Re: [Vo]:On Widow Larsen theory, need vulgarization, and critic
In reply to Alain Sepeda's message of Fri, 6 Jan 2012 16:54:31 +0100: Hi, [snip] >thus the mass is simply caused by all the lattice/wave around, slowing the >electrons when it tries to move... Personally, I can't see this contributing to it's ability to form a neutron, however it might solve a different problem entirely. The dog and tail problem with IRH. If electron movement is severely restricted, then it becomes more reasonable to consider that a proton might be able to orbit such a restricted movement electron, resulting in IRH. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:On Widow Larsen theory, need vulgarization, and critic
my question was to check if the self energy is a mass weighting the energy of the interaction of the particle with the around, like we find that nucleons are more heavy inside a nucleus than alone, free... like also Z/W bosons get heavy because they interact with Higgs bosons... so unlike effective mass of charges inside a semiconductor, which simply take into account the "lasyness" of the particle to move, self energy is a real mass, caused by interaction with the around, which is real energy, thus mass? am I wrong (it is basic QP I suppose, but I'm just below this level) so the heavy electrons are in fact really heavy pseudoparticle. pseudo because they are bound to a lattice, and probably tied with SPP? is this like nucleons are tied inside a nucleus, by strong force? this is the secret? when one of that electrons should move because of a force/field, it move slowly because first when moving he always exchange bosons with neighbours, which slow him. also because the energy have a weight? (or is it the same fact, self interaction slow by interaction, which is same a weight) 2012/1/6 Daniel Rocha > The difference is not subtle, but it's the fault WL papers are not clear > because they are dealing simultaneously with different subjects where the > term "mass" has different meanings. I only realized that when I read a > comment by another critic. > > But I didn't understand your question... > > > 2012/1/6 Alain Sepeda > >> thanks, >> difference is subtle, and on wikipedia they even say that self-energy >> include effective mass... >> it is the same mass as the some heavy particle have because of Higgs >> Boson, or the one nucleus have different from their nucleons members. right? >> >> >> >> 2012/1/6 Daniel Rocha >> >>> That heavy mass electron in WL refers to its self-energy: >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-energy >>> >>> Not to the mass in relation to the conduction band: >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_mass_(solid-state_physics) >>> >> >> > > > -- > Daniel Rocha - RJ > danieldi...@gmail.com > >
Re: [Vo]:On Widow Larsen theory, need vulgarization, and critic
The difference is not subtle, but it's the fault WL papers are not clear because they are dealing simultaneously with different subjects where the term "mass" has different meanings. I only realized that when I read a comment by another critic. But I didn't understand your question... 2012/1/6 Alain Sepeda > thanks, > difference is subtle, and on wikipedia they even say that self-energy > include effective mass... > it is the same mass as the some heavy particle have because of Higgs > Boson, or the one nucleus have different from their nucleons members. right? > > > > 2012/1/6 Daniel Rocha > >> That heavy mass electron in WL refers to its self-energy: >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-energy >> >> Not to the mass in relation to the conduction band: >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_mass_(solid-state_physics) >> > > -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:On Widow Larsen theory, need vulgarization, and critic
thanks, difference is subtle, and on wikipedia they even say that self-energy include effective mass... it is the same mass as the some heavy particle have because of Higgs Boson, or the one nucleus have different from their nucleons members. right? 2012/1/6 Daniel Rocha > That heavy mass electron in WL refers to its self-energy: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-energy > > Not to the mass in relation to the conduction band: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_mass_(solid-state_physics) >
Re: [Vo]:On Widow Larsen theory, need vulgarization, and critic
That heavy mass electron in WL refers to its self-energy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-energy Not to the mass in relation to the conduction band: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_mass_(solid-state_physics) 2012/1/6 Alain Sepeda > Hi, > > I'm looking at W/L theory. > To be honest, the first comments I've read make me think about crackpot > language, but it seems to be simple jargon. > > I resume my opinion, asking for better explanation and eventual critics. > note that I have basic level in QP (and classic physic) because of basic > university education in the old time and long curiosity through magazine. > > W/L theory start with the presence of an heavy electron, (will discuss > it's creation, the most mysterious) > this heavy, thus slow, thus large electron (thanks Heisenberg inequality) > interact with proton, to make a neutron (and a neutrino)... > then the neutron, which is slow, thus large, interact with nucleus, and > trigger a chain of classic disintegration (beta, alpha). > the only surprise seems to be the lack of hard gamma, that you could > expect, but the heavy/large electrons might interact with the gamma... > > for the creation of heavy electrons, it seems it is the effective mass > that is refered like here: > http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/PR_display.asp?prID=1130 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_electron > thus the mass is simply caused by all the lattice/wave around, slowing the > electrons when it tries to move... > quite classic if you practice semiconductors physic > (no link to relativistic mass?) > > W/L theory says they are heavy because interacting with SPP : surface > plasmon polariton : > see > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasmon > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polariton > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_plasmon_polaritons > note that in French the equivalents article are more rich, IMO. > they talk clearly of the quantum states of those pseudo particle like > oscillators coupling, with stable modes who are eigenvalue, thus states of > particle. > > SPP, plasmon and polariton are thus simply quantum state of collective > behavior of electrons at a surface, and photons... > quite classic if you understands phonon ans evanescent waves ( > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evanescent_waves) > > the cause of the heavy electrons seems cause by huge electric fields, but > from where ? > from SPP ? from group behavior of electrons ? from electrons Bose-Einstein > condensate ? from heat ? > > from heat, creating SPP, creating collective Bose-Einstein condensate, > creating collective behavior? > > some talk about resonance, what is it concretely in QP? a kind of > constructive interference ? > > some talk also about the breaking of the Born-Oppenheimer approximation, > which is well explained > in Wikipedia > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born-Oppenheimer_approximation > (once again the French version is simpler to understand) > this approximation is based on the assumption that the mass of the nucleus > is so huge that you can neglect the move of the nucleus, because of the > electron. > so you compute first the energy states of the electrons, depending on > nucleus distance. > then you compute the energy state of the nucleus pair, using the potential > energy of electrons computed earlier. > > so W/L theory says that in some case, you cannot neglect the move of the > nucleus (proton here) because of the electrons. > > I need some explanation about that... > > also there is some mystery that I understand even less. > > when the electron react with proton, it seems that the reaction is > endothermic. > where does the energy came from ? from SPP ? from collective behavior ? > from electric field? > > after that, what is the exact explanation why gamma should be absorbed by > the heavy electrons ? > or is simply the gamma suppressed because of some quantum branching > preference ? > > thanks in advance for clarification... > don't forget also to raise the key problems, and vulgarize them . > > > > > > > > > -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
[Vo]:On Widow Larsen theory, need vulgarization, and critic
Hi, I'm looking at W/L theory. To be honest, the first comments I've read make me think about crackpot language, but it seems to be simple jargon. I resume my opinion, asking for better explanation and eventual critics. note that I have basic level in QP (and classic physic) because of basic university education in the old time and long curiosity through magazine. W/L theory start with the presence of an heavy electron, (will discuss it's creation, the most mysterious) this heavy, thus slow, thus large electron (thanks Heisenberg inequality) interact with proton, to make a neutron (and a neutrino)... then the neutron, which is slow, thus large, interact with nucleus, and trigger a chain of classic disintegration (beta, alpha). the only surprise seems to be the lack of hard gamma, that you could expect, but the heavy/large electrons might interact with the gamma... for the creation of heavy electrons, it seems it is the effective mass that is refered like here: http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/PR_display.asp?prID=1130 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_electron thus the mass is simply caused by all the lattice/wave around, slowing the electrons when it tries to move... quite classic if you practice semiconductors physic (no link to relativistic mass?) W/L theory says they are heavy because interacting with SPP : surface plasmon polariton : see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasmon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polariton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_plasmon_polaritons note that in French the equivalents article are more rich, IMO. they talk clearly of the quantum states of those pseudo particle like oscillators coupling, with stable modes who are eigenvalue, thus states of particle. SPP, plasmon and polariton are thus simply quantum state of collective behavior of electrons at a surface, and photons... quite classic if you understands phonon ans evanescent waves ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evanescent_waves) the cause of the heavy electrons seems cause by huge electric fields, but from where ? from SPP ? from group behavior of electrons ? from electrons Bose-Einstein condensate ? from heat ? from heat, creating SPP, creating collective Bose-Einstein condensate, creating collective behavior? some talk about resonance, what is it concretely in QP? a kind of constructive interference ? some talk also about the breaking of the Born-Oppenheimer approximation, which is well explained in Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born-Oppenheimer_approximation (once again the French version is simpler to understand) this approximation is based on the assumption that the mass of the nucleus is so huge that you can neglect the move of the nucleus, because of the electron. so you compute first the energy states of the electrons, depending on nucleus distance. then you compute the energy state of the nucleus pair, using the potential energy of electrons computed earlier. so W/L theory says that in some case, you cannot neglect the move of the nucleus (proton here) because of the electrons. I need some explanation about that... also there is some mystery that I understand even less. when the electron react with proton, it seems that the reaction is endothermic. where does the energy came from ? from SPP ? from collective behavior ? from electric field? after that, what is the exact explanation why gamma should be absorbed by the heavy electrons ? or is simply the gamma suppressed because of some quantum branching preference ? thanks in advance for clarification... don't forget also to raise the key problems, and vulgarize them .
