Re: [Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
On 21/01/2012 5:50 PM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Shaun Taylor shauntaylor...@gmail.com mailto:shauntaylor...@gmail.com wrote: Ok Rossi may not be interested in private investors for Leonardo Corp Well, we don't know that. He says it but it doesn't mean he didn't take money secretly already with people who signed NDA's. For sure, a lot of people on his blog volunteer to send some. How would we know how many he took up on the offer or from other sources?Also, we know he got money from Ampenergo. It was described in an interview by an Ampenergo principal who refused to the name the amount but described it as a major part of the equation or some such words. but instead is working with his licensees to hook in private investors for them and in return for him. Now it is becoming clearer how this scam works. At least how part of it might work. Seems Mary, Jones and others here were correct. There is a scam going on. Dick Smith and Ian Bryce have exposed how it works and apparently are working to stop it as they are now asking for people any country who have been approached to invest in local E-Cat licensees to come forward and contact the Australian Skeptics. That will be interesting, LOL. Maybe it works like this Potential licensee to LENR device provider We are interested but don't have the X million for the license. LENR device provider to potential licensee No problems. Do a dozen green investor meeting. Not with big fish, just a lot of smaller green fish. Easier to fry. I'll do a video Skype call to each meeting and convince the fish our LENR device will save the planet from Global Warming (that is what they want to hear) and then to sign the cheques to do their small part to save the planet. We might need to sweeten the pot by promising each of them to install a 10 kW LENR device in their home for nothing. Maybe you put a few friends, who go first, with dud cheques in the audience to break the ice. Potential licensee to LENR device provider Brilliant. We will be very rich. When do we get to see and test a working LENR device? LENR device provider to potential licensee Why do you need to do that? We have plenty of scientists who have tested our LENR device and say it works fine. Potential licensee to LENR device provider Ok fair enough. When can we expect our first delivery and what are the payment terms? LENR device provider to potential licensee 12 to 18 months. Payment is cash with order. You pay for shipping from our high tech robotized factory, which by the way is heated with our LENR devices. In fact we have been heating our factories and research labs with our LENR devices since 2006 or maybe 2007 or maybe 2008. I forget which. Potential licensee to LENR device provider Ok fair enough. We understand you have sold a big plant. Can we come to see it working and talk to the customer? LENR device provider to potential licensee That is not possible. It is installed at a very secret location where we, the customer's engineers and our control system supplier are working day and night to make it work better and better. We are making amazing progress every day. Really amazing progress. Potential licensee to LENR device provider Fantastic. We are very impressed. We will get lots of green investor meeting arranged and with your help we will get all the funding we need to pay you for our licensee, to start the process to save our planet and generate lots of sales. We will all be famous and go down in the history books. We are so lucky to be able to work with such a great man as yourself. LENR device provider to potential licensee We are at your service. Just don't invite Ian Bryce or Dick Smith from the Australian Skeptics to any of your meetings or tell the newspapers what you are doing. They will try to stop you. They are not believers. Shaun
Re: [Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
Well, maybe the scam doesn't work anything like your speculation. Listen, that interview was a huge waste of my time. This Bryce guy knows far less about any of this then anyone following this on the Vortex. Maryyugo could have done a much better job then Bryce discussing why not to invest or MORE importantly why to insist on INDEPENDANT TESTING if you plan to invest. But what was most distressing about this guys interview was the lack of any information on the connection of this group with Rossi, the investment plan, the people organizing the meeting and their connection with Rossi all of which would have been of some interest. Please stop wasting my time, I spend enough of my day on this topic as it is. Ransom Maybe it works like this Potential licensee to LENR device provider We are interested but don't have the X million for the license. LENR device provider to potential licensee No problems. Do a dozen green investor meeting. Not with big fish, just a lot of smaller green fish. Easier to fry. I'll do a video Skype call to each meeting and convince the fish our LENR device will save the