RE: [Vo]:[Vo] X-rays in LENR

2015-12-29 Thread Roarty, Francis X 
Alain, very nice citation!
Fran

From: alain.coetm...@gmail.com [mailto:alain.coetm...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of 
Alain Sepeda
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 2:39 AM
To: Vortex List <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:[Vo] X-rays in LENR


Lou Pagnuco on LENR-Forum found an arxiv paper.

do you think it have connection ?

I see also connections with Hydroton's theory...

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1512.08504v1.pdf
"X-ray laser pulses from solids"
ABSTRACT: In experiments on irradiation of metal surfaces by ions of keV 
energy, X-ray laser radiation  was observed despite population inversion was 
unexpected. The radiation continued after the bombarding by ions was switched 
off. In this paper unusual properties of that X-ray radiation are analyzed. 
Anomalous states are formed inside the metal. These states are associated with 
narrow potential well created by the local reduction of zero point 
electromagnetic energy. This reminds the van der Waals potential well. States 
in the well are long-living which results in population inversion and the 
subsequent laser generation observed.

The author speculates that LENR may be due to up-conversion of low energy 
quanta into
nuclear excitations.

Peter Hagelstein discusses the Karabut results in --
"Directional X-ray and gamma emission in experiments in condensed matter 
nuclear science"
http://brillouinenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Directional-X-ray-and-gamma-emission-in-experiments-in-condensed-matter-nuclear-science.pdf


from:
http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2427-Re-examing-Karabut-s-anomalous-collimated-X-rays/

2015-12-29 0:37 GMT+01:00 Eric Walker 
<eric.wal...@gmail.com<mailto:eric.wal...@gmail.com>>:
Hi Bob,

Your experience in the nuclear energy sector is no doubt relevant here.

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Bob Cook 
<frobertc...@hotmail.com<mailto:frobertc...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
My experience is that any fast charged particles creates x-rays which would be 
observed and correlated with the ejection of electrons from the inner electron 
shells of atoms.

X-rays have been observed on many occasions and have been correlated with 
excess heat. In addition, characteristic x-rays that go back to the ionization 
of inner shell electrons are of an energy that is readily attenuated by quartz, 
water and stainless steel, which means you have to take special steps to 
measure them. (Also, the x-rays are often collimated for some reason.)

Also, if there are no fast neutrons, it is unlikely that one would expect to 
observe fast charged particles nor gammas, since they would likely be born from 
a nuclear transmutation.

This is an expectation that goes back to a certain understanding of what's 
going on (i.e., it is partly a theoretical understanding). That begs the 
question -- what if something different is going in in this case?

In addition, if the LENR reactions take place in a coherent system of 
significant size,  the probability of the production of  high kinetic energy 
particles may be low compared to the distribution of energy in many small 
amounts and/or directly as phonic energy of a lattice being part of a coherent 
system.

This is another theoretical expectation. Some people, such as Peter Hagelstein 
and Mitchell Swartz, like explanations involving a coherent system of some 
kind.  I personally find such approaches difficult to grasp in light of basic 
thermodynamical considerations.

Re: [Vo]:[Vo] X-rays in LENR

2015-12-29 Thread Eric Walker 
On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 1:38 AM, Alain Sepeda 
wrote:

Peter Hagelstein discusses the Karabut results in --
> "Directional X-ray and gamma emission in experiments in condensed matter
> nuclear science"
>
> http://brillouinenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Directional-X-ray-and-gamma-emission-in-experiments-in-condensed-matter-nuclear-science.pdf


In this work, Peter Hagelstein says this about the x-rays that Kornilova,
Vysotskii and others reported: "As is worth emphasizing, collimated X-ray
emission is not an effect that would be expected unless either an X-ray
laser has been produced, or a collimated electron beam was nearby, or else
phase coherence was present among the atomic or nuclear states."  A
candidate for the source of the x-rays which seems promising to me has been
omitted:  perhaps there are energetic charged particles that are exciting
the inner shell electrons as they're stopped.  This might be because
Hagelstein does not believe that there are energetic particles (charged or
neutral).

I wonder whether it is accurate to characterize the x-rays that Karabut has
reported as being predominantly in the 1.5 keV range.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:[Vo] X-rays in LENR

2015-12-29 Thread Roarty, Francis X 
It would also be interesting to retest on an outgassed lattice to see if the 
effect still occurs.  Fractional ambient gases instead of hydrogen.
Fran

From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 3:47 AM
To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:[Vo] X-rays in LENR

The is something special about the layered structure of graphite. I would 
follow that lead.

