Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[mixent]

In reply to  Robert Lynn's message of Wed, 1 Feb 2012 11:56:00 +:
Hi,
[snip]
>I believe Rossi operates at about 25bar (350psi).

Doesn't his patent app. say 2-20 bar? If so then one could probably get
something to work (for demonstration purposes) near the lower end of the scale.

It may not be as efficient, but you aren't trying to out compete him, just to
see if it works at all.
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot -- BIG V

[Terry Blanton]

On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Alan J Fletcher  wrote:

> Engineer wrote:
> And I know you read the big V; so, did you figure it out before you read
> it?
>
> DefkalionGT:
> We respect "big V" and its role/commitment in CF/LENR for so many years.
>

Yeah, that was the "Arrg! Go on!" reference to argon.  And I really do have
a FSM emblem on my car and celebrate "Talk like a pirate day".  :)

T

Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot -- BIG V

[Alan J Fletcher]

Engineer wrote:
And I know you read the big V; so, did you figure it out before you read it?

DefkalionGT:
We respect "big V" and its role/commitment in CF/LENR for so many years. 

RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Peter B]

Thanks Mark 
That should help quite a bit 
Pete

From: zeropo...@charter.net
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 20:05:10 -0800



JoJo wrote:“Axil, Please, by all means keep the speculations and the 
"embarrassing" experimental advice coming.  I have learned a lot from you and 
many other people here.  Vortex has been the most useful forum as far as 
gaining insight into replicating Rossi. And PeterB wrote:“I have only been on 
Vortex a few months and I have gained much insight. There's a lot of smart 
people here with a wide range of views. I’m starting to learn to appreciate the 
criticisms more as well. It’s good to be challenged” Indeed!  The Collective 
has been much more functional and in line with its founding principles when the 
disfunctionals are gone… keep the focus on the technical/scientific issues, and 
less on the personalities.  TOGETHER, we have the technical/scientific 
expertise, the theoretical as well as the engineering expertise to make 
valuable contributions.  There is no reason that we can’t help push this 
technology along… perhaps the people of the planet will succeed once again 
where governments and ‘professionals’ have failed. To all the newcomers since 
early 2011, you might want to use the web-interface to the forum 
here:http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=vortex-l@eskimo.com&a=1&haswords=and 
do Searches in order to gather up the various discussions that went on after 
the Jan demo by Rossi… -Mark  

RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint]

JoJo wrote:

"Axil, Please, by all means keep the speculations and the "embarrassing"
experimental advice coming.  I have learned a lot from you and many other
people here.  Vortex has been the most useful forum as far as gaining
insight into replicating Rossi.

 

And PeterB wrote:

"I have only been on Vortex a few months and I have gained much insight.
There's a lot of smart people here with a wide range of views. I'm starting
to learn to appreciate the criticisms more as well. It's good to be
challenged"

 

Indeed!  The Collective has been much more functional and in line with its
founding principles when the disfunctionals are gone. keep the focus on the
technical/scientific issues, and less on the personalities.  TOGETHER, we
have the technical/scientific expertise, the theoretical as well as the
engineering expertise to make valuable contributions.  There is no reason
that we can't help push this technology along. perhaps the people of the
planet will succeed once again where governments and 'professionals' have
failed.

 

To all the newcomers since early 2011, you might want to use the
web-interface to the forum here:

http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=vortex-l@eskimo.com

&a=1&haswords=

and do Searches in order to gather up the various discussions that went on
after the Jan demo by Rossi.

 

-Mark

RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Peter B]

Hi   JoJo 
More information  , thankyou . I have only been on Vortex a few months and I 
have gained much insight . There's a lot of smart people here with a wide range 
of views . Im starting to learn to  appreciate  the critisisims more  as well . 
Its good to be challenged 
There are a few different industries that use 50 mm steel pipeing that handle  
over 6000 psi . You just have find a proffessional machinist thats worked with 
extremme  pressures and heat , that understands whats needed in the area of 
seals and elements , especially if you continually want to re-open and seal it 
for different types of testing , which is what we intend to do . This is where 
it gets dangerous . 
I have a few ideas on this , once I am convinced in myself it will work , I 
will share  . Safety and the ability to change over materials \catyalyst  
quicker than most , is my challenge. 
And yes I noticed that ebay seller has different lengths at different  watts , 
should help for the future (if we ever find a reaction ) 
Thanks again 
Pete 



From: jth...@hotmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 18:45:07 +0800










Pete, you're welcome.
 
