Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
On 2011-11-29 13:32, Akira Shirakawa wrote: On 2011-11-29 12:14, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello group, http://www.energeticambiente.it/sistemi-idrogeno-nikel/14742857-novita-cella-piantelli-5.html#post119273029 Roy Virgilio states again and confirms that there are no agreements between the Piantelli group and Defkalion, although he can't say whether Defkalion is in contact with the Univesity of Siena or not. This information however is conflicting with Passerini's and some I had the chance to obtain lately. I guess we will know soon what turns out to be true, anyway. Cheers, S.A.
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
So, it is likely that Piantelli is involved in this, after all: *Piantelli* is working with the *University of Siena* on his Ni-H cell http://ecatnews.com/?p=581 2011/11/29 Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com Hello group, Have a read at this article posted today on NyTeknik. It's about the backstage of tomorrow's Defkalion Announcement: http://www.nyteknik.se/**nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/**article3353181.ecehttp://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3353181.ece A short excerpt: “Let’s say I have the formula of Rossi, but I’m not saying it officially. My scientists found a way to make it. They need three months.” That is what Alexandros Xanthoulis, representative of Defkalion’s owners, told Ny Teknik in a telephone conversation on August 5, 2011. “I know what he’s got in the reactor, I know everything. It was a spectroscopy made by the University of Siena. (...) They tried his reactor without him understanding what they did,” he continued. It's quite interesting, to say the least, that the University of Siena was involved in this, assuming what Xanthoulis said is true. Cheers, S.A. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
On 2011-11-29 12:14, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello group, For what it's worth, Daniele Passerini on a recent comment in his Blog [1] is saying that when Roy Virgilio denied any relationship between Piantelli and DGT, he answered him privately that according to his sources both do have an agreement, but he (Daniele) wouldn't comment publicly about it before this matter got clearer. Today's NyTeknik article according to him gives credit to the information he was given. [1] http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/11/ma-facciamola-finita.html Cheers, S.A.
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
So, if that is confirmed, we can put Piantelli also as a scammer, from the point of view of the hardest skeptics. 2011/11/29 Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com On 2011-11-29 12:14, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello group, For what it's worth, Daniele Passerini on a recent comment in his Blog [1] is saying that when Roy Virgilio denied any relationship between Piantelli and DGT, he answered him privately that according to his sources both do have an agreement, but he (Daniele) wouldn't comment publicly about it before this matter got clearer. Today's NyTeknik article according to him gives credit to the information he was given. [1] http://22passi.blogspot.com/**2011/11/ma-facciamola-finita.**htmlhttp://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/11/ma-facciamola-finita.html Cheers, S.A. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
More like just another snake who needed the spectrum to work out Rossi's key IP. If proven, all involved are just common thieves. AG On 11/29/2011 11:12 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: So, if that is confirmed, we can put Piantelli also as a scammer, from the point of view of the hardest skeptics. 2011/11/29 Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com mailto:shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com On 2011-11-29 12:14, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello group, For what it's worth, Daniele Passerini on a recent comment in his Blog [1] is saying that when Roy Virgilio denied any relationship between Piantelli and DGT, he answered him privately that according to his sources both do have an agreement, but he (Daniele) wouldn't comment publicly about it before this matter got clearer. Today's NyTeknik article according to him gives credit to the information he was given. [1] http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/11/ma-facciamola-finita.html
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
Technically, Rossi still has to prove the I part of the IP, besides, he must show that it is not based on prior art from Piantelli. 2011/11/29 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com More like just another snake who needed the spectrum to work out Rossi's key IP. If proven, all involved are just common thieves. AG On 11/29/2011 11:12 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: So, if that is confirmed, we can put Piantelli also as a scammer, from the point of view of the hardest skeptics. 2011/11/29 Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com mailto: shirakawa.akira@gmail.**com shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com On 2011-11-29 12:14, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello group, For what it's worth, Daniele Passerini on a recent comment in his Blog [1] is saying that when Roy Virgilio denied any relationship between Piantelli and DGT, he answered him privately that according to his sources both do have an agreement, but he (Daniele) wouldn't comment publicly about it before this matter got clearer. Today's NyTeknik article according to him gives credit to the information he was given. [1] http://22passi.blogspot.com/**2011/11/ma-facciamola-finita.**htmlhttp://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/11/ma-facciamola-finita.html -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
