Re: [Vo]: RAR energia update
It will make a brilliant centre peice for a museum looking at all the attempts, both successful and unsucessful, to find alternative energy sources. I guess the problem is that we dont yet know which of the two sections of the museum which should put this (and many other current projects) into, although I know where I would put my money on this one. Nigel On 17/12/2013 02:56, a.ashfield wrote: RAR continues to post new photos at their site http://rarenergia.com.br/ I also see they claim to have posted five newspaper adverts in the Gilman IL area saying: The generator is driven by a mechanical system that is fed exclusively from the Earth's gravity. It will be the first equipment with this technology in the world. This mechanical system was conceptualized and created to capture ans use energy contained in the earth's gravity. This system will work anywhere, anytime without pollution or heat. The mechanical movement is continuous and eternal... I can't believe that perpetual motion is possible nor can I believe anyone would build a second machine like this without knowing it worked It's a real puzzle.
Re: [Vo]: RAR energia update
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote: Truly bizarre, and I could care less as to its usefulness. . . . could *not* care less . . .
Re: [Vo]: RAR energia update
Obviously I hope it performs as advertised. So I do care in that respect. My point is it is novel and inspired enough to be interesting and worth paying attention to no matter what. On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 7:57 AM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote: Truly bizarre, and I could care less as to its usefulness. . . . could *not* care less . . .
Re: [Vo]: RAR energia update
Foks0904 : Obviously I hope it performs as advertised. What has hope got to do with science? Do you believe in mind matter effects and magical thinking? Nature (excuse the pun) just does what it bloody well wants to. CF *is* like RAR where grown ups keep telling them to read the proper literature (or get an education) and some things just **are impossible**. On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote: Obviously I hope it performs as advertised. So I do care in that respect. My point is it is novel and inspired enough to be interesting and worth paying attention to no matter what. On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 7:57 AM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote: Truly bizarre, and I could care less as to its usefulness. . . . could *not* care less . . .
Re: [Vo]: RAR energia update
It was, and is the hope that we will find cures for cancer that provides the funds for many people such as myself to do the research that I am doing. In a number of cases there was no scientific basis for the hope when the research was started, but it funded the scientific research, and science produced results. In other cases the hope has (to date) proved to be unfounded. Nigel On 17/12/2013 15:14, John Franks wrote: Foks0904 : Obviously I hope it performs as advertised. What has hope got to do with science? Do you believe in mind matter effects and magical thinking? Nature (excuse the pun) just does what it bloody well wants to. CF *is* like RAR where grown ups keep telling them to read the proper literature (or get an education) and some things just **are impossible**.
Re: [Vo]: RAR energia update
What has hope got to do with science? Your assertion below is incorrect. We know that physical diseases have a biochemical basis, so we are correct to apply the scientific method and *suspect* that greater knowledge and/or a cure will result. This is why people fund the science of cancer research. It is based on the good reputation, good education, legacy of discoveries in the subject. In the case of CF, there is none of this. It doesn't get past first base as there is no data and when there is claims of data, that data is flawed. There is no theory base too to make the real scientific community *suspect* that anything will come out of it. You're on the same level as the RAR people, though with a little more knowledge of science but it's all ad-hoc and you attempt to blind people with science on things like BECs, lanthanide contractions, relativistic effects on f-shells, plasmids because it sounds flash and like I said, you are playing at science, it's Cargo Cult Science. If the RAR/Besslers wheel people started talking all kinds of fancy Quantum Gravity, wormhole through space into extra dimensions, you'd suspect immediately that they had been watching too much Stargate and that a little bit of knowledge can fool all the people all the time. It's all Rodney Mackay bar the Canadian accent and comedy acting. This is how people who know about nuclear physics feel about the CF crowd - wannabes, amateurs, people mixing science fiction with science fact. On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Nigel Dyer l...@thedyers.org.uk wrote: It was, and is the hope that we will find cures for cancer that provides the funds for many people such as myself to do the research that I am doing. In a number of cases there was no scientific basis for the hope when the research was started, but it funded the scientific research, and science produced results. In other cases the hope has (to date) proved to be unfounded. Nigel
