Re: [Vo]:something to consider

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

At 09:50 PM 1/3/2013, Harry Veeder wrote:
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 
 wrote:

> At 04:32 PM 1/3/2013, Zell, Chris wrote:
>>
>> "do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult"  1 Pet. 3:9 NIV
>
>
> My teacher used to say, quoting the Bible, his interpretation, 
"Speak softly

> and have loud ears." I seem to remember it's from Timothy, but don't recall
> the original wording so I couldn't quickly find it.
>

Take to time to listen to the silences. Even speaking in soft voice
makes that impossible if it fills the silences.
Harry


Yes. 

Re: [Vo]:something to consider

[Harry Veeder]

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax  
wrote:
> At 04:32 PM 1/3/2013, Zell, Chris wrote:
>>
>> "do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult"  1 Pet. 3:9 NIV
>
>
> My teacher used to say, quoting the Bible, his interpretation, "Speak softly
> and have loud ears." I seem to remember it's from Timothy, but don't recall
> the original wording so I couldn't quickly find it.
>

Take to time to listen to the silences. Even speaking in soft voice
makes that impossible if it fills the silences.
Harry

RE: [Vo]:something to consider

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

At 04:32 PM 1/3/2013, Zell, Chris wrote:

"do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult"  1 Pet. 3:9 NIV


My teacher used to say, quoting the Bible, his interpretation, "Speak 
softly and have loud ears." I seem to remember it's from Timothy, but 
don't recall the original wording so I couldn't quickly find it.

RE: [Vo]:something to consider

[Zell, Chris]

"do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult"  1 Pet. 3:9 NIV


From: leaking pen [mailto:itsat...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 4:08 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:something to consider

I'm pointing out an inconsistency in a particular simile you made. Please, tell 
me if I have misrepresented your views

Alex Hollins

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jojo Jaro 
mailto:jth...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Because you have shown your disdain for me and my views, I will now treat your 
views with equal disdain.

Insults to my faith started from multiple members of this group long long long 
before I started insulting Lomax by telling the truth about his religion.

You might say there is nothing that leaking pen has posted in this post that 
would constitute an insult but you need to take his whole post history to 
properly evaluate his intent with this post.  Based on his hostile history to 
me, I have perceived this post to be an insult.  In fact, this is the 4th 
insult he has directed to me and this is the first time I am responding to him 
with an insult.


Jojo


PS, I have agreed to Mark's and David's reasonable proposal to stop the cycle 
of insults, and I have not insulted anyone, in fact, I have not posted for over 
12 hours now, and yet fresh insults continue to head my way.

My friends, I am not the problem here.




- Original Message -
From: leaking pen<mailto:itsat...@gmail.com>
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 1:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:something to consider

there's a big difference between disdain for having a view, and suggesting that 
because you belong to a group, you must be a murdering pedophile bent on the 
destruction of other groups.

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Jojo Jaro 
mailto:jth...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Eric, I forgot to mention.

What would you do if you are the subject of constant insults and ridicule for 
your views?  Would you not lash out in retaliation?  Your bias is why I grow 
more instransigent each day.  You express "grave concern" that islam may be 
"assaulted" but express no equal concern that I have been insulted time and 
time again here for my beliefs in the Bible.

Well you ask "what you would do if you were in Abd's situation".  Why don't you 
ask another equally valid question. "What would you do if you were in Jojo's 
position."

This problem has a very very very simple solution you know.



Jojo



- Original Message -
From: Eric Walker<mailto:eric.wal...@gmail.com>
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 2:02 PM
Subject: [Vo]:something to consider

I am starting this as a new thread because many people are starting to skip 
entire threads.  See my questions below.

I wrote "If that's the best we can do for now, how to address Abd's pressing 
concern about having his background and religion subject to constant assault on 
this list?"  But really this is a concern that pertains to all of us.  We need 
a list that is hospitable to all people who can make a competent contribution.  
(I do not mean *everybody*.  I do not mind in the slightest if list mods take 
action to make the list quite inhospitable to those who for whatever reason are 
too immature to contribute much of value.)