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 2:38 AM, Alain Sepeda 
<alain.sep...@gmail.com<mailto:alain.sep...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Lou Pagnuco on LENR-Forum found an arxiv paper.

do you think it have connection ?

I see also connections with Hydroton's theory...

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1512.08504v1.pdf
"X-ray laser pulses from solids"
ABSTRACT: In experiments on irradiation of metal surfaces by ions of keV 
energy, X-ray laser radiation  was observed despite population inversion was 
unexpected. The radiation continued after the bombarding by ions was switched 
off. In this paper unusual properties of that X-ray radiation are analyzed. 
Anomalous states are formed inside the metal. These states are associated with 
narrow potential well created by the local reduction of zero point 
electromagnetic energy. This reminds the van der Waals potential well. States 
in the well are long-living which results in population inversion and the 
subsequent laser generation observed.

The author speculates that LENR may be due to up-conversion of low energy 
quanta into
nuclear excitations.

Peter Hagelstein discusses the Karabut results in --
"Directional X-ray and gamma emission in experiments in condensed matter 
nuclear science"
http://brillouinenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Directional-X-ray-and-gamma-emission-in-experiments-in-condensed-matter-nuclear-science.pdf


from:
http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2427-Re-examing-Karabut-s-anomalous-collimated-X-rays/

2015-12-29 0:37 GMT+01:00 Eric Walker 
<eric.wal...@gmail.com<mailto:eric.wal...@gmail.com>>:
Hi Bob,

Your experience in the nuclear energy sector is no doubt relevant here.

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Bob Cook 
<frobertc...@hotmail.com<mailto:frobertc...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
My experience is that any fast charged particles creates x-rays which would be 
observed and correlated with the ejection of electrons from the inner electron 
shells of atoms.

X-rays have been observed on many occasions and have been correlated with 
excess heat. In addition, characteristic x-rays that go back to the ionization 
of inner shell electrons are of an energy that is readily attenuated by quartz, 
water and stainless steel, which means you have to take special steps to 
measure them. (Also, the x-rays are often collimated for some reason.)

Also, if there are no fast neutrons, it is unlikely that one would expect to 
observe fast charged particles nor gammas, since they would likely be born from 
a nuclear transmutation.

This is an expectation that goes back to a certain understanding of what's 
going on (i.e., it is partly a theoretical understanding). That begs the 
question -- what if something different is going in in this case?

In addition, if the LENR reactions take place in a coherent system of 
significant size,  the probability of the production of  high kinetic energy 
particles may be low compared to the distribution of energy in many small 
amounts and/or directly as phonic energy of a lattice being part of a coherent 
system.

This is another theoretical expectation. Some people, such as Peter Hagelstein 
and Mitchell Swartz, like explanations involving a coherent system of some 
kind.  I personally find such approaches difficult to grasp in light of basic 
thermodynamical considerations.

Re: [Vo]:[Vo] X-rays in LENR

2015-12-29 Thread Axil Axil 
The is something special about the layered structure of graphite. I would
follow that lead.

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 2:38 AM, Alain Sepeda 
wrote:

