Re: Hydrino - orgone again :(
Robin wrote. In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Sun, 21 May 2006 08:50:42 -0600: Hi Fred, Cheer up, Robin. ElectrOpium to the rescue. :-) I thought that in the real world, they had already determined that ElectrOpium only had a lifetime of nanoseconds? They have only detected the radiation from those that annihilate or the radiation could be from the settling in binding energy of the (*e-) mass 2 to 2.7 electron mass particle which is a bit tricky to detect. Both Allen Mills of UCR and the researchers at Max Planck institute (and others) have been informed of this possibility. No adverse responses there.Hence the jury is still out until Ps- experiments are refined for (*e-) detection. Fred. Snip [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
Hydrino - orgone again
Hi, According to Mills, the ionization energy of H[n=1/23] is 19.26 eV. For H[n=1/24] this is only 0.6945 eV, and for H[n=1/25] there is no longer a hydride possible. Now suppose that as Jones has suggested, hydrinos shrink in the Solar atmosphere over geologic time, and get carried to the Earth on the Solar wind. hydrinohydride being a negative ion might be loosely attached to the positive end of a polar water molecule high in the atmosphere, and come down as rain water. Because the ionization energy of H[n=1/24] is less than that of water, it could be electrolyzed at a lower voltage than water, and hence extracted as pure H[n=1/24], without any other hydrinos (or even H2 or O2) being mixed in (hence the claims that this is not electrolysis). Also, because of the low ionization energy it would probably pass easily through metals, picking up and losing an electron continually, just as happens to metal atoms themselves. However because it is extremely small, it could easily wander through the interstitial spaces in a metal lattice during the moments that it is in its neutral state. Even hydrogen atoms can manage this with some metals, and H[n=1/24]hydride is both smaller and more easily ionized than H. Once H[n=1/24] ends up in a car engine, and comes in contact with either Ar+ or O++ in the plasma created by the spark, it can be catalyzed to H[n=1/25] or H[n=1/26] releasing 8485 eV or 9178 eV respectively during the very first shrinkage reaction. The released energy serves to ionize more Ar and O creating more catalyst ions, further catalyzing shrinkage. Because the electrolysis process actually absorbs energy with little or no hydrino shrinkage taking place, energy is not liberated in the electrolysis cell at all, and the soft vacuum causes it to cool. These well shrunken hydrinos don't last long in the environment, and so are best harvested directly from a rain storm during and shortly after the Solar wind from Solar flares or CMEs has impinged on the Earth's atmosphere. (Hence the various anecdotal claims that it's the water that matters). This also explains the source of purported excess power reported by the Graneau's. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
RE: Hydrino - orgone again
Get the same results with Ubiquitous Electronium (mass 2x Electron) (*e-) especially in Argon-40 and rainwater, Robin. :-) Fred [Original Message] From: Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: 5/21/2006 12:55:15 AM Subject: Hydrino - orgone again Hi, According to Mills, the ionization energy of H[n=1/23] is 19.26 eV. For H[n=1/24] this is only 0.6945 eV, and for H[n=1/25] there is no longer a hydride possible. Now suppose that as Jones has suggested, hydrinos shrink in the Solar atmosphere over geologic time, and get carried to the Earth on the Solar wind. hydrinohydride being a negative ion might be loosely attached to the positive end of a polar water molecule high in the atmosphere, and come down as rain water. Because the ionization energy of H[n=1/24] is less than that of water, it could be electrolyzed at a lower voltage than water, and hence extracted as pure H[n=1/24], without any other hydrinos (or even H2 or O2) being mixed in (hence the claims that this is not electrolysis). Also, because of the low ionization energy it would probably pass easily through metals, picking up and losing an electron continually, just as happens to metal atoms themselves. However because it is extremely small, it could easily wander through the interstitial spaces in a metal lattice during the moments that it is in its neutral state. Even hydrogen atoms can manage this with some metals, and H[n=1/24]hydride is both smaller and more easily ionized than H. Once H[n=1/24] ends up in a car engine, and comes in contact with either Ar+ or O++ in the plasma created by the spark, it can be catalyzed to H[n=1/25] or H[n=1/26] releasing 8485 eV or 9178 eV respectively during the very first shrinkage reaction. The released energy serves to ionize more Ar and O creating more catalyst ions, further catalyzing shrinkage. Because the electrolysis process actually absorbs energy with little or no hydrino shrinkage taking place, energy is not liberated in the electrolysis cell at all, and the soft vacuum causes it to cool. These well shrunken hydrinos don't last long in the environment, and so are best harvested directly from a rain storm during and shortly after the Solar wind from Solar flares or CMEs has impinged on the Earth's atmosphere. (Hence the various anecdotal claims that it's the water that matters). This also explains the source of purported excess power reported by the Graneau's. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
Hydrino - orgone again :(
Hi, Oops! - H[n=1/24]hydride is an even better alkali metal than the real alkali metals, so it isn't just going to sit quietly in a water molecule, it's going to reduce the hydrogen, and very quickly at that! Consequently, this whole scenario doesn't work. To compound the error, the energies I calculated were total shrinkage energies, not just for the next step. They should have been 666 eV for Ar+ and 1360 eV for O++. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
Re: Hydrino - orgone - or Special-K?