I'm using this same heating element in my disposable 
reactor.  I'm attempting replication of Rossi, not Phen\Chan which I think 
may be a red herring.  Something just does not smell right to me about 
Chan\Phen's method.  I suspect Chan\Phen may have ignited the propane in 
his tube and initiated a low-grade chemical burning of his mineral oil 
bath.  Using Mineral Oil as coolant and propane as "Inert gas" just  
does not seem right to me.
 
Anyways, I calculated that I load the reactor at 30C (room 
temp) or around 300K and at 300-360 psi (Rossi's initial H pressure).  
Heating the reactor to 700K (423C - Focardi's "Ideal" temp) would bring the H 
pressure to around 700 psi according to the Ideal Gas Law formula.
 
I don't think 700 psi is that difficult to handle in a 
reactor.  My initial attempt will be to use a copper tube rated to 2240 psi 
@ 72F.  Derating charts I found said to derate the psi rating when temp 
increases.  So I suspect, my copper tube should handle 700psi @ 423C.  
If not, I'll upgrade to a stainless steel tube, which will do 2000psi 
@350F.  These are "official" safety ratings, so the actual burst rating 
would be about 3-5 times higher.  I intend to place the reactor in a blast 
chamber (8" concrete walls) and monitor using Wireless IP camera.
 
At 700 psi reactor target pressure, this heating element 
should work.  
 
 
BTW, did you notice that the same seller lists other 
similar heating element of various sizes?  Go to his store, he has other 
sizes.
 
 
Jojo
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Peter B 

  To: Vortex Ron 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 5:52 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
  

  JoJo   Thankyou  for helping , it might just do the 
  trick 
  

  I have a young  electrical  engineer  helping me out once 
  a week , he is concerned the element it self may not handle  the 
  pressures building up in the chamber 
  

  In our intended experiments  we are going to do 2 main 
  types 
  

  1.   Phen\Chan way  
  

  2.Rossi way 
  

  

  Phen doesnt heat the chamber while the H is at  2000psi 
  

  But Rossi  seems to do this 
  

  The engineer seems to think by heating the chamber to 400 C increases the 
  PSI  x 3  (approx)
  

  Which means the pressures  would be around 6000 psi 
  

  He questions if most elements could handle this type of 
  pressures 
  

  

  Question :   Do you think Rossi  heats the chamber while 
  the H is pressuised at 2000 psi 
  

  Thanks Pete

  

  


  
  
  
  From: jth...@hotmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:DGT 
  Screenshot
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 16:27:03 +0800


  
  

  Peter,  How about this cheap heating 
  element.  Fits inside a 1/4" copper tube perfectly.
   
   
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350505999493?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l1313%26_nkw%3D350505999493%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1
   
   
   
  Jojo

RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Peter B]

Thanks Robert 
I appreciate you advice 
Im in no hurry and safety is my main concern . Overall  I dont build anything . 
I get other proffesionals to build . I have a machinist who has worked with 
enourmous pressures and gasses . Our chamber will be very small , with several 
shut down features . Also enclosed in a half inch steel glove box . Hydrogen 
Bottle will be disconected and removed before all experiments so even if we 
find a extreme reaction , there shouldnt be a megga explosion . 
Im working on a 6000 psi release valve  design , just in case 
Again thankyou 
Pete

Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 11:56:00 +
Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
From: robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com

2000-6000psi hydrogen is pretty dangerous, be very careful about your design 
and setup, make sure all your valves seals and fittings are able to withstand 
those pressures, keep those valves, seals and fittings away from high 
temperatures, and try to keep reactor vessel volume small.