That people conspired together to steal the IP / trade secrets says it is not prior knowledge. AG On 11/29/2011 11:33 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: Technically, Rossi still has to prove the I part of the IP, besides, he must show that it is not based on prior art from Piantelli. 2011/11/29 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com More like just another snake who needed the spectrum to work out Rossi's key IP. If proven, all involved are just common thieves. AG On 11/29/2011 11:12 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: So, if that is confirmed, we can put Piantelli also as a scammer, from the point of view of the hardest skeptics. 2011/11/29 Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com mailto:shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com mailto:shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com mailto:shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com On 2011-11-29 12:14, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello group, For what it's worth, Daniele Passerini on a recent comment in his Blog [1] is saying that when Roy Virgilio denied any relationship between Piantelli and DGT, he answered him privately that according to his sources both do have an agreement, but he (Daniele) wouldn't comment publicly about it before this matter got clearer. Today's NyTeknik article according to him gives credit to the information he was given. [1] http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/11/ma-facciamola-finita.html -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com mailto:danieldi...@gmail.com
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
what is more sensible for me is that in the article they pretend that the e-cat cannot be stable for more of 24hour because of the design that create hot-sport in the middle(explanation is credible)... the second most sensible point is that they pretend to have solved the problem, meaning that it can be protected by a different patent... CF cannot be patent, but any new and useful recipe can be... if true Rossi's patent is turned around, or dependent of defkalion's... it looks like what I say about patent race... hard to keep an IP from creative competitors... I just hope that each of them will get reward for their competences, despite their respective weakness... would be a pity if only one survive the battle. but history is not fair. this story, true or scam, is already a fantastic scenario, of the quality of DSK affair. and the characters playing inside are already dign of Shakespeare theater... we are seeing the history of the 21th century being written. 2011/11/29 Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com Hello group, Have a read at this article posted today on NyTeknik. It's about the backstage of tomorrow's Defkalion Announcement: http://www.nyteknik.se/**nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/**article3353181.ecehttp://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3353181.ece
Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
It is still theft. No way to spin it any other way. AG On 11/30/2011 12:29 AM, Alain dit le Cycliste wrote: it looks like what I say about patent race... hard to keep an IP from creative competitors...
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
That's the problem with IP protection through security, leaks are not necessarily theft in a legal sense (the only one that matters commercially). Even if there may be individuals who have signed non-disclosure agreements etc and then leaked info, it is only them and the organisations they work for who are liable, unless the recipient paid them and knew they were breaking such an agreement - inducing breach of contract may be hard to prove if it was cash in brown envelopes. If dekaflion were really crafty then as soon as they knew details they would have published in some obscure bee-keeping newsletter, to prevent Rossi getting any patent filed after that point. Besides which if defkalion know the formula then they can just sell it on to less scrupulous types. Being realistic there is simply no way that Rossi could keep the Genie in the bottle after the world knew it worked - going through his drains or garbage from his work places, collecting dust samples, other surveillance, bugs, examining who his suppliers were, insecure computers and documentation etc. No doubt a number of governments (guess US, Chinese, Russian) and organisations (OPEC?) have already done this. It will be very interesting to see what patents emerge from unexpected sources in the next year. Any one of these govts can also manufacture evidence that they knew about it ages ago, or legislate away any IP issues. Seems to me that unless Rossi has a valid patent filed some time ago (or even if he did) he is almost certainly going to get screwed - which is why his only sensible play was to get a big powerful partner early on. On 29 November 2011 14:09, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: It is still theft. No way to spin it any other way. AG On 11/30/2011 12:29 AM, Alain dit le Cycliste wrote: it looks like what I say about patent race... hard to keep an IP from creative competitors...
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
Here's an extremely interesting item from the linked Nyteknik article: According to Xanthoulis, *Rossi could not run the reaction more than 24 hours*, and when Defkalion required a 48 hour test it supposedly led to a conflict with Rossi. Exactly how do we square this with Rossi's claim that he ran a reactor for *two years*, heating a factory? Does this sound to anyone else that somebody's lying, or will we all agree that Judas hanged himself from a tree, but the branch he hung the rope from broke, he fell on the ground, and his guts burst out, thus dying two different ways simultaneously? On 11-11-29 06:14 AM, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello group, Have a read at this article posted today on NyTeknik. It's about the backstage of tomorrow's Defkalion Announcement: http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3353181.ece A short excerpt: “Let’s say I have the formula of Rossi, but I’m not saying it officially. My scientists found a way to make it. They need three months.” That is what Alexandros Xanthoulis, representative of Defkalion’s owners, told Ny Teknik in a telephone conversation on August 5, 2011. “I know what he’s got in the reactor, I know everything. It was a spectroscopy made by the University of Siena. (...) They tried his reactor without him understanding what they did,” he continued. It's quite interesting, to say the least, that the University of Siena was involved in this, assuming what Xanthoulis said is true. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
On 2011-11-29 16:46, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: Exactly how do we square this with Rossi's claim that he ran a reactor for *two years*, heating a factory? Perhaps they meant that in self-sustaining mode? Just guessing. Cheers, S.A.