Robin They should have been 666 eV for Ar+ and 1360 eV for O++. These energies are in the range seen in efficient radiation but the total fit into the Chandra data - is better for an Auger Cascade involving C/O/Fe atoms, wherein there are known steps of radiation, and at definite ratios coming from the primary heavy elements which we know to be in comets. In trying to tailor the earthbound scenario into Mill's CQM methodology of further shrinkage, and ignoring the possibility that the energy is really coming from ZPE via the hydrino (as an *inactive* intermediary, or agent), one can avoid the negative baggage of ZPE... and Puthoff's work ... which Mills' has admitted to dislike. But Mills stubbornness may lead down the path which is not the one where the (minuscule amount of good) evidence is now pointing us. He has chosen the all-or-none route. However, the alternative viewpoint becomes this bastard, anti-Ockham jump - which suggests that neither of these two controversial theorists is fully correct, but neither are incorrect either, and Mill's got the hydrino part right and Puthoff got the ZPE-electron-orbital part correct, and that the two explanations (as disparate and anti-mainstream as they may sound at first) are a match made in ... well, if not in heaven, then at least in the Valis supercomputer g. It is two bad that these two modern day geniuses, Mills and Puthoff, absolutely detest each other's work, theory and logic - as the best answer to solving the riddle, may lie in an amalgamation of the two theories (with a little help from their friends). I take it from your past posts, Robin, that you also lean heavily against Puthoff and ZPE... and in truth, it is difficult to make that necessary leap of combining two controversial layers (of unproven assumptions) in a situation where either one gets its full share of scorn from the mainstream. OTOH, the contrarian might say that in this case, the more scorn the better, as the mainstream has totally ignored two half-truths, despite the evidence... and (very rarely) it is only in combining half-truths that leads us down the true path (not to get too Taoistic). It seems to me that to make the earthbound OU process viable, wherein the hydrino is potentially a player (and given that there is such a primordial population of solar-derived hydrinos) we need to be dealing with only those hydrinos near the maximum enthalpy, maximum inertness, and maximum compatibility with the host. In the case of heavy-Argon - as a host - this must mean that the IP of the hydrinohydride matches the IP of a k-shell electron which it is to replace. When in the comet, where there is little Argon, this hydrino species may be in a transitory fit where it is not in resonance, whereas when it reaches the oceans of earth, and encounters the potassium molecule, it finds such a resonance and home. The result: Special-K an ersatz heavy-Argon, of apparent molecular weight of just over 40 (two extra electrons in total but the outer shell still has the normal 8). Jones
RE: Hydrino - orgone again :(
Cheer up, Robin. ElectrOpium to the rescue. :-) (*e-) mass = 2* 9.1e-31 kg First orbit (v = c/137) R = 0.5 * 5.29e-11 1st = -27.2 eV 2nd = - 109 eV 3rd = -245 eV 4th = -436 eV 5th = -681 eV 6th = -981 eV 7th = -1335 eV 8th = -1744 eV 9th = - 2207 eV 10th = - 2725 eV naturally 100th = - 272,575 eV super-naturally or poppycock? Fred Robin wrote: Hi, Oops! - H[n=1/24]hydride is an even better alkali metal than the real alkali metals, so it isn't just going to sit quietly in a water molecule, it's going to reduce the hydrogen, and very quickly at that! Consequently, this whole scenario doesn't work. To compound the error, the energies I calculated were total shrinkage energies, not just for the next step. They should have been 666 eV for Ar+ and 1360 eV for O++. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
RE: Hydrino - orgone again :(
ElectrOpium to the rescue. :-) Or as they would say down Texas way: ElectRopium to the rescue. Right Richard? 137th = 1737^2 * 27.2 = - 0.511 MeV too. [Original Message] From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: 5/21/2006 8:51:45 AM Subject: RE: Hydrino - orgone again :( Cheer up, Robin. ElectrOpium to the rescue. :-) (*e-) mass = 2* 9.1e-31 kg First orbit (v = c/137) R = 0.5 * 5.29e-11 1st = -27.2 eV 2nd = - 109 eV 3rd = -245 eV 4th = -436 eV 5th = -681 eV 6th = -981 eV 7th = -1335 eV 8th = -1744 eV 9th = - 2207 eV 10th = - 2725 eV naturally 100th = - 272,575 eV super-naturally or poppycock? Fred Robin wrote: Hi, Oops! - H[n=1/24]hydride is an even better alkali metal than the real alkali metals, so it isn't just going to sit quietly in a water molecule, it's going to reduce the hydrogen, and very quickly at that! Consequently, this whole scenario doesn't work. To compound the error, the energies I calculated were total shrinkage energies, not just for the next step. They should have been 666 eV for Ar+ and 1360 eV for O++. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
RE: Hydrino - orgone again :(
Relativistic Effects: Relativistic Gamma = E(kin)/Eo + 1 = 1/[1- (v^2/c^2)]^1/2 At 137th, 137^2 * 27.2 = .511 MeV Gamma = [.511E6/1.0E6] + 1 = 1.5 At 100th (-272,575 eV) Gamma = [272,575/1.0E6] + 1 = 1.2725 At 24th Fractional Orbit Gamma = [69,696/1.0E6] + 1 = 1.0697 About Maximum? (*e-) mass = 2* 9.1e-31 kg First orbit (v = c/137) R = 0.5 * 5.29e-11 1st = -27.2 eV 2nd = - 109 eV 3rd = -245 eV 4th = -436 eV 5th = -681 eV 6th = -981 eV 7th = -1335 eV 8th = -1744 eV 9th = - 2207 eV 10th = - 2725 eV naturally 100th = - 272,575 eV super-naturally or poppycock?