planet from Global Warming (that is what they want to hear) and then to sign the cheques to do their small part to save the planet. We might need to sweeten the pot by promising each of them to install a 10 kW LENR device in their home for nothing. Maybe you put a few friends, who go first, with dud cheques in the audience to break the ice. Potential licensee to LENR device provider Brilliant. We will be very rich. When do we get to see and test a working LENR device? LENR device provider to potential licensee Why do you need to do that? We have plenty of scientists who have tested our LENR device and say it works fine. Potential licensee to LENR device provider Ok fair enough. When can we expect our first delivery and what are the payment terms? LENR device provider to potential licensee 12 to 18 months. Payment is cash with order. You pay for shipping from our high tech robotized factory, which by the way is heated with our LENR devices. In fact we have been heating our factories and research labs with our LENR devices since 2006 or maybe 2007 or maybe 2008. I forget which. Potential licensee to LENR device provider Ok fair enough. We understand you have sold a big plant. Can we come to see it working and talk to the customer? LENR device provider to potential licensee That is not possible. It is installed at a very secret location where we, the customer's engineers and our control system supplier are working day and night to make it work better and better. We are making amazing progress every day. Really amazing progress. Potential licensee to LENR device provider Fantastic. We are very impressed. We will get lots of green investor meeting arranged and with your help we will get all the funding we need to pay you for our licensee, to start the process to save our planet and generate lots of sales. We will all be famous and go down in the history books. We are so lucky to be able to work with such a great man as yourself. LENR device provider to potential licensee We are at your service. Just don't invite Ian Bryce or Dick Smith from the Australian Skeptics to any of your meetings or tell the newspapers what you are doing. They will try to stop you. They are not believers. Shaun
Re: [Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
On 21/01/2012 9:57 PM, Ransom Wuller wrote: Well, maybe the scam doesn't work anything like your speculation. Listen, that interview was a huge waste of my time. This Bryce guy knows far less about any of this then anyone following this on the Vortex. Maryyugo could have done a much better job then Bryce discussing why not to invest or MORE importantly why to insist on INDEPENDANT TESTING if you plan to invest. But what was most distressing about this guys interview was the lack of any information on the connection of this group with Rossi, the investment plan, the people organizing the meeting and their connection with Rossi all of which would have been of some interest. Please stop wasting my time, I spend enough of my day on this topic as it is. Ransom What part of Rossi was to do a live video Skype link and presentation to a meeting that was organized to raise investor funds for this licensee don't you understand? It was promoted that Rossi would, in effect, be there via the Skype link. The word went out far and wide and the money flush green investors flocked to hear what they wanted to hear, cheque books at the ready to contribute to the cause. To bad Ian Bryce was there. Well bad for the Rossi licensee. Good for the investors that put their cheque books away. But when Rossi learned there was a respected aerospace engineer coming to ask questions, the Skype connection never happened. Timing problems it was claimed. What these guys can't phone or text each other to get the timing right? The excuse of bad timing was a very bad one and one that doesn't stack up. As for Bryce's lack of knowledge, he knew enough to understand how much energy it takes to raise the temperature of a known amount of water at a measured rate of increase over time. Bryce did the calcs and the rate of increase was twice that of the applied power, even when increasing the water temperature from 23 deg C. So the rate of water temperature increase versus the amount of applied power is doggy at best and intentionally fraudulent at worst. The longer this continues, the more it will unravel. Rossi's statements will dig his own grave. Shaun
Re: [Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
