[Vo]:Re: North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?

[Bob Cook]

With Cooper Pairs and with paired electrons, the attraction (magnetic 
dipoles) seem to overcome the electrostatic repulsion.  That must be the "or 
not" option Robin has suggested.


Bob Cook

-Original Message- 
From: mix...@bigpond.com

Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 5:16 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?

In reply to  Bob Higgins's message of Sun, 10 Jan 2016 16:23:21 -0700:
Hi,
Since in this case we are talking about H or D Rydberg snowflakes, I think 
the electrons are all in large planar Rydberg orbitals and this hexagonal 
Rydberg snowflake would behave as a BEC.  Because of that, if one of the 
electrons were forced to take a different orbital, it may completely 
disrupt the cluster.  So I have been thinking about ways that the small 
separation could occur that could work across an entire snowflake all at 
once.


I have mentally postulated that as more and more "snowflakes" align and 
stack, perhaps the magnetic moment forces along the axis of the aligned 
atoms squeeze the layers together, just as 3 magnet disks stacked will 
produce a greater axial field than 2 magnet disks.  In the case of disk 
magnets, as the number in the stack increases, at some point the axial 
field will not continue to increase - because of the high permeability of 
the magnetic material, the field will leak out the sides.  It could be that 
these highly anisotropic Rydberg snowflakes may not suffer that effect and 
the axial magnetic field may continue to increase for a large number of 
stacked layers.

[snip]

The problem I have with this approach is that while the magnetic attraction 
does

increase with additional layers, so does the electrostatic repulsion, and
electrostatic force is always greater than or equal to magnetic force (or 
not?)


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?

[Teslaalset]

There may still be the issue of sufficient lifetime of UDD to be resolved
though.

On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 5:54 AM, John Berry  wrote:

> Jones, I appreciate the recap.
>
> But while I appreciate that there may be breakthroughs and perhaps this
> one goes above the level my post considered...
>
> I was talking about conventional nuclear weapons that are declassified.
> Not black projects, not experimental research.
>
> Now you do make a good point, but I'm not sure we really know what Holmlid
> is doing currently, especially me since this is outside my area of active
> interest really.
>
> I am not sure if can be considered settled sciences well known to create a
> suitcase H-bomb with conventional nuclear yield.
> Are you sure it can be?
> If so that is scary!
>
> John
>
> On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 4:32 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>> You still are not on the right page, John.
>>
>> I think this is because you are unaware of Leif Holmlid’s work, and how
>> that work fits into the big picture of World politics. Holmlid is
>> showing complete mass conversion of nucleons into energy, which is a
>> step above nuclear fusion. He has been publishing this in peer reviewed
>> journals for a decade but AFAIK, none of his important experiments are
>> independently replicated, at least not in the USA.
>>
>> I will try to be more specific on the details. Going back to the
>> original premise, if we can believe both Professor Holmlid and North K
>> orea – then what we are facing is precarious situation for World Peace
>> which could be worse than imagined by experts. The points to consider
>> and combine are:
>>
>> 1)  Holmlid has presented a technique to make an ultra-dense from of
>> deuterium (UDD) which has a nucleon separation of 2.3 picometers.
>>
>> 2)  This material has been shown to be much easier to fuse than
>> normal deuterium. In fact, Holmlid can fuse UDD and even cause complete
>> nucleon disintegration, using only a milliwatt laser for triggering.
>>
>> 3)  NK has been involved in LENR since about 2001, according to an
>> earlier press release. They certainly are capable of doing sophisticated 
>> research
>> in nuclear physics and can be assumed to have read Holmlid’s papers.
>>
>> 4)  NK has this week tested what they call a compact “hydrogen bomb”
>> but the yield is in the range of few kilotons – far less than a fission
>> triggered fusion type of H-bomb and less than a boosted design.
>>
>> 5)  This combination of salient facts, if true, leads to only a few c
>> onclusions about what is really going on behind the scenes.
>>
>> 6)  One conclusion, which may be unlikely but which cannot be
>> ignored, is that NK has managed to make enough of the Holmlid deuterium
>> (UDD), or even UDDT, to weaponized.
>>
>> 7)  The great risk of open-research on the internet is that an
>> exotic material such as UDD, which can be easily converted into energy,
>> can be produced and disintegrated without a fission trigger by a Rogue
>> Nation or well-funded terrorist group.
>>
>> 8)  For instance, if you do the numbers to extrapolate from Holmlid’s
>> tests to the 5 kiloton explosion which did happen this week – then it is
>> possible that a few grams of UDD could produce that kind of result if
>> fully disintegrated into muons. The ratio for comparative energy of UDD
>> to TNT is about one billion to one. The NK could even have used laser
>> triggering.
>>
>>
>> For a sardonic laugh, imagine 1,000 laser-pointers surrounding a tiny fuel
>> pellet like mini version of NIF.
>>
>>
>> *From:* John Berry
>>
>> Looking it up, Boosted Fission if a Fission-Fusion bomb where the Fusion
>> instead of being the main event is merely a minor improver of Fission
>> efficiency.
>>
>> Fusion Fission (as a bomb) is not possibly according to anything
>> declassified or any known physics within reason.
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?