Re: Hydrino - orgone again :(
In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Sun, 21 May 2006 08:50:42 -0600: Hi Fred, Cheer up, Robin. ElectrOpium to the rescue. :-) I thought that in the real world, they had already determined that ElectrOpium only had a lifetime of nanoseconds? [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
Re: Hydrino - orgone - or Special-K?
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sun, 21 May 2006 07:27:19 -0700: Hi, [snip] I take it from your past posts, Robin, that you also lean heavily against Puthoff and ZPE... No, I think that is a too negative representation. I'm looking for something that is both self consistent, and consistent with observed phenomena. I can't yet say that I have found it in anyone's theory (including my own). :( One of my main complaints about Hal's theory is, as I said to him years ago, that if the Universe is full of energetic photons up to 1E43 Hz, then why aren't at least half of all atoms constantly ionized? (Most of the energy resides in the high end photons, so the average is way higher than the energy required to ionize an atom). It's as though the photons don't act like normal photons. Which is what led me to ask him if they could be standing (stationary if you prefer) waves ( a la Beardon). He replied at the time that the equations would all be the same if they were. (Beardon talks about pairs of waves going in opposite directions, which IMO is the same thing as stationary waves). BTW Ross Tessien also seems to be into stationary waves (or was at one time anyway). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
Re: Hydrino orgone
Water powered cars/ inventors.Andriah Puharich Archie blue Bob Boyce Carl Cella Charles H. Garrett Daniel Dingel Hector Pierre Vaes Nakamatsu Yoshiro Sam Leslie Leach Stanley Meyer Steven Horvarth The Joe Cell. - Original Message - From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 5/2/2006 7:38:05 PM Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone If the "tail wags the dog" concept of the motion of the electron cloud causing the atoms-molecules to erratically move about (which apparently is the foundation of Avogadro's Law) holds,and add that to the concept of low pressure of a soft vacuum allowing atoms-molecules to literally expand as in the Joe Cell. one might conclude that a water "Vacuum Expander" tank would replace the Joe Cell. A pool of water inaused refrigerant or propane tank with a hose to the intake manifold with some gas from a small propane torch (or ether spray) let into the air intake for a "Pilot Fuel". In the cylinder the atoms-molecules shrink normal size, giving off energy. Fred
Re: Hydrino orgone
A bit of a problem mit der joe cell? :-) http://www.sdsefi.com/techtheo.htm "The '70s saw the introduction of the excellent L Jetronic system and licensed spinoffs built in other countries. Emission regulations and the energy crisis in the mid '70s caused most car manufacturers to consider the switch to EFI. Nissan, Toyota and BMW notably equipped almost all of their higher end models with the Bosch system by 1982. Many German and American car companies were slow to embrace EFI for reasons unknown. By 1985, the first digital systems were in widespread use worldwide by most manufacturers to some degree and the days of the carburetor were numbered. Today, over 95% of all cars produced are EFI equipped. EFI is certainly not new, as its roots were firmly established over 30 years ago." Basic Theory "EFI uses solenoid valves called injectors to meter fuel delivery. Most vehicles today use 1 injector per cylinder. When the solenoid is energized, fuel sprays out into the valve port. Fuel is delivered to the injector by a high pressure electric pump at around 40 psi. Fuel delivery is controlled by the injectors which are cycled by the computer. The computer produces a signal to open the injectors for a certain length of time depending on engine conditions relayed by sensors. The longer that the injector is open, the more fuel is injected. As engine load and rpm are increased, the injector open times are increased to match increasing airflow. This computer output signal is called the injector pulse width. The longer the pulse width, the more fuel is injected." - Original Message - From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 5/1/2006 7:45:39 PM Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone Posted earlier: IOW. The "Joe Cell" may turn out to be a Red Herring. I meant it may not need to produce O, OH, and H, H2 or H3O, but, the electrolysis heat from the battery may provide the heat for vaporizing the water, SATURATED STEAM TABLE CALCULATOR: (and more) http://www.connel.com/cgi-bin/steam.pl Why rack your brain? :-) Fred - Original Message - From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 5/1/2006 6:19:57 PM Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone Let's find out if nature's thermodynamics allows an engine to run on damp air created by using the evaporative cooling effect (Venturi aspiration on water) on the incoming air, and using the 4 cycle engine to optimize the INVERSION TEMPERATURE so that during the power stroke the EXPANDING GAS HEATS. IOW. The "Joe Cell" may turn out to be a Red Herring. USE THIS PSYCH CHART: http://www.linric.com/webpsysi.htm The Inversion Temperature: " the 'normal' effect of cooling when a gas expands takes place below that temperature, above that temperature it heats under expansion." Gas Inversion Temp Deg K Space 0-3 Helium 51 Hydrogen 205 -90.67 F Neon 242 Nitrogen 621 658.13 F Argon 723 841.73 F Krypton 727 Oxygen893 1147.73Xenon 1427 Zero Deg C = 273 Deg K Zero Deg F = 255 Deg K Conversion calculators. http://www.onlineconversion.com/temperature.htm Fred
