Re: How would you calculate KE
--- Stephen A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please stop cross-posting to Vortex and other groups. OK. Just measure x0, x1, t0, and t1, plug them in, and you get v0. Then to find v1, v1 = v0 + a*Dt Hi Stephen, I'm using Final Velocity = average velocity + g * transit time / 2. Then final KE = 1/2m * Final Velocity^2 You happy with that? Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: 1997 - 2005 the missing SMOT years
--- Jed Rothwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Exactly right. What is it strange is that many of the people making these claims, including some well educated ones, do not seem to realize this. Hi Jed, So can I ship you a SMOT and the measurement system so you can prove the data I'm seeing is not real and your world is still secure ;-)? Basically the measurement system data shows: 1) The ball moves from a place of higher flux density to a place of lower flux density powered by magnets and gravity. 2) The ball has more final KE (at the place with less flux density) than it had initial PE (at the place of higher flux density). Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: How would you calculate KE
--- Stephen A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Obviously the KE is actually a little higher than that if the horizontal velocity is nonzero, There is almost no horizontal ball velocity on exit but the ball does have some rotational KE which I don't attempt to measure. To get a good exit all the ramp gained KE is given back to punch through the inline dragback at the end of the arrays to reach the Blue Hole and exit. A lot of the early stuff was in trying to hang onto ramp gained KE but that was a dead end and not the way to go. The PE site has a high resolution 1 second per frame AVI which shows this in good detail. Yahoo will not allow me to link it here. You must join the PE group to view the video or point me to a site where I can upload it for public viewing. If I understand what you're doing, though, you've only got half the story here. You also need to measure, precisely, the energy given up by the object (steel ball? whatever) as it goes up the ramp It starts with no KE. Have a look at the video above. Among other things, he's an amateur magician. :-) I did mention the spring in the central column? If you sit down at a poker table and see the dealer using the mechanic's grip, you are advised to get up again. (Of course, he may be honest; maybe he just likes to hold the cards that way.) I prefer classic BlackJack. Thanks for the comments, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Ramp climb and drop at 1 frame / sec
Guys, Here is a ramp climb and drop at 1 frame / sec. http://www.myfilehut.com/userfiles/prometheus_effect/ClimbandDropFramebyFrame.avi Note the ball has no starting KE and no horizontal KE on the vertical exit. The rotation about the exit point does induce some rotational KE but I don't measure it. Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: 1997 - 2005 the missing SMOT years
--- Public [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you seen this?: http://www.reidarfinsrud.no/sider/mobile/foto.html Hi Craig, Not to be a wet blanket but that big spring in the central column could be a worry? Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
How would you calculate KE
Guys, How would you calculate the final KE of a vertically falling ball assuming you know the mass of the ball, g and you could accurately measure the transit time of the last say 25mm of the vertical drop? Then, assuming you knew the total drop distance, would not a lower measured KE (than PE theory would predict) indicate the amount of effective reduction in the acceleration of gravity due to magnetic dragback? Thanks in advance, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
RE: Searching for issue # 13/14, March - June 1997 of Infinite Energy magazine
Akira Kawasaki wrote: April 31, 2005 Greg, Contact IE by e-mail, phone or fax. They can satisfy your need for the issue. IE has a website. Hi Akira, IE can supply ths issue in question. Thanks, Greg Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: Greg's closed loop SMOT claims, and Vortex-L Freenrg-L forums
--- William Beaty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 29 Apr 2005, Prometheus Effect wrote: Provide some high-quality documentation of your 1997 claims of closed-loop operation, or admit that it never occurred. Hi Bill, I'm in the process of making the SMOT kits and the new measurement system, so I can do what I always intended to do. Ship a reliable OU demo toy. I have offered you a SMOT kit and the new measurement system which proves the Prometheus Effect, at the heart of the SMOT, is OU. Despite what you think of me, the SMOT device and the measurement system stand on their own and need independent verification. Will you assist? I don't have the documentation you require but the event did occur. If I can show you the SMOT (same design as in 1997) is OU, then why can't you believe I did what I claimed back then? Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: Greg's msg from 1997: continuous closed-loop SMOT