[Bob Higgins]

>From my understanding of Holmlid's work, the UDD description (Ultra-Dense
Deuterium) would not be an appropriate description even if what he proposes
to happen really does happen.  Please explain this to me if I have gotten
it wrong.

What Holmlid proposes is that planar hexagonal Rydberg clusters of
deuterium can form stacks where the inter-nucleus spacing in the stack can
be 2.3 pm.  The hexagonal Rydberg clusters are essentially planar with an
inter-nucleus spacing that is bigger than D2 gas.  So, in one dimension,
along the column of the stack, Holmlid claims that the inter-nucleus
spacing is 2.3 pm, while in the other 2 dimensions the inter-nucleus
spacing is 100x bigger.  From a density standpoint, this would be a set of
linear strings.  How do you ascribe density to something that is a linear
string?  It would certainly be a tensor.

If you go on to propose that fusion is possible on a large scale from a
collection of a large amount of this matter, how do you compress strings of
matter to begin fusion?  It would be like compressing a rope by pushing on
its ends.

I am not convinced at all that Holmlid's strings of "UDD" exist.  The
existence of the low density hexagonal Rydberg "snowflakes" of hydrogen is
a fairly well established fact.  I cannot see how any of this is a path to
large scale fusion even if it exists.

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 9:03 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> *From:* Teslaalset
>
> Ø   There may still be the issue of sufficient lifetime of UDD to be
> resolved though.
>
> Yes, it could be short. Has anyone seen recent data on average lifetime
> from Holmlid?
>
> We know that metallic hydrogen, as previously described in the literature, is
> not stable unless kept under extreme pressure. The assumption has been that
> whatever species corresponds to UDD is not this kind of metallic hydrogen
> (the previously described variety) … although it could be metallic. Thus
> the confusion. There could, in fact, be several varieties of condensed
> hydrogen which are possible, including whatever Mills’ theory suggests.
>
> Holmlid’s UDD is far denser than the metallic hydrogen which is made in a
> diamond anvil press. That would mean that shock compression is
> fundamentally more efficient than mechanical compression.
>
> One detail which would make my day, and yours too - would be an emission
> line coming from the decay of the Holmlid version of UDD which matches
> the 3.5 keV emission line which is turning up everywhere these days in
> cosmology.
>
> This would mean that UDD is probably the same species as “dark matter”
> and it would provide greatly needed secondary validity to Holmlid’s claims.
>
>

RE: [Vo]:North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?

[Jones Beene]

From: Teslaalset 

*   There may still be the issue of sufficient lifetime of UDD to be 
resolved though. 

Yes, it could be short. Has anyone seen recent data on average lifetime from 
Holmlid? 

We know that metallic hydrogen, as previously described in the literature, is 
not stable unless kept under extreme pressure. The assumption has been that 
whatever species corresponds to UDD is not this kind of metallic hydrogen (the 
previously described variety) … although it could be metallic. Thus the 
confusion. There could, in fact, be several varieties of condensed hydrogen 
which are possible, including whatever Mills’ theory suggests.

Holmlid’s UDD is far denser than the metallic hydrogen which is made in a 
diamond anvil press. That would mean that shock compression is fundamentally 
more efficient than mechanical compression.

One detail which would make my day, and yours too - would be an emission line 
coming from the decay of the Holmlid version of UDD which matches the 3.5 keV 
emission line which is turning up everywhere these days in cosmology. 

This would mean that UDD is probably the same species as “dark matter” and it 
would provide greatly needed secondary validity to Holmlid’s claims.

RE: [Vo]:North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?

[Roarty, Francis X]

Jones, I’ve been stuck in a mode considering anomalous forms of hydrogen as 
free flowing molecules exposed to surrounding tapestry of metal lattice, but 
your suggestion of “metalized hydrogen”  makes me consider a solid solution. 
could metallic hydrogen self catalyze such that it doesn’t need the intense 
pressure other than an “immediate” tapestry surrounding it, ie self catalyzing 
in Millsian fashion within a parent lattice from which it builds inward ? I 
still subscribe to the Naudts relativistic proposal but applied now to this 
solid concept where perhaps the parent lattice maintains the solid foundation 
and then successive layers of proportionally shrunken metal hydrogen lattice 
grow /push inward  away from the parent lattice “down a well”  where each 
successive layer is exposed to fewer and fewer virtual particles in a negative 
Lorenztian like manner without the need for near C displacement. My proposal 
being that metalized hydrogen can load much further down into the interstial 
space of the parent lattice and  grow instead extra dimensionally outward. 
Reactions at the extreme excursions of these extradimensional wells would 
achieve large values of spatial displacement and temporal dilation but being a 
solid would provide mechanical linkage back to our frame. Could relativistic 
displacement and mechanical linkage together explain some of the strange 
anomalies with LENR like spectrum shifts, lack of Gamma radiation, modified 
half lives and even a recent thread about radiation not measured near the 
reactor wall but measured further away?
Fran

From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 11:03 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?