Re: Hydrino orgone
Making a Mountain out of a Molehill? :-) http://www.tiscover.at/at/guide/50116at,en,SCH1/objectId,ACC296274at,curr,EUR,season,at1,selectedEntry,pict/pict.html "In a mountain scenery, yet close to the Wolfgangsee lake! The Kleefeld Alpine inn is at about 2.5 km from the Wolfgangsee lake at 700 m altitude. Amidst mountain peaks, Alpine pastures and forests, located on a south-facing sheltered from the wind, you can enjoy unspoilt nature. Hikes to the lakeside or along steep ways up to the Sparber mountain, it´s your choice! " Anybody feel like Yodeling. :-)
Re: Hydrino orgone
If the "tail wags the dog" concept of the motion of the electron cloud causing the atoms-molecules to erratically move about (which apparently is the foundation of Avogadro's Law) holds,and add that to the concept of low pressure of a soft vacuum allowing atoms-molecules to literally expand as in the Joe Cell. one might conclude that a water "Vacuum Expander" tank would replace the Joe Cell. A pool of water inaused refrigerant or propane tank with a hose to the intake manifold with some gas from a small propane torch (or ether spray) let into the air intake for a "Pilot Fuel". In the cylinder the atoms-molecules shrink normal size, giving off energy. Fred
Re: Hydrino orgone
Fluorescent lamps have an Argon fill pressure of ~ 3 to 5 Torr: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6683407-description.html If there are any low-pressure/vacuum-induced (Casimir-ZPE) heat effects, they should show up when a lamp is first lit. Charge a capacitor to a few KV and dump it into a fluorescent bulb blackened with spray paint, and placed inside a water-filled PVC pipe "calorimeter"? Hooked up as the negative resistance discharge load of a relaxation oscillator? Which way will the orgone flow? Fred
Re: Hydrino orgone
A standard 4 foot (122 cm long) T-12 1.5 inch (3.8 cm diameter) fluorescent bulb at5 Torr Argon pressure should contain ~ 2.46e20 Argon atoms. or ~0.025eV /atom with a 1.0 joule energy input. pulse. About the same eV/atom at 300 degrees Kambienttemperature. Sounds a bit like the PAGD doesn't it? There could be H2O vapor in the bulb already? - Original Message - From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 5/1/2006 2:24:41 AM Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone Fluorescent lamps have an Argon fill pressure of ~ 3 to 5 Torr: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6683407-description.html If there are any low-pressure/vacuum-induced (Casimir-ZPE) heat effects, they should show up when a lamp is first lit. Charge a capacitor to a few KV and dump it into a fluorescent bulb blackened with spray paint, and placed inside a water-filled PVC pipe "calorimeter"? Hooked up as the negative resistance discharge load of a relaxation oscillator? Which way will the orgone flow? Fred
Re: Hydrino orgone
Papp Engine vs PAGD: http://www.aetherometry.com/papp_engine.html "Both systems employ a sudden (and catastrophic) electric discharge. Papp followed the model of the internal combustion (IC) engine, with the high-pressure spark igniting the inert gas fuel. In the PAGD, the 'spark' consists of a diachronic cluster of auto-electronic emission sites that fail to sustain a vacuum-arc. The electric discharge is not accessory, as it is in the Papp technology; rather, it is constitutive of the technology by its physical characteristics, including the autogenous pulsation. It is, in fact, the method whereby the 'vacuum-state' is tapped. The PAGD discharge is a low field auto-electronic emission that directly generates the electron plasma from a cathode that can be treated as fuel [9]. This has a deep parallel with the Papp engine, where the explosion is, in our view, driven by the formation of an electron plasma emitted from the inert gas mixture - which must thus be treated as the fuel proper (see below). The basis for th! e presence of anomalous cathode reaction forces in the Papp combustion, stems, in our view, entirely from the (quasi-solid) conditions that permit autoelectronic emission from inert gases. " I sure backed into that one. :-) Fred - Original Message - From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 5/1/2006 3:22:57 AM Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone A standard 4 foot (122 cm long) T-12 1.5 inch (3.8 cm diameter) fluorescent bulb at5 Torr Argon pressure should contain ~ 2.46e20 Argon atoms. or ~0.025eV /atom with a 1.0 joule energy input. pulse. About the same eV/atom at 300 degrees Kambienttemperature. Sounds a bit like the PAGD doesn't it? There could be H2O vapor in the bulb already?
