RE: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
From Robin, ... Regarding the hydrino theory, my first impression would be to conclude (with absolutely no math to back this conclusion up with) that not enough hydrogen was consumed (into hydrinos) that would explain the massive amount of heat recorded. I hope someone can clarify whether my uneducated assumption on this point is valid or not. (I suspect it's incorrect.) The maximum amount of energy obtainable from Hydrino formation is, not coincidentally, exactly half the mass energy of an electron, i.e. 255 keV/H atom. Maximally shrinking 0.11 gm of H2 would therefore yield 752 kWh of energy, about ~30 times what was actually measured. Furthermore the calculation of the amount of Hydrogen measured assumes that none was absorbed by the Ni during filling of the reactor, which probably isn't true. IOW there may actually have been more than 0.11 gm of H present in the reactor. Woah! ...~30 times what was measured. Did I read that correctly? You're theorizing that hydrino formation can't be entirely ruled out as the source of the heat? I seem to recall that might contradict something Jones theorized in a previous post? Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
In reply to OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson's message of Thu, 7 Apr 2011 07:38:42 -0500: Hi, [snip] Maximally shrinking 0.11 gm of H2 would therefore yield 752 kWh of energy, about ~30 times what was actually measured. Furthermore the calculation of the amount of Hydrogen measured assumes that none was absorbed by the Ni during filling of the reactor, which probably isn't true. IOW there may actually have been more than 0.11 gm of H present in the reactor. Woah! ...~30 times what was measured. Did I read that correctly? Yes. You're theorizing that hydrino formation can't be entirely ruled out as the source of the heat? Not only can't it be ruled out, I think it is very likely the case given the magical level of 24. In fact I suspect the mechanism is as follows: A fast particle splits a Hydrino molecule into two Hydrinos. Since these are in intimate contact with metals, they rapidly each acquire a free electron forming Hy-. Each of these then eventually migrates to the surface of the metal where it reacts with a neutral Hydrogen atom (in the ground state; such as is likely to be found on the surface of Ni), expelling a fast electron as the Hydrino molecule is formed. (The electron that gets expelled is the ground state electron of the Hydrogen atom). Because the Hy- is small, heavy, and negatively charged, this process is analogous to the formation of muonic molecules from ordinary Hydrogen. The binding energy of a level 24 Hydrino with a proton is 8000 eV, so there is plenty of energy available to strip the electron from a Hydrogen atom (and send it on it's way with more than enough energy to split other Hydrino molecules). Because level 24 is the smallest Hydrino than can still form a Hydride, this mechanism though a very fast means of producing Hydrinos at level 24 can't produce Hydrinos any smaller than this. At level 24 the energy required to split a molecule is about 1.2 keV / Hydrino, while the energy obtained from creating a new Hydrino is about 8 keV). These two figures combined yield a ratio of about 7, which may explain why Rossi wants to configure his reactor with an amplification factor of about 8. ;) The fast amplification mechanism, combined with the restriction to level 24 ensure that eventually the vast majority of Hydrinos present are at this level. BTW at 8 keV / H, the oceans of the Earth would supply all our energy needs at the current rate of use for 263 billion years. :) (Perhaps needless to say, we will no longer be around to enjoy it, nor will the Earth itself, which is due to be vaporized by a red giant Sun in about 5 billion years time.) [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
RE: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
From Jones: ... ... There is a mundane explanation for both copper and iron so why invent a reaction that does not exist? And that speculated mundane explanation is... Out with it! Hydrinos? Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
Passing to Kullander a well shaked mix of ni and cu powder ? Too easy ? Just mixing ni and cu powder and giving it to *Kullander for the * On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 2:41 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: From Jones: ... ... There is a mundane explanation for both copper and iron so why invent a reaction that does not exist? And that speculated mundane explanation is... Out with it! Hydrinos? Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
The mundane reason for the appearance of iron an copper is electromigration. This is actually expected. Copper and iron are both found in the apparatus and they migrate to the powder. For it to be otherwise, an isotopic imbalance must be present. Even hydrinos would result in an isotopic imbalance. J. From: Andrea Selva Passing to Kullander a well shaked mix of ni and cu powder ? Too easy ? Just mixing ni and cu powder and giving it to Kullander ? Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: ... There is a mundane explanation for both copper and iron so why invent a reaction that does not exist? And that speculated mundane explanation is... Out with it! Hydrinos?