From: Teslaalset

>   There may still be the issue of sufficient lifetime of UDD to be 
> resolved though.

Yes, it could be short. Has anyone seen recent data on average lifetime from 
Holmlid?

We know that metallic hydrogen, as previously described in the literature, is 
not stable unless kept under extreme pressure. The assumption has been that 
whatever species corresponds to UDD is not this kind of metallic hydrogen (the 
previously described variety) … although it could be metallic. Thus the 
confusion. There could, in fact, be several varieties of condensed hydrogen 
which are possible, including whatever Mills’ theory suggests.

Holmlid’s UDD is far denser than the metallic hydrogen which is made in a 
diamond anvil press. That would mean that shock compression is fundamentally 
more efficient than mechanical compression.

One detail which would make my day, and yours too - would be an emission line 
coming from the decay of the Holmlid version of UDD which matches the 3.5 keV 
emission line which is turning up everywhere these days in cosmology.

This would mean that UDD is probably the same species as “dark matter” and it 
would provide greatly needed secondary validity to Holmlid’s claims.

[Vo]:IN LENR FREE SPEECH IS RESPONSIBLE SPEECH

[Peter Gluck]

http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/01/jan-10-2016-lenr-appeal-to-sincerity.html

There a re things more important than playing your roles well
I created the historical context here for telling wht you think, deniers of
LENR+ i.e E-Cats..
No risk, in the worst case you will be hit from inside never from outside.
Your Jiminy Cricket will understand what you have done.

Peter
-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?

[Bob Higgins]

My understanding was that the hexagonal iron oxide catalyst was responsible
for making the planar hexagonal Rydberg "snowflakes".  These "snowflakes"
form a dusty plasma in his system and spontaneously align to form stacks of
"snowflakes" having the 2.3 pm separation [Winterberg].  I don't think the
iron oxide is responsible for anything but forming the pre-cursor hexagonal
Rydberg "snowflakes" that then forms the dusty plasma.

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 12:23 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> *From:* Bob Higgins
>
> Ø   I am not convinced at all that Holmlid's strings of "UDD" exist.
> The existence of the low density hexagonal Rydberg "snowflakes" of hydrogen
> is a fairly well established fact.  I cannot see how any of this is a path
> to large scale fusion even if it exists.
>
> As I understand Holmlid’s argument - iron oxide is the matrix which makes
> it all happen. Iron oxide is naturally structured as nanoporous, with
> holes of one nanometer diameter which are located in the center of hexagons
> of iron-oxide, and which align as deep narrow wells. Presumably, the
> strings of UDD would be positioned inside these deep holes like drilling
> strings, providing an extended lifetime but requiring that the matrix
> must also be included as part of the fuel.
>
> Although it would appear at first glance that this structure is mostly
> iron oxide, the spacing of the stacked layers in the strings is so close
> (2.3 pm), that there would be many more actual atoms of UDD compared to
> the matrix.
>
> Until there is independent replication, I agree with Bob that this is not
> convincing on its own. Yet, it should be relatively easy to show some
> previous anomaly in hydrogen loaded iron-oxide due to the industrial
> importance.
>
> In fact, using hydrogen to reduce hematite was once considered as a way
> to make pure steel from iron ore with no coal. Sooner or later I will get
> around to digging up old papers looking for reported thermal anomalies.
>
>

RE: [Vo]:North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?

[Jones Beene]

From: Bob Higgins 

*   I am not convinced at all that Holmlid's strings of "UDD" exist.  The 
existence of the low density hexagonal Rydberg "snowflakes" of hydrogen is a 
fairly well established fact.  I cannot see how any of this is a path to large 
scale fusion even if it exists.
As I understand Holmlid’s argument - iron oxide is the matrix which makes it 
all happen. Iron oxide is naturally structured as nanoporous, with holes of one 
nanometer diameter which are located in the center of hexagons of iron-oxide, 
and which align as deep narrow wells. Presumably, the strings of UDD would be 
positioned inside these deep holes like drilling strings, providing an extended 
lifetime but requiring that the matrix must also be included as part of the 
fuel. 
Although it would appear at first glance that this structure is mostly iron 
oxide, the spacing of the stacked layers in the strings is so close (2.3 pm), 
that there would be many more actual atoms of UDD compared to the matrix.
Until there is independent replication, I agree with Bob that this is not 
convincing on its own. Yet, it should be relatively easy to show some previous 
anomaly in hydrogen loaded iron-oxide due to the industrial importance. 
In fact, using hydrogen to reduce hematite was once considered as a way to make 
pure steel from iron ore with no coal. Sooner or later I will get around to 
digging up old papers looking for reported thermal anomalies.

RE: [Vo]:North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?

[Jones Beene]

Bob,

 

Winterberg’s understanding differs from Holmlid’s and Holmlid’s older papers 
have been modified considerably in the newer ones. Many details are in a state 
of flux. The snowflakes could be far smaller.

