Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[francis]

 

 

From: francis [mailto:froarty...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 9:36 PM
To: 'dlrober...@aol.com'
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

 

Dave,

   You are getting to the heart of it quickly. First there is
definitely energy present even at absolute zero gas will not become solid -
and no one will dispute that gas motion is powered by the Heisenberg
Uncertainty Principle BUT. we have always been taught that the energy is too
chaotic and on too tiny of a scale for us to organize it. Mechanization is
already at the macro scale and nature will always seek balance through the
path of least resistance which is why stiction forces are so problematic in
nano construction. nature wants the spectrum of virtual particle sizes to be
uniform such that when conductive materials are thrown together in bulk the
pieces self attract trying to close the gap between and return the spectrum
to a uniform value [vacuum energy density]. If a gap does form the energy
density is suppressed and gas atoms migrating through the gap transform from
our perspective to different fractional values- And yes you are correct that
if this proposal by Naudts is correct then it will exactly reverse upon
exiting the gap with no change in energy level. This is where the conditions
in these experiments must cause an asymmetry for there to be a net gain or
loss. Haisch and Moddel suggest a "Lamb Pinch" while I propose that the IRH
and Hydrino are actually normal hydrogen based on Naudts 2005 paper and
therefore CAN take on the molecular form and that it is this choice of
atomic and molecular bonding that provides us the opportunity to arrange an
asymmetrical path. It is my posit that h1 translates to different fractional
values freely while h2 has a covalent bond that opposes this translation.
>From our perspective the orbital appears smaller and perhaps is seen as a
nearby electron while the proton appears much smaller and displaced like the
rubber nose of a badminton birdie stretched ever more distant as the
fractional value becomes smaller. When fractional h2 forms these nearby
electrons form a hinge opposing the motive force of virtual particles on the
paired protons. If I am correct this would form  a "natural"  self assembled
HUP trap in that gas law motion is organized to discount the energy needed
to disassociate the molecule. I think the signal generators and other forms
of agitation described in this research are also necessary to synchronize
the rectification or the force will simply push the molecules back in a
direction that alleviates the discount.

See http://psiphen.colorado.edu/Pubs/VacEnergyExtrac_Jan10.pdf 

 

Fran   

 

David Roberson
Fri, 04 Nov 2011 13:47:03 -0700

You are correct Fran, I am confused about the hydrino theory.  I think I 

understand that you imply that the hydrino can not exist outside of the 

nanotube structure.  If this is true then it would not be possible to
extract 

energy from the beast.  Whatever you borrowed must be returned very soon.
At 

least that is the way I understand thermodynamics.  Does that theory
actually 

allow energy to be taken from the vacuum?  If so, I would like to understand


that a lot better.  Also, has anyone been able to extract energy this way
and 

then do it again with the same hydrogen atom?  I have a difficult time 

understanding that principle.

 

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-

From: Roarty, Francis X 

To: vortex-l 

Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:22 pm

Subject: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

 

 

 

Dave,

I think you have an underlying misconception. It isn't
thermal 

energy that is being exploited, catalytic energy is related to Casimir
geometry 

which in the case of nanotubes only occurs at openings and defects in the 

nanotube as recently discovered by Peng Chen at Cornell using an AFM. This 

establishes a relationship between catalytic action and change in Casimir
force 

- geometry. It is a difference in vacuum energy density not temperature that


feeds the reaction so you are not exhausting a thermal reservoir. IMHO this
is 

why gas is a necessary part of the equation since relative mot ion of gas to


the Casimir geometry is maintained by HUP. This is the same source of energy


that keeps gas from becoming solid at absolute zero.. hence can be referred
to 

as Zero Point Energy. The similarity between skeletal catalysts and the
Casimir 

geometry of nano powders also supports this relationship.

 

Within the context of the above relationship there can be no


hydrino without Casimir geometry, as the hydrino or IRH diffuses out of the 

catalyst or nano powder it simply translates back to normal hydrogen. There 

would therefore  be no hydrinos floating freely in the atmosphere and it 

remains an open question if di-hydrinos are even possible much less if

Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[David Roberson]

You are correct Fran, I am confused about the hydrino theory.  I think I 
understand that you imply that the hydrino can not exist outside of the 
nanotube structure.  If this is true then it would not be possible to extract 
energy from the beast.  Whatever you borrowed must be returned very soon.  At 
least that is the way I understand thermodynamics.  Does that theory actually 
allow energy to be taken from the vacuum?  If so, I would like to understand 
that a lot better.  Also, has anyone been able to extract energy this way and 
then do it again with the same hydrogen atom?  I have a difficult time 
understanding that principle.