I believe Rossi operates at about 25bar (350psi).  But that might just be the 
cold loading pressure.  I am not sure if he used a pressure regulator on his 
reactor to limit the pressure.  He probably did for the 1MW container, but 
maybe not for some of his smaller demos (where I seem to remember that he 
disconnected the hydrogen supply during the test).  Remember that (hopefully) a 
lot of the hydrogen is loaded into the nickel, so the reactor pressure might 
not rise as much as you think - it might even drop.  However for safety it is a 
good idea to disconnect the hydrogen supply during the test and design assuming 
3-4 times the loading pressure.

Your heating element does not need to be in the reactor - just put it inside a 
tube that penetrates through the middle of the reactor.  The heater element 
heats the tube and the tube heats the reactor without requiring any high 
pressure-electrical feedthroughs.  You can measure reactor temperature the same 
way, with a  thermocouple in a tube.  This is a standard industrial technique, 
though it is slower to respond than having the thermocouple exposed directly to 
the hydrogen in the reactor.

There are lots of easy ways to make a heating element, but easiest is buying 
ceramic rod type cartridge heaters used in soldering irons off-the shelf for 
<$20, these should be able to operate red-hot (>500°C)

On 1 February 2012 09:52, Peter B  wrote:





JoJo   Thankyou  for helping , it might just do the trick 
I have a young  electrical  engineer  helping me out once a week , he is 
concerned the element it self may not handle  the pressures building up in the 
chamber 

In our intended experiments  we are going to do 2 main types 
1.   Phen\Chan way  
2.Rossi way 

Phen doesnt heat the chamber while the H is at  2000psi 

But Rossi  seems to do this 
The engineer seems to think by heating the chamber to 400 C increases the PSI  
x 3  (approx)
Which means the pressures  would be around 6000 psi 

He questions if most elements could handle this type of pressures 

Question :   Do you think Rossi  heats the chamber while the H is pressuised at 
2000 psi 

Thanks Pete



From: jth...@hotmail.com

To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 16:27:03 +0800










Peter,  How about this cheap heating 
element.  Fits inside a 1/4" copper tube perfectly.
 
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350505999493?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l1313%26_nkw%3D350505999493%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

 
 
 
Jojo  

  

Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Jed Rothwell]

Robert Lynn wrote:

A cheap thermocouple with error of 1-2°C is OK for an amateur 
experiment measuring reactor temperatures that are in the range 
4-700°C . . .


Many professional HVAC engineers use K-Type thermocouples. They are not 
only for amateurs.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Robert Lynn]

I my previous job as a IC engine development engineer we used platinum RTDs
(also called PRTs) for most water and air temperatures (<200°C), but
thermocouples for all exhaust temperatures (>500°C) where errors of 1-2°C
don't really matter.

While platinum RTDs are best, they are several times the price of
thermocouples, and in many cases will not be rated for operation at the
higher (500°C +) temperatures that are of interest for these new NiH LENR
reactors. Platinum RTDs are much more essential for accurate low
temperature differential calorimetry that requires long term stability, but
even then for shorter experiments a thermocouple can work OK as long as you
calibrate them before or after the experiment.

A cheap thermocouple with error of 1-2°C is OK for an amateur experiment
measuring reactor temperatures that are in the range 4-700°C and where it
is probably not worth using expensive RTDs to measure with high accuracy
because other sources of error will likely be far greater than the
thermocouple inaccuracy; in most cases the temperature will not be used for
low temperature difference calorimetry and the temperature will vary
throughout the reactor anyway.  For a low cost high pressure and high
temperature amateur experiment it is far better to spend money on making
the reactor and hydrogen system safe than on high temperature RTDs.

On 1 February 2012 15:05, Jones Beene  wrote:

>   This is bad practice ! (and it is not a small point). Often
> “thermocouple” is used generically.
>
> ** **
>
> Thermocouples are NOT adequate for this kind of measurement, in the long
> term. They are cheaper but degrade too easily.
>
> ** **
>
> For reliable measurement of hydrogen at higher temps - you should use
> RTDs. They are more expensive but can be exposed to almost anything and
> maintain accuracy.
>
> * *
>
> Typically RTDs are platinum on the exterior. See the Wiki entry.
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **Ø **
>
> **Ø  **This is a standard industrial technique, though it is slower to
> respond than having the thermocouple exposed directly to the hydrogen in
> the reactor. 
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>

RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Jones Beene]

This is bad practice ! (and it is not a small point). Often "thermocouple"
is used generically.

