Re: [Vo]:Asymmetry in chemical reactions wrt Rossi

2011-04-09 Thread Taylor J. Smith

Jones wrote:

Micrograms, actually. Perhaps you only need a few atoms
thickness on the nickel surface.

In fact it might work better that way, since the monatomic
hydrogen splits and keeps on going into the interstices
a few atoms down, where it densifies ...

Terry Blanton wrote:

Ok, ok, I'm willing to give it a chance; but, assuming
the entire ECat assembly is indeed copper, how much Cu
can one expect to migrate into the Ni?  Certainly not for
the ratio of constantan 55/45; otherwise, there would be
pressure leaks everywhere.

Steven wrote:

Culturally speaking, Rossi's eCat (eKittin) technology
reminds me of a very popular science fiction genre known
as Steam Punk. Steam Punk has its origins that can be
traced back many decades. Curiously, within recent history,
the genre has become a thriving sub-culture within the
science fiction community. Steam Punk has spawned many
popular novels and films in recent history.

Basically speaking, Steam Punk exists as an alternate
universe, one that seems to revolve around what might be
called old world technology, technology based more on the
rules of alchemy rather than Quantum Mechanics.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_punk

This comparison/revelation hit me like a ton of bricks
last night while my wife read out-loud a brief passage
from a Steam Punk novel she is currently reading. I found
myself thinking about the recent PDF report which includes
photos of several eCats in various stages of having been
dismantled. The visual flavor looking at all of those
dirty copper pipes couldn't have been any closer to what
steam punk technology is all about.

This is speculation on my part, but it would seem as
if many gifted Steam Punk writers, without realizing it,
have tapped into an alternate universe - as if some part of
their psyche unconsciously sensed the distinct possibility
that this other world must actually exist somewhere for
real. They longed to pull that reality into our universe
where we could explore it in more detail. Perhaps
their novels helped sparked unconscious speculation
on the matter, eventually resulting in bringing Steam
Punk technology to fruition in our universe. FWIW, a
sub-culture such as Steam Punk doesn't thrive as well as it
does unless there is something substantial underneath it.

Hi All,

My favorite steam punk movie is Brazil with Harry Tuttle
the master of pneumatics.

Jack Smith




[Vo]:Asymmetry in chemical reactions wrt Rossi

2011-04-08 Thread Jones Beene
Speaking of CETI and Patterson, did you know that besides nickel and palladium 
coating the beads, JP used copper chloride to initially treat them? This is in 
the recipe that turned up after his death.

This copper molecule was used for a completely different reason, ostensibly; 
and since it was not deemed by anyone to be active – like the Ni and Pd were, 
and it could easily have been overlooked. Moreover, Cu was there an ion, and it 
could have migrated outward to alloy with the Nickel… if there was enough of it.

If copper chloride was inadvertently not added in a particular batch, or added 
in too low a concentration, this would NOT have registered as meaningful at the 
time. And this factoid may or may not be relevant now. But in the event that 
this is of those rare occasions where your commentator  is proved to be as 
accurate as he thinks he always is, read on:

If you have followed alternative energy for some time, you may realize that 
there is slight potentially gain to be had (on paper)  from the decomposition 
of water into hydrogen and oxygen at standard temperature and pressure - 
followed by recombination, as we have mentioned several times here. This cannot 
happen in practice of course. 

The standard potential of the water electrolysis cell is only 1.23 V at 25 °C 
at pH 0. It is also 1.23 V at 25 °C at pH 7 based on the Nernst Equation (see 
Wiki entry). On recombination, however there is a gain of ~.02 eV (on paper and 
at 100% current efficiency) … but of course this gain is not usable in practice 
because the neither the high pH nor the low pH is practical, and also the rate 
of decomposition at the standard potential is incredibly low, since the extra 
.02 eV must come from ambient heat. Chemistry as we know is fully conservative. 

CAVEAT– it is a mistake to conflate Volts and electron-volts - eV. When this is 
done, we must assume that every molecule participates - but for present 
purposes, we are really only making a case for something else (read on). 100% 
current efficiency will be presumed for now.