Dave



-Original Message-
From: Roarty, Francis X 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:22 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg



Dave,
I think you have an underlying misconception. It isn’t thermal 
energy that is being exploited, catalytic energy is related to Casimir geometry 
which in the case of nanotubes only occurs at openings and defects in the 
nanotube as recently discovered by Peng Chen at Cornell using an AFM. This 
establishes a relationship between catalytic action and change in Casimir force 
– geometry. It is a difference in vacuum energy density not temperature that 
feeds the reaction so you are not exhausting a thermal reservoir. IMHO this is 
why gas is a necessary part of the equation since relative mot ion of gas to 
the Casimir geometry is maintained by HUP. This is the same source of energy 
that keeps gas from becoming solid at absolute zero.. hence can be referred to 
as Zero Point Energy. The similarity between skeletal catalysts and the Casimir 
geometry of nano powders also supports this relationship.
 
Within the context of the above relationship there can be no 
hydrino without Casimir geometry, as the hydrino or IRH diffuses out of the 
catalyst or nano powder it simply translates back to normal hydrogen. There 
would therefore  be no hydrinos floating freely in the atmosphere and it 
remains an open question if di-hydrinos are even possible much less if their 
covalent bond could hold the hydrino in this catalyzed state outside of the 
catalyst.  If Jan Naudts is correct about the hydrino / IRH being relativistic 
then one could say the hydrino only exists from a relativistic perspective and 
locally appears just like normal hydrogen. Most would say this kind of time 
dilation or equivalent acceleration is impossible in the confines of a bulk 
material sitting in a lab but we are conditioned to think in terms of a 
Pythagorean relationship with C to solve for gamma and I think suppression side 
steps this issue. Suppression reduces energy density instead of increasing it 
and instead of equivalent acceleration it affords equivalent de-acceleration. 
Regards
 
Fran
 

From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 4:37 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as 
fractional Rydberg

 

Thank you for the response.  The hydrino cycle that I am describing, aka heat 
pump of some unusual type, would allow energy contained within the thermal&n 
bsp;surroundings to do work.  I can imagine some of that work being used to 
generate radiant energy that could then escape the system.  This escaping 
energy would cause the local system to cool off.  This technique sounds a lot 
like a violation of the laws of thermodynamics.  I guess that a similar process 
occurs when a dust cloud  cools down by radiating heat energy.   Is there any 
way that we can verify that a process exists which will enable the hydrinos to 
absorb the hypothetical energy you discussed and emerge as hydrogen again?

 

Dave  



-Original Message-
From: mixent 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Wed, Nov 2, 2011 3:35 pm
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as 
fractional Rydberg

In reply to  David Roberson's message of Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:12:47 -0400 (EDT):
Hi,
[snip]
> 
>That is the question that I would like to have answered.  Would the hydrino be 
able to acquire the needed energy from the thermal energy available of the 
atmosphere?  If not, why have not all of the hydrogen atoms in existence (on 
earth) been catalyzed during the eons of time that has been available?  
 
Because in order to be catalyzed, they need to exist as individual atoms,
whereas all the Hydrogen on Earth exists bound in chemical compounds.
Furthermore even when present as an atom, it still needs to c
me across a
catalyst atom too.
 
>My main purpose for asking the question is to determine if some type of heat 
pump could be used where hydrogen is turned into hydrinos releasing heat and 
then released.  Then I was hoping that they would reacquire the energy from the 
thermal environment to be recycled.  This sounds like a breech of the second 
law, but why not give it a t

Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[Roarty, Francis X]

Dave,
I think you have an underlying misconception. It isn't thermal 
energy that is being exploited, catalytic energy is related to Casimir geometry 
which in the case of nanotubes only occurs at openings and defects in the 
nanotube as recently discovered by Peng Chen at Cornell using an AFM. This 
establishes a relationship between catalytic action and change in Casimir force 
- geometry. It is a difference in vacuum energy density not temperature that 
feeds the reaction so you are not exhausting a thermal reservoir. IMHO this is 
why gas is a necessary part of the equation since relative motion of gas to the 
Casimir geometry is maintained by HUP. This is the same source of energy that 
keeps gas from becoming solid at absolute zero.. hence can be referred to as 
Zero Point Energy. The similarity between skeletal catalysts and the Casimir 
geometry of nano powders also supports this relationship.

Within the context of the above relationship there can be no 
hydrino without Casimir geometry, as the hydrino or IRH diffuses out of the 
catalyst or nano powder it simply translates back to normal hydrogen. There 
would therefore  be no hydrinos floating freely in the atmosphere and it 
remains an open question if di-hydrinos are even possible much less if their 
covalent bond could hold the hydrino in this catalyzed state outside of the 
catalyst.  If Jan Naudts is correct about the hydrino / IRH being relativistic 
then one could say the hydrino only exists from a relativistic perspective and 
locally appears just like normal hydrogen. Most would say this kind of time 
dilation or equivalent acceleration is impossible in the confines of a bulk 
material sitting in a lab but we are conditioned to think in terms of a 
Pythagorean relationship with C to solve for gamma and I think suppression side 
steps this issue. Suppression reduces energy density instead of increasing it 
and instead of equivalent acceleration it affords equivalent de-acceleration.
Regards

Fran

From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 4:37 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as 
fractional Rydberg

Thank you for the response.  The hydrino cycle that I am describing, aka heat 
pump of some unusual type, would allow energy contained within the thermal 
surroundings to do work.  I can imagine some of that work being used to 
generate radiant energy that could then escape the system.  This escaping 
energy would cause the local system to cool off.  This technique sounds a lot 
like a violation of the laws of thermodynamics.  I guess that a similar process 
occurs when a dust cloud  cools down by radiating heat energy.   Is there any 
way that we can verify that a process exists which will enable the hydrinos to 
absorb the hypothetical energy you discussed and emerge as hydrogen again?