 

Thermocouples are NOT adequate for this kind of measurement, in the long
term. They are cheaper but degrade too easily.

 

For reliable measurement of hydrogen at higher temps - you should use RTDs.
They are more expensive but can be exposed to almost anything and maintain
accuracy.

 

Typically RTDs are platinum on the exterior. See the Wiki entry.

 

 

* 

*  This is a standard industrial technique, though it is slower to respond
than having the thermocouple exposed directly to the hydrogen in the
reactor. 

 

 

 

Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Alain Sepeda]

be careful with the effect of hydrogen on any metal (make hydrides, make
brittle, leaks and then self-ignite- H can burns a µg/min according to
wikipedia, check airliquide.com for safety of H2...)

maybe (I have no clue) H2 can transform the characteristics of a
thermocouple, especially at high heat and pressure... Defkalion seems to
use void and argon for their electronics , to protect from H.

by the way, If you are not professional, be very very careful... this gas
is "traitor".

2012/2/1 Robert Lynn 

> This is a standard industrial technique, though it is slower to respond
> than having the thermocouple exposed directly to the hydrogen in the
> reactor.
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Robert Lynn]

2000-6000psi hydrogen is pretty dangerous, be very careful about your
design and setup, make sure all your valves seals and fittings are able to
withstand those pressures, keep those valves, seals and fittings away from
high temperatures, and try to keep reactor vessel volume small.

I believe Rossi operates at about 25bar (350psi).  But that might just be
the cold loading pressure.  I am not sure if he used a pressure regulator
on his reactor to limit the pressure.  He probably did for the 1MW
container, but maybe not for some of his smaller demos (where I seem to
remember that he disconnected the hydrogen supply during the test).
 Remember that (hopefully) a lot of the hydrogen is loaded into the nickel,
so the reactor pressure might not rise as much as you think - it might even
drop.  However for safety it is a good idea to disconnect the hydrogen
supply during the test and design assuming 3-4 times the loading pressure.

Your heating element does not need to be in the reactor - just put it
inside a tube that penetrates through the middle of the reactor.  The
heater element heats the tube and the tube heats the reactor without
requiring any high pressure-electrical feedthroughs.  You can measure
reactor temperature the same way, with a  thermocouple in a tube.  This is
a standard industrial technique, though it is slower to respond than having
the thermocouple exposed directly to the hydrogen in the reactor.

There are lots of easy ways to make a heating element, but easiest is
buying ceramic rod type cartridge heaters used in soldering irons off-the
shelf for <$20, these should be able to operate red-hot (>500°C)

On 1 February 2012 09:52, Peter B  wrote:

>  JoJo   Thankyou  for helping , it might just do the trick
>
> I have a young  electrical  engineer  helping me out once a week , he is
> concerned the element it self may not handle  the pressures building up in
> the chamber
>
> In our intended experiments  we are going to do 2 main types
>
> 1.   Phen\Chan way
>
> 2.Rossi way
>
>
> Phen doesnt heat the chamber while the H is at  2000psi
>
> But Rossi  seems to do this
>
> The engineer seems to think by heating the chamber to 400 C increases the
> PSI  x 3  (approx)
>
> Which means the pressures  would be around 6000 psi
>
> He questions if most elements could handle this type of pressures
>
>
> *Question *:   Do you think Rossi  heats the chamber while the H is
> pressuised at 2000 psi
>
> Thanks Pete
>
>
>
> ------
> From: jth...@hotmail.com
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 16:27:03 +0800
>
>
> Peter,  How about this cheap heating element.  Fits inside a 1/4" copper
> tube perfectly.
>
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/350505999493?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l1313%26_nkw%3D350505999493%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1<http://www.ebay.com/itm/350505999493?ru=http://www.ebay.com:80/sch/i.html?_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l1313%26_nkw%3D350505999493%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1>
>
>
>
> Jojo
>

Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Jojo Jaro]

Pete, you're welcome.

