a requirement contradictory to a strong signal. Also, Lähteenmäki continues, at 10.8 GHz the pump frequency is rather high – and at that frequency range both the sample and the setup is rather prone to electrical resonances which can limit the usable frequencies. In short, the flux profile needs to be such that the pumping doesn't counteract itself. In addition, trapping flux in SQUID loops can also become a problem, limiting the range of optimal operating points and causing excess loss. The researchers also showed that photons at frequencies symmetric with respect to half the modulation frequency of the cavity are generated in pairs. In general, with frequency locked signal analyzers today the extraction of this correlation is not particularly problematic – especially since the low noise amplifier noise is not correlated at different frequencies, Lähteenmäki explains. That said, issues related to data collection and averaging include amplifier gain drift and phase randomization of the pump signal (relative to the detection phase) if the state of the generator is changed. The noise temperature of the low noise amplifier sets some limits to the amount of data that needs to be collected, especially in the case where one is operating in the regime of low parametric gain. Lastly, the team also found that at large detunings of the cavity from half the modulation frequency, they found power spectra that clearly showed the theoretically-predicted hallmark of the dynamical Casimir effect. Large detunings imply low intensity of generated radiation, notes Lähteenmäki. This means long averaging times, so the system should be kept stable for a long period. Also, the system needs to be fairly resonance-free over a large range of frequencies to get decent data – and/or one needs to know the characteristics of these resonances and noise temperature of the low noise amplifier rather well. Lähteenmäki points out that addressing these issues required a number of insights and innovations. We combated amplifier drift by continuously switching the pump on and off, and recording the difference in the observed output power, suitable operating points were searched for using trial and error, and trapping the photon flux was eliminated by applying a heat pulse to the sample and letting it cool down again. The researchers also magnetically shielded the sample with a superconductive shield, and minimized the effect of losses by changing the coupling of the existing samples by making different valued vacuum coupling capacitors with
RE: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
I don't understand what you exactly mean here? I'm aware of the new robotization revolution (Baxter robot, and the same arm multi purposes robots ...), but anyway, you can't change the all economy in a few winks. Moreover, in the beginning, there will have a huge fight against LENR by lobbyists before it could be mass market. Let just hope than we will be fester than the east Asian in this run. From: James Bowery [mailto:jabow...@gmail.com] Sent: vendredi 8 mars 2013 22:29 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com You're one minor and one major industrial revolution behind in this analysis: Minor: The emergence of the east Asian giants has already fundamentally changed the political economics of technology deployment. They are much less encumbered than is the West and much more motivated to apply their manufacturing flexibility. This is like a combination of the Nazi economic miracle and the post-war German economic miracle. Major: Click on The Makers Revolution On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: This article from Oilprice.com is a really good bullshit. It will take ages before LENR will have an impact on oil prices, and therefore on energy prices
Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 8 Mar 2013 13:12:54 -0800: Hi, [snip] http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/14/news/economy/california-oil-boom/index.html Note that it follows the San Andreas Fault. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
You didn't click through the link and watch the presentation by Anderson. Do so. On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: I don't understand what you exactly mean here? I'm aware of the new robotization revolution (Baxter robot, and the same arm multi purposes robots ...), but anyway, you can't change the all economy in a few winks. Moreover, in the beginning, there will have a huge fight against LENR by lobbyists before it could be mass market. Let just hope than we will be fester than the east Asian in this run. From: James Bowery [mailto:jabow...@gmail.com] Sent: vendredi 8 mars 2013 22:29 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com You're one minor and one major industrial revolution behind in this analysis: Minor: The emergence of the east Asian giants has already fundamentally changed the political economics of technology deployment. They are much less encumbered than is the West and much more motivated to apply their manufacturing flexibility. This is like a combination of the Nazi economic miracle and the post-war German economic miracle. Major: Click on The Makers Revolution On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: This article from Oilprice.com is a really good bullshit. It will take ages before LENR will have an impact on oil prices, and therefore on energy prices
RE: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
I did! Thank you for it. Nothing special I'm aware of. Do you belief than LENR will change the energy market in less than 3 years? _ From: James Bowery [mailto:jabow...@gmail.com] Sent: samedi 9 mars 2013 01:01 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com You didn't click through the link and watch the presentation by Anderson. Do so. On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: I don't understand what you exactly mean here? I'm aware of the new robotization revolution (Baxter robot, and the same arm multi purposes robots ...), but anyway, you can't change the all economy in a few winks. Moreover, in the beginning, there will have a huge fight against LENR by lobbyists before it could be mass market. Let just hope than we will be fester than the east Asian in this run. From: James Bowery [mailto:jabow...@gmail.com] Sent: vendredi 8 mars 2013 22:29 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com You're one minor and one major industrial revolution behind in this analysis: Minor: The emergence of the east Asian giants has already fundamentally changed the political economics of technology deployment. They are much less encumbered than is the West and much more motivated to apply their manufacturing flexibility. This is like a combination of the Nazi economic miracle and the post-war German economic miracle. Major: Click on The Makers Revolution On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: This article from Oilprice.com is a really good bullshit. It will take ages before LENR will have an impact on oil prices, and therefore on energy prices
Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