Dave

-Original Message-
From: mixent 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Wed, Nov 2, 2011 3:35 pm
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as 
fractional Rydberg

In reply to  David Roberson's message of Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:12:47 -0400 (EDT):

Hi,

[snip]

>

>That is the question that I would like to have answered.  Would the hydrino be

able to acquire the needed energy from the thermal energy available of the

atmosphere?  If not, why have not all of the hydrogen atoms in existence (on

earth) been catalyzed during the eons of time that has been available?



Because in order to be catalyzed, they need to exist as individual atoms,

whereas all the Hydrogen on Earth exists bound in chemical compounds.

Furthermore even when present as an atom, it still needs to come across a

catalyst atom too.



>My main purpose for asking the question is to determine if some type of heat

pump could be used where hydrogen is turned into hydrinos releasing heat and

then released.  Then I was hoping that they would reacquire the energy from the

thermal environment to be recycled.  This sounds like a breech of the second

law, but why not give it a try. :-)

>

>Dave

I don't think so, though perhaps solar x-rays in the upper atmosphere might

reconstitute them.



Regards,



Robin van Spaandonk



http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[mixent]

In reply to  David Roberson's message of Wed, 2 Nov 2011 16:37:00 -0400 (EDT):
Hi,
[snip]
>
>Thank you for the response.  The hydrino cycle that I am describing, aka heat 
>pump of some unusual type, would allow energy contained within the thermal 
>surroundings to do work.  I can imagine some of that work being used to 
>generate radiant energy that could then escape the system.  This escaping 
>energy would cause the local system to cool off.  This technique sounds a lot 
>like a violation of the laws of thermodynamics.  I guess that a similar 
>process occurs when a dust cloud  cools down by radiating heat energy.   Is 
>there any way that we can verify that a process exists which will enable the 
>hydrinos to absorb the hypothetical energy you discussed and emerge as 
>hydrogen again?

If you hit a Hydrino with another atom fast enough, it should be possible to
ionize it, however this is much more difficult than ionizing a normal hydrogen
atom, and the percentage of other atoms (at room temperature) that would have
enough energy is incredibly small (vanishing tip of the Boltzmann tail). That's
why I suggested solar x-rays in the upper atmosphere.

>
>Dave  
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[David Roberson]

Thank you for the response.  The hydrino cycle that I am describing, aka heat 
pump of some unusual type, would allow energy contained within the thermal 
surroundings to do work.  I can imagine some of that work being used to 
generate radiant energy that could then escape the system.  This escaping 
energy would cause the local system to cool off.  This technique sounds a lot 
like a violation of the laws of thermodynamics.  I guess that a similar process 
occurs when a dust cloud  cools down by radiating heat energy.   Is there any 
way that we can verify that a process exists which will enable the hydrinos to 
absorb the hypothetical energy you discussed and emerge as hydrogen again?

Dave  



-Original Message-
From: mixent 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Wed, Nov 2, 2011 3:35 pm
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as 
fractional Rydberg


In reply to  David Roberson's message of Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:12:47 -0400 (EDT):
i,
snip]

That is the question that I would like to have answered.  Would the hydrino be 
ble to acquire the needed energy from the thermal energy available of the 
tmosphere?  If not, why have not all of the hydrogen atoms in existence (on 
arth) been catalyzed during the eons of time that has been available?  
Because in order to be catalyzed, they need to exist as individual atoms,
hereas all the Hydrogen on Earth exists bound in chemical compounds.
urthermore even when present as an atom, it still needs to come across a
atalyst atom too.
>My main purpose for asking the question is to determine if some type of heat 
ump could be used where hydrogen is turned into hydrinos releasing heat and 
hen released.  Then I was hoping that they would reacquire the energy from the 
hermal environment to be recycled.  This sounds like a breech of the second 
aw, but why not give it a try. :-)

Dave
 don't think so, though perhaps solar x-rays in the upper atmosphere might
econstitute them.
Regards,
Robin van Spaandonk
http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[mixent]

In reply to  David Roberson's message of Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:12:47 -0400 (EDT):
Hi,
[snip]
>
>That is the question that I would like to have answered.  Would the hydrino be 
>able to acquire the needed energy from the thermal energy available of the 
>atmosphere?  If not, why have not all of the hydrogen atoms in existence (on 
>earth) been catalyzed during the eons of time that has been available?  