Re: Hydrino orgone
In the words of James Burke's, "Connections". The Inversion Temperature: " the 'normal' effect of cooling when a gas expands takes place below that temperature, above that temperature it heats under expansion." Gas Inversion Temp Deg K Space 0-3 Helium 51 Hydrogen 205 -90.67 F Neon 242 Nitrogen 621 658.13 F Argon 723 841.73 F Krypton 727 Oxygen893 1147.73Xenon 1427 Zero Deg C = 273 Deg K Zero Deg F = 255 Deg K Handy Conversion calculators. http://www.onlineconversion.com/temperature.htm Fred
Re: Hydrino orgone
There is this patent that can be related: http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat3781601.pdf MJ On 1 May 2006 at 2:23, Frederick Sparber wrote: Fluorescent lamps have an Argon fill pressure of ~ 3 to 5 Torr: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6683407-description.html If there are any low-pressure/vacuum-induced (Casimir-ZPE) heat effects, they should show up when a lamp is first lit. Charge a capacitor to a few KV and dump it into a fluorescent bulb blackened with spray paint, and placed inside a water-filled PVC pipe calorimeter? Hooked up as the negative resistance discharge load of a relaxation oscillator? Which way will the orgone flow? Fred
Re: Hydrino orgone
Mark Jordan wrote. There is this patent that can be related: http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat3781601.pdf MJ Thanks Mark. An interesting way to boost luminous efficiency but no direct info on OU heat without running an experiment. If you compare #18 table I (22.33 watts input) and Table II lamp #18 (10.90 watts input) he is using 33.23 watts and a bunch of lamps to get that boost. No? Fred On 1 May 2006 at 2:23, Frederick Sparber wrote: Fluorescent lamps have an Argon fill pressure of ~ 3 to 5 Torr: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6683407-description.html If there are any low-pressure/vacuum-induced (Casimir-ZPE) heat effects, they should show up when a lamp is first lit. Charge a capacitor to a few KV and dump it into a fluorescent bulb blackened with spray paint, and placed inside a water-filled PVC pipe calorimeter? Hooked up as the negative resistance discharge load of a relaxation oscillator? Which way will the orgone flow? Fred
Re: Hydrino orgone
- Original Message - From: Mark Jordan There is this patent that can be related: http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat3781601.pdf And ... check out the rather amazing claim on page 65 of this document, 2/3 down the left column. That would be clearly overunity yet... this patent has been around for 35 years now and Imris is not exactly a houshold word - nor is the technique is general use, which it should be if it were true - and with patents expired and many companies desirous to save power on lighting strange. Mark has commented on this on Keeleynet but they are using the substandard eScribe server and very little will come up. But further - and on a curious (and convoluted note) the assignee: Ecotrol - is now apparently a trademark of the EcoSmart company in Tennessee, among whose many patents for pesticides are quite a few under the name of Paul Sprain, who apparently has switched his focus these days to magnetic overunity. At any rate, he seems to be quite the ecologist and creative genius - but certainly not a publicity seeker... and there is no reason to believe that there is anything other than a coincidental connection of these similar names. Jones Imris patent 3,781,601 - Inv: Pavel Imris, West Haven, Conn. Assigned to: Ecotrol, Inc. Md, Describing the circuit on page 6...the face of the electrode can be any desired shape. However, a conical point of 60 degrees has been found to be satisfactory and it is believed to have an influence on the efficiency of the generator. In addition, the type of gas selected for used in the tube 26 as well as the pressure of the gas in the tube also effect the efficiency of the generator, and, in turn, the efficiency of electrical circuit. Across a single fluorescent lamp, the voltage is 60 V and the current is 0.1818 A; therefore the input energy to the lamp 42 is 10.90 W. The output of the fluorescent lamp is 3,200 lumens which represent 8.8 W power of light energy. Thus, the one fluorescent lamp is operating at 80.7 percent efficiency under these conditions. In Fig 3, still another embodiment of the optical electrostatic generator 20b is shown. The generator is also particularly useable in a circuit including electrostatic particle precipitation in air pollution control devices, chemical synthesis in electrical discharge systems such as ozone generators, and charging means for high voltage generators of the Van de Graff type, as well as particle accelerators. However, when the optical generator is the same as described for Test No 18 and there are 100 fluorescent lamps in series in the circuit, the total power input is 227.7 watts for the optical generator and 1,090 watts for 100 fluorescent lamps or a total of 1,318 watts. The total power input normally required to operate the 100 fluorescent lamps in a normal circuit would be 40 watts times 100 or 4,000 watts. Thus, by using the optical generator in the circuit, about 2,680 watts of energy are saved. It was already 80% efficient, we are told and yet now the power input has been reduced to a third of the previous power indication a COP of at least 2.4 At higher pressures, the device deffinitely becomes Over Unity in the claims. For instance, with a Xenon filled tube at 5,000 torr in a series circuit with 100 40 Watt flouresent lamps (with a single wire going to each end of each lamp), the optical generator pulls 332 Watts, with each lamp pulling 9 tenths Watt (at 5 Volts) for 3,200 lumens output (8.8 Watts) per tube - giving a total for the circuit of 880 Watts output for 442 Watts input. Hmmm something doesn't add up here, no?