Ah, I only read as far as your phrase will take ages where you called bullshit. 3 to 4 years out (not exactly ages ), you're right: the futures contracts are unlikely to be significantly altered by the announcement of fully functional Hot-CAT from Rossi or similar announcement. On the other hand the market cap of oil company shares take into account the value of resources in the ground and those quite possibly could be affected significantly within 3 to 4 years of such an announcement. On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 6:06 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: ** I did! Thank you for it. Nothing special I’m aware of. ** ** Do you belief than LENR will change the energy market in less than 3 years? ** ** -- *From:* James Bowery [mailto:jabow...@gmail.com] *Sent:* samedi 9 mars 2013 01:01 *To:* **vortex-l@eskimo.com** *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com ** ** You didn't click through the link and watch the presentation by Anderson.* *** ** ** Do so. On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: I don't understand what you exactly mean here? I'm aware of the new robotization revolution (Baxter robot, and the same arm multi purposes robots ...), but anyway, you can't change the all economy in a few winks. Moreover, in the beginning, there will have a huge fight against LENR by lobbyists before it could be mass market. Let just hope than we will be fester than the east Asian in this run. From: James Bowery [mailto:jabow...@gmail.com] Sent: vendredi 8 mars 2013 22:29 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com You're one minor and one major industrial revolution behind in this analysis: Minor: The emergence of the east Asian giants has already fundamentally changed the political economics of technology deployment. They are much less encumbered than is the West and much more motivated to apply their manufacturing flexibility. This is like a combination of the Nazi economic miracle and the post-war German economic miracle. Major: Click on The Makers Revolution On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: This article from Oilprice.com is a really good bullshit. It will take ages before LENR will have an impact on oil prices, and therefore on energy prices ** **
Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: On the other hand the market cap of oil company shares take into account the value of resources in the ground and those quite possibly could be affected significantly within 3 to 4 years of such an announcement. A close friend of mine is an economist. He says that the valuation of any company extends into the future for decades. In this case, he said that if it becomes generally known that a form of cold fusion is commercially useful, and if nearly everyone agrees that is true, that would mean oil companies have no long-term future. The present value of oil companies would plummet. The price of oil would also drop sharply, because the oil companies would want to sell off their inventory quickly. That has been my gut feeling for a long time. He confirmed it. In other words, it is not just the commodity value in 4 years that matters. In this situation the oil companies would be like companies manufacturing vacuum tubes in 1952, after transistors were announced. Even though not a single transistor had been sold. savvy people knew they would soon erode sales of vacuum tubes. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
It would be interesting to look at the surface of the inflation-adjusted price of triode vacuum tubes vs volume shipped through time from 1947. The same surface, substituting total market cap of vacuum tube companies for triod vacuum tube price would be an interesting comparison. On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 7:34 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: On the other hand the market cap of oil company shares take into account the value of resources in the ground and those quite possibly could be affected significantly within 3 to 4 years of such an announcement. A close friend of mine is an economist. He says that the valuation of any company extends into the future for decades. In this case, he said that if it becomes generally known that a form of cold fusion is commercially useful, and if nearly everyone agrees that is true, that would mean oil companies have no long-term future. The present value of oil companies would plummet. The price of oil would also drop sharply, because the oil companies would want to sell off their inventory quickly. That has been my gut feeling for a long time. He confirmed it. In other words, it is not just the commodity value in 4 years that matters. In this situation the oil companies would be like companies manufacturing vacuum tubes in 1952, after transistors were announced. Even though not a single transistor had been sold. savvy people knew they would soon erode sales of vacuum tubes. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: In other words, it is not just the commodity value in 4 years that matters. In this situation the oil companies would be like companies manufacturing vacuum tubes in 1952, after transistors were announced. Even though not a single transistor had been sold. savvy people knew they would soon erode sales of vacuum tubes. - Jed Return of the vacuum tube at the nano scale... http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2012/05/return-of-the-vacuum-tube.html Harry
Re: [Vo]:Speculation on Rossi from OILPRICE.com
Erratum: surface - parametric curve On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 7:44 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: It would be interesting to look at the surface of the inflation-adjusted price of triode vacuum tubes vs volume shipped through time from 1947. The same surface, substituting total market cap of vacuum tube companies for triod vacuum tube price would be an interesting comparison. On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 7:34 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: On the other hand the market cap of oil company shares take into account the value of resources in the ground and those quite possibly could be affected significantly within 3 to 4 years of such an announcement. A close friend of mine is an economist. He says that the valuation of any company extends into the future for decades. In this case, he said that if it becomes generally known that a form of cold fusion is commercially useful, and if nearly everyone agrees that is true, that would mean oil companies have no long-term future. The present value of oil companies would plummet. The price of oil would also drop sharply, because the oil companies would want to sell off their inventory quickly. That has been my gut feeling for a long time. He confirmed it. In other words, it is not just the commodity value in 4 years that matters. In this situation the oil companies would be like companies manufacturing vacuum tubes in 1952, after transistors were announced. Even though not a single transistor had been sold. savvy people knew they would soon erode sales of vacuum tubes. - Jed