Because in order to be catalyzed, they need to exist as individual atoms,
whereas all the Hydrogen on Earth exists bound in chemical compounds.
Furthermore even when present as an atom, it still needs to come across a
catalyst atom too.

>My main purpose for asking the question is to determine if some type of heat 
>pump could be used where hydrogen is turned into hydrinos releasing heat and 
>then released.  Then I was hoping that they would reacquire the energy from 
>the thermal environment to be recycled.  This sounds like a breech of the 
>second law, but why not give it a try. :-)
>
>Dave
I don't think so, though perhaps solar x-rays in the upper atmosphere might
reconstitute them.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[David Roberson]

That is the question that I would like to have answered.  Would the hydrino be 
able to acquire the needed energy from the thermal energy available of the 
atmosphere?  If not, why have not all of the hydrogen atoms in existence (on 
earth) been catalyzed during the eons of time that has been available?  My main 
purpose for asking the question is to determine if some type of heat pump could 
be used where hydrogen is turned into hydrinos releasing heat and then 
released.  Then I was hoping that they would reacquire the energy from the 
thermal environment to be recycled.  This sounds like a breech of the second 
law, but why not give it a try. :-)

Dave



-Original Message-
From: mixent 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Wed, Nov 2, 2011 3:16 am
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as 
fractional Rydberg


In reply to  David Roberson's message of Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:44:58 -0400 (EDT):
i,
snip]
Does anyone understand what happens to one of these fractional Rydberg hydrogen 
toms once it is released into the atmosphere?  Does it gain energy from the air 
nd become standard hydrogen?  I am just curious?

 order to be small enough to qualify as IRH, each atom has to give up hundreds
f eV of energy. In order to expand again, it would have to somehow reacquire
hat energy.
Regards,
Robin van Spaandonk
http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[Danny Ross Lunsford]

Not yet

--
"I write a little. I erase a lot." - Chopin



--- On Wed, 11/2/11, mix...@bigpond.com  wrote:
around the peak - call it "fussion".

Do you have a more concrete explanation than this hand waving?

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Tue, 1 Nov 2011 15:38:36 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>Somehow inverse Rydberg matter
>may be formed between and among these tubules with the help of the high
>pressure and temperature of the hydrogen envelop and the mediating action
>of an alkaline catalyst.

When did "we" discover that the catalyst was alkaline?

>
>When all those electrons and protons that comprise a inverse Rydberg
>molecule are packed into the very small space between these surface
>tubules, this set of subatomic particles gain a lot of energy… maybe from
>Zero Point Energy…or just from the uncertainty principle.

No, they lose a lot of energy (hundreds of eV / atom)! (Major reduction of the
distance between positive and negative charges). There is nothing magical (ZPE)
about this. This is probably the major source of energy in Rossi's reactor.

>
>Dr. George Miley shows in his experiments and also in the Rossi ash, 

Has Miley had an opportunity to analyze Rossi's ash?

>what
>comes out of this process is a zoo of other transmuted elements all up and
>down the periodic table.
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[mixent]

In reply to  Danny Ross Lunsford's message of Tue, 1 Nov 2011 10:46:34 -0700
(PDT):
Hi,
[snip]
>Fractional Rydberg? That's nonsense too - this isn't chemistry, it's not 
>electrons. It's nucleons. The key point is that nickel 62 is at the peak of 
>the binding-energy-per-nucleon curve. Somehow I think a circular reaction is 
>going on around the peak - call it "fussion".

Do you have a more concrete explanation than this hand waving?

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[mixent]

In reply to  David Roberson's message of Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:44:58 -0400 (EDT):
Hi,
[snip]
>Does anyone understand what happens to one of these fractional Rydberg 
>hydrogen atoms once it is released into the atmosphere?  Does it gain energy 
>from the air and become standard hydrogen?  I am just curious?
>
I order to be small enough to qualify as IRH, each atom has to give up hundreds
of eV of energy. In order to expand again, it would have to somehow reacquire
that energy.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[mixent]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:15:21 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>IOW – yes there are electrons in the general vicinity, which balance the 
>electrostatic charge of protons or deuterons, but according to Miley the 
>electrons in IRH are not located in orbitals around the protons - which 
>includes fractional orbitals. My apology if I have misread these papers.

No, Miley would have the protons orbiting the electrons, rather like the tail
wagging the dog.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[mixent]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:15:21 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>When the electron is not bound in a periodic motion of some kind around the 
>nucleus, there is NO orbital. 

This describes the case when ordinary QM applies.

>When there is no orbital there can be NO fractional orbital. Miley makes this 
>clear.

Mills most definitely does describe an orbital. Personally, I think both can be
valid, but that the orbital case is (much?) less common.
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[mixent]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:15:21 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>Lawandy also claims the electron is mirrored in an adjacent dielectric – not 
>orbital.

Lawandy bases his concept upon the notion of a surface. However at the density
he hopes to achieve, the spacing between positive charges is already much
smaller than even a single atom, hence the concept of a surface no longer
applies.