--- Jed Rothwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Prometheus Effect a.k.a. Greg Watson wrote: Hi Jed, You once posted me a copy of the SMOT review Chris Tinsley did for IE. Could you please do that again? I would like to review it and post a few comments. By the way, can you provide the mailing address for IE . . . Hi Greg, Go to hell. And have a nice trip! Hi Jed, Having a bad day? Really pissed off at those who will not give CF data the real review it needs? Maybe like the SMOT review IE did where it was ASSUMED the ball on exit would experience sufficient dragback to reclaim the ramp gained PE but NO effort was put into actually measuring the energy on exit. Just a quick white wash using existing conservative modeling. Sound a bit like about the mainstream opinion of CF? So I take it you are not interested in verifying the Prometheus Effect and another IE writeup is out of the question? Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Measuring the OU Prometheus Effect
--- David Dameron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Greg, It is accepted that gravity is a conservative field. As it is also accepted that a magnetic field is conservative. BUT is that really the case 100% of the time or just what we have observed to date? Dave, will you agree to replace David Squires as an independent Prometheus Effect verifier? You will need to join the PE group. Cyril pointed out that there are places on exit where there would be no magnetic force. Cyril's force analysis was done on the forces along the ramp and not as the ball drops vertically. I think the slow motion frame by frame animated GIFs of a climb and drop that I have loaded onto the PE site (in the Videos section) tell the story better. So an important factor is how much kinetic energy does it take to get the ball to one, not that a position exists. To make the Prometheus Effect work, IMO, almost ALL the KE must be given back to punch through the inner (dragback / declining flux) wall of the Blue Hole and exit vertically downward with little or no dragback of the PE gained during the ramp climb. From the frame by frame slow motion sequences it is clear the ball almost stops (gives up almost all the ramp gained KE) just before it slowly rotates on the exit point and drops verticaly downward with little or no horizontal KE. The ball does have some rotational KE due to the exit point rotation. Are you saying that a slow magnetic gradient (on entrance) followed by a larger gradient on exit, over a shorter distance, can produce a non-conservative magnetic field? If that is the case it is not clear. Maybe the acceleration of gravity alters? I don't have the equipment to tell but something very significant alters. That would be very significant! I agree. I just wish I understood what I now know about the Prometheus Effect back in 1997 but that is another story for another day. Hi Dave, What is clear is the following: Establish 4 points: 1) Point A at the ramp entry. 2) Point B where the ball lands if it is allowed to roll backward from Point A and drop say 50mm to a level refernece plane. 3) Point C at the highest point of the ramp climb. 4) Point D where the ball lands if it is allowed to transit points A to C and drop to the same level reference plane as in point A. What I observe is: 1) Measure the final KE as the ball transits point A to B, without magnets (done to max KE by elimination of the magnetic dragback which does occur under the entry point. This same magnetic dragback at the entry assists the balls return). Record as KE1. 2) Measure the final KE as the ball transits points A to C to D. Record as KE2. 3) Measure the flux density at point A (with magnets present). Record as B1. 4) Measure the flux density at point D (with magnets present). Record as B2. 5) Observe KE2 is greater than KE1. (The ball has gained sufficient KE to do the return journey point D to point A against gravity) 6) Observe B1 is greater than B2. (The magnetic field will aid the balls return from point D to point A. Thus the measurements confirm OU capability and a very significant alteration in what conventional theory would predict. Verification of these measurements and observations, using this protocol and the measurement system I have developed, is what I seek from those independent verifiers who choose to do so. Comments most welcome. Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Searching for issue # 13/14, March - June 1997 of Infinite Energy magazine
Hi Guys, Do any of you have the double issue 13/14 1997 of Infinite Energy? On pages 59 - 61 there is a review of the SMOT titled: The Things We Get Up To.. SMOT: Simplified Over-Unity Toy by Christopher Tinsley I wish to write a review on the paper and the incorrect conclusions formed. I will then publish my review and send a copy to Infinite Energy for their action. Hopefully they will do the right thing, publish my review and help to set the record straight that the Prometheus Effect at the heart of the SMOT is OU. Any help would be appreciated as when I asked Jed Rothwell for assistance I was told to Go to Hell. Guess he was having a bad day. Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: Reqest for Prometheus Effect verifiers