 

The overarching argument is that Mills, Holmlid, Winterberg, Miley, Hora and 
all the others who have explored the theme of condensed hydrogen clusters, 
could be partly right and partly wrong.

 

I do not have a problem with a mashup of all of them.

 

From: Bob Higgins 

 

Ø  My understanding was that the hexagonal iron oxide catalyst was responsible 
for making the planar hexagonal Rydberg "snowflakes".  These "snowflakes" form 
a dusty plasma in his system and spontaneously align to form stacks of 
"snowflakes" having the 2.3 pm separation [Winterberg].  I don't think the iron 
oxide is responsible for anything but forming the pre-cursor hexagonal Rydberg 
"snowflakes" that then forms the dusty plasma.

 

From: Bob Higgins 

Ø I am not convinced at all that Holmlid's strings of "UDD" exist.  The 
existence of the low density hexagonal Rydberg "snowflakes" of hydrogen is a 
fairly well established fact.  I cannot see how any of this is a path to large 
scale fusion even if it exists.

As I understand Holmlid’s argument - iron oxide is the matrix which makes it 
all happen. Iron oxide is naturally structured as nanoporous, with holes of one 
nanometer diameter which are located in the center of hexagons of iron-oxide, 
and which align as deep narrow wells. Presumably, the strings of UDD would be 
positioned inside these deep holes like drilling strings, providing an extended 
lifetime but requiring that the matrix must also be included as part of the 
fuel. 

Although it would appear at first glance that this structure is mostly iron 
oxide, the spacing of the stacked layers in the strings is so close (2.3 pm), 
that there would be many more actual atoms of UDD compared to the matrix.

Until there is independent replication, I agree with Bob that this is not 
convincing on its own. Yet, it should be relatively easy to show some previous 
anomaly in hydrogen loaded iron-oxide due to the industrial importance. 

In fact, using hydrogen to reduce hematite was once considered as a way to make 
pure steel from iron ore with no coal. Sooner or later I will get around to 
digging up old papers looking for reported thermal anomalies.

 

Re: [Vo]:North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?

[mixent]

In reply to  Bob Higgins's message of Sun, 10 Jan 2016 10:51:47 -0700:
Hi,

This message will only make sense if viewed with a fixed width font.
[snip]
>What Holmlid proposes is that planar hexagonal Rydberg clusters of deuterium 
>can form stacks where the inter-nucleus spacing in the stack can be 2.3 pm.  
>The hexagonal Rydberg clusters are essentially planar with an inter-nucleus 
>spacing that is bigger than D2 gas.  So, in one dimension, along the column of 
>the stack, Holmlid claims that the inter-nucleus spacing is 2.3 pm, while in 
>the other 2 dimensions the inter-nucleus spacing is 100x bigger.  From a 
>density standpoint, this would be a set of linear strings.  How do you ascribe 
>density to something that is a linear string?  It would certainly be a tensor.
[snip]
I was going to write:-

What makes me highly skeptical of the claim is that I see no way to get two
deuterons (or protons for that matter), within 2.3 pm of one another while the
electrons are hundreds of pm away.

...when it occurred to me that the columns might interleave, such that the
electrons from one layer came between the nuclei from the layers above and
below. The spacing between layers would then be half of 2.3 pm.

Imagine pushing two parallel "cylinders" into one another until the wall of each
reached the axis of the other, with the layers of each "cylinder" interleaving
with those of the other.)

A1  A2
E   N   E
E   N   E
E   N   E
E   N   E
E   N   E
E   N   E

Each E N E layer is actually a single atom where the two E's represent a single
electron in a circular orbit. N stands for nucleus. A1 is the axis of the first
vertical cylinder. A2 is the axis of the second vertical cylinder.

I wonder if coincidentally(?) the vertical separation distance is the fine
structure constant times the radius??



Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?

[Bob Higgins]

There is no way that the UDD as described by Holmlid/Winterberg could enter
ANY metal lattice.  The Ni lattice does not admit even neutral monatomic
hydrogen and the Rydberg snowflake stacks that form UDD are much bigger
than an H2 molecule.

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Teslaalset 
wrote:

> Holmlid suggests 0.18 s lifetime possible. See:
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/244327849_Formation_of_long-lived_Rydberg_states_of_H_2_at_K_impregnated_surfaces
>
> Question is, when UDD realy exists, does it allow to store in metal
> lattices (e.g. Nickel) and when so, will this expand it’s lifetime?
>
>

Re: [Vo]:North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?

[Teslaalset]

Holmlid suggests 0.18 s lifetime possible. See:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/244327849_Formation_of_long-lived_Rydberg_states_of_H_2_at_K_impregnated_surfaces

Question is, when UDD realy exists, does it allow to store in metal
lattices (e.g. Nickel) and when so, will this expand it’s lifetime?