Shaun, Bryce may be well respected but he is doing a very poor job regarding his research on the technology (and LENR in general). Regarding his calculation: This is also no prove of Rossi conducting a scam but just leaves the possibility that there could still be something else going on. And as to Rossi not attending this Skype meeting: If it is true that he should attend there (who knows except for Rossi and the organizer of the meeting? Was there an official statement from Rossi / Leonardo etc. that Rossi will attend? Perhaps the meeting organizer intended to create his own scam?), then his excuse with the bad timing is another strange (and negative) point in his already erratic behavior. But again: This is also no prove! So do not jump to conclusions too fast... Wolf On 21/01/2012 9:57 PM, Ransom Wuller wrote: Well, maybe the scam doesn't work anything like your speculation. Listen, that interview was a huge waste of my time. This Bryce guy knows far less about any of this then anyone following this on the Vortex. Maryyugo could have done a much better job then Bryce discussing why not to invest or MORE importantly why to insist on INDEPENDANT TESTING if you plan to invest. But what was most distressing about this guys interview was the lack of any information on the connection of this group with Rossi, the investment plan, the people organizing the meeting and their connection with Rossi all of which would have been of some interest. Please stop wasting my time, I spend enough of my day on this topic as it is. Ransom What part of Rossi was to do a live video Skype link and presentation to a meeting that was organized to raise investor funds for this licensee don't you understand? It was promoted that Rossi would, in effect, be there via the Skype link. The word went out far and wide and the money flush green investors flocked to hear what they wanted to hear, cheque books at the ready to contribute to the cause. To bad Ian Bryce was there. Well bad for the Rossi licensee. Good for the investors that put their cheque books away. But when Rossi learned there was a respected aerospace engineer coming to ask questions, the Skype connection never happened. Timing problems it was claimed. What these guys can't phone or text each other to get the timing right? The excuse of bad timing was a very bad one and one that doesn't stack up. As for Bryce's lack of knowledge, he knew enough to understand how much energy it takes to raise the temperature of a known amount of water at a measured rate of increase over time. Bryce did the calcs and the rate of increase was twice that of the applied power, even when increasing the water temperature from 23 deg C. So the rate of water temperature increase versus the amount of applied power is doggy at best and intentionally fraudulent at worst. The longer this continues, the more it will unravel. Rossi's statements will dig his own grave. Shaun
Re: [Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
On 21/01/2012 11:01 PM, Wolf Fischer wrote: Shaun, Bryce may be well respected but he is doing a very poor job regarding his research on the technology (and LENR in general). Regarding his calculation: This is also no prove of Rossi conducting a scam but just leaves the possibility that there could still be something else going on. And as to Rossi not attending this Skype meeting: If it is true that he should attend there (who knows except for Rossi and the organizer of the meeting? Was there an official statement from Rossi / Leonardo etc. that Rossi will attend? Perhaps the meeting organizer intended to create his own scam?), then his excuse with the bad timing is another strange (and negative) point in his already erratic behavior. But again: This is also no prove! So do not jump to conclusions too fast... Wolf Dick Smith sent Ian Bryce there to talk to Rossi because the Rossi Skype video link was announced to be happening. That Rossi was to be there via a Skype link was stated in the first newspaper account. I expected the attendees would be potential home E-Cat buyers. When I found out the attendees were there as investors for the Rossi Australian licensee, it all became very clear what was going on. Seems the penny dropped about what was happening with Bryce and Smith as well. Shaun
Re: [Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
I did a little research on this investor and so on. From what I see: This Bryon New Energy Group has been formed by a man called Sol Millin. This guy once (or still?) advertised a car running on water, using a cosmic water cell... See here: http://www.soulsofdistortion.nl/BNE.html http://www.byronnewenergy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page This Bryon New Energy Group itself seems to have a record of highly speculative investments, to say this in a politically correct way. So, coming back to your mail: Yes, the Rossi talk was announced. But by whom? Rossi himself? Or just by this Sol Millin and his strange Bryon New Energy Group? And your speculation that he dropped out because he might have gotten information about this Bryce and Smith guy attending... Really? a) Rossi showed his device to some much more clever guys than this Bryce person (all those well known professors, and they have seen this thing hands on). So why should he have been afraid of this one person? b) Perhaps Rossi just found out later about this Sol Millin guy and his very strange Investment Group. Could also have happened. What I am saying: I don't know. But you don't know either :) There are still perfectly valid interpretations for both sides of the coin. Wolf On 