Re: Hydrino orgone
A "Remanufactured" 12 volt lead-acid battery seems like an easier/cheaper way to make a "Joe Cell". The charged 12 volt utility batteries used in lawn mowers etc usually sell for $25.00 if you don't have a trade-in. But you would have to flush out the electrolyte using baking soda to neutralize the sulfuric acid. Lead Acid Battery Recycling Info: http://www.lead-battery-recycling.com/lead-battery-recycling.html Good Pix too. Fred
Re: Hydrino orgone
Let's find out if nature's thermodynamics allows an engine to run on damp air created by using the evaporative cooling effect (Venturi aspiration on water) on the incoming air, and using the 4 cycle engine to optimize the INVERSION TEMPERATURE so that during the power stroke the EXPANDING GAS HEATS. IOW. The "Joe Cell" may turn out to be a Red Herring. USE THIS PSYCH CHART: http://www.linric.com/webpsysi.htm The Inversion Temperature: " the 'normal' effect of cooling when a gas expands takes place below that temperature, above that temperature it heats under expansion." Gas Inversion Temp Deg K Space 0-3 Helium 51 Hydrogen 205 -90.67 F Neon 242 Nitrogen 621 658.13 F Argon 723 841.73 F Krypton 727 Oxygen893 1147.73Xenon 1427 Zero Deg C = 273 Deg K Zero Deg F = 255 Deg K Conversion calculators. http://www.onlineconversion.com/temperature.htm Fred
Re: Hydrino orgone
Posted earlier: IOW. The "Joe Cell" may turn out to be a Red Herring. I meant it may not need to produce O, OH, and H, H2 or H3O, but, the electrolysis heat from the battery may provide the heat for vaporizing the water, SATURATED STEAM TABLE CALCULATOR: (and more) http://www.connel.com/cgi-bin/steam.pl Why rack your brain? :-) Fred - Original Message - From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 5/1/2006 6:19:57 PM Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone Let's find out if nature's thermodynamics allows an engine to run on damp air created by using the evaporative cooling effect (Venturi aspiration on water) on the incoming air, and using the 4 cycle engine to optimize the INVERSION TEMPERATURE so that during the power stroke the EXPANDING GAS HEATS. IOW. The "Joe Cell" may turn out to be a Red Herring. USE THIS PSYCH CHART: http://www.linric.com/webpsysi.htm The Inversion Temperature: " the 'normal' effect of cooling when a gas expands takes place below that temperature, above that temperature it heats under expansion." Gas Inversion Temp Deg K Space 0-3 Helium 51 Hydrogen 205 -90.67 F Neon 242 Nitrogen 621 658.13 F Argon 723 841.73 F Krypton 727 Oxygen893 1147.73Xenon 1427 Zero Deg C = 273 Deg K Zero Deg F = 255 Deg K Conversion calculators. http://www.onlineconversion.com/temperature.htm Fred
Re: Hydrino orgone
At 04:20 am 30/04/2006 -0600, Fred wrote: Frank Grimer wrote: Sounds plausible. For example, it would be difficult for someone to invent the following since it is unlikely they would understand the concept of negative energy. That statement sounds as though it comes from a garage experimentalist who is not inhibited by conventional theory and does not realise the what he is doing is supposed to be impossible. The idea of using cold as an energy source reminds one of a Stirling engine running on ice. Take it a step further, Frank. The predominant factor as seen in most OU effects is the transient exposure of atoms-molecules to low pressure soft vacuum. Vortices, Orgone, MAHG, Cavitation Bubbles, Exploding Lightbulbs, and so on. Almost as though soft vacuum exposure allows the Casimir Force to collapse the electron clouds closer into the nuclei. WIMPS? Absolutely. 8-) In my language is a case of Beta-atmosphere condensation when the Beta-atmosphere pressure drops - a process very analogous to Alpha atmosphere condensation when the A-atm pressure drops. It seems more than likely that Bo-Ein. explanation for CF is just an unnecessarily complicated way of saying the same thing. One can imagine people explaining water condensation in an equally redundant fashion. Or conversely, the electron clouds expand outwardly from the nuclei by ZPE pumping and they collapse into the normal ambient/ground state when exposed to a triggering energy. All of our pet agenda explanations go out the door, along with our concept of Enthalpy-Entropy /Thermodynamics. :-) Well, I suppose it's a bit like Ohm's Law going out the window when alternating current became popular. Ohms Law wasn't wrong. It was just restricted to a particular boundary case of alternating current with zero frequency. Frank
Re: Hydrino orgone