(Note that at atomic distances no fusion happens anyway, unless perhaps by
Horace's mechanism, or WL.)
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[mixent]

In reply to  Danny Ross Lunsford's message of Tue, 1 Nov 2011 10:27:58 -0700
(PDT):
Hi,
[snip]
>You can forget the hydrino. It does no good to adhere to bad ideas. Angular 
>momentum conservation prevents it. We need to use good physics to get to the 
>bottom of this phenomenon, and ruthlessly eliminate the bad ideas.

Angular momentum is conserved in Mills model.
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[Jones Beene]

Fran,

 

Mills may be doubly wrong – if that is really what he has been claiming 
recently. I haven’t followed his most recent delusions.

 

According to my understanding of the several Miley, Holmlid, Hora papers – the 
electron is NOT bound to the nucleus when in the inverted Rydberg state (IRH). 
In fact, the electron can be relatively stationary (deflated) and the proton 
can circulate. Lawandy also claims the electron is mirrored in an adjacent 
dielectric – not orbital.

 

When the electron is not bound in a periodic motion of some kind around the 
nucleus, there is NO orbital. When there is no orbital there can be NO 
fractional orbital. Miley makes this clear.

 

IOW – yes there are electrons in the general vicinity, which balance the 
electrostatic charge of protons or deuterons, but according to Miley the 
electrons in IRH are not located in orbitals around the protons - which 
includes fractional orbitals. My apology if I have misread these papers.

 

If I had to chose which one is correct - between Miley and Mills – that is a no 
brainer.

 

Jones

 

 

From: Roarty, Francis X 

 

That is exactly what I was saying…  Now that Mills admits the “hydrino” is 
actually fractional Rydberg hydrogen the term hydrino not only becomes 
redundant but also carries all the baggage of his previously wrong definition 
that caused so much controversy

 

Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[Daniel Rocha]

I typed "most energetic of all chemical reactions" on google


http://www.google.com.br/search?num=100&hl=pt-BR&safe=off&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-US&rlz=1I7GGLL_pt-BR&q=%22most+energetic+of+all+chemical+reactions%22&oq=%22most+energetic+of+all+chemical+reactions%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=0l0l0l38387l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0

It seems that it is N+N - > N2 and not that one with hydrogen...

2011/11/1 Danny Ross Lunsford 

> It's because the most energetic of all chemical reactions is recombination
> of monatomic hydrogen to diatomic hydrogen. This may be partially involved
> in the Rossi process.
>
>
> --
> "I write a little. I erase a lot." - Chopin
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[Danny Ross Lunsford]

It's because the most energetic of all chemical reactions is recombination of 
monatomic hydrogen to diatomic hydrogen. This may be partially involved in the 
Rossi process.

--
"I write a little. I erase a lot." - Chopin

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[Peter Gluck]

Dear Axil,

 what you say is more true for Piantelli who has created
Transition Metals LENR.

Peter

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> I will remind the theorists among us again that Rossi states in his patent
> that copper can be used as a micro powder material as an alternative to
> nickel. This implies that the physical and/or chemical properties of Nickel
> are not critical to the Rossi reaction.
>
> Rossi has surveyed many other transition metals to support his reaction.
> He found that nickel performed the best but conversely the other transition
> metals work almost as well.
>
>
> Nano-engineering is all important in the Rossi process. This indicates to
> me that the nuclear and/or chemical properties of the micro-metal are not
> as important as the nano surface preparation of the micro-powder.
>
> In simple terms in my opinion, the topology of the nano-structures is what
> makes the Rossi reaction go. Rossi calls this topology "tubules" and spent
> six months working day and night to optimize this surface structure.
>
> The changing work functions of the varied polycrystalline structures of
> these tubules will break apart H2 into H.  Somehow inverse Rydberg matter
> may be formed between and among these tubules with the help of the high
> pressure and temperature of the hydrogen envelop and the mediating action
> of an alkaline catalyst.
>
> When all those electrons and protons that comprise a inverse Rydberg
> molecule are packed into the very small space between these surface
> tubules, this set of subatomic particles gain a lot of energy… maybe from
> Zero Point Energy…or just from the uncertainty principle.
>
> Dr. George Miley shows in his experiments and also in the Rossi ash, what
> comes out of this process is a zoo of other transmuted elements all up and
> down the periodic table.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:44 PM, David Roberson  wrote:
>
>> Does anyone understand what happens to one of these fractional Rydberg
>> hydrogen atoms once it is released into the atmosphere?  Does it gain
>> energy from the air and become standard hydrogen?  I am just curious?
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>   -----Original Message-
>> From: Roarty, Francis X 
>> To: vortex-l 
>> Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2011 1:41 pm
>> Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as
>> fractional Rydberg
>>
>>  That is exactly what I was saying…  Now that Mills admits the “hydrino”
>> is actually fractiona Rydberg hydrogen the term hydrino not only becomes
>> redundant but also carries all the baggage of his previously wrong
>> definition that caused so much controversy. The term should be eradicated
>> with extreme predjudice.
>>
>>  *From:* Danny Ross Lunsford 
>> [mailto:antimatte...@yahoo.com]
>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2011 1:28 PM
>> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
>> *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as
>> fractional Rydberg
>>
>>   You can forget the hydrino. It does no good to adhere to bad ideas.
>> Angular momentum conservation prevents it. We need to use good physics to
>> get to the bottom of this phenomenon, and ruthlessly eliminate the bad
>> ideas.
>>
>> *--
>> "I write a little. I erase a lot." *- Chopin
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On *Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X *wrote:
>>
>>   A recent  paper “Time-resolved hydrino continuum transitions with
>> cutoffs at 22.8 nm and 10.1 nm”
>> http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf...<http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf>
>>
>>
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[Roarty, Francis X]