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
Or perhaps in very low power. Like, for example, an input of 10W, output of 150W. 2011/11/29 Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com On 2011-11-29 16:46, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: Exactly how do we square this with Rossi's claim that he ran a reactor for *two years*, heating a factory? Perhaps they meant that in self-sustaining mode? Just guessing. Cheers, S.A. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
Akira Shirakawa wrote: Exactly how do we square this with Rossi's claim that he ran a reactor for *two years*, heating a factory? Perhaps they meant that in self-sustaining mode? I believe that's what it means. Obviously they know a reactor ran for 18 hours in one test. I think they are referring to the problem of overheating and thermal run-away. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
On 11-11-29 10:55 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote: Or perhaps in very low power. Like, for example, an input of 10W, output of 150W. That doesn't seem to me to make a lot of sense for a space heater adequate to heat an entire factory. But I suppose you can assume that, if you like, and justify Rossi's claims that way. 2011/11/29 Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com mailto:shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com On 2011-11-29 16:46, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: Exactly how do we square this with Rossi's claim that he ran a reactor for *two years*, heating a factory? Perhaps they meant that in self-sustaining mode? Just guessing. It's certainly not what the quote said, but sure, you can assume the branch broke and they just didn't mention it in the story, if you want to. Cheers, S.A. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com mailto:danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
On 11-11-29 11:03 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Akira Shirakawa wrote: Exactly how do we square this with Rossi's claim that he ran a reactor for *two years*, heating a factory? Perhaps they meant that in self-sustaining mode? I believe that's what it means. Obviously they know a reactor ran for 18 hours in one test. And, obviously, 18 24. I think they are referring to the problem of overheating and thermal run-away. Maybe. It would have been nice if he'd actually said that, but maybe it's what he meant. - Jed
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
Did he ever say entire factory or just heat a factory? :) Or was only his room? Seeing his old tests to McKubre, it should be something below 400W, if that was the state of the art back then. 2011/11/29 Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com ** On 11-11-29 10:55 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote: Or perhaps in very low power. Like, for example, an input of 10W, output of 150W. That doesn't seem to me to make a lot of sense for a space heater adequate to heat an entire factory. But I suppose you can assume that, if you like, and justify Rossi's claims that way. 2011/11/29 Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com On 2011-11-29 16:46, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: Exactly how do we square this with Rossi's claim that he ran a reactor for *two years*, heating a factory? Perhaps they meant that in self-sustaining mode? Just guessing. It's certainly not what the quote said, but sure, you can assume the branch broke and they just didn't mention it in the story, if you want to. Cheers, S.A. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
RE: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
/snip/ Did he ever say entire factory or just heat a factory? :) Or was only his room? Seeing his old tests to McKubre, it should be something below 400W, if that was the state of the art back then. /snip/ In his patent application, he states: [0060] A practical embodiment of the inventive apparatus, installed on Oct. 16, 2007, is at present perfectly operating 24 hours per day, and provides an amount of heat sufficient to heat the factory of the Company EON of via Carlo Ragazzi 18, at Bondeno (Province of Ferrara). United States Patent Application Publication Pub. No.: US 201110005506 Al Pub. Date: Jan. 13,2011
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
He didn't say how much that was heated! But it's weird that he mentions that. It's like he is inviting the patent analyzers to test his device, LOL! 2011/11/29 Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com /snip/ Did he ever say entire factory or just heat a factory? :) Or was only his room? Seeing his old tests to McKubre, it should be something below 400W, if that was the state of the art back then. /snip/ In his patent application, he states: [0060] A practical embodiment of the inventive apparatus, installed on Oct. 16, 2007, is at present perfectly operating 24 hours per day, and provides an amount of heat sufficient to heat the factory of the Company EON of via Carlo Ragazzi 18, at Bondeno (Province of Ferrara). United States Patent Application Publication Pub. No.: US 201110005506 Al Pub. Date: Jan. 13,2011 -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
I think the only device that did not somehow impress the people who attended demonstrations, according to these, was the one shown to Krivit. 2011/11/29 Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com 2011/11/29 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com He didn't say how much that was heated! But it's weird that he mentions that. It's like he is inviting the patent analyzers to test his device, LOL! Nothing we know about this device suggests it was ever shown to the press. Krivit wanted to see it but he wrote that by the time he was ready to ask about it, he was already so disappointed and tired that he didn't bother. Rossi once said, IIRC, that the output was 35 kW. Yet he's always shown much weaker devices except of course the half megawatt demo which really wasn't a demo because nobody saw the data being taken except the engineer who supposedly worked for the perhaps mythical client. It's *all* very puzzling. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
2011/11/29 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com: I think the only device that did not somehow impress the people who attended demonstrations, according to these, was the one shown to Krivit. Maybe it was Rossi who set up Krivit knowing that he supported Piantelli and that Krivit would ultimately look foolish reporting negatively on the eCat. evil grin I rub my hands. T