>
> Lou Pagnuco on LENR-Forum found an arxiv paper.
>
> do you think it have connection ?
>
> I see also connections with Hydroton's theory...
>
> http://arxiv.org/pdf/1512.08504v1.pdf
> "X-ray laser pulses from solids"
> ABSTRACT: In experiments on irradiation of metal surfaces by ions of keV
> energy, X-ray laser radiation  was observed despite population inversion
> was unexpected. The radiation continued after the bombarding by ions was
> switched off. In this paper unusual properties of that X-ray radiation are
> analyzed. Anomalous states are formed inside the metal. These states are
> associated with narrow potential well created by the local reduction of
> zero point electromagnetic energy. This reminds the van der Waals potential
> well. States in the well are long-living which results in population
> inversion and the subsequent laser generation observed.
>
> The author speculates that LENR may be due to up-conversion of low energy
> quanta into
> nuclear excitations.
>
> Peter Hagelstein discusses the Karabut results in --
> "Directional X-ray and gamma emission in experiments in condensed matter
> nuclear science"
>
> http://brillouinenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Directional-X-ray-and-gamma-emission-in-experiments-in-condensed-matter-nuclear-science.pdf
>
>
> from:
>
> http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2427-Re-examing-Karabut-s-anomalous-collimated-X-rays/
>
> 2015-12-29 0:37 GMT+01:00 Eric Walker :
>
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> Your experience in the nuclear energy sector is no doubt relevant here.
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Bob Cook 
>> wrote:
>>
>> My experience is that any fast charged particles creates x-rays which
>>> would be observed and correlated with the ejection of electrons from the
>>> inner electron shells of atoms.
>>
>>
>> X-rays have been observed on many occasions and have been correlated with
>> excess heat. In addition, characteristic x-rays that go back to the
>> ionization of inner shell electrons are of an energy that is readily
>> attenuated by quartz, water and stainless steel, which means you have to
>> take special steps to measure them. (Also, the x-rays are often collimated
>> for some reason.)
>>
>> Also, if there are no fast neutrons, it is unlikely that one would expect
>>> to observe fast charged particles nor gammas, since they would likely be
>>> born from a nuclear transmutation.
>>
>>
>> This is an expectation that goes back to a certain understanding of
>> what's going on (i.e., it is partly a theoretical understanding). That begs
>> the question -- what if something different is going in in this case?
>>
>> In addition, if the LENR reactions take place in a coherent system of
>>> significant size,  the probability of the production of  high kinetic
>>> energy particles may be low compared to the distribution of energy in many
>>> small amounts and/or directly as phonic energy of a lattice being part of a
>>> coherent system.
>>
>>
>> This is another theoretical expectation. Some people, such as Peter
>> Hagelstein and Mitchell Swartz, like explanations involving a coherent
>> system of some kind.  I personally find such approaches difficult to grasp
>> in light of basic thermodynamical considerations.
>>
>
>
>

[Vo]:[Vo] X-rays in LENR

2015-12-28 Thread Alain Sepeda 
Lou Pagnuco on LENR-Forum found an arxiv paper.

do you think it have connection ?

I see also connections with Hydroton's theory...

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1512.08504v1.pdf
"X-ray laser pulses from solids"
ABSTRACT: In experiments on irradiation of metal surfaces by ions of keV
energy, X-ray laser radiation  was observed despite population inversion
was unexpected. The radiation continued after the bombarding by ions was
switched off. In this paper unusual properties of that X-ray radiation are
analyzed. Anomalous states are formed inside the metal. These states are
associated with narrow potential well created by the local reduction of
zero point electromagnetic energy. This reminds the van der Waals potential
well. States in the well are long-living which results in population
inversion and the subsequent laser generation observed.

The author speculates that LENR may be due to up-conversion of low energy
quanta into
nuclear excitations.

Peter Hagelstein discusses the Karabut results in --
"Directional X-ray and gamma emission in experiments in condensed matter
nuclear science"
http://brillouinenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Directional-X-ray-and-gamma-emission-in-experiments-in-condensed-matter-nuclear-science.pdf


from:
http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2427-Re-examing-Karabut-s-anomalous-collimated-X-rays/

2015-12-29 0:37 GMT+01:00 Eric Walker :

> Hi Bob,
>
> Your experience in the nuclear energy sector is no doubt relevant here.
>
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Bob Cook  wrote:
>
> My experience is that any fast charged particles creates x-rays which
>> would be observed and correlated with the ejection of electrons from the
>> inner electron shells of atoms.
>
>
> X-rays have been observed on many occasions and have been correlated with
> excess heat. In addition, characteristic x-rays that go back to the
> ionization of inner shell electrons are of an energy that is readily
> attenuated by quartz, water and stainless steel, which means you have to
> take special steps to measure them. (Also, the x-rays are often collimated
> for some reason.)
>
> Also, if there are no fast neutrons, it is unlikely that one would expect
>> to observe fast charged particles nor gammas, since they would likely be
>> born from a nuclear transmutation.
>
>
> This is an expectation that goes back to a certain understanding of what's
> going on (i.e., it is partly a theoretical understanding). That begs the
> question -- what if something different is going in in this case?
>
> In addition, if the LENR reactions take place in a coherent system of
>> significant size,  the probability of the production of  high kinetic
>> energy particles may be low compared to the distribution of energy in many
>> small amounts and/or directly as phonic energy of a lattice being part of a
>> coherent system.
>
>
> This is another theoretical expectation. Some people, such as Peter
> Hagelstein and Mitchell Swartz, like explanations involving a coherent
> system of some kind.  I personally find such approaches difficult to grasp
> in light of basic thermodynamical considerations.
>