Think about what you would do if you were in Abd's situation.  Perhaps you 
would just abide the assault quietly.  Perhaps you would leave the list.  But 
that would not make the environment any more hospitable for others in shoes 
similar to yours.  You may not respond in the way that Abd has.  But we should 
appreciate that he's being put in a very awkward position and that he has 
broader interests in mind.

Eric


On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Eric Walker 
mailto:eric.wal...@gmail.com>> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 
mailto:a...@lomaxdesign.com>> wrote:

Oh, I'm quivering, shaking with the possibility that *Jed Rothwell* might 
filter me out.

I am not going to subscribe to VortexB-l. This is supposedy a moderated list. 
If it stays unmoderated, I won't be here long.

Hate to say it, but the troll is starting to win.  People are starting to lose 
patience with one another.  I think Steve Johnson has been on this list since 
early days.

Any word on Bill?  Is he ok?

How long do we suffer the present situation until we reconstitute under 
something like Google Groups, with Terry or another longtimer as mod? Or should 
everyone who can't stand the situation add he who shall not be named to a 
killfile?  If that's the best we can do for now, how to address Abd's pressing 
concern about having his background and religion subject to constant assault on 
this list?

Eric

Re: [Vo]:something to consider

[leaking pen]

I'm pointing out an inconsistency in a particular simile you made. Please,
tell me if I have misrepresented your views

Alex Hollins

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jojo Jaro  wrote:

> **
> Because you have shown your disdain for me and my views, I will now treat
> your views with equal disdain.
>
> Insults to my faith started from multiple members of this group long long
> long before I started insulting Lomax by telling the truth about his
> religion.
>
> You might say there is nothing that leaking pen has posted in this post
> that would constitute an insult but you need to take his whole post history
> to properly evaluate his intent with this post.  Based on his hostile
> history to me, I have perceived this post to be an insult.  In fact, this
> is the 4th insult he has directed to me and this is the first time I am
> responding to him with an insult.
>
>
> Jojo
>
>
> PS, I have agreed to Mark's and David's reasonable proposal to stop the
> cycle of insults, and I have not insulted anyone, in fact, I have not
> posted for over 12 hours now, and yet fresh insults continue to head my way.
>
> My friends, I am not the problem here.
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* leaking pen 
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Sent:* Friday, January 04, 2013 1:34 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:something to consider
>
> there's a big difference between disdain for having a view, and suggesting
> that because you belong to a group, you must be a murdering pedophile bent
> on the destruction of other groups.
>
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Jojo Jaro  wrote:
>
>> **
>> Eric, I forgot to mention.
>>
>> What would you do if you are the subject of constant insults and ridicule
>> for your views?  Would you not lash out in retaliation?  Your bias is why I
>> grow more instransigent each day.  You express "grave concern" that islam
>> may be "assaulted" but express no equal concern that I have been insulted
>> time and time again here for my beliefs in the Bible.
>>
>> Well you ask "what you would do if you were in Abd's situation".  Why
>> don't you ask another equally valid question. "What would you do if you
>> were in Jojo's position."
>>
>> This problem has a very very very simple solution you know.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jojo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Eric Walker 
>> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 03, 2013 2:02 PM
>> *Subject:* [Vo]:something to consider
>>
>> I am starting this as a new thread because many people are starting to
>> skip entire threads.  See my questions below.
>>
>> I wrote "If that's the best we can do for now, how to address Abd's
>> pressing concern about having his background and religion subject to
>> constant assault on this list?"  But really this is a concern that pertains
>> to all of us.  We need a list that is hospitable to all people who can make
>> a competent contribution.  (I do not mean *everybody*.  I do not mind in
>> the slightest if list mods take action to make the list quite inhospitable
>> to those who for whatever reason are too immature to contribute much of
>> value.)
>>
>> Think about what you would do if you were in Abd's situation.  Perhaps
>> you would just abide the assault quietly.  Perhaps you would leave the
>> list.  But that would not make the environment any more hospitable for
>> others in shoes similar to yours.  You may not respond in the way that Abd
>> has.  But we should appreciate that he's being put in a very awkward
>> position and that he has broader interests in mind.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:
>>
>>
>>  On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax >> > wrote:
>>>
>>>  Oh, I'm quivering, shaking with the possibility that *Jed Rothwell*
>>>> might filter me out.
>>>>
>>>> I am not going to subscribe to VortexB-l. This is supposedy a moderated
>>>> list. If it stays unmoderated, I won't be here long.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hate to say it, but the troll is starting to win.  People are starting
>>> to lose patience with one another.  I think Steve Johnson has been on this
>>> list since early days.
>>>
>>> Any word on Bill?  Is he ok?
>>>
>>> How long do we suffer the present situation until we reconstitute under
>>> something like Google Groups, with Terry or another longtimer as mod? Or
>>> should everyone who can't stand the situation add he who shall not be named
>>> to a killfile?  If that's the best we can do for now, how to address Abd's
>>> pressing concern about having his background and religion subject to
>>> constant assault on this list?
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:something to consider