Re: [Vo]: RAR energia update
* It doesn't get past first base as there is no data and when there is claims of data, that data is flawed. There is no theory base too to make the real scientific community *suspect* that anything will come out of it.* What is wrong with the data Mr. Franks? Specifically the Excess Heat data. What artifacts are present in the calorimetry? Point out to me the peer reviewed critiques of researchers' calorimetry that have stood the test of time. Don't bring nonsense complaints that no theory can account for the effect. Who demanded a theory right away for superconductivity? How about excess heat coming off radium in early 20th century? Show me how the heat measurements are wrong. I asked you this in the your orphaned thread on recombination, which you quickly abandoned. I pointed out to you that the Big 3 objections (recombination, stirring, cigarette lighter effect) had all been accounted for and answered between 1989 and 1994. Just the fact you had no idea that the recombination issue in cold fusion cells had been long settled speaks volumes about your ignorance of this subject generally. On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 10:51 AM, John Franks jf27...@gmail.com wrote: What has hope got to do with science? Your assertion below is incorrect. We know that physical diseases have a biochemical basis, so we are correct to apply the scientific method and *suspect* that greater knowledge and/or a cure will result. This is why people fund the science of cancer research. It is based on the good reputation, good education, legacy of discoveries in the subject. In the case of CF, there is none of this. It doesn't get past first base as there is no data and when there is claims of data, that data is flawed. There is no theory base too to make the real scientific community *suspect* that anything will come out of it. You're on the same level as the RAR people, though with a little more knowledge of science but it's all ad-hoc and you attempt to blind people with science on things like BECs, lanthanide contractions, relativistic effects on f-shells, plasmids because it sounds flash and like I said, you are playing at science, it's Cargo Cult Science. If the RAR/Besslers wheel people started talking all kinds of fancy Quantum Gravity, wormhole through space into extra dimensions, you'd suspect immediately that they had been watching too much Stargate and that a little bit of knowledge can fool all the people all the time. It's all Rodney Mackay bar the Canadian accent and comedy acting. This is how people who know about nuclear physics feel about the CF crowd - wannabes, amateurs, people mixing science fiction with science fact. On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Nigel Dyer l...@thedyers.org.uk wrote: It was, and is the hope that we will find cures for cancer that provides the funds for many people such as myself to do the research that I am doing. In a number of cases there was no scientific basis for the hope when the research was started, but it funded the scientific research, and science produced results. In other cases the hope has (to date) proved to be unfounded. Nigel
Re: [Vo]: RAR energia update
What is wrong with the data Mr. Franks? Specifically the Excess Heat data. What artifacts are present in the calorimetry? Point out to me the peer reviewed critiques of researchers' calorimetry that have stood the test of time. Wow! Was it you claiming one group had 100% repeatability or another 70-80%. If that is the case, why are you arguing with me? Don't bring nonsense complaints that no theory can account for the effect. Who demanded a theory right away for superconductivity? How about excess heat coming off radium in early 20th century? Show me how the heat measurements are wrong. Silly rabbit. They had something working. (see my first response above). I asked you this in the your orphaned thread on recombination, which you quickly abandoned. I pointed out to you that the Big 3 objections (recombination, stirring, cigarette lighter effect) had all been accounted for and answered between 1989 and 1994. If you are quoting stuff from that long ago, where is the monograph. Where are the graduate level courses at top institutions teaching this as you seem to regard it as common knowledge. You people are not scientists, or even engineers. You are journalists, activists, the awkward squad who mistake shouting, posturing, getting liked on facebook or youtube as the process of doing science. All I have to report, as ever, is that Cold Fusion is a dead subject full of wannabes, the mentally ill and geriatrics, since no self-respecting young person would waste time learning useless knowledge in this subject.