Fred wrote.. The predominant factor as seen in most OU effects is the transient exposure of atoms-molecules to low pressure "soft vacuum". Vortices, Orgone, MAHG, Cavitation Bubbles, Exploding Lightbulbs, and so on. Or conversely, the electron clouds expand outwardly from the nuclei by ZPE pumping and they collapse into the normal "ambient/ground state" when exposed to a triggering energy. All of our pet agenda explanations go out the door, along with our concept of Enthalpy-Entropy/"Thermodynamics". :-) Howdy Fred and Grimer, Any high school physics student can tell somethingis missing from the concept of thermodynamics. The trouble with saddling a strange horse in the dark is the risk of choosing a 3 legged one. Once in the saddle you are not only in for a rough ride, it's embarrassing when daylight comes. However, when one is stuck for transportation trying to get where one's going, one must be creative in their posture. Either laugh it off or deride thoseon polkadot horses. Thus the plight of certain areas of mainstream science. Richard
Re: Hydrino orgone
Right Richard. Whenever you hear or see the word mainstream just substitute the word herd. (By the way, we used to have the same problem in Scotland; whether to catch and eat plain Haggis or polkadot Haggis...) P. At 06:54 AM 4/30/2006 -0500, you wrote: Fred wrote.. The predominant factor as seen in most OU effects is the transient exposure of atoms-molecules to low pressure soft vacuum. Vortices, Orgone, MAHG, Cavitation Bubbles, Exploding Lightbulbs, and so on. Or conversely, the electron clouds expand outwardly from the nuclei by ZPE pumping and they collapse into the normal ambient/ground state when exposed to a triggering energy. All of our pet agenda explanations go out the door, along with our concept of Enthalpy-Entropy /Thermodynamics. :-) Howdy Fred and Grimer, Any high school physics student can tell something is missing from the concept of thermodynamics. The trouble with saddling a strange horse in the dark is the risk of choosing a 3 legged one. Once in the saddle you are not only in for a rough ride, it's embarrassing when daylight comes. However, when one is stuck for transportation trying to get where one's going, one must be creative in their posture. Either laugh it off or deride those on polkadot horses. Thus the plight of certain areas of mainstream science. Richard
Re: Hydrino orgone
Cool. Harry Grimer wrote: At 09:48 am 30/04/2006 +1000, you wrote: Hi, I just came across this:- http://www.nutech2000.com/webtext/forum/hydrinopower.html Sounds plausible. For example, it would be difficult for someone to invent the following since it is unlikely they would understand the concept of negative energy. One of the difficulties of the JOE cell appeared to be that the motor ran so cold that the water in circulation in the car motor froze. It was proposed that the water in the cars cooling system be replaced with hydraulic fluid which doesn't freeze as readily. That statement sounds as though it comes from a garage experimentalist who is not inhibited by conventional theory and does not realise the what he is doing is supposed to be impossible. The idea of using cold as an energy source reminds one of a Stirling engine running on ice. Mmmminteresting. Frank Grimer
Re: Hydrino orgone
At 06:59 am 30/04/2006 -0600, Fred wrote: Richard wrote. Howdy Fred and Grimer, Any high school physics student can tell something is missing from the concept of thermodynamics. The Negative/plate-push Casimir Force and the Negative Heat (ZPE) Vacuum, perhaps? The trouble with saddling a strange horse in the dark is the risk of choosing a 3 legged one. Once in the saddle you are not only in for a rough ride, it's embarrassing when daylight comes Or you could lend your steed a hand. :-) However, when one is stuck for transportation trying to get where one's going, one must be creative in their posture. I think they call it crawling when you do that. Or even brown nosing. ;-) Either laugh it off or deride those on polkadot horses. Or Gold Caddies. Thus the plight of certain areas of mainstream science. As strange as the Joe Cell - Hydrino Orgone presentations are, ignorance may very well be bliss, as Frank Grimer suggests. He has indeed deposuit potentes de sede et exaltavit humiles. Hydrino is a catchy name for a Weakly Interacting Massive Particle WIMP, created by transitory exposure to the low pressure soft vacuum In terms of the Beta-atmosphere that should be hard vacuum. See explanation below. that both of these have in common. That is to say, low pressure electrolysis cells that provide the heat of vaporization of the water and also use the evaporated water vapor H2O as a carrier for the generated OH and H or H3O free radicals which may concurrently be expanding or contracting due to Casimir-Vacuum ZPE effects with the low Cell pressures (~ 60 liters/gram vapour densities) created by the engine suction/manifold pressure. Fred Yep. I think our ideas are slowly converging and we are getting there. As shown by what I call the PV^6 relation (but what might be more intelligible if I called it the B-atm.pressure + applied pressure)^6 = a constant where B-atm.pressure is approx. 4000 atmospheres) there is a hard B-atm vacuum of -60,000 psi in the spaces between the water molecule/clusters and this is responsible for the unrecognised physics. Think of it at very low temperature which shrinks thingees or the inverse, very high Compreture which squashes thingees. 8-) Cheers, Frank