Hi Mike, You will get your SMOT kit and the new measurement system in July or earlier. Just send me your delivery address. I made this statement in the home page of the Prometheus Effect site. Greg --- Mike Carrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And what about those who paid for the original SMOT kit, never got it, and did not ask for money back? Like me? Mike Carrell Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Reqest for Prometheus Effect verifiers
Guys, I would like to enlist the aid of some of the members of the OU / Free Energy community to independently verify the virtually no magnetic dragback exit of the Prometheus Effect. To that end I will provide a SMOT device and the new lossless measurement system at no cost. In return you will be asked to do a series of measurement on the SMOT device and report back your results comments either way. The SMOT device and the measurement system will be yours to keep. To that end I would like to ask the following for their so kind assistance: 1) Bill Beaty (Vortex) 2) Scott Little or Hal Puthoff (Vortex) 3) Jed Rothwell (Vortex) 4) Terry Blanton (Vortex) 5) Keith Nagel (Vortex) 6) Jean-Louis Naudin (JLN Labs) 7) Stefan Hartman (Overunity.com) 8) Cyril Smith (OU Builders) 9) David Squires (OU Builders) Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: SMOT closed-loop roll arounds? (2nd msg)
--- Bob Fickle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why not just dispense with the ramps altogether, and instead mount theball on the rim of a bicycle-size wheel- using the smoothest bearingsyou can find, and very lightweight construction? That way the return is free, with less friction than you've got now; just position themagnets along the rim's path, and we could settle this close-the-loop question in short order. Hi Bob, The Prometheus Effect involves gravity and requires a exit at 90deg to the main inline field. I wish it was as easy as your idea, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: Greg's msg from 1997: continuous closed-loop SMOT
--- Jed Rothwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: William Beaty wrote: That is what I love about computers. They never forget! If we ever win the CF wars, all of the stupid comments by harsh opposition skeptics will be preserved for posterity. Hi Jed, You once posted me a copy of the SMOT review Chris Tinsley did for IE. Could you please do that again? I would like to review it and post a few comments. By the way, can you provide the mailing address for IE so I can ship the two SMOT kits and the new KE measurement system IE which were ordered? Thanks, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: SMOT closed-loop roll arounds? (2nd msg)
--- William Beaty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 27 Apr 2005, Prometheus Effect wrote: I can only report on what I achieved and from memory it was not stable. So then, stable or not, what was *your* record for number of roll-arounds? Hi Bill, Sorry but I don't have my original notes so I can't give you more info. However when I finish the single ramp return device maybe I'll put it on a web cam. Then you can count the loops yourself ;-) Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
--- Stephen A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please don't take this to mean I think the effect can't be real. As always, experiment trumps theory. I'm just pointing out that if the effect _is_ real, then it is revolutionary on a far more fundamental level than such mundane effects as cold fusion, gravity shielding, or even most proposed methods for harnessing ZPE. Hi Stephen, That worries me as I know what I'm seeing in devices I have built and can publically demo. Maybe the source of the energy can be explained without wasting so much paper and dried ink. What I do know is that you can drop the ball vertically from the entry position, without magnets and measure the KE delivered in a fall to a level reference plane, then replace the ball at the entry point and allow it to do the climb, drop and fall to the the same entry plane. The measured final exit KE is not significantly different to the calculated exit PE. This to me indicates there has been very little effective magnetic dragback. I have built pure rotary devices (yes it can be done) but the load curve is lousy as well as it is difficult to control RPM when the load changes. No feedback control loops. Please have a look at the JLN / Prof Clauzon data on the site which strongly supports the effective dragback less exit. Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: SMOT closed-loop roll arounds? (2nd msg)