Re: [Vo]: RAR energia update
Please don't unsubscribe Mr. Franks. Your tact is unparalleled and would surely be missed. On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:40 AM, John Franks jf27...@gmail.com wrote: What is wrong with the data Mr. Franks? Specifically the Excess Heat data. What artifacts are present in the calorimetry? Point out to me the peer reviewed critiques of researchers' calorimetry that have stood the test of time. Wow! Was it you claiming one group had 100% repeatability or another 70-80%. If that is the case, why are you arguing with me? Don't bring nonsense complaints that no theory can account for the effect. Who demanded a theory right away for superconductivity? How about excess heat coming off radium in early 20th century? Show me how the heat measurements are wrong. Silly rabbit. They had something working. (see my first response above). I asked you this in the your orphaned thread on recombination, which you quickly abandoned. I pointed out to you that the Big 3 objections (recombination, stirring, cigarette lighter effect) had all been accounted for and answered between 1989 and 1994. If you are quoting stuff from that long ago, where is the monograph. Where are the graduate level courses at top institutions teaching this as you seem to regard it as common knowledge. You people are not scientists, or even engineers. You are journalists, activists, the awkward squad who mistake shouting, posturing, getting liked on facebook or youtube as the process of doing science. All I have to report, as ever, is that Cold Fusion is a dead subject full of wannabes, the mentally ill and geriatrics, since no self-respecting young person would waste time learning useless knowledge in this subject.
Re: [Vo]: RAR energia update
Well Mr. Franks bailed preemptively. For anyone else whose interested: Oriani, Excess Heat, Fusion Technology: http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/OrianiRAcalorimetr.pdf Morrison-Fleischman debate about Fleischman's published calorimetry in Physics Letters: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Fleischmanreplytothe.pdf On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote: Please don't unsubscribe Mr. Franks. Your tact is unparalleled and would surely be missed. On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:40 AM, John Franks jf27...@gmail.com wrote: What is wrong with the data Mr. Franks? Specifically the Excess Heat data. What artifacts are present in the calorimetry? Point out to me the peer reviewed critiques of researchers' calorimetry that have stood the test of time. Wow! Was it you claiming one group had 100% repeatability or another 70-80%. If that is the case, why are you arguing with me? Don't bring nonsense complaints that no theory can account for the effect. Who demanded a theory right away for superconductivity? How about excess heat coming off radium in early 20th century? Show me how the heat measurements are wrong. Silly rabbit. They had something working. (see my first response above). I asked you this in the your orphaned thread on recombination, which you quickly abandoned. I pointed out to you that the Big 3 objections (recombination, stirring, cigarette lighter effect) had all been accounted for and answered between 1989 and 1994. If you are quoting stuff from that long ago, where is the monograph. Where are the graduate level courses at top institutions teaching this as you seem to regard it as common knowledge. You people are not scientists, or even engineers. You are journalists, activists, the awkward squad who mistake shouting, posturing, getting liked on facebook or youtube as the process of doing science. All I have to report, as ever, is that Cold Fusion is a dead subject full of wannabes, the mentally ill and geriatrics, since no self-respecting young person would waste time learning useless knowledge in this subject.
Re: [Vo]: RAR energia update
This image shows the RAR Energia device moving at its maximum rotational velocity: http://rarenergia.com.br/imagem51a.JPG (I'm not sneering, I'm snarking!) - Brad On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 9:00 AM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote: Well Mr. Franks bailed preemptively. For anyone else whose interested: Oriani, Excess Heat, Fusion Technology: http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/OrianiRAcalorimetr.pdf Morrison-Fleischman debate about Fleischman's published calorimetry in Physics Letters: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Fleischmanreplytothe.pdf On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote: Please don't unsubscribe Mr. Franks. Your tact is unparalleled and would surely be missed. On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:40 AM, John Franks jf27...@gmail.com wrote: What is wrong with the data Mr. Franks? Specifically the Excess Heat data. What artifacts are present in the calorimetry? Point out to me the peer reviewed critiques of researchers' calorimetry that have stood the test of time. Wow! Was it you claiming one group had 100% repeatability or another 70-80%. If that is the case, why are you arguing with me? Don't bring nonsense complaints that no theory can account for the effect. Who demanded a theory right away for superconductivity? How about excess heat coming off radium in early 20th century? Show me how the heat measurements are wrong. Silly rabbit. They had something working. (see my first response above). I asked you this in the your orphaned thread on recombination, which you quickly abandoned. I pointed out to you that the Big 3 objections (recombination, stirring, cigarette lighter effect) had all been accounted for and answered between 1989 and 1994. If you are quoting stuff from that long ago, where is the monograph. Where are the graduate level courses at top institutions teaching this as you seem to regard it as common knowledge. You people are not scientists, or even engineers. You are journalists, activists, the awkward squad who mistake shouting, posturing, getting liked on facebook or youtube as the process of doing science. All I have to report, as ever, is that Cold Fusion is a dead subject full of wannabes, the mentally ill and geriatrics, since no self-respecting young person would waste time learning useless knowledge in this subject.