On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Teslaalset 
wrote:

> There may still be the issue of sufficient lifetime of UDD to be resolved
> though.
>
> On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 5:54 AM, John Berry  wrote:
>
>> Jones, I appreciate the recap.
>>
>> But while I appreciate that there may be breakthroughs and perhaps this
>> one goes above the level my post considered...
>>
>> I was talking about conventional nuclear weapons that are declassified.
>> Not black projects, not experimental research.
>>
>> Now you do make a good point, but I'm not sure we really know what
>> Holmlid is doing currently, especially me since this is outside my area
>> of active interest really.
>>
>> I am not sure if can be considered settled sciences well known to create
>> a suitcase H-bomb with conventional nuclear yield.
>> Are you sure it can be?
>> If so that is scary!
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 4:32 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>>
>>> You still are not on the right page, John.
>>>
>>> I think this is because you are unaware of Leif Holmlid’s work, and how
>>> that work fits into the big picture of World politics. Holmlid is
>>> showing complete mass conversion of nucleons into energy, which is a
>>> step above nuclear fusion. He has been publishing this in peer reviewed
>>> journals for a decade but AFAIK, none of his important experiments are
>>> independently replicated, at least not in the USA.
>>>
>>> I will try to be more specific on the details. Going back to the
>>> original premise, if we can believe both Professor Holmlid and North K
>>> orea – then what we are facing is precarious situation for World Peace
>>> which could be worse than imagined by experts. The points to consider
>>> and combine are:
>>>
>>> 1)  Holmlid has presented a technique to make an ultra-dense from
>>> of deuterium (UDD) which has a nucleon separation of 2.3 picometers.
>>>
>>> 2)  This material has been shown to be much easier to fuse than
>>> normal deuterium. In fact, Holmlid can fuse UDD and even cause complete
>>> nucleon disintegration, using only a milliwatt laser for triggering.
>>>
>>> 3)  NK has been involved in LENR since about 2001, according to an
>>> earlier press release. They certainly are capable of doing sophisticated 
>>> research
>>> in nuclear physics and can be assumed to have read Holmlid’s papers.
>>>
>>> 4)  NK has this week tested what they call a compact “hydrogen
>>> bomb” but the yield is in the range of few kilotons – far less than a
>>> fission triggered fusion type of H-bomb and less than a boosted design.
>>>
>>> 5)  This combination of salient facts, if true, leads to only a few
>>> conclusions about what is really going on behind the scenes.
>>>
>>> 6)  One conclusion, which may be unlikely but which cannot be
>>> ignored, is that NK has managed to make enough of the Holmlid deuterium
>>> (UDD), or even UDDT, to weaponized.
>>>
>>> 7)  The great risk of open-research on the internet is that an
>>> exotic material such as UDD, which can be easily converted into energy,
>>> can be produced and disintegrated without a fission trigger by a Rogue
>>> Nation or well-funded terrorist group.
>>>
>>> 8)  For instance, if you do the numbers to extrapolate from Holmlid’s
>>> tests to the 5 kiloton explosion which did happen this week – then it
>>> is possible that a few grams of UDD could produce that kind of result if
>>> fully disintegrated into muons. The ratio for comparative energy of UDD
>>> to TNT is about one billion to one. The NK could even have used laser
>>> triggering.
>>>
>>>
>>> For a sardonic laugh, imagine 1,000 laser-pointers surrounding a tiny fuel
>>> pellet like mini version of NIF.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* John Berry
>>>
>>> Looking it up, Boosted Fission if a Fission-Fusion bomb where the Fusion
>>> instead of being the main event is merely a minor improver of Fission
>>> efficiency.
>>>
>>> Fusion Fission (as a bomb) is not possibly according to anything
>>> declassified or any known physics within reason.
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?

[Bob Higgins]

I think the argument being offered is that because the Rydberg matter has
such large diameter electron orbitals, there is a high magnetic moment for
these materials.  When one ~2D hexagonal Rydberg "snowflake" is put atop
another, the magnetic moments align like two disk magnets oriented
N-S-N-S.

Since in this case we are talking about H or D Rydberg snowflakes, I think
the electrons are all in large planar Rydberg orbitals and this hexagonal
Rydberg snowflake would behave as a BEC.  Because of that, if one of the
electrons were forced to take a different orbital, it may completely
disrupt the cluster.  So I have been thinking about ways that the small
separation could occur that could work across an entire snowflake all at
once.

I have mentally postulated that as more and more "snowflakes" align and
stack, perhaps the magnetic moment forces along the axis of the aligned
atoms squeeze the layers together, just as 3 magnet disks stacked will
produce a greater axial field than 2 magnet disks.  In the case of disk
magnets, as the number in the stack increases, at some point the axial
field will not continue to increase - because of the high permeability of
the magnetic material, the field will leak out the sides.  It could be that
these highly anisotropic Rydberg snowflakes may not suffer that effect and
the axial magnetic field may continue to increase for a large number of
stacked layers.