I'm using this same heating element in my disposable reactor.  I'm attempting 
replication of Rossi, not Phen\Chan which I think may be a red herring.  
Something just does not smell right to me about Chan\Phen's method.  I suspect 
Chan\Phen may have ignited the propane in his tube and initiated a low-grade 
chemical burning of his mineral oil bath.  Using Mineral Oil as coolant and 
propane as "Inert gas" just  does not seem right to me.

Anyways, I calculated that I load the reactor at 30C (room temp) or around 300K 
and at 300-360 psi (Rossi's initial H pressure).  Heating the reactor to 700K 
(423C - Focardi's "Ideal" temp) would bring the H pressure to around 700 psi 
according to the Ideal Gas Law formula.

I don't think 700 psi is that difficult to handle in a reactor.  My initial 
attempt will be to use a copper tube rated to 2240 psi @ 72F.  Derating charts 
I found said to derate the psi rating when temp increases.  So I suspect, my 
copper tube should handle 700psi @ 423C.  If not, I'll upgrade to a stainless 
steel tube, which will do 2000psi @350F.  These are "official" safety ratings, 
so the actual burst rating would be about 3-5 times higher.  I intend to place 
the reactor in a blast chamber (8" concrete walls) and monitor using Wireless 
IP camera.

At 700 psi reactor target pressure, this heating element should work.  


BTW, did you notice that the same seller lists other similar heating element of 
various sizes?  Go to his store, he has other sizes.


Jojo


  - Original Message - 
  From: Peter B 
  To: Vortex Ron 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 5:52 PM
  Subject: RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot


  JoJo   Thankyou  for helping , it might just do the trick 


  I have a young  electrical  engineer  helping me out once a week , he is 
concerned the element it self may not handle  the pressures building up in the 
chamber 


  In our intended experiments  we are going to do 2 main types 


  1.   Phen\Chan way  


  2.Rossi way 




  Phen doesnt heat the chamber while the H is at  2000psi 


  But Rossi  seems to do this 


  The engineer seems to think by heating the chamber to 400 C increases the PSI 
 x 3  (approx)


  Which means the pressures  would be around 6000 psi 


  He questions if most elements could handle this type of pressures 




  Question :   Do you think Rossi  heats the chamber while the H is pressuised 
at 2000 psi 


  Thanks Pete







------
  From: jth...@hotmail.com
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
  Subject: RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
  Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 16:27:03 +0800


  Peter,  How about this cheap heating element.  Fits inside a 1/4" copper tube 
perfectly.


  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350505999493?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l1313%26_nkw%3D350505999493%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1



  Jojo

RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Peter B]

JoJo   Thankyou  for helping , it might just do the trick 
I have a young  electrical  engineer  helping me out once a week , he is 
concerned the element it self may not handle  the pressures building up in the 
chamber 
In our intended experiments  we are going to do 2 main types 
1.   Phen\Chan way  
2.Rossi way 

Phen doesnt heat the chamber while the H is at  2000psi 
But Rossi  seems to do this 
The engineer seems to think by heating the chamber to 400 C increases the PSI  
x 3  (approx)
Which means the pressures  would be around 6000 psi 
He questions if most elements could handle this type of pressures 

Question :   Do you think Rossi  heats the chamber while the H is pressuised at 
2000 psi 
Thanks Pete



From: jth...@hotmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 16:27:03 +0800










Peter,  How about this cheap heating 
element.  Fits inside a 1/4" copper tube perfectly.
 