In practice, high volume water splitting requires about 1.9 V potential (you 
often see 1.45 V listed as the minimum potential) and the resultant thermal 
efficiency is about 85% for the best cells. The curious thing to many is that 
we know that the binding energy of two hydrogen atoms, when they form H2 on the 
cathode is much higher: 4.5 eV…  

… so one might think that splitting water could be gainful, under the right 
conditions. No way, Jose.  Chemistry is fully conservative and as it turns out 
the H-OH bond energy is itself actually 5.2 eV and that is four times more than 
the voltage potential required to completely split water. This is where QM 
comes into play in normal chemistry. The discrepancy is rationalized this way: 
when you split water, most of the energy required really does not come from 
your input power, which as you remember is less than 2 V. potential (with the 
CAVEAT). In fact, most of the required energy comes from the recombination of 
two atoms of hydrogen into the molecule, AFTER the splitting. In QM terms that 
energy has been “borrowed” before it is repaid. When it is borrowed it MUST be 
repaid or else the reaction is quenched.

OK. This is oversimplified for a particular purpose – an attempt at verbalizing 
the importance of a recently mentioned paper vis-à-vis the Rossi experiment, 
where molecular hydrogen is introduced to a spillover catalyst. Remember, this 
H2 molecule is bound by 4.5 eV so in order to split it to atomic hydrogen, in 
the spillover process, this catalyst faces a daunting task. Spillover is not 
favored, energetically, but it does happen routinely, and most of that is due 
to the long ‘Boltzmann’s tail’ of the energy distribution and QM time shifting.

This is why the Romanowski finding could be so important, as a first step in 
understanding the Rossi effect. Yes, that Romanowski paper is a ‘model’ and not 
an experimental finding, but it is a high level simulation, and should be 
accurate. Rossi may have inadvertently proved it. The “sim” which they 
performed in two ways professes to show that about 3.2 eV of catalytic energy 
is available to split the H2 molecule when one uses the best spillover catalyst 
– which is a copper-nickel alloy, similar to the alloy known as constantan, 
which is unique in its own right.

This is new, folks and it blows me away in importance ! In fact, the spillover 
catalyst which has most often been used in LENR, going back to PF is of course 
palladium. By comparison, Palladium supplies about .3 -.4 eV of catalytic 
power, compared with  3.2 eV for constantan. Wow. Copper alone has a negative 
spillover function.!

Wow, wow, wow. It took me all of those paragraphs to finally get down to the 
point of this posting.

Chemistry, as we know is fully conservative, but if you can set the stage 
properly with chemistry that is highly favorable, energetically - then in place 
of needing QM time 

Re: [Vo]:Asymmetry in chemical reactions wrt Rossi

2011-04-08 Thread Terry Blanton
On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 4:37 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:

 Cu-Ni alloy  - constantan - may do that and guess what? This explains how
 Rossi’s fabulously lucky cost cutting idea – to use copper based materials
 for his reactor, paid off handsomely, whether he knows it or not.

Ok, ok, I'm willing to give it a chance; but, assuming the entire ECat
assembly is indeed copper, how much Cu can one expect to migrate into
the Ni?  Certainly not for the ratio of constantan 55/45; otherwise,
there would be pressure leaks everywhere.  Water into powder, H into
water, water on the ground, like pants!

T

From Atlanta:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiQkGouzck4



RE: [Vo]:Asymmetry in chemical reactions wrt Rossi

2011-04-08 Thread Jones Beene
Micrograms, actually. Perhaps you only need a few atoms thickness on the
nickel surface.

In fact it might work better that way, since the monatomic hydrogen splits
and keeps on going into the interstices a few atoms down, where it
densifies ...



-Original Message-
From: Terry Blanton 

 Ok, ok, I'm willing to give it a chance; but, assuming the entire ECat
assembly is indeed copper, how much Cu can one expect to migrate into
the Ni?  Certainly not for the ratio of constantan 55/45; otherwise,
there would be pressure leaks everywhere.  





Re: [Vo]:Asymmetry in chemical reactions wrt Rossi

2011-04-08 Thread Terry Blanton
On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
 Micrograms, actually. Perhaps you only need a few atoms thickness on the
 nickel surface.


Well, that could certainly explain the Patterson fiasco.  Call Motorola!

T



Re: [Vo]:Asymmetry in chemical reactions wrt Rossi

2011-04-08 Thread Terry Blanton
On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:

 Well, that could certainly explain the Patterson fiasco.  Call Motorola!

I wonder how many of the list members actually get the batwing
reference?  Pity.  I suppose forensic web historians will find it
funny . . . in, say, 2055?

T