Re: [Vo]:Heat and electricity

[Axil Axil]

LENR is breaking down the protons and neutrons in the nucleus. This
produces electrons and heat as the final product.

Breaking down means causing the proton and neutron to decay to mesons.

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 4:39 PM, H LV  wrote:

> Hi Matt,
>
> The general expectation among Rossi supporters is that he is going to
> supply the world with a super fuel. Among his detractors the general
> expectation is that he is engaged in fraud. However,
> ​I take ​
> Rossi
> ​'s ambiguous remarks as​
>  hint
>  to his supporters that
> ​ ​their
>  expectations
> ​ need an adjustment​
> ​​
> . With this in mind, I think the expectations which inform research into
> "cold fusion" phenomena also need
> ​ an adjustment​
> .
>
> In broad terms, there are three domains of energy research: Energy
> production, energy storage and energy conversion.
> The view of the nucleus as a super fuel places it in the research domain
> of energy production. This view underwrites the claims of "excess heat"
> every time an anomalous heat effect occurs. Every claim of "excess heat" is
> a claim of energy gain, but it is assumed that the energy used during the
> ​_​
> preparation
> ​_
>  of the experiment is irrelevant to the claim of energy gain. However, I
> think the preoccupation with "excess heat" has been blinding us to the true
> significance of the anomalies. The anomalies point to new forms of energy
> storage and conversion instead of a new form of energy production.
>
> ​Furthermore,​ if
>  the overriding aim of all nuclear
> ​energy ​
> research is to give humanity a super fuel then the values of the fossil
> fuel age will just continue under a different name with a different set of
> environmentally unsustainable practices. In order to let go of the fossil
> fuel age a new energy role for the very small
> ​needs to be imagined ​
> that doesn't involve energy production.
>
> (This critique applies to all the variants of the hydrino hypothesis as
> well.)
>
> Harry
>
> On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 6:41 PM, Mats Lewan  wrote:
> > Harry, regarding heat into electricity conversion, Professor Eli
> > Yablonovitch of the University of California seems to be doing some
> > interesting stuff, as a side effect of having found a way to throw out
> > photons with sub bandgap energy from photovoltaics.
> >
> > I’ve seen some hints, like this poster from last year:
> >
> http://www.zeplerinstitute.ac.uk/sites/www.zeplerinstitute.ac.uk/files/yablonovitch_lecture_poster_web_0.pdf
> >
> > "Thus the effort to reflect band-edge luminescence in solar cells has
> > serendipitously created the technology to reflect all infrared
> wavelengths,
> > which can revolutionize thermo-photovoltaics. We have never before had
> such
> > high rear reflectivity for sub-bandgap radiation, permitting
> step-function
> > spectral control of the unused infrared photons for the first time. This
> > enables conversion from heat[iii] to electricity with >50% efficiency.
> Such
> > a lightweight “engine” can provide power to electric cars, aerial
> vehicles,
> > spacecraft, homes, and stationary power plants.”
> >
> > I couldn’t find the full paper though.
> >
> > Mats
> > www.animpossibleinvention.com
> >
> >
> >
> > On 20 Feb 2016, at 19:30, H LV  wrote:
> >
> > A typical goal of energy conversion is to convert heat into electricity
> and
> > to do it as efficiently as possible. However, if the goal is to convert
> > electricity into heat the issue of efficiency also arises.
> >
> >
> > An LED is efficient at converting electricity into light but it is
> > inefficient at converting electricity in to heat. So if you wanted heat
> and
> > only had an LED how would you make it more efficient at producing heat?
> >
> > Harry
> >
> >
>

Re: [Vo]:Heat and electricity

[H LV]

Hi Matt,

The general expectation among Rossi supporters is that he is going to
supply the world with a super fuel. Among his detractors the general
expectation is that he is engaged in fraud. However,
​I take ​
Rossi
​'s ambiguous remarks as​
 hint
 to his supporters that
​ ​their
 expectations
​ need an adjustment​
​​
. With this in mind, I think the expectations which inform research into
"cold fusion" phenomena also need
​ an adjustment​
.