[Jojo Jaro]

Because you have shown your disdain for me and my views, I will now treat your 
views with equal disdain.

Insults to my faith started from multiple members of this group long long long 
before I started insulting Lomax by telling the truth about his religion.

You might say there is nothing that leaking pen has posted in this post that 
would constitute an insult but you need to take his whole post history to 
properly evaluate his intent with this post.  Based on his hostile history to 
me, I have perceived this post to be an insult.  In fact, this is the 4th 
insult he has directed to me and this is the first time I am responding to him 
with an insult.


Jojo


PS, I have agreed to Mark's and David's reasonable proposal to stop the cycle 
of insults, and I have not insulted anyone, in fact, I have not posted for over 
12 hours now, and yet fresh insults continue to head my way.

My friends, I am not the problem here.




  - Original Message - 
  From: leaking pen 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 1:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [Vo]:something to consider


  there's a big difference between disdain for having a view, and suggesting 
that because you belong to a group, you must be a murdering pedophile bent on 
the destruction of other groups. 


  On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Jojo Jaro  wrote:

Eric, I forgot to mention. 

What would you do if you are the subject of constant insults and ridicule 
for your views?  Would you not lash out in retaliation?  Your bias is why I 
grow more instransigent each day.  You express "grave concern" that islam may 
be "assaulted" but express no equal concern that I have been insulted time and 
time again here for my beliefs in the Bible.

Well you ask "what you would do if you were in Abd's situation".  Why don't 
you ask another equally valid question. "What would you do if you were in 
Jojo's position."

This problem has a very very very simple solution you know.



Jojo



  - Original Message - 
  From: Eric Walker 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 2:02 PM
  Subject: [Vo]:something to consider


  I am starting this as a new thread because many people are starting to 
skip entire threads.  See my questions below.


  I wrote "If that's the best we can do for now, how to address Abd's 
pressing concern about having his background and religion subject to constant 
assault on this list?"  But really this is a concern that pertains to all of 
us.  We need a list that is hospitable to all people who can make a competent 
contribution.  (I do not mean *everybody*.  I do not mind in the slightest if 
list mods take action to make the list quite inhospitable to those who for 
whatever reason are too immature to contribute much of value.)


  Think about what you would do if you were in Abd's situation.  Perhaps 
you would just abide the assault quietly.  Perhaps you would leave the list.  
But that would not make the environment any more hospitable for others in shoes 
similar to yours.  You may not respond in the way that Abd has.  But we should 
appreciate that he's being put in a very awkward position and that he has 
broader interests in mind.


  Eric




  On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Eric Walker  
wrote: 


On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 
 wrote: 


  Oh, I'm quivering, shaking with the possibility that *Jed Rothwell* 
might filter me out.

  I am not going to subscribe to VortexB-l. This is supposedy a 
moderated list. If it stays unmoderated, I won't be here long.