Also, in that same vein... if one of the electrons in a Rydberg cluster
(presume BEC) were excited out of the Rydberg state (ionized) perhaps by a
photon interaction, the whole snowflake could self-destruct.  If it were an
inner layer for a large stack of snowflakes that self-destructed, you could
have the effect of the magnetic field of many stacked snowflakes acting on
the particles - sort of a magnetic explosion.  In that case, it may be
possible that a particle could receive magnetic accelerations from many
layers at once - a large number of atoms in the stack acting upon the few
particles of the disintegrating inner layer that was ionized by the
photon.  In that case, the energy supplied may not represent Coulombic
explosion, but instead an Oersted explosion with many particles acting on a
few.  Then the whole business of the 2.3 pm spacing, based solely on
Coulombic explosion calculations, is pure poppycock.

However, I do not understand Winterberg's postulate entirely and this
magnetic theory of mine could be total crap.

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 1:54 PM,  wrote:

> In reply to  Bob Higgins's message of Sun, 10 Jan 2016 10:51:47 -0700:
> Hi,
>
> This message will only make sense if viewed with a fixed width font.
> [snip]
> >What Holmlid proposes is that planar hexagonal Rydberg clusters of
> deuterium can form stacks where the inter-nucleus spacing in the stack can
> be 2.3 pm.  The hexagonal Rydberg clusters are essentially planar with an
> inter-nucleus spacing that is bigger than D2 gas.  So, in one dimension,
> along the column of the stack, Holmlid claims that the inter-nucleus
> spacing is 2.3 pm, while in the other 2 dimensions the inter-nucleus
> spacing is 100x bigger.  From a density standpoint, this would be a set of
> linear strings.  How do you ascribe density to something that is a linear
> string?  It would certainly be a tensor.
> [snip]
> I was going to write:-
>
> What makes me highly skeptical of the claim is that I see no way to get two
> deuterons (or protons for that matter), within 2.3 pm of one another while
> the
> electrons are hundreds of pm away.
>
> ...when it occurred to me that the columns might interleave, such that the
> electrons from one layer came between the nuclei from the layers above and
> below. The spacing between layers would then be half of 2.3 pm.
>
> Imagine pushing two parallel "cylinders" into one another until the wall
> of each
> reached the axis of the other, with the layers of each "cylinder"
> interleaving
> with those of the other.)
>
> A1  A2
> E   N   E
> E   N   E
> E   N   E
> E   N   E
> E   N   E
> E   N   E
>
> Each E N E layer is actually a single atom where the two E's represent a
> single
> electron in a circular orbit. N stands for nucleus. A1 is the axis of the
> first
> vertical cylinder. A2 is the axis of the second vertical cylinder.
>
> I wonder if coincidentally(?) the vertical separation distance is the fine
> structure constant times the radius??
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>
>

[Vo]:Re: North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?

[Bob Cook]

Assuming that whatever the reaction is that produces a lot of energy from 
potential energy, that energy must be distributed as heat without destroying 
the structure allowing the coupling—potential energy to heat.  In this regard I 
would consider that there is a condensate or other coherent system which allows 
includes this coupling.  The magnetic field that Higgins suggests may be such a 
coupling mechanism, allowing the electronic structure of the snowflakes  to 
accept the potential energy changes—maybe nuclear mass reductions—without the 
damaging, high—kinetic---energy individual particles and the radiation 
associated with these particles.  

For what its worth, any idea that is not correct is “total crap” which there 
must be a good deal of given the variety of ideas.

Bob Cook



From: Bob Higgins 
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 3:23 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?

I think the argument being offered is that because the Rydberg matter has such 
large diameter electron orbitals, there is a high magnetic moment for these 
materials.  When one ~2D hexagonal Rydberg "snowflake" is put atop another, the 
magnetic moments align like two disk magnets oriented N-S-N-S.  


Since in this case we are talking about H or D Rydberg snowflakes, I think the 
electrons are all in large planar Rydberg orbitals and this hexagonal Rydberg 
snowflake would behave as a BEC.  Because of that, if one of the electrons were 
forced to take a different orbital, it may completely disrupt the cluster.  So 
I have been thinking about ways that the small separation could occur that 
could work across an entire snowflake all at once.


I have mentally postulated that as more and more "snowflakes" align and stack, 
perhaps the magnetic moment forces along the axis of the aligned atoms squeeze 
the layers together, just as 3 magnet disks stacked will produce a greater 
axial field than 2 magnet disks.  In the case of disk magnets, as the number in 
the stack increases, at some point the axial field will not continue to 
increase - because of the high permeability of the magnetic material, the field 
will leak out the sides.  It could be that these highly anisotropic Rydberg 
snowflakes may not suffer that effect and the axial magnetic field may continue 
to increase for a large number of stacked layers.