In broad terms, there are three domains of energy research: Energy
production, energy storage and energy conversion.
The view of the nucleus as a super fuel places it in the research domain of
energy production. This view underwrites the claims of "excess heat" every
time an anomalous heat effect occurs. Every claim of "excess heat" is a
claim of energy gain, but it is assumed that the energy used during the
​_​
preparation
​_
 of the experiment is irrelevant to the claim of energy gain. However, I
think the preoccupation with "excess heat" has been blinding us to the true
significance of the anomalies. The anomalies point to new forms of energy
storage and conversion instead of a new form of energy production.

​Furthermore,​ if
 the overriding aim of all nuclear
​energy ​
research is to give humanity a super fuel then the values of the fossil
fuel age will just continue under a different name with a different set of
environmentally unsustainable practices. In order to let go of the fossil
fuel age a new energy role for the very small
​needs to be imagined ​
that doesn't involve energy production.

(This critique applies to all the variants of the hydrino hypothesis as
well.)

Harry

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 6:41 PM, Mats Lewan  wrote:
> Harry, regarding heat into electricity conversion, Professor Eli
> Yablonovitch of the University of California seems to be doing some
> interesting stuff, as a side effect of having found a way to throw out
> photons with sub bandgap energy from photovoltaics.
>
> I’ve seen some hints, like this poster from last year:
>
http://www.zeplerinstitute.ac.uk/sites/www.zeplerinstitute.ac.uk/files/yablonovitch_lecture_poster_web_0.pdf
>
> "Thus the effort to reflect band-edge luminescence in solar cells has
> serendipitously created the technology to reflect all infrared
wavelengths,
> which can revolutionize thermo-photovoltaics. We have never before had
such
> high rear reflectivity for sub-bandgap radiation, permitting step-function
> spectral control of the unused infrared photons for the first time. This
> enables conversion from heat[iii] to electricity with >50% efficiency.
Such
> a lightweight “engine” can provide power to electric cars, aerial
vehicles,
> spacecraft, homes, and stationary power plants.”
>
> I couldn’t find the full paper though.
>
> Mats
> www.animpossibleinvention.com
>
>
>
> On 20 Feb 2016, at 19:30, H LV  wrote:
>
> A typical goal of energy conversion is to convert heat into electricity
and
> to do it as efficiently as possible. However, if the goal is to convert
> electricity into heat the issue of efficiency also arises.
>
>
> An LED is efficient at converting electricity into light but it is
> inefficient at converting electricity in to heat. So if you wanted heat
and
> only had an LED how would you make it more efficient at producing heat?
>
> Harry
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Heat and electricity

[Harvey Norris]

I set the Teslafy Wayback (Peabody and Sherman version) lever for five years 
ago and found this...Ferrite Heating Demo 2  Uploaded on Feb 4, 2011 Ferrite 
Heating Demo 2
|   |
|   |  |   |   |   |   |   |
| Ferrite Heating Demo 2 |
|  |
| View on youtu.be | Preview by Yahoo |
|  |
|   |