Hate to say it, but the troll is starting to win.  People are starting 
to lose patience with one another.  I think Steve Johnson has been on this list 
since early days.


Any word on Bill?  Is he ok?


How long do we suffer the present situation until we reconstitute under 
something like Google Groups, with Terry or another longtimer as mod? Or should 
everyone who can't stand the situation add he who shall not be named to a 
killfile?  If that's the best we can do for now, how to address Abd's pressing 
concern about having his background and religion subject to constant assault on 
this list?


Eric

Re: [Vo]:something to consider

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

At 01:02 AM 1/3/2013, Eric Walker wrote:
I am starting this as a new thread because many 
people are starting to skip entire threads. Â See my questions below.


I wrote "If that's the best we can do for now, 
how to address Abd's pressing concern about 
having his background and religion subject to 
constant assault on this list?" Â But really 
this is a concern that pertains to all of us. Â 
We need a list that is hospitable to all people 
who can make a competent contribution. Â (I do 
not mean *everybody*. Â I do not mind in the 
slightest if list mods take action to make the 
list quite inhospitable to those who for 
whatever reason are too immature to contribute much of value.)


The problem is that there are no "list mods." 
Bill is absent. He last posted on 11/12/12. On 
11/4, he announced the removal of a list member:

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg72688.html

and he reiterated his policy. It's quite clear 
what he'd do. How far he'd go may be less clear, 
but the basic action is not in doubt.


Think about what you would do if you were in 
Abd's situation. Â Perhaps you would just abide 
the assault quietly. Â Perhaps you would leave 
the list. Â But that would not make the 
environment any more hospitable for others in 
shoes similar to yours. Â You may not respond in 
the way that Abd has. Â But we should appreciate 
that he's being put in a very awkward position 
and that he has broader interests in mind.


Thanks, Eric. There are solutions here, and I've 
acted to implement one, that can work if enough 
people want it to work, and that doesn't depend 
on voluntary compliance from trolls or other 
disruptive members. This list is currently, 
effectively, unmoderated. I do not know if 
subscription is working, I haven't checked, but 
if Bill moderates subscription, that may be 
missing also. Unmoderated lists go south, it is 
practically inevitable. Moderation can be very 
light, as has been Bill's practice, I urge 
reading his policy in the post cited above.


I know I can be controversial, but I also have a 
long reputation to maintain. I've promised that 
the new list will be operated as a continuation 
of this list, only with some new features. I'm 
the owner of the new list, but I promise to be 
open and transparent about that, and to be 
responsive to the community consensus. I will 
appoint new moderators, and at least one new list 
owner, from among those willing to serve and 
known and reasonably trustworthy. Bill, if he 
shows up, and if he wants to be an owner of the 
new list, I guarantee in advance that he'll be made one.


We need to be careful about the "owner" status. 
An owner can delete messages and the entire list, 
and an owner can remove moderators *and owners.* 
So the basic requirement for being an owner as a 
trustee for a community is trustwothiness.


I intend to implement forwarding from this list 
to the new list, assuming that I can get a 
subscription through. If not, I'll set up 
indirect forwarding, it's more of a nuisance but it's still possible.


What that will mean is that one will be able to 
read this list, but moderated, as determined by 
the moderation panel. Only new subscribers will 
be moderated on the new list, unmoderated when 
they show relevant postings, and placed back on 
moderation only after at least one violated 
warning, and this will be transparent and 
appealable, through a non-disruptive appeal 
process that will itself be transparent. 
Moderated members who flood moderators with 
irrelevant posts may be removed as members, but there will be warning.


Unfortunately, if one is reading the new list, 
replies will automatically go to the new list, 
not here. However, one can obviously fix that 
manually, if one prefers to reply to the existing Vortex list.