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350505999493?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l1313%26_nkw%3D350505999493%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1
 
 
 
Jojo  

RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Jojo Jaro]

Peter,  How about this cheap heating element.  Fits inside a 1/4" copper tube 
perfectly.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/350505999493?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l1313%26_nkw%3D350505999493%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1



Jojo

RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Peter B]

Hi Brad 
Ive been able to purchase most of the instruments to do  my own experiments on 
Ni H Because (as usual) money is tight  , Im  struggling to find a reasonable 
priced  "Element"  thatproduces 400 to 600 C , has hot zone of 100 mm  and 
can handle a very high psi 
Can you recomend any products or companies that might fit the bill 
Thanks for you help 
Pete 


> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:48:34 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
> From: ecatbuil...@gmail.com
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> 
> >> Ta-Da ... yes it is argon. It is a Mills catalyst, and we know they use it.
> >
> 
> Hold the champagne.. Piantelli says argon stops the nuclear process...
> http://www.rexresearch.com/piantelli/piantelli.htm
> 
> In the pictures the yellow tubing appears to be for vacuum. But later
> in the video a tube goes into the T and out up towards the ceiling..
> which hints towards venting.. not the addition of a secret gas
> ingredient.
> 
> 
> At 0:21 there is a picture of a lead going into the center of the
> reactor? Almost looks like a spark plug lead. High voltage? If I'm not
> mistaken, the variac goes into a big (blue with yellow stripe)
> transformer. (variac also appears to be on "max").
> 
> - Brad
> 
  

Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Daniel Rocha]

You should not hold the champagne. Rossi said that once his reaction was
going out of control and Levi, I think it was him, injected Nitrogen to
stop the reaction. So, I don't think this is exclusive to Argon, rather, it
is by cutting off H and substituting it for something else.

2012/1/31 ecat builder 

> >> Ta-Da ... yes it is argon. It is a Mills catalyst, and we know they use
> it.
> >
>
> Hold the champagne.. Piantelli says argon stops the nuclear process...
> http://www.rexresearch.com/piantelli/piantelli.htm
>
> In the pictures the yellow tubing appears to be for vacuum. But later
> in the video a tube goes into the T and out up towards the ceiling..
> which hints towards venting.. not the addition of a secret gas
> ingredient.
>
>
> At 0:21 there is a picture of a lead going into the center of the
> reactor? Almost looks like a spark plug lead. High voltage? If I'm not
> mistaken, the variac goes into a big (blue with yellow stripe)
> transformer. (variac also appears to be on "max").
>
> - Brad
>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint]

In the first video that I watched, when the camera panned left to view the
gas cylinder on the floor, they blurred out the vid shortly after the tank
came into view... so are they conscious of what gets onto a video??? Yes...
-mark

-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 5:26 PM



I could not spot a standard tank of argon anywhere, but there could be a
lecture bottle in there somewhere. Argon cylinders would normally have a
dark green shoulder. They might have cut out the footage of that tank for
the obvious reason.

Jones

Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[ecat builder]

>> Ta-Da ... yes it is argon. It is a Mills catalyst, and we know they use it.
>

Hold the champagne.. Piantelli says argon stops the nuclear process...
http://www.rexresearch.com/piantelli/piantelli.htm

In the pictures the yellow tubing appears to be for vacuum. But later
in the video a tube goes into the T and out up towards the ceiling..
which hints towards venting.. not the addition of a secret gas
ingredient.


At 0:21 there is a picture of a lead going into the center of the
reactor? Almost looks like a spark plug lead. High voltage? If I'm not
mistaken, the variac goes into a big (blue with yellow stripe)
transformer. (variac also appears to be on "max").

- Brad

Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Terry Blanton]

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 8:26 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> Ta-Da ... yes it is argon. It is a Mills catalyst, and we know they use it.

By Jove, I think you have it!

Should I ask?  Or simply say "Arggg" go on!

I think I shall.



T

RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Jones Beene]

-Original Message-
From: Terry Blanton
 
> I asked about the second spike and whether they added H to cause it.
They admitted they did "something"; but, it did not involve adding H.


Well, since they say they do not use RF then what would it be? The
Letts/Cravens effect involves lasers. None there. There is the possibility
of an arc discharge, but not likely - no indication. Burst of heat - maybe.
Pulse from an electromagnet- no way.