21/01/2012 11:01 PM, Wolf Fischer wrote: Shaun, Bryce may be well respected but he is doing a very poor job regarding his research on the technology (and LENR in general). Regarding his calculation: This is also no prove of Rossi conducting a scam but just leaves the possibility that there could still be something else going on. And as to Rossi not attending this Skype meeting: If it is true that he should attend there (who knows except for Rossi and the organizer of the meeting? Was there an official statement from Rossi / Leonardo etc. that Rossi will attend? Perhaps the meeting organizer intended to create his own scam?), then his excuse with the bad timing is another strange (and negative) point in his already erratic behavior. But again: This is also no prove! So do not jump to conclusions too fast... Wolf Dick Smith sent Ian Bryce there to talk to Rossi because the Rossi Skype video link was announced to be happening. That Rossi was to be there via a Skype link was stated in the first newspaper account. I expected the attendees would be potential home E-Cat buyers. When I found out the attendees were there as investors for the Rossi Australian licensee, it all became very clear what was going on. Seems the penny dropped about what was happening with Bryce and Smith as well. Shaun
Re: [Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
This is what I think. Just a scamer trying to get to profit from the Rossi story in the same way that AG wanted, but none of them really were really doing business with Rossi. 2012/1/21 Wolf Fischer wolffisc...@gmx.de I did a little research on this investor and so on. From what I see: This Bryon New Energy Group has been formed by a man called Sol Millin. This guy once (or still?) advertised a car running on water, using a cosmic water cell... See here: http://www.soulsofdistortion.**nl/BNE.htmlhttp://www.soulsofdistortion.nl/BNE.html http://www.byronnewenergy.com/**wiki/index.php?title=Main_Pagehttp://www.byronnewenergy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page This Bryon New Energy Group itself seems to have a record of highly speculative investments, to say this in a politically correct way. So, coming back to your mail: Yes, the Rossi talk was announced. But by whom? Rossi himself? Or just by this Sol Millin and his strange Bryon New Energy Group? And your speculation that he dropped out because he might have gotten information about this Bryce and Smith guy attending... Really? a) Rossi showed his device to some much more clever guys than this Bryce person (all those well known professors, and they have seen this thing hands on). So why should he have been afraid of this one person? b) Perhaps Rossi just found out later about this Sol Millin guy and his very strange Investment Group. Could also have happened. What I am saying: I don't know. But you don't know either :) There are still perfectly valid interpretations for both sides of the coin. Wolf On 21/01/2012 11:01 PM, Wolf Fischer wrote: Shaun, Bryce may be well respected but he is doing a very poor job regarding his research on the technology (and LENR in general). Regarding his calculation: This is also no prove of Rossi conducting a scam but just leaves the possibility that there could still be something else going on. And as to Rossi not attending this Skype meeting: If it is true that he should attend there (who knows except for Rossi and the organizer of the meeting? Was there an official statement from Rossi / Leonardo etc. that Rossi will attend? Perhaps the meeting organizer intended to create his own scam?), then his excuse with the bad timing is another strange (and negative) point in his already erratic behavior. But again: This is also no prove! So do not jump to conclusions too fast... Wolf Dick Smith sent Ian Bryce there to talk to Rossi because the Rossi Skype video link was announced to be happening. That Rossi was to be there via a Skype link was stated in the first newspaper account. I expected the attendees would be potential home E-Cat buyers. When I found out the attendees were there as investors for the Rossi Australian licensee, it all became very clear what was going on. Seems the penny dropped about what was happening with Bryce and Smith as well. Shaun -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