The new list direct subscription address: 
newvortex-subscr...@yahoogroups.com. On-line subscription is at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newvortex/join




Eric


On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Eric Walker 
<eric.wal...@gmail.com>Â wrote:


On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Abd ul-Rahman 
Lomax <a...@lomaxdesign.com> wrote:


Oh, I'm quivering, shaking with the possibility 
that *Jed Rothwell* might filter me out.


I am not going to subscribe to VortexB-l. This 
is supposedy a moderated list. If it stays unmoderated, I won't be here long.


Â
Hate to say it, but the troll is starting to 
win. Â People are starting to lose patience with 
one another.  I think Steve Johnson has been on this list since early days.


Any word on Bill? Â Is he ok?

How long do we suffer the present situation 
until we reconstitute under something like 
Google Groups, with Terry or another longtimer 
as mod? Or should everyone who can't stand the 
situation add he who shall not be named to a 
killfile? Â If that's the best we can do for 
now, how to address Abd's pressing concern about 
having his background and religion sub

Re: [Vo]:something to consider

[leaking pen]

there's a big difference between disdain for having a view, and suggesting
that because you belong to a group, you must be a murdering pedophile bent
on the destruction of other groups.

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Jojo Jaro  wrote:

> **
> Eric, I forgot to mention.
>
> What would you do if you are the subject of constant insults and ridicule
> for your views?  Would you not lash out in retaliation?  Your bias is why I
> grow more instransigent each day.  You express "grave concern" that islam
> may be "assaulted" but express no equal concern that I have been insulted
> time and time again here for my beliefs in the Bible.
>
> Well you ask "what you would do if you were in Abd's situation".  Why
> don't you ask another equally valid question. "What would you do if you
> were in Jojo's position."
>
> This problem has a very very very simple solution you know.
>
>
>
> Jojo
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Eric Walker 
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 03, 2013 2:02 PM
> *Subject:* [Vo]:something to consider
>
> I am starting this as a new thread because many people are starting to
> skip entire threads.  See my questions below.
>
> I wrote "If that's the best we can do for now, how to address Abd's
> pressing concern about having his background and religion subject to
> constant assault on this list?"  But really this is a concern that pertains
> to all of us.  We need a list that is hospitable to all people who can make
> a competent contribution.  (I do not mean *everybody*.  I do not mind in
> the slightest if list mods take action to make the list quite inhospitable
> to those who for whatever reason are too immature to contribute much of
> value.)
>
> Think about what you would do if you were in Abd's situation.  Perhaps you
> would just abide the assault quietly.  Perhaps you would leave the list.
>  But that would not make the environment any more hospitable for others in
> shoes similar to yours.  You may not respond in the way that Abd has.  But
> we should appreciate that he's being put in a very awkward position and
> that he has broader interests in mind.
>
> Eric
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:
>
>
>  On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax  
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>  Oh, I'm quivering, shaking with the possibility that *Jed Rothwell*
>>> might filter me out.
>>>
>>> I am not going to subscribe to VortexB-l. This is supposedy a moderated
>>> list. If it stays unmoderated, I won't be here long.
>>>
>>
>> Hate to say it, but the troll is starting to win.  People are starting to
>> lose patience with one another.  I think Steve Johnson has been on this
>> list since early days.
>>
>> Any word on Bill?  Is he ok?
>>
>> How long do we suffer the present situation until we reconstitute under
>> something like Google Groups, with Terry or another longtimer as mod? Or
>> should everyone who can't stand the situation add he who shall not be named
>> to a killfile?  If that's the best we can do for now, how to address Abd's
>> pressing concern about having his background and religion subject to
>> constant assault on this list?
>>
>> Eric
>>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:something to consider

[James Bowery]

Sorry but I am not keeping up with this stuff as I long ago set my Gmail
filter to delete all vortex-l messages that contain the string "jojo".

I would guess that Abd is a muslim and Jojo is anti-muslim or something.

I invite them, and anyone else who wants to politicize vortex-l to
contribute, not anonymously, to my site:

http://sortocracy.org

Its radical in the extreme but then we have extreme political problems.