--- William Beaty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the current best record for number of roll-arounds (or time length in operation) with multiple ramps in the closed-loop configuration? Hi Bill, I can only report on what I achieved and from memory it was not stable. To do this required a lot of lift and as I only used ferrite fridge magnets this was not that easy. Epitaxy reported much better results but then he used Neos and an exotic glass ball filled with compacted ferrite powder. Experience has shown that going down this pathway (linking multiple ramps in a circular form) was not a good idea. Ball rolling losses increase quite a bit when the inside and outside track radius are different and you still have significant magnetic drawback to deal with. Its only by exiting straight down that you can make dragback insignificant. Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
RE: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
--- Keith Nagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How much energy is required to push the ball back to the starting position? It's trivial to redirect the ball, recovering the kinetic energy. That's your input energy. Pushing the ball under the ramp will no doubt take some energy. Making the ball go around the ramp in a big loop will also take energy, although this may not be as clear or easy to measure as the first method. Start with the first method, and experimentally determine the energy. Hi Keith, The first job is to adjust the ramp parameters until the measurement system indicates the best final exit KE. Then take the magnets away, place the ball at the top of the exit and let it drop. If it can't make it back to the lower starting place then either you need to reduce frictional losses or increase the lift. Anyway once you know you can get a rollaround without the magnets, replace them and again adjust the exit position for the best final KE that is similiar to the calculated KE from a magnetless drop. You should then be able to observe a closed loop demo. I'm working on a simple to build / replicate single ramp, ball return system and expect to post a video in the next week or so. Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I ask again is the PROMETHEUS EFFECT? I only know that Prometheus showed man how to use fire. So What is his effect?-ges Hi, The Prometheus Effect allows a permanent magnet to lift a ferromagnetic mass against gravity and then to cause it to be released (with no significant magnetic dragback) while retaining the PE gained by the lift. Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
--- Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does the height of lift vary with the particular planet? Hi Terry, Sure does ;-) Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
Hi Terry, In the message I gave you credit for the stepped magnet arrays used my some SMOT builders but I will remove the message as requested. All the best, Greg Watson Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Re: Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
--- William Beaty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 22 Apr 2005, Prometheus Effect wrote: Or is this just another of those measurement OU claims which cannot self-act to perform continuous work (minutes or hours long) against friction? Hi Bill, Please checkout the data on the site. Now it's just engineering effort, time and money, Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Prometheus Effect and SMOT kits
Randy E Hargraves wrote: Hi Friends I was one of the individuals that Bought and Paid for a SMOT unit from Greg Watson I never received it. I am extremely disappointed. If some one has a good e-mail address on him I would like it. In fact, feel free to forward this message to him. I am Randy Elston Hargraves in Oklahoma USA 1(405) 354-0044 Cell I feel Cheated Hi Randy, You need to checkout the site I have created which has ample proof that the Prometheus Effect, at the heart of the SMOT device, is OU: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/prometheus_effect/ You will get your SMOT complete with a new real time measurement system which allows rapid ramp adjustment to obtain max OU energy creation. I expect to start shipping unit in about 2 months so anyone else who didn't get or want their money back, just send me your delivery details. All the best Greg Watson (Prometheus Effect) Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Prometheus Effect
Randy Elston wrote: Hi Friends I was one of the individuals that Bought and Paid for a SMOT unit from Greg Watson. I never received it. I am extremely disappointed. If someone has a good e-mail address on him I would like it. In fact, feel free to forward this message to him. I am Randy Elston Hargraves in Oklahoma USA 1(405) 354-0044 Cell I feel Cheated --- Hi Randy, Jed and any others who are owed SMOT kits. You might want to check out: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/prometheus_effect/ You wil be getting your SMOT kit complete with a new measurement system which proves the Prometheus Effect at the heart of the SMOT device is OU. Greg Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