Also, in that same vein... if one of the electrons in a Rydberg cluster 
(presume BEC) were excited out of the Rydberg state (ionized) perhaps by a 
photon interaction, the whole snowflake could self-destruct.  If it were an 
inner layer for a large stack of snowflakes that self-destructed, you could 
have the effect of the magnetic field of many stacked snowflakes acting on the 
particles - sort of a magnetic explosion.  In that case, it may be possible 
that a particle could receive magnetic accelerations from many layers at once - 
a large number of atoms in the stack acting upon the few particles of the 
disintegrating inner layer that was ionized by the photon.  In that case, the 
energy supplied may not represent Coulombic explosion, but instead an Oersted 
explosion with many particles acting on a few.  Then the whole business of the 
2.3 pm spacing, based solely on Coulombic explosion calculations, is pure 
poppycock.


However, I do not understand Winterberg's postulate entirely and this magnetic 
theory of mine could be total crap.

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 1:54 PM,  wrote:

  In reply to  Bob Higgins's message of Sun, 10 Jan 2016 10:51:47 -0700:
  Hi,

  This message will only make sense if viewed with a fixed width font.
  [snip]
  >What Holmlid proposes is that planar hexagonal Rydberg clusters of deuterium 
can form stacks where the inter-nucleus spacing in the stack can be 2.3 pm.  
The hexagonal Rydberg clusters are essentially planar with an inter-nucleus 
spacing that is bigger than D2 gas.  So, in one dimension, along the column of 
the stack, Holmlid claims that the inter-nucleus spacing is 2.3 pm, while in 
the other 2 dimensions the inter-nucleus spacing is 100x bigger.  From a 
density standpoint, this would be a set of linear strings.  How do you ascribe 
density to something that is a linear string?  It would certainly be a tensor.
  [snip]
  I was going to write:-

  What makes me highly skeptical of the claim is that I see no way to get two
  deuterons (or protons for that matter), within 2.3 pm of one another while the
  electrons are hundreds of pm away.

  ...when it occurred to me that the columns might interleave, such that the
  electrons from one layer came between the nuclei from the layers above and
  below. The spacing between layers would then be half of 2.3 pm.

  Imagine pushing two parallel "cylinders" into one another until the wall of 
each
  reached the axis of the other, with the layers of each "cylinder" interleaving
  with those of the other.)

  A1  A2
  E   N

RE: [Vo]:Re: North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?

[Jones Beene]

It is probably a good idea to get away from the terminology of snowflakes 
and/or Rydberg matter, due to the lack of specificity in meaning. 

 

In the older paper with Miley and Hora, Holmlid called the UDD species: 
“Inverted Rydberg hydrogen” or IRH indicating that there is no expansive 
electron spacing, as expected in normal Rydberg matter. Thus, this species is 
technically NOT Rydberg matter unless modified to express the inverted state. 
To complicate things, Holmlid decided to drop the IRH terminology in favor of 
UDD, although Miley apparently still uses it.

 

L. Holmlid, H. Hora, G. Miley and X. Yang, "Ultrahigh-density deuterium of 
Rydberg matter clusters for inertial confinement fusion targets". Laser and 
Particle Beams 27 (2009) 529–532.

 

The clearest paper on this subject of like-charge attraction with dislocated 
electrons which are close by - could be that of Nabil Lawandy: “Interactions of 
charged particles on surfaces”… yet has different predictions

http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/journal/apl/95/23/10.1063/1.3270537

 

“Charges of the same polarity bound to a surface with a large dielectric 
contrast exhibit an attractive long-range Coulomb interaction, which leads to a 
two-particle bound state. Ensembles of like charges experience a collective 
long-range interaction, which results in compacted structures with 
interparticle separations that can be orders of magnitude smaller than the 
equilibrium separation of the pair potential minimum. Simulations indicate that 
ensembles of surface bound nuclei, such as D or T, exhibit separations small 
enough to result in significant rates of fusion.”

 

 

Re: [Vo]:North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?

[mixent]

In reply to  Bob Higgins's message of Sun, 10 Jan 2016 16:23:21 -0700:
Hi,

I wrote:-

"The problem I have with this approach is that while the magnetic attraction
does increase with additional layers, so does the electrostatic repulsion, and
electrostatic force is always greater than or equal to magnetic force (or not?)"

Upon reconsidering this, it occurs to me that each individual atom will be
electrically neutral, so stacking them probably wont add much if anything to the
electrostatic repulsion. The magnetic fields OTOH will add because the magnetic
field of the electron will be much different to that of the proton/deuteron.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?

[mixent]

In reply to  Bob Higgins's message of Sun, 10 Jan 2016 16:23:21 -0700:
Hi,
>Since in this case we are talking about H or D Rydberg snowflakes, I think the 
>electrons are all in large planar Rydberg orbitals and this hexagonal Rydberg 
>snowflake would behave as a BEC.  Because of that, if one of the electrons 
>were forced to take a different orbital, it may completely disrupt the 
>cluster.  So I have been thinking about ways that the small separation could 
>occur that could work across an entire snowflake all at once.
>
>I have mentally postulated that as more and more "snowflakes" align and stack, 
>perhaps the magnetic moment forces along the axis of the aligned atoms squeeze 
>the layers together, just as 3 magnet disks stacked will produce a greater 
>axial field than 2 magnet disks.  In the case of disk magnets, as the number 
>in the stack increases, at some point the axial field will not continue to 
>increase - because of the high permeability of the magnetic material, the 
>field will leak out the sides.  It could be that these highly anisotropic 
>Rydberg snowflakes may not suffer that effect and the axial magnetic field may 
>continue to increase for a large number of stacked layers.
[snip]

The problem I have with this approach is that while the magnetic attraction does
increase with additional layers, so does the electrostatic repulsion, and
electrostatic force is always greater than or equal to magnetic force (or not?)