However, the best bet: notice that about halfway through, one Mec is adding
a T to the hydrogen line with another valve. Why?

Ta-Da ... yes it is argon. It is a Mills catalyst, and we know they use it. 

I could not spot a standard tank of argon anywhere, but there could be a
lecture bottle in there somewhere. Argon cylinders would normally have a
dark green shoulder. They might have cut out the footage of that tank for
the obvious reason.

Jones

RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Alan J Fletcher]

At 04:35 PM 1/30/2012, Robert Leguillon wrote:
As for the sparks: In this tests there where supposed to be two and 
we got two. In other tests, we can maintain the sparks "very very 
close to each other" and for as long as we want.


Frequencies! I smell Frequencies!


They also told us to tell you goodnight


Good night, Dick

(Rowen & Martin Laugh-In joke) 

Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Alan J Fletcher]

At 04:20 PM 1/30/2012, Terry Blanton wrote:
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 4:04 PM,
Jones Beene  wrote:
> Yes, it is basically the same kind of temperature spike seen by
Janssen in
> the BLP video but probably both traces are from RTDs mounted in
different
> locations.
In the BLP video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjOIoPwolg  Jannsen (Rowan U)
was using pretty much the same "bare" inside wall/outside wall
temperature configuration that DGT is offering for an immediate response
... and then they slide the whole unit into a calorimeter to get the
total power. 
The calorimeter seems to be wrapped in a coiled copper tube ... I'm
guessing it is an "external flow" device.

Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Terry Blanton]

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>
> Yes, it is basically the same kind of temperature spike seen by Janssen in
> the BLP video but probably both traces are from RTDs mounted in different
> locations.
>

I asked about the second spike and whether they added H to cause it.
They admitted they did "something"; but, it did not involve adding H.

http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=955

Page 3.  I first misunderstood their answer.  These guys have a good
sense of humor.

So, Jones, they must have added catalyst?  Rowan said the H was spent.
 DGT says that is not the case.

Interesting?

T

Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Terry Blanton]

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 7:35 PM, Robert Leguillon
 wrote:

> As for the sparks: In this tests there where supposed to be two and we got
> two. In other tests, we can maintain the sparks "very very close to each
> other" and for as long as we want.
>
> They also told us to tell you goodnight

Yes, that was me.  This blows the hydrino theory out of the water if
they don't add H.  It also explains how they get a RMS power with a
COP of 20 or better.  Keep pushing those spikes closer together and
the COP keeps going up.

Quite amazin'.

T

RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Robert Leguillon]

>From Defkalion's forum, they area claiming control over power peaks/troughs:
 http://Defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=955&p=5734#p5734
 
Defkalion GT

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:56 pm Posts: 437

@Engineer We had to ask (it was around midnight here ) our R&D people who 
performed that specific test. They replied to your questions as follows:

Q: Can you tell us what actions, if any, are taken by the experimenters between 
the first and second spikes? A:No!

Q:Or do the spikes occur without further action? A: No, they occur following 
some action.

Q:Do you add hydrogen between the two spikes? A: No

So, 3 No's to all of your questions! We can't see why you where confused.

As for the sparks: In this tests there where supposed to be two and we got two. 
In other tests, we can maintain the sparks "very very close to each other" and 
for as long as we want.

They also told us to tell you goodnight

From: ellulpatr...@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 10:06:17 +1100
Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com

I meant, "blurred" - gee i wrote that email in a rush!

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Patrick Ellul  wrote:


You can read it blourrily - "Channel 1 inner", "Channel 2 external"



On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:



Yes, it is basically the same kind of temperature spike seen by Janssen in

the BLP video but probably both traces are from RTDs mounted in different

locations.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjOIoPwolg







From: Terry Blanton

Direct Link:



http://i.imgur.com/g26QI.jpg



T

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

So, Jones (and others)  what do you think we are seeing here?



http://imgur.com/g26QI



[img]http://imgur.com/g26QI[/img] <http://imgur.com/g26QI%5B/img%5D>



Temperature vs time?



T





-- 
Patrick

www.tRacePerfect.com
The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect!