Re: Hydrino orgone
Grimer wrote. At 06:59 am 30/04/2006 -0600, Fred wrote: As strange as the Joe Cell - Hydrino Orgone presentations are, ignorance may very well be bliss, as Frank Grimer suggests. He has indeed deposuit potentes de sede et exaltavit humiles. I hope you're not insulting me in your style of English. Hydrino is a catchy name for a Weakly Interacting Massive Particle WIMP, created by transitory exposure to the low pressure soft vacuum In terms of the Beta-atmosphere that should be hard vacuum. See explanation below. Okay, Frank. By soft vacuum I was referring to residual atoms-molecules with enough mean-free-path spacing to allow hard vacuum interaction with them viz the Casimir plates pushing together, usually the force is measured in a good vacuum. That is to say, low pressure electrolysis cells that provide the heat of vaporization of the water and also use the evaporated water vapor H2O as a carrier for the generated OH and H or H3O free radicals which may concurrently be expanding or contracting due to Casimir-Vacuum ZPE effects with the low Cell pressures (~ 60 liters/gram vapour densities) created by the engine suction/manifold pressure. Yep. I think our ideas are slowly converging and we are getting there. As shown by what I call the PV^6 relation (but what might be more intelligible if I called it the B-atm.pressure + applied pressure)^6 = a constant where B-atm.pressure is approx. 4000 atmospheres) Hal Puthoff once told me that the Casimir Plate force was 1/D^4 Does that come out the same, or could the be seeing electromagnetic interaction? Van der waals forces are 6th -12th power aren't they? there is a hard B-atm vacuum of -60,000 psi in the spaces between the water molecule/clusters and this is responsible for the unrecognised physics. Think of it at very low temperature which shrinks thingees or the inverse, very high Compreture which squashes thingees. 8-) Right, Frank. Thanks for staying on topic. :-) Fred Cheers, Frank
Re: Hydrino orgone
At 01:11 pm 30/04/2006 -0600, Fred wrote: Grimer wrote. He has indeed deposuit potentes de sede et exaltavit humiles. I hope you're not insulting me in your style of English. I was referring to the garage experimenters. As for it being an insult - hardly. It's a line from the Magnificat, a hymn of praise to the Mother of God. Hydrino is a catchy name for a Weakly Interacting Massive Particle WIMP, created by transitory exposure to the low pressure soft vacuum In terms of the Beta-atmosphere that should be hard vacuum. See explanation below. Okay, Frank. By soft vacuum I was referring to residual atoms-molecules with enough mean-free-path spacing to allow hard vacuum interaction with them viz the Casimir plates pushing together, usually the force is measured in a good vacuum. ... Hal Puthoff once told me that the Casimir Plate force was 1/D^4 Yep. But as I pointed in previous posts (Vortex or B-atm.Group) the fourth power relates to the 1D case. For 2D and 3D you have 8th and 12th powers respectively as illustrated by the vapour pressure laws of H2O. So if we have any clustering the higher powers will apply. Cheers, Frank
Re: Hydrino orgone
Low pressure effects and turbulencein tornados-hurricanes-vortices aside for the moment, J. L.. Naudin's pulsed MAHG was at about 80 torr pressure. The pulsing at ~ 1.0 millisecond on and ~ 19 milliseconds off would be a way thatmighthave vacuum effects similar to those that seem to be occurring in the J Cell. Hard to say what was going on in his calorimetry under the conditions where the"hydrino collapse- expansion" was drawing heat from the water in it one moment and adding it the next. Fred
Hydrino orgone
Hi, I just came across this:- http://www.nutech2000.com/webtext/forum/hydrinopower.html Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
Re: Hydrino orgone
At 09:48 am 30/04/2006 +1000, you wrote: Hi, I just came across this:- http://www.nutech2000.com/webtext/forum/hydrinopower.html Sounds plausible. For example, it would be difficult for someone to invent the following since it is unlikely they would understand the concept of negative energy. One of the difficulties of the JOE cell appeared to be that the motor ran so cold that the water in circulation in the car motor froze. It was proposed that the water in the cars cooling system be replaced with hydraulic fluid which doesn't freeze as readily. That statement sounds as though it comes from a garage experimentalist who is not inhibited by conventional theory and does not realise the what he is doing is supposed to be impossible. The idea of using cold as an energy source reminds one of a Stirling engine running on ice. Mmmminteresting. Frank Grimer