2.8 DCA & 3.6 DCA 3/8ths width ferrite incandescence with corresponding 3 phase 
AC inputs. The top red meters are stator line amperages and the middle grey 
meters the phase amperages. In three phase for a delta delivery, the stator 
lines contain 1.71 or (sq rt 3) times the phase amperages. Yet at 1:41 in the 
videos the sum of the stator lines @ 8.54A EQUALS the sum of the phase 
amperages. Thus for this example using summed amperages of the phases 
themselves; ~70% more current exists as the effect of RESONANT RISE OF 
AMPERAGE. It is these outer delta AC currents that become the source of the DC 
currents across the ferrite by intervening rectifications of the three phase AC 
source currents. Note that the ferrite also has a non-linear resistance, it 
instead looses resistance with the amount of heat generated. At the start of 
video 25VDC enabled 2.8 A or an acting resistance of 8.9 ohms.  At the ending 
of video 20VDC enables 3.6A or 5.5 ohms. The reactance of the  megacable 
spiralled delivery lines are 2.3 mh@ 465 hz or 6.7 ohms,but their actual 
resistance used in calculating the I ^2R delivery line losses in wattage are 
only 0.5 ohms, where 12.5 watts out of a 72 watt incandescent load are added to 
the circuit as power delivery. This 17.3% power diversion would be minimized by 
decreasing the resistance of the ballasting outer delta series resonances. If 
this were done this would increase the X(L)/R  Q factor, further minimizing the 
stator line currents without diminishing the existing phase currents exhibited 
on the load, and at the same time decreasing the power expended ratio wise 
between the load and those delivery lines. If the phase angles between the 
stator line currents and the phase currents are mathematically formulated by 
the law of cosines, we see that each corner has near a 60 degree phase angle; 
producing the DELUSION that the normal 360 degrees of time separation between 
phasings has been decreased to 180 degrees in total.  Thus due to the fact the 
delta delivery has vector subtracted currents as a sum, and that resonant rises 
of amperage are occuring on both arms of the load: THE ARTIFACT OF THAT TYPE OF 
LOAD IS THE APPEARANCE OF A CONTRACTED TIME CIRCLE BY PHASE ANGLE 
CONSIDERATIONS.  Huh, maybe something is there... Nope now I remember which 
circumstances can be accounted for and this is one of them. If a resonant rise 
of amperage occurs on a delta delivery it produces an artifact appearing to be 
time distortion, but that time distortion can be discounted as unauthentic 
since it can be explained by the resonant rise of amperage on that delta 
delivery. This does not mean however that in that scheme of electrical heat 
delivery that the efficiency must have vastly been increased. I once sent Jones 
some conditioned (strontium) ferrite pieces for radioactivity examination, he 
said there was none. Precendent you tube video on this subject was found and 
labeled tonight for further examination. HDNPioneering the Applications of 
Interphasal Resonances http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/ 

On Saturday, February 20, 2016 4:40 PM, Jed Rothwell 
 wrote:
 

 I wrote: 
Silicon is not a good choice of materials for many cell components such as 
resistors.

CIRCUIT components.
Everything is a cold fusion cell to me . . . To a man who has only a hammer, 
all problems look like a nail.
- Jed


  

Re: [Vo]:Heat and electricity

[Mats Lewan]

Harry, regarding heat into electricity conversion, Professor Eli Yablonovitch 
of the University of California seems to be doing some interesting stuff, as a 
side effect of having found a way to throw out photons with sub bandgap energy 
from photovoltaics.

I’ve seen some hints, like this poster from last year:
http://www.zeplerinstitute.ac.uk/sites/www.zeplerinstitute.ac.uk/files/yablonovitch_lecture_poster_web_0.pdf

"Thus the effort to reflect band-edge luminescence in solar cells has 
serendipitously created the technology to reflect all infrared wavelengths, 
which can revolutionize thermo-photovoltaics.  We have never before had such 
high rear reflectivity for sub-bandgap radiation, permitting step-function 
spectral control of the unused infrared photons for the first time.  This 
enables conversion from heat[iii] to electricity with >50% efficiency.  Such a 
lightweight “engine” can provide power to electric cars, aerial vehicles, 
spacecraft, homes, and stationary power plants.”

I couldn’t find the full paper though. 

Mats
www.animpossibleinvention.com 



> On 20 Feb 2016, at 19:30, H LV  wrote:
> 
> A typical goal of energy conversion is to convert heat into electricity and 
> to do it as efficiently as possible. However, if the goal is to convert 
> electricity into heat the issue of efficiency also arises.
> 
> 
> An LED is efficient at converting electricity into light but it is 
> inefficient at converting electricity in to heat. So if you wanted heat and 
> only had an LED how would you make it more efficient at producing heat?
> 
> Harry

Re: [Vo]:Heat and electricity

[H LV]

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> H LV  wrote:
>
> In my question I said if you only had an LED. That implies a resistor is
>> not available.
>>
>
> Well, in that case, you simply prevent any light from leaving the LED.
> Cover it with something. Then put it in a box with a very sensitive light
> meter to conform that nothing is escaping from it.
>
> You can generate heat from a mechanical device such a wind-up toy with
> similar methods. That is a classic 19th century experiment.
>
> I don't see how this would arise in the real world, but perhaps it might.
> Similar problems arose with the development of silicon integrated circuits.
> Silicon is not a good choice of materials for many cell components such as
> resistors. It had to be used, because it is a semiconductor, but it did not
> lend itself to that purpose.
>
> - Jed
>
>
​Suppose Rossi's Ecat is an inefficient heater, which he made more
efficient by employing electrical, magnetic and temperature tricks.
It still might be remarkable if it involves nuclear activity of some sort.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Heat and electricity

[Jed Rothwell]

I wrote:


> Silicon is not a good choice of materials for many cell components such as
> resistors.
>

CIRCUIT components.