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 12:02 AM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> I am starting this as a new thread because many people are starting to
> skip entire threads.  See my questions below.
>
> I wrote "If that's the best we can do for now, how to address Abd's
> pressing concern about having his background and religion subject to
> constant assault on this list?"  But really this is a concern that pertains
> to all of us.  We need a list that is hospitable to all people who can make
> a competent contribution.  (I do not mean *everybody*.  I do not mind in
> the slightest if list mods take action to make the list quite inhospitable
> to those who for whatever reason are too immature to contribute much of
> value.)
>
> Think about what you would do if you were in Abd's situation.  Perhaps you
> would just abide the assault quietly.  Perhaps you would leave the list.
>  But that would not make the environment any more hospitable for others in
> shoes similar to yours.  You may not respond in the way that Abd has.  But
> we should appreciate that he's being put in a very awkward position and
> that he has broader interests in mind.
>
> Eric
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Oh, I'm quivering, shaking with the possibility that *Jed Rothwell* might
>>> filter me out.
>>>
>>> I am not going to subscribe to VortexB-l. This is supposedy a moderated
>>> list. If it stays unmoderated, I won't be here long.
>>>
>>
>> Hate to say it, but the troll is starting to win.  People are starting to
>> lose patience with one another.  I think Steve Johnson has been on this
>> list since early days.
>>
>> Any word on Bill?  Is he ok?
>>
>> How long do we suffer the present situation until we reconstitute under
>> something like Google Groups, with Terry or another longtimer as mod? Or
>> should everyone who can't stand the situation add he who shall not be named
>> to a killfile?  If that's the best we can do for now, how to address Abd's
>> pressing concern about having his background and religion subject to
>> constant assault on this list?
>>
>> Eric
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:something to consider

[Jojo Jaro]

Eric, I forgot to mention. 

What would you do if you are the subject of constant insults and ridicule for 
your views?  Would you not lash out in retaliation?  Your bias is why I grow 
more instransigent each day.  You express "grave concern" that islam may be 
"assaulted" but express no equal concern that I have been insulted time and 
time again here for my beliefs in the Bible.

Well you ask "what you would do if you were in Abd's situation".  Why don't you 
ask another equally valid question. "What would you do if you were in Jojo's 
position."

This problem has a very very very simple solution you know.



Jojo



  - Original Message - 
  From: Eric Walker 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 2:02 PM
  Subject: [Vo]:something to consider


  I am starting this as a new thread because many people are starting to skip 
entire threads.  See my questions below.


  I wrote "If that's the best we can do for now, how to address Abd's pressing 
concern about having his background and religion subject to constant assault on 
this list?"  But really this is a concern that pertains to all of us.  We need 
a list that is hospitable to all people who can make a competent contribution.  
(I do not mean *everybody*.  I do not mind in the slightest if list mods take 
action to make the list quite inhospitable to those who for whatever reason are 
too immature to contribute much of value.)


  Think about what you would do if you were in Abd's situation.  Perhaps you 
would just abide the assault quietly.  Perhaps you would leave the list.  But 
that would not make the environment any more hospitable for others in shoes 
similar to yours.  You may not respond in the way that Abd has.  But we should 
appreciate that he's being put in a very awkward position and that he has 
broader interests in mind.


  Eric




  On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:


On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax  
wrote:


  Oh, I'm quivering, shaking with the possibility that *Jed Rothwell* might 
filter me out.

  I am not going to subscribe to VortexB-l. This is supposedy a moderated 
list. If it stays unmoderated, I won't be here long.


Hate to say it, but the troll is starting to win.  People are starting to 
lose patience with one another.  I think Steve Johnson has been on this list 
since early days.


Any word on Bill?  Is he ok?


How long do we suffer the present situation until we reconstitute under 
something like Google Groups, with Terry or another longtimer as mod? Or should 
everyone who can't stand the situation add he who shall not be named to a 
killfile?  If that's the best we can do for now, how to address Abd's pressing 
concern about having his background and religion subject to constant assault on 
this list?


Eric