The quickest puzzle ever! 




-- 
Patrick

www.tRacePerfect.com
The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect!


The quickest puzzle ever! 


  

Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Patrick Ellul]

I meant, "blurred" - gee i wrote that email in a rush!

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Patrick Ellul wrote:

> You can read it blourrily - "Channel 1 inner", "Channel 2 external"
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes, it is basically the same kind of temperature spike seen by Janssen in
>> the BLP video but probably both traces are from RTDs mounted in different
>> locations.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjOIoPwolg
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Terry Blanton
>> Direct Link:
>>
>> http://i.imgur.com/g26QI.jpg
>>
>> T
>> On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Terry Blanton 
>> wrote:
>> So, Jones (and others)  what do you think we are seeing here?
>>
>> http://imgur.com/g26QI
>>
>> [img]http://imgur.com/g26QI[/img] 
>>
>> Temperature vs time?
>>
>> T
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Patrick
>
> www.tRacePerfect.com
> The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect!
> The quickest puzzle ever!
>
>


-- 
Patrick

www.tRacePerfect.com
The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect!
The quickest puzzle ever!

Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Patrick Ellul]

You can read it blourrily - "Channel 1 inner", "Channel 2 external"

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:

>
> Yes, it is basically the same kind of temperature spike seen by Janssen in
> the BLP video but probably both traces are from RTDs mounted in different
> locations.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjOIoPwolg
>
>
>
> From: Terry Blanton
> Direct Link:
>
> http://i.imgur.com/g26QI.jpg
>
> T
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
> So, Jones (and others)  what do you think we are seeing here?
>
> http://imgur.com/g26QI
>
> [img]http://imgur.com/g26QI[/img] 
>
> Temperature vs time?
>
> T
>
>


-- 
Patrick

www.tRacePerfect.com
The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect!
The quickest puzzle ever!

RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Jones Beene]

Yes, it is basically the same kind of temperature spike seen by Janssen in
the BLP video but probably both traces are from RTDs mounted in different
locations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjOIoPwolg



From: Terry Blanton 
Direct Link:

http://i.imgur.com/g26QI.jpg

T
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
So, Jones (and others)  what do you think we are seeing here?

http://imgur.com/g26QI

[img]http://imgur.com/g26QI[/img]  

Temperature vs time?

T

<>

Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[ecat builder]

I'm pretty sure they are both temperatures. Heater temp (red) and
reactor temp (blue) is my guess.
The heater is in the 100C range, the other in the 400C range.

The spikes are a puzzle though... Maybe transient interference from
turning on or off the heater? It doesn't seem possible for the tip of
a thermocouple probe to lose 150 degrees C in an instant. But I
suppose if the heater is concentrated or cooled by something, it is
possible.

While red might be something besides temp, it turns out measuring AC
voltage from a variac is not cheap/easy to do with data acquisition
boards... and there would be a much bigger lag between turning the
dial and getting a heat change. If they are like me, they leave the
variac at some voltage and just turn it on or off with a solid state
relay or thermostat controller.

- Brad


>
> My guess is the red (Ch2) is the input from the Variac and blue (Ch1) is the
> reactor temp.
>
> Or do you think it has something to do with the democrats and republicans?
>  ;-)
>
> T
>

Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Terry Blanton]

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> Direct Link:
>
> http://i.imgur.com/g26QI.jpg
>
>
My guess is the red (Ch2) is the input from the Variac and blue (Ch1) is
the reactor temp.

Or do you think it has something to do with the democrats and republicans?
 ;-)

T

Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Terry Blanton]

Direct Link:

http://i.imgur.com/g26QI.jpg

T

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> So, Jones (and others)  what do you think we are seeing here?
>
> http://imgur.com/g26QI
>
> [img]http://imgur.com/g26QI[/img]
>
> Temperature vs time?
>
> T
>

[Vo]:DGT Screenshot

[Terry Blanton]

So, Jones (and others)  what do you think we are seeing here?

http://imgur.com/g26QI

[img]http://imgur.com/g26QI[/img]

Temperature vs time?

T