The appropriate term is Inverse Rydberg  states but “fractional Rydberg”states  
is the term Mills and Lu used to describe the hydrino in their paper
http://www.blacklightpower.com/papers/Time-resolved%20paper.pdf
from the introduction [snip] The product is H(1/P), fractional Rydberg states 
of atomic hydrogen called “hydrino atoms”,[/snip]
It is unwise to discount chemistry as the bootstrap stage powering the nuclear 
reaction. From day 1 with the atomic welder it was clear something odd happens 
when hydrogen is disassociated by an arc between tungsten catalysts and then 
re-associates to weld [melt] metals all the way up to tungsten. Just because 
there is transmutation doesn’t mean that is the sole source of energy or that 
it is even the initial source of heat. There is not enough lead shielding for 
fusion to be occurring at a level that would explain the output of an e-cat. 
Other more exotic  nuclear paths would be necessary to accomplish the task with 
the sort of shielding Rossi used and I am saying we already know there is 
something special about atomic hydrogen from it’s welding abilities.. heating 
it in a catalyst is a way to lower the energy needed to disassociate it into 
atomic form

From: Danny Ross Lunsford [mailto:antimatte...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 1:47 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as 
fractional Rydberg

Fractional Rydberg? That's nonsense too - this isn't chemistry, it's not 
electrons. It's nucleons. The key point is that nickel 62 is at the peak of the 
binding-energy-per-nucleon curve. Somehow I think a circular reaction is going 
on around the peak - call it "fussion".

--
"I write a little. I erase a lot." - Chopin



--- On Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X  wrote:

From: Roarty, Francis X 
Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as 
fractional Rydberg
To: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" 
Date: Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 12:40 PM

That is exactly what I was saying…  Now that Mills admits the “hydrino” is 
actually fractiona Rydberg hydrogen the term hydrino not only becomes redundant 
but also carries all the baggage of his previously wrong definition that caused 
so much controversy. The term should be eradicated with extreme predjudice.



From: Danny Ross Lunsford [mailto:antimatte...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 1:28 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional 
Rydberg



You can forget the hydrino. It does no good to adhere to bad ideas. Angular 
momentum conservation prevents it. We need to use good physics to get to the 
bottom of this phenomenon, and ruthlessly eliminate the bad ideas.

--
"I write a little. I erase a lot." - Chopin



--- On Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X  wrote:



A recent  paper “Time-resolved hydrino continuum transitions with cutoffs at 
22.8 nm and 10.1 nm” 
http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf...<http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf>

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[Axil Axil]

I will remind the theorists among us again that Rossi states in his patent
that copper can be used as a micro powder material as an alternative to
nickel. This implies that the physical and/or chemical properties of Nickel
are not critical to the Rossi reaction.

Rossi has surveyed many other transition metals to support his reaction. He
found that nickel performed the best but conversely the other transition
metals work almost as well.


Nano-engineering is all important in the Rossi process. This indicates to
me that the nuclear and/or chemical properties of the micro-metal are not
as important as the nano surface preparation of the micro-powder.

In simple terms in my opinion, the topology of the nano-structures is what
makes the Rossi reaction go. Rossi calls this topology "tubules" and spent
six months working day and night to optimize this surface structure.

The changing work functions of the varied polycrystalline structures of
these tubules will break apart H2 into H.  Somehow inverse Rydberg matter
may be formed between and among these tubules with the help of the high
pressure and temperature of the hydrogen envelop and the mediating action
of an alkaline catalyst.

When all those electrons and protons that comprise a inverse Rydberg
molecule are packed into the very small space between these surface
tubules, this set of subatomic particles gain a lot of energy… maybe from
Zero Point Energy…or just from the uncertainty principle.

Dr. George Miley shows in his experiments and also in the Rossi ash, what
comes out of this process is a zoo of other transmuted elements all up and
down the periodic table.