Re: [Vo]: RAR energia update
James, Yes it is. It was then published in Fusion Technology, which I believe George Miley was editing at the time. On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 1:40 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Is that Oriani paper the draft that Oriani testifies the US editors of Nature rejected, despite it passing peer Nature's own peer review? On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote: Well Mr. Franks bailed preemptively. For anyone else whose interested: Oriani, Excess Heat, Fusion Technology: http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/OrianiRAcalorimetr.pdf Morrison-Fleischman debate about Fleischman's published calorimetry in Physics Letters: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Fleischmanreplytothe.pdf On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote: Please don't unsubscribe Mr. Franks. Your tact is unparalleled and would surely be missed. On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:40 AM, John Franks jf27...@gmail.com wrote: What is wrong with the data Mr. Franks? Specifically the Excess Heat data. What artifacts are present in the calorimetry? Point out to me the peer reviewed critiques of researchers' calorimetry that have stood the test of time. Wow! Was it you claiming one group had 100% repeatability or another 70-80%. If that is the case, why are you arguing with me? Don't bring nonsense complaints that no theory can account for the effect. Who demanded a theory right away for superconductivity? How about excess heat coming off radium in early 20th century? Show me how the heat measurements are wrong. Silly rabbit. They had something working. (see my first response above). I asked you this in the your orphaned thread on recombination, which you quickly abandoned. I pointed out to you that the Big 3 objections (recombination, stirring, cigarette lighter effect) had all been accounted for and answered between 1989 and 1994. If you are quoting stuff from that long ago, where is the monograph. Where are the graduate level courses at top institutions teaching this as you seem to regard it as common knowledge. You people are not scientists, or even engineers. You are journalists, activists, the awkward squad who mistake shouting, posturing, getting liked on facebook or youtube as the process of doing science. All I have to report, as ever, is that Cold Fusion is a dead subject full of wannabes, the mentally ill and geriatrics, since no self-respecting young person would waste time learning useless knowledge in this subject.
Re: [Vo]: RAR energia update
Is that Oriani paper the draft that Oriani testifies the US editors of Nature rejected, despite it passing peer Nature's own peer review? On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote: Well Mr. Franks bailed preemptively. For anyone else whose interested: Oriani, Excess Heat, Fusion Technology: http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/OrianiRAcalorimetr.pdf Morrison-Fleischman debate about Fleischman's published calorimetry in Physics Letters: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Fleischmanreplytothe.pdf On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote: Please don't unsubscribe Mr. Franks. Your tact is unparalleled and would surely be missed. On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:40 AM, John Franks jf27...@gmail.com wrote: What is wrong with the data Mr. Franks? Specifically the Excess Heat data. What artifacts are present in the calorimetry? Point out to me the peer reviewed critiques of researchers' calorimetry that have stood the test of time. Wow! Was it you claiming one group had 100% repeatability or another 70-80%. If that is the case, why are you arguing with me? Don't bring nonsense complaints that no theory can account for the effect. Who demanded a theory right away for superconductivity? How about excess heat coming off radium in early 20th century? Show me how the heat measurements are wrong. Silly rabbit. They had something working. (see my first response above). I asked you this in the your orphaned thread on recombination, which you quickly abandoned. I pointed out to you that the Big 3 objections (recombination, stirring, cigarette lighter effect) had all been accounted for and answered between 1989 and 1994. If you are quoting stuff from that long ago, where is the monograph. Where are the graduate level courses at top institutions teaching this as you seem to regard it as common knowledge. You people are not scientists, or even engineers. You are journalists, activists, the awkward squad who mistake shouting, posturing, getting liked on facebook or youtube as the process of doing science. All I have to report, as ever, is that Cold Fusion is a dead subject full of wannabes, the mentally ill and geriatrics, since no self-respecting young person would waste time learning useless knowledge in this subject.
