RE: [Vo]:FAKES NOT ALL ELIMINATED : Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction
I agree with you. It appears real. We still must remain open to the fact in the subject heading that fakes have not yet been eliminated. From: Peter Gluck Subject: Re: [Vo]:FAKES NOT ALL ELIMINATED : Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction Lots of energy, for many hours- not bad. Peak of energy after start, adds to realism. He cannot and will not make demonstration in a soccer arena before 50,000 fans. He has a source of energy, he has some technical and other problems (patenting, reverseengineeringphobia) he makes smart moves and blunders- it is a quite normal process of development. Peter On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 11:03 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: From: Peter Before going to sleep- I want to ask you, Jones what's non-test? Simply - it is not reliable. This is because it was closed to all but a few chosen viewers and there is a credible way to fake it. Even if you believe it was not faked, it supplies no credible evidence to a physicist (skeptic), therefore it is a non-test -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
RE: [Vo]:FAKES NOT ALL ELIMINATED : Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction
Alan Fletcher wrote: H ... since they don't believe it. maybe I could act as Rossi's agent to collect $1M . Alan - I think someone should actually try this (arrange to be an Agent for Rossi - to collect Randi's prize) . really. On a more sodden note, here is the best Fake alert dreamt-up yet, in terms of the ease of pulling it off - for situation where the E-cat is cooled by a direct connection to the building's water supply, as in Feb. http://my.firedoglake.com/ruthcalvo/2010/12/09/big-downside-to-fracking-flam mable-water/ IOW - all it would take for a dedicated scammer in the Feb testing, in Rossi's factory building, would be to have a remote control switch to a valve connected to the water line from a gas line (it could be far removed from the experiment) such that once Levi gets the device started, and water flowing - the culprit hits the 'remote' allowing a combustible gas into the water. This could be triggered with a cell phone too. The best choice of gas is not methane as seen in the above image but the typical HHO gas from an electrolysis cell which can be hidden a long distance away. It turns to steam but that is where the chimney comes in handy. In your chimney you need to condense all the steam from the HHO with a colder water reflux raising the water temperature to what is seen. About 20 kW electric into one of the Epoch commercial HHO welders would make enough HHO to produce 16 kW thermal heating. Here is where you can order one. http://www.oxy-hydrogen.com/manufacturer/12460/12460.html
Re: [Vo]:FAKES NOT ALL ELIMINATED : Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction
Jones Beene wrote: On a more sodden note, here is the best Fake alert dreamt-up yet, in terms of the ease of pulling it off - for situation where the E-cat is cooled by a direct connection to the building's water supply, as in Feb. Explain how this would work in the systems being sent to Uppsala and Stockholm Universities, and the 1 MW unit he will send to Defkalion. Do you think Rossi will send in a crew to secretly install the equipment needed to add gas to the cell the night before the e-Cats arrive? If he does not do this, his trick will be discovered. So what is the point? The best choice of gas is not methane as seen in the above image but the typical HHO gas from an electrolysis cell which can be hidden a long distance away. It turns to steam but that is where the chimney comes in handy. You do realize that the people testing the system looked into the chimney. The burners and valves required to generate 16 kW would be quite visible. We won't discuss the likelihood of generating 130 kW, since it may cause you to accuse yourself of horrible misbehavior again. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:FAKES NOT ALL ELIMINATED : Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction
From: Jed Rothwell On a more sodden note, here is the best Fake alert dreamt-up yet, in terms of the ease of pulling it off - for situation where the E-cat is cooled by a direct connection to the building's water supply, as in Feb. JR: Explain how this would work in the systems being sent to Uppsala and Stockholm Universities, Who said it would? At best, it only indicates the Feb test is a non-test. JR: Do you think Rossi will send in a crew to secretly install the equipment needed to add gas to the cell the night before the e-Cats arrive? No, I think they will find a COP of about 10 instead of triple that - AS I HAVE STATED FOR THE NTH TIME Jones attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:FAKES NOT ALL ELIMINATED : Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction
Before going to sleep- I want to ask you, Jones what's non-test? I have made many tests, few successful many great failures- but not a single non-test Please define- and tell what has happened? My scenario is that they had a great initial heat peak (not expected( and they had to quench the system with plenty of water. And a small temperature difference. These peaks are a problem. it's an industrial test not a scientific test- such things happen. Surprise! A tube leaked and we were in room with some 500 grams of liquid phosgene, free.. Good stuff for nightmares. Peter On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 10:25 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: From: Jed Rothwell On a more sodden note, here is the best Fake alert dreamt-up yet, in terms of the ease of pulling it off - for situation where the E-cat is cooled by a direct connection to the building's water supply, as in Feb. JR: Explain how this would work in the systems being sent to Uppsala and Stockholm Universities, Who said it would? At best, it only indicates the Feb test is a non-test. JR: Do you think Rossi will send in a crew to secretly install the equipment needed to add gas to the cell the night before the e-Cats arrive? No, I think they will find a COP of about 10 instead of triple that - AS I HAVE STATED FOR THE NTH TIME Jones -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
RE: [Vo]:FAKES NOT ALL ELIMINATED : Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction
From: Peter Before going to sleep- I want to ask you, Jones what's non-test? Simply - it is not reliable. This is because it was closed to all but a few chosen viewers and there is a credible way to fake it. Even if you believe it was not faked, it supplies no credible evidence to a physicist (skeptic), therefore it is a non-test
Re: [Vo]:FAKES NOT ALL ELIMINATED : Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction
Lots of energy, for many hours- not bad. Peak of energy after start, adds to realism. He cannot and will not make demonstration in a soccer arena before 50,000 fans. He has a source of energy, he has some technical and other problems (patenting, reverseengineeringphobia) he makes smart moves and blunders- it is a quite normal process of development. Peter On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 11:03 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: *From:* Peter Before going to sleep- I want to ask you, Jones what's non-test? Simply – it is not reliable. This is because it was closed to all but a few chosen viewers and there is a credible way to fake it. Even if you believe it was not faked, it supplies no credible evidence to a physicist (skeptic), therefore it is a “non-test” -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:FAKES NOT ALL ELIMINATED : Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction
A new version is up at http://lenr.qumbu.com/fake_rossi_ecat_frames_v316.php a) I added the new Swedish interview -comments link b) I added some new fake methods -- particularly Peter van Noorden's water bypass and a couple of quibbles from the Randi forum c) I've reorganized to use frames, with an index panel.
Re: [Vo]:FAKES NOT ALL ELIMINATED : Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction
At 03:34 PM 4/6/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: Because the horizontal arm was NOT inspected unwrapped, we have to assume it contained FAKE material. The 6 hour test was NOT long enough to eliminate all of the fakes. What on EARTH is THAT supposed to mean? The horizontal arm contains a mini-Rossi device. What do you think it contains? Chopped liver?!? (I guess I should make that Ravioli?!?) How do know it was not unwrapped and inspected? This reminds me of the assertion that professors are blindly inserting thermocouples into they-know-now where. Do you know any professors who would do that? We are talking about chairman of the Swedish Skeptics Society! They SAY SO : http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3144960.ece/BINARY/Download+the+report+by+Kullander+and+Ess%C3%A9n+%28pdf%29 Discussion. Since we do not have access to the internal design of the central fuel container and no information on the external lead shielding and the cooling water system we can only make very general comments.
Re: [Vo]:FAKES NOT ALL ELIMINATED : Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction
Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: *Discussion. * Since we do not have access to the internal design of the central fuel container and no information on the external lead shielding and the cooling water system we can only make very general comments. I believe they had access to the external lead shielding. It only takes a moment to remove it. In their report, they said: We had free access to the heater electric supply, to the inlet water hose, to the outlet steam valve and water hose, and to the hydrogen gas feed pipe. That covers everything but the inner sancta sanctorum cell. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:FAKES NOT ALL ELIMINATED : Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction
At 11:43 AM 4/8/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: Discussion. Since we do not have access to the internal design of the central fuel container and no information on the external lead shielding and the cooling water system we can only make very general comments. I believe they had access to the external lead shielding. It only takes a moment to remove it. In their report, they said: We had free access to the heater electric supply, to the inlet water hose, to the outlet steam valve and water hose, and to the hydrogen gas feed pipe. That covers everything but the inner sancta sanctorum cell. What part of NO INFORMATION did I misinterpret? Latest version is at : http://lenr.qumbu.com/fake_rossi_ecat_v315.php v314 got a mention on Randi : http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=7064459postcount=470 Here is another interesting text on the experiment: http://lenr.qumbu.com/fake_rossi_ecat_v314.php H ... since they don't believe it. maybe I could act as Rossi's agent to collect $1M .