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:North Korea... and the UDD "candle"?

[Axil Axil]

It is currently assumed that hot fusion occurs inside the sun and stars.
but could cold fusion power the nuclear reactions at the center on the sun?
Could liquid hydrogen be so impervious to change that it defeats the hot
fusion process?

If LeClair's water crystal can produce supernova level nuclear reactions:
the transmutation of transuranic elements without being affected in any
way, how could this type of hydrogen produce hot fusion? LeClair says that
the water crystal can handle pressure in cavitation beyond 10,000,000 bar
without being destroyed.

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Bob Higgins 
wrote:

> I think the argument being offered is that because the Rydberg matter has
> such large diameter electron orbitals, there is a high magnetic moment for
> these materials.  When one ~2D hexagonal Rydberg "snowflake" is put atop
> another, the magnetic moments align like two disk magnets oriented
> N-S-N-S.
>
> Since in this case we are talking about H or D Rydberg snowflakes, I think
> the electrons are all in large planar Rydberg orbitals and this hexagonal
> Rydberg snowflake would behave as a BEC.  Because of that, if one of the
> electrons were forced to take a different orbital, it may completely
> disrupt the cluster.  So I have been thinking about ways that the small
> separation could occur that could work across an entire snowflake all at
> once.
>
> I have mentally postulated that as more and more "snowflakes" align and
> stack, perhaps the magnetic moment forces along the axis of the aligned
> atoms squeeze the layers together, just as 3 magnet disks stacked will
> produce a greater axial field than 2 magnet disks.  In the case of disk
> magnets, as the number in the stack increases, at some point the axial
> field will not continue to increase - because of the high permeability of
> the magnetic material, the field will leak out the sides.  It could be that
> these highly anisotropic Rydberg snowflakes may not suffer that effect and
> the axial magnetic field may continue to increase for a large number of
> stacked layers.
>
> Also, in that same vein... if one of the electrons in a Rydberg cluster
> (presume BEC) were excited out of the Rydberg state (ionized) perhaps by a
> photon interaction, the whole snowflake could self-destruct.  If it were an
> inner layer for a large stack of snowflakes that self-destructed, you could
> have the effect of the magnetic field of many stacked snowflakes acting on
> the particles - sort of a magnetic explosion.  In that case, it may be
> possible that a particle could receive magnetic accelerations from many
> layers at once - a large number of atoms in the stack acting upon the few
> particles of the disintegrating inner layer that was ionized by the
> photon.  In that case, the energy supplied may not represent Coulombic
> explosion, but instead an Oersted explosion with many particles acting on a
> few.  Then the whole business of the 2.3 pm spacing, based solely on
> Coulombic explosion calculations, is pure poppycock.
>
> However, I do not understand Winterberg's postulate entirely and this
> magnetic theory of mine could be total crap.
>
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 1:54 PM,  wrote:
>
>> In reply to  Bob Higgins's message of Sun, 10 Jan 2016 10:51:47 -0700:
>> Hi,
>>
>> This message will only make sense if viewed with a fixed width font.
>> [snip]
>> >What Holmlid proposes is that planar hexagonal Rydberg clusters of
>> deuterium can form stacks where the inter-nucleus spacing in the stack can
>> be 2.3 pm.  The hexagonal Rydberg clusters are essentially planar with an
>> inter-nucleus spacing that is bigger than D2 gas.  So, in one dimension,
>> along the column of the stack, Holmlid claims that the inter-nucleus
>> spacing is 2.3 pm, while in the other 2 dimensions the inter-nucleus
>> spacing is 100x bigger.  From a density standpoint, this would be a set of
>> linear strings.  How do you ascribe density to something that is a linear
>> string?  It would certainly be a tensor.
>> [snip]
>> I was going to write:-
>>
>> What makes me highly skeptical of the claim is that I see no way to get
>> two
>> deuterons (or protons for that matter), within 2.3 pm of one another
>> while the
>> electrons are hundreds of pm away.
>>
>> ...when it occurred to me that the columns might interleave, such that the
>> electrons from one layer came between the nuclei from the layers above and
>> below. The spacing between layers would then be half of 2.3 pm.
>>
>> Imagine pushing two parallel "cylinders" into one another until the wall
>> of each
>> reached the axis of the other, with the layers of each "cylinder"
>> interleaving
>> with those of the other.)
>>
>> A1  A2
>> E   N   E
>> E   N   E
>> E   N   E
>> E   N   E
>> E   N   E
>> E