Re: [Vo]: RAR energia update
Just the sheer imagination and brazenness that went into this design brings a smile to my face. Truly bizarre, and I could care less as to its usefulness. It is an inspiring piece of art regardless of its technological utility. Brings a smile to my face. On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 9:56 PM, a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.net wrote: RAR continues to post new photos at their site http://rarenergia.com.br/ I also see they claim to have posted five newspaper adverts in the Gilman IL area saying: The generator is driven by a mechanical system that is fed exclusively from the Earth's gravity. It will be the first equipment with this technology in the world. This mechanical system was conceptualized and created to capture ans use energy contained in the earth's gravity. This system will work anywhere, anytime without pollution or heat. The mechanical movement is continuous and eternal... I can't believe that perpetual motion is possible nor can I believe anyone would build a second machine like this without knowing it worked It's a real puzzle.
Re: [Vo]: RAR energia update
Well, actually, if they are demonstrating an energy technology as radically different as they claim, I'd think twice about comparing its value as art. On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote: Just the sheer imagination and brazenness that went into this design brings a smile to my face. Truly bizarre, and I could care less as to its usefulness. It is an inspiring piece of art regardless of its technological utility. Brings a smile to my face. On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 9:56 PM, a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.netwrote: RAR continues to post new photos at their site http://rarenergia.com.br/ I also see they claim to have posted five newspaper adverts in the Gilman IL area saying: The generator is driven by a mechanical system that is fed exclusively from the Earth's gravity. It will be the first equipment with this technology in the world. This mechanical system was conceptualized and created to capture ans use energy contained in the earth's gravity. This system will work anywhere, anytime without pollution or heat. The mechanical movement is continuous and eternal... I can't believe that perpetual motion is possible nor can I believe anyone would build a second machine like this without knowing it worked It's a real puzzle.
Re: [Vo]: RAR energia update
Yes. If. And by Art I don't necessarily mean lacking in utility. I mean its a damn fine piece of craftsmanship whatever the hell it can or cannot do. On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 10:32 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Well, actually, if they are demonstrating an energy technology as radically different as they claim, I'd think twice about comparing its value as art. On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote: Just the sheer imagination and brazenness that went into this design brings a smile to my face. Truly bizarre, and I could care less as to its usefulness. It is an inspiring piece of art regardless of its technological utility. Brings a smile to my face. On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 9:56 PM, a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.netwrote: RAR continues to post new photos at their site http://rarenergia.com.br/ I also see they claim to have posted five newspaper adverts in the Gilman IL area saying: The generator is driven by a mechanical system that is fed exclusively from the Earth's gravity. It will be the first equipment with this technology in the world. This mechanical system was conceptualized and created to capture ans use energy contained in the earth's gravity. This system will work anywhere, anytime without pollution or heat. The mechanical movement is continuous and eternal... I can't believe that perpetual motion is possible nor can I believe anyone would build a second machine like this without knowing it worked It's a real puzzle.
Re: [Vo]: RAR energia update
Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote: Yes. If. And by Art I don't necessarily mean lacking in utility. I mean its a damn fine piece of craftsmanship whatever the hell it can or cannot do. I agree. It does look wonderful. Retro and steampunk, too. Many experimental machines and scientific instruments have also been wonderful well crafted, such as Tycho's astronomical instruments, Benz's tricycle automobile, and the Wright brothers bicycles and airplanes. - Jed
Re: [Vo]: RAR energia update
And the P-F cell perhaps? On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote: Yes. If. And by Art I don't necessarily mean lacking in utility. I mean its a damn fine piece of craftsmanship whatever the hell it can or cannot do. I agree. It does look wonderful. Retro and steampunk, too. Many experimental machines and scientific instruments have also been wonderful well crafted, such as Tycho's astronomical instruments, Benz's tricycle automobile, and the Wright brothers bicycles and airplanes. - Jed
RE: [Vo]: RAR Energia update
Like this 4 cylinder Stirling which I was hoping that Santa would deliver http://cdn.homemodelenginemachinist.com/images/1/5/2/7/8/dsc-0004-2.jpg Running on Nickel-hydrogen of course . From: Foks0904 And the P-F cell perhaps? Jed Rothwell wrote: Yes. If. And by Art I don't necessarily mean lacking in utility. I mean its a damn fine piece of craftsmanship whatever the hell it can or cannot do. I agree. It does look wonderful. Retro and steampunk, too. Many experimental machines and scientific instruments have also been wonderful well crafted, such as Tycho's astronomical instruments, Benz's tricycle automobile, and the Wright brothers bicycles and airplanes. - Jed