Re: [Vo]:FAKES NOT ALL ELIMINATED : Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction
Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: I believe they had access to the external lead shielding. It only takes a moment to remove it. In their report, they said: We had free access to the heater electric supply, to the inlet water hose, to the outlet steam valve and water hose, and to the hydrogen gas feed pipe. That covers everything but the inner sancta sanctorum cell. What part of NO INFORMATION did I misinterpret? You misinterpret information to mean access or sight of. They say they had free access to the inlet water hose and so on. Look at the photo of the device. The components on that list includes everything but 50 ml inner cell. So your analysis should assume that hidden fuel has to fit into that 50 ml. They had free access to everything else. They say they have no information on two things: the lead shield, and the cooling water system. The cooling water system is hidden in there with the cell, under that copper bulge. It is the heat exchanger. Information on the lead shield would be, I suppose, the mass of it or the purpose of it. Even if we assume the shield was not removed, I can see practically everything in Fig. 2 with the lead shield in place. I can estimate the thickness of the insulation. And Fig. 4 shows the whole thing with the shielding removed. So I not see what you are talking about. I refer to the figures here: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/EssenHexperiment.pdf - Jed
Re: [Vo]:FAKES NOT ALL ELIMINATED : Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction
Just to reiterate a little, the report says: Figures 1 and 2 below depict the insulated device used for the experiment together with three spare devices. It is obvious from Fig. 2 how big the pipes under the insulation are. You can peek and see most of them where the H2 valve comes out. Fig. 4 shows the insulated device with the top insulation removed. I do not know if they went ahead and unwrapped the whole thing, but that does not matter. You can see most of it from this photo. You can tell from the thickness of the insulation and the size of the pipes going into the remaining insulation, and the parts of the lower section uncovered, that this is same kind of gadget as the other three spares. It is conceivable that Rossi hid ~100 ml under there instead of 50 ml, but that would have effect on the conclusions. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:FAKES NOT ALL ELIMINATED : Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction
. . . not AFFECT the conclusions. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:FAKES NOT ALL ELIMINATED : Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction
http://lenr.qumbu.com/fake_rossi_ecat_v314.php Preliminary Conclusion: Because the horizontal arm was NOT inspected unwrapped, we have to assume it contained FAKE material. The 6 hour test was NOT long enough to eliminate all of the fakes.
Re: [Vo]:FAKES NOT ALL ELIMINATED : Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction
At 03:34 PM 4/6/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: Because the horizontal arm was NOT inspected unwrapped, we have to assume it contained FAKE material. The 6 hour test was NOT long enough to eliminate all of the fakes. What on EARTH is THAT supposed to mean? The horizontal arm contains a mini-Rossi device. What do you think it contains? Chopped liver?!? (I guess I should make that Ravioli?!?) How do know it was not unwrapped and inspected? This reminds me of the assertion that professors are blindly inserting thermocouples into they-know-now where. Do you know any professors who would do that? We are talking about chairman of the Swedish Skeptics Society! ... which is surrounded by a 2 cm thick lead shield, as stated by Rossi, and wrapped with insulation .. I read As stated by Rossi as He said so and we believed him -- not that he previously stated it but we inspected it They only show pictures of the Vertical arm unwrapped. I will grant, he has deceived himself into thinking Fleischmann and Pons were a flop but I do not think he would be neglect to find out what is inside the lower arm. ps -- Rossi says : Andrea Rossi April 6th, 2011 at 5:50 AM Dear Mr Goran Crafte: We all have been honoured from the attention to our work of Prof. Sven Kullander and Prof. Hanno Essen. They displayed a strong knowledge of the matter and we learnt from them: there was really much to learn, and we did. Their report is very interesting, I repeat the link: http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3144827.ece Warm Regards, Andrea Rossi