Everything is a cold fusion cell to me . . . To a man who has only a
hammer, all problems look like a nail.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Heat and electricity

[Jed Rothwell]

H LV  wrote:

In my question I said if you only had an LED. That implies a resistor is
> not available.
>

Well, in that case, you simply prevent any light from leaving the LED.
Cover it with something. Then put it in a box with a very sensitive light
meter to conform that nothing is escaping from it.

You can generate heat from a mechanical device such a wind-up toy with
similar methods. That is a classic 19th century experiment.

I don't see how this would arise in the real world, but perhaps it might.
Similar problems arose with the development of silicon integrated circuits.
Silicon is not a good choice of materials for many cell components such as
resistors. It had to be used, because it is a semiconductor, but it did not
lend itself to that purpose.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Heat and electricity

[H LV]

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 3:58 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 1:30 PM, H LV  wrote:
>
>
>>  In my question I said if you only had an LED. That implies a resistor is
>> not available.
>>
>
> One thought is to surround the LED by a material that emits a blackbody
> spectrum. That 10 W that goes to light the LED will be perfectly converted
> to the blackbody spectrum.
>
>
​​I thought of painting the LED black  which is a crude way of altering the
spectrum.



> There's a remaining ambiguity about what "heat" means. It's often used
> synonymously with "energy." But energy can be radiated or transmitted with
> a nonthermal spectrum, while one expects heat to have a thermal spectrum.
>
>
​There might be more sophisticated ways of altering the spectrum through
the application of magnetic fields and/or by varying the electrical input.
Maybe the ambient temperature could have an effect as well.

Harry​

Re: [Vo]:Heat and electricity

[Eric Walker]

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 1:30 PM, H LV  wrote:


>  In my question I said if you only had an LED. That implies a resistor is
> not available.
>

One thought is to surround the LED by a material that emits a blackbody
spectrum. That 10 W that goes to light the LED will be perfectly converted
to the blackbody spectrum.

There's a remaining ambiguity about what "heat" means. It's often used
synonymously with "energy." But energy can be radiated or transmitted with
a nonthermal spectrum, while one expects heat to have a thermal spectrum.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Heat and electricity

[H LV]

In my question I said if you only had an LED. That implies a resistor is
not available.

Whether or not something is valued as a tool depends on the situation and
the user. A blind man will not value an LED as a tool for illuminating a
braille book.



Harry

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 1:56 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> H LV  wrote:
>
> An LED is efficient at converting electricity into light but it is
>> inefficient at converting electricity in to heat. So if you wanted heat and
>> only had an LED how would you make it more efficient at producing heat?
>>
>
> You wouldn't! Use a resistor. It converts 100% of the electricity into
> heat. Nothing can be more efficient than that.
>
> Perhaps I misunderstand the question, but this seems like asking how to
> use hammer in place of screwdriver. It is a bad idea. Although after
> stripping several wood screws while assembling a shelf, my father once
> picked up a hammer and pounded them down, saying "this is what we call a
> Chicago screw driver."
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Heat and electricity

[Jed Rothwell]

H LV  wrote:

An LED is efficient at converting electricity into light but it is
> inefficient at converting electricity in to heat. So if you wanted heat and
> only had an LED how would you make it more efficient at producing heat?
>

You wouldn't! Use a resistor. It converts 100% of the electricity into
heat. Nothing can be more efficient than that.

Perhaps I misunderstand the question, but this seems like asking how to use
hammer in place of screwdriver. It is a bad idea. Although after stripping
several wood screws while assembling a shelf, my father once picked up a
hammer and pounded them down, saying "this is what we call a Chicago screw
driver."

- Jed