On 22/01/2012 1:17 AM, Wolf Fischer wrote: I did a little research on this investor and so on. From what I see: This Bryon New Energy Group has been formed by a man called Sol Millin. This guy once (or still?) advertised a car running on water, using a cosmic water cell... See here: http://www.soulsofdistortion.nl/BNE.html http://www.byronnewenergy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page This Bryon New Energy Group itself seems to have a record of highly speculative investments, to say this in a politically correct way. So, coming back to your mail: Yes, the Rossi talk was announced. But by whom? Rossi himself? Or just by this Sol Millin and his strange Bryon New Energy Group? And your speculation that he dropped out because he might have gotten information about this Bryce and Smith guy attending... Really? a) Rossi showed his device to some much more clever guys than this Bryce person (all those well known professors, and they have seen this thing hands on). So why should he have been afraid of this one person? b) Perhaps Rossi just found out later about this Sol Millin guy and his very strange Investment Group. Could also have happened. What I am saying: I don't know. But you don't know either :) There are still perfectly valid interpretations for both sides of the coin. Wolf It was announced in the newspaper that Smith was sending Bryce to be part of the video hookup with Rossi. Smith said he would invest $200k in the business if Bryce gave it the thumbs up. Smith would not have sent Bryce there if all Bryce was going to do was listen to Millin talk. While I have no proof, I would expect a few of those going to the meeting would have emailed Rossi to check on the validity of Millin's claim to be the Australian licensee. No one would invest money with Millin without that being made very clear and at least sighting the necessary executed documents to back up Millin's claim. Shaun
Re: [Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
Exactly, you have no proof. What you have is the same thing Rossi has, Rossi says, Smith says, Shaun says I didn't hear half of the nonsense you are posting in that interview with Bryce, who by the way seems as clueless to me as a lot of the Rossi followers just on the other side of the nut house. Frankly, I am really tired of all the speculation, when you have something beside he said, she said, come back. The same goes for all those supporting Rossi. I used the Vortex for real information before Maryyugo popped in and the rest of the nuts on either side of this drama. I wish it would go back to a more fact based site for information flow. I'm receiving e-mails out the yin-yang now and it is getting ridiculous. Ransom While I have no proof, I would expect a few of those going to the meeting would have emailed Rossi to check on the validity of Millin's claim to be the Australian licensee. No one would invest money with Millin without that being made very clear and at least sighting the necessary executed documents to back up Millin's claim. Shaun
Re: [Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
Shaun Taylor shauntaylor...@gmail.com wrote: Been a Vortex web lurker too long. Finally something that blows up Rossi, his lunatic supporters and exposes how this scam works. . . . I suggest you go back to lurking. Your message is nothing but speculation and blather. You know nothing about Rossi's business, or why Rossi did not place a telephone call. You, Mary Yugo and the other trolls should please go form your own discussion group. This group is about science, not rumors and character assassination. Rossi's flamboyant antics should not be the main focus here. Your speculation about these antics is far off topic. In any case, the notion that someone would try to judge this based on a phone call is ridiculous. With $200,000 involved, I was assuming this expert would go to Italy for a few weeks and do hands-on testing. There is no way anyone can make an evaluation based on a few phone calls. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: You, Mary Yugo and the other trolls should please go form your own discussion group. I think one of the rules of the group is that it tolerates dissent and also that insults are discouraged. This group is about science, not rumors and character assassination. Yes but your method of supporting Rossi is hardly about proper science. It's about wanting too badly to believe him. Rossi's flamboyant antics should not be the main focus here. Your speculation about these antics is far off topic. No it's not. If someone lies to you about just about everything that they do and has a history of prior convictions for fraud and has two major projects consecutively that were disastrous failures, there is no reason to believe anything they say without proof. The October 28 demo was entirely without the slightest proof. The prior demos all had significant weaknesses. In any case, the notion that someone would try to judge this based on a phone call is ridiculous. With $200,000 involved, I was assuming this expert would go to Italy for a few weeks and do hands-on testing. There is no way anyone can make an evaluation based on a few phone calls. But that's the thing. Nobody has done independent hands on testing -- with either Rossi *or* Defkalion.
Re: [Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
On 12-01-21 02:13 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: You, Mary Yugo and the other trolls... I disagree with the characterization of MY as a troll. Trolling generally refers to making outrageous, offensive, or clearly bogus statements to get a reaction from people. Attacking Rossi, and asserting that those who believe in him do so with too little evidence, is hardly what I would call trolling.