On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:44 PM, David Roberson  wrote:

> Does anyone understand what happens to one of these fractional Rydberg
> hydrogen atoms once it is released into the atmosphere?  Does it gain
> energy from the air and become standard hydrogen?  I am just curious?
>
> Dave
>
>
>   -Original Message-
> From: Roarty, Francis X 
> To: vortex-l 
> Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2011 1:41 pm
> Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as
> fractional Rydberg
>
>  That is exactly what I was saying…  Now that Mills admits the “hydrino”
> is actually fractiona Rydberg hydrogen the term hydrino not only becomes
> redundant but also carries all the baggage of his previously wrong
> definition that caused so much controversy. The term should be eradicated
> with extreme predjudice.
>
>  *From:* Danny Ross Lunsford 
> [mailto:antimatte...@yahoo.com]
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2011 1:28 PM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as
> fractional Rydberg
>
>   You can forget the hydrino. It does no good to adhere to bad ideas.
> Angular momentum conservation prevents it. We need to use good physics to
> get to the bottom of this phenomenon, and ruthlessly eliminate the bad
> ideas.
>
> *--
> "I write a little. I erase a lot." *- Chopin
>
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X *wrote:
>
>   A recent  paper “Time-resolved hydrino continuum transitions with
> cutoffs at 22.8 nm and 10.1 nm”
> http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf...<http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf>
>
>

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[P.J van Noorden]

Hello Fran,

I don`t understand your statement: Now that Mills admits the “hydrino” is 
actually fractiona Rydberg hydrogen the term hydrino not only becomes redundant 
but also carries all the baggage of his previously wrong definition that caused 
so much controversy.
I thought Mills has always said that the hydrino = hydrogen in a fractional 
quantum state. 

BTW the continuum spectrum in discharges of H2 gas is 100% reproducible and has 
no known explanation.

Peter van Noorden
  - Original Message - 
  From: Roarty, Francis X 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 6:40 PM
  Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as 
fractional Rydberg


  That is exactly what I was saying…  Now that Mills admits the “hydrino” is 
actually fractiona Rydberg hydrogen the term hydrino not only becomes redundant 
but also carries all the baggage of his previously wrong definition that caused 
so much controversy. The term should be eradicated with extreme predjudice.

   

  From: Danny Ross Lunsford [mailto:antimatte...@yahoo.com] 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 1:28 PM
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
  Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional 
Rydberg

   

You can forget the hydrino. It does no good to adhere to bad ideas. 
Angular momentum conservation prevents it. We need to use good physics to get 
to the bottom of this phenomenon, and ruthlessly eliminate the bad ideas.

--
"I write a little. I erase a lot." - Chopin



--- On Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X  
wrote:

 

A recent  paper “Time-resolved hydrino continuum transitions with 
cutoffs at 22.8 nm and 10.1 nm” 
http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf...
   

   

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[Danny Ross Lunsford]

Fractional Rydberg? That's nonsense too - this isn't chemistry, it's not 
electrons. It's nucleons. The key point is that nickel 62 is at the peak of the 
binding-energy-per-nucleon curve. Somehow I think a circular reaction is going 
on around the peak - call it "fussion".

--
"I write a little. I erase a lot." - Chopin



--- On Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X  wrote:

From: Roarty, Francis X 
Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as 
fractional Rydberg
To: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" 
Date: Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 12:40 PM

That is exactly what I was saying…  Now that Mills admits the “hydrino” is 
actually fractiona Rydberg hydrogen the term hydrino not only becomes redundant 
but also carries all the baggage of his previously wrong definition that caused 
so much controversy. The term should be eradicated with extreme predjudice.  
From: Danny Ross Lunsford [mailto:antimatte...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 1:28 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional 
Rydberg  You can forget the hydrino. It does no good to adhere to bad ideas. 
Angular momentum conservation prevents it. We need to use good physics to get 
to the bottom of this phenomenon, and ruthlessly eliminate the bad ideas.

--
"I write a little. I erase a lot." - Chopin



--- On Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X  wrote:  A 
recent  paper “Time-resolved hydrino continuum transitions with cutoffs at 22.8 
nm and 10.1 nm” 
http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf...  

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[David Roberson]

Does anyone understand what happens to one of these fractional Rydberg hydrogen 
atoms once it is released into the atmosphere?  Does it gain energy from the 
air and become standard hydrogen?  I am just curious?

Dave



-Original Message-
From: Roarty, Francis X 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2011 1:41 pm
Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as 
fractional Rydberg



That is exactly what I was saying…  Now that Mills admits the “hydrino” is 
actually fractiona Rydberg hydrogen the term hydrino not only becomes redundant 
but also carries all the baggage of his previously wrong definition that caused 
so much controversy. The term should be eradicated with extreme predjudice.
 

From: Danny Ross Lunsford [mailto:antimatte...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 1:28 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional 
Rydberg

 


You can forget the hydrino. It does no good to adhere to bad ideas. Angular 
momentum conservation prevents it. We need to use good physics to get to the 
bottom of this phenomenon, and ruthlessly eliminate the bad ideas.