Re: [Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
I wouldn't characterize MY as troll either, but annoyingly repetative and of no value whatsoever to this site, absolutely. I don't care that you think Rossi is a fake, I would prefer this site be restricted to technical discussions of the science and even technical discussions of the evidence regarding Rossi and LENR, not all the speculation based on nothing that is now occuring. Ransom On 12-01-21 02:13 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: You, Mary Yugo and the other trolls... I disagree with the characterization of MY as a troll. Trolling generally refers to making outrageous, offensive, or clearly bogus statements to get a reaction from people. Attacking Rossi, and asserting that those who believe in him do so with too little evidence, is hardly what I would call trolling.
Re: [Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: I disagree with the characterization of MY as a troll. Trolling generally refers to making outrageous, offensive, or clearly bogus statements to get a reaction from people. Whatever it is called, I wish they would stop. The Internet has plenty more space. Take it elsewhere. Go edit Wikipedia. The Internet is like the Universe; finite but unbounded. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 2:16 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Whatever it is called, I wish they would stop. I am sure you do but your problem isn't with Rossi's critics. It's with Rossi. He could stop all the critique any time he wanted to and easily with low risk. You should be upset with him, not us. We're just responding to his tangentiality, evasion and probable deception-- all completely unnecessary as well as ineffective for protection of IP if there is any. Ask him to stop. People project, elaborately and at length, in meticulous detail, mechanisms of action and future consequences for a claim that is completely unproven. They seem to enjoy that. I find that objectionable and counterproductive so I respond to it. But I am not suggesting that authors of it be banned or muffled.
RE: [Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
Jed sez: ... Go edit Wikipedia. LOL! An excellent project indeed. Thanks, Jed. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
Been a Vortex web lurker too long. Finally something that blows up Rossi, his lunatic supporters and exposes how this scam works. http://skepticzone.libsyn.com/webpage/the-skeptic-zone-170-21-jan-2012 It is good to see Ian Bryce of the Australian Skeptics taking a slice out of Rossi, doing the numbers and openly showing Rossi's data doesn't stack up and is fabricated. I bet plenty of people at that meeting still invested their money. Too bad there are plenty of green and stupid people around who want to believe Rossi and his E-Cat will save the planet, even when Ian Bryce shows them it fails the 3 legged stool test. Don't you find it very interesting Rossi was scheduled to talk, via a Skype video link, to a group of family sized investors, despite saying that he was not interested in personal investors? I bet the licensee, after talking with Bryce and seeing he was negative, told Rossi not to call. Ok Rossi may not be interested in private investors for Leonardo Corp but instead is working with his licensees to hook in private investors for them and in return for him. Now it is becoming clearer how this scam works. Seems Mary, Jones and others here were correct. There is a scam going on. Dick Smith and Ian Bryce have exposed how it works and apparently are working to stop it as they are now asking for people any country who have been approached to invest in local E-Cat licensees to come forward and contact the Australian Skeptics. It is good to be an Australian skeptic, see someone prove my doubts were correct and to finally see this scam exposed as to how it works and before anyone loses any more money.
Re: [Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Shaun Taylor shauntaylor...@gmail.comwrote: Ok Rossi may not be interested in private investors for Leonardo Corp Well, we don't know that. He says it but it doesn't mean he didn't take money secretly already with people who signed NDA's. For sure, a lot of people on his blog volunteer to send some. How would we know how many he took up on the offer or from other sources?Also, we know he got money from Ampenergo. It was described in an interview by an Ampenergo principal who refused to the name the amount but described it as a major part of the equation or some such words. but instead is working with his licensees to hook in private investors for them and in return for him. Now it is becoming clearer how this scam works. At least how part of it might work. Seems Mary, Jones and others here were correct. There is a scam going on. Dick Smith and Ian Bryce have exposed how it works and apparently are working to stop it as they are now asking for people any country who have been approached to invest in local E-Cat licensees to come forward and contact the Australian Skeptics. That will be interesting, LOL.