--
"I write a little. I erase a lot." - Chopin



--- On Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X  wrote:
 


A recent  paper “Time-resolved hydrino continuum transitions with cutoffs at 
22.8 nm and 10.1 nm” 
http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf...




 

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[Roarty, Francis X]

That is exactly what I was saying…  Now that Mills admits the “hydrino” is 
actually fractiona Rydberg hydrogen the term hydrino not only becomes redundant 
but also carries all the baggage of his previously wrong definition that caused 
so much controversy. The term should be eradicated with extreme predjudice.

From: Danny Ross Lunsford [mailto:antimatte...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 1:28 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional 
Rydberg

You can forget the hydrino. It does no good to adhere to bad ideas. Angular 
momentum conservation prevents it. We need to use good physics to get to the 
bottom of this phenomenon, and ruthlessly eliminate the bad ideas.

--
"I write a little. I erase a lot." - Chopin



--- On Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X  wrote:


A recent  paper “Time-resolved hydrino continuum transitions with cutoffs at 
22.8 nm and 10.1 nm” 
http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf...<http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf>

Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[Danny Ross Lunsford]

You can forget the hydrino. It does no good to adhere to bad ideas. Angular 
momentum conservation prevents it. We need to use good physics to get to the 
bottom of this phenomenon, and ruthlessly eliminate the bad ideas.

--
"I write a little. I erase a lot." - Chopin



--- On Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X  wrote:

A recent  paper “Time-resolved hydrino continuum transitions with cutoffs at 
22.8 nm and 10.1 nm” 
http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf... 

[Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg

[Roarty, Francis X]

A recent  paper "Time-resolved hydrino continuum transitions with cutoffs at 
22.8 nm and 10.1 nm" 
http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf
by R.L. Mills and Y. Lu  published in The European Physical Journal D - Atomic, 
Molecular, Optical and Plasma 
Physics now defines the hydrino 
in the same terms of fractional Rydberg atoms that other researchers have 
postulated for years. Previously Mr Mill's has cautioned others not to use his 
"hydrino" label in referring to their own research or theories because it was 
somehow different from fractional hydrogen, inverse Rydberg matter, condensed 
hydrogen or other such terms. Now the tables are turned and perhaps we should 
extract the same penalty and demand Mill's abandon the term hydrino since 
inverse Rydberg hydrogen is already a known entity. I predict Mill's papers 
will soon embrace the work of Jan Naudts that the hydrino or inverse Rydberg 
state of hydrogen is actually relativistic.  Mills has previously compared the 
hydrino to  hydrogen ejected from the suns corona at fractions of C  but this 
may have been very misleading. IMHO hydrogen accelerated to fractions of C 
experiences time dilation like the accelerated twin paradox and "ages" very 
SLOWLY relative to us on earth while hydrogen in Mill's Rayney nickel would 
need to "age" very RAPIDLY. This would require us outside the Mill's reactor to 
appear equivalently accelerated to fractions of C from the perspective of the 
fractional Rydberg hydrogen in the reactor.  Since we on earth can be 
considered stationary on a luminal scale of velocity then it remains that the 
fractional hydrogen inside the reactor must experience  EQUIVALENT  NEGATIVE 
acceleration.  This is opposite to normal time dilation. Casimir theory states 
vacuum energy density is reduced between the Casimir geometry of skeletal 
catalysts or the voids formed between Ni nano powders. This reduced density 
phenomena only occurs at the nano scale as opposed to increased density which 
requires an object to approach fractional values of C or equivalent 
acceleration due to gravity on the scale of a black hole. The Casimir effect 
manipulates energy density via  suppression of longer vacumm energy wavelengths 
[larger virtual particles can't fit between plates]. This does not require 
exponentially higher energy to achieve velocities approaching C but depends 
instead on physical properties of conductive material in specific geometries.
It directly modifies the energy density independent of any velocity.
The  time delays for Plasma spectrum in Mill's paper also lend  
support to  Jan Naudt's proposal of a relativistic interpretation of the 
hydrino.  If truly relativistic then the fractional hydrogen and the spectrum 
they emit locally when reacting with other local fractional hydrogen may be 
effected by time dilation -  Like the Twins paradox a local observer always 
experiences normal time flow,  It is only when the twins meet in a common 
inertial frame that the effects of time dilation become apparent and likewise 
it is only when the spectra emitted by the fractional hydrogen propagate out of 
the skeletal catalyst that changes due to dilation can be measured.  One might 
assume that this effect would simply return the spectrum to normal condition 
but claims regarding this Black Light plasma seem to indicate a relationship 
between changes in bond state where fractional hydrogen is both disassociated 
and then re-associated. IMHO there is difference between accomplishing 
fractional Rydberg state changes between  fractional atomic hydrogen vs 
fractional molecular hydrogen  where molecular hydrogen opposes fractional 
changes more than atomic hydrogen and leads to a skewing of the spectrum 
propagation when molecular bonds hold H2 in fractional states at odds with the 
local energy density.
Regards
Fran