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
On the pictures in the article: http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3144960.ece/BINARY/Download+the+report+by+Kullander+and+Ess%C3%A9n+%28pdf%29 ) it is seen that the copper tubes are corroded from the outside , probably due to the high temperature of the reaction. As Jones says it is very likely that he copper (and steel) migrate from the outside to the nickelpowder which is inside of the reaction chamber. This would explain why a lot of Copper is found. I once noticed that when I was using a copper vessel which was plated with steel on the outside that the vessel got a copper coulor when it was accidentally heated to 300 C. The heat releasing reaction from the Ecat looks like the effect which is seen during the use of Raney nickel ( or TiC WC and other compounds) in combination with Mills catalysts and hydrogen. No transmutations are seen, only upfield shifted NMR peaks of the hydrogencompounds in the reactionproduct which have a very narrow resonance peak. This could indicate that these species have a low probablity to interact with the environment after being formed, which is not at odds with the hydrino concept. Peter van Noorden - Original Message - From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 2:20 PM Subject: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper -Original Message- From: SHIRAKAWA Akira Thank you for posting this but for the record, the conclusions of Kullander are wrong. Not just wrong but irresponsible and foolish. First he says: Analyses of the nickel powder used in Rossi's energy catalyzer show that a large amount of copper is formed. The Facts: There is evidence of the presence of copper but that is all. If it were formed by transmutation some of it should be radioactive. In fact there is a mundane explanation for the presence of copper. Sven Kullander considers this to be evidence of a nuclear reaction For copper to be formed out of nickel, the nucleus of nickel has to capture a proton. The fact that this possibly occurs in Rossi's reactor is why the concept of cold fusion has been mentioned - it would consist of fusion between nuclei of nickel and hydrogen. The facts: Yes but if this were the case there would be a wide variation in the balance of isotopes. Element and isotopic analysis showed that the isotopic analysis through ICP-MS doesn't show any deviation from the natural isotopic composition of nickel and copper. The mistakes of Kullander are juvenile and silly. There is a mundane explanation for both copper and iron so why invent a reaction that does not exist? Jones
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: The mundane reason for the appearance of iron an copper is electromigration. Where are the electric fields that would cause electromigration? There are no fields in copper pipes as far as I know. Kullander does say . . . it’s remarkable that nickel-58 and hydrogen can form copper-63 (70%) and copper-65 (30%). I guess that means they measured the isotopes. They used XRFS and ICP-MS. XRFS measures only elements as I recall, whereas ICP-MS detects isotopes. It would be a little odd if the reaction produced copper with a natural isotopic distribution. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
On 04/06/2011 08:20 AM, Jones Beene wrote: The Facts: There is evidence of the presence of copper but that is all. If it were formed by transmutation some of it should be radioactive. In fact there is a mundane explanation for the presence of copper Dead on. In fact, as I recall, folks on this list were waiting with bated breath for the isotopic analysis of the copper and nickel ash, which was expected to confirm that it's nuclear. Instead, it seems to have done the opposite. All speculation about the reaction taking place is now just that: Speculation. Looks to me like Ni+H fusion has been ruled out, even more conclusively than either unknown chemical reactions or galloping temperature measurement errors.
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
From Jones: The mundane reason for the appearance of iron an[d] copper is electromigration. Seems like a reasonable conclusion to draw. I must apologize for not being sufficiently clear as to what I was really questioning: What is generating the massive amount of heat? I gather the responsible party still remains an unknown quality - especially considering your concluding remark: Even hydrinos would result in an isotopic imbalance. ...which also seems like a reasonable conclusion to draw. Regarding the hydrino theory, my first impression would be to conclude (with absolutely no math to back this conclusion up with) that not enough hydrogen was consumed (into hydrinos) that would explain the massive amount of heat recorded. I hope someone can clarify whether my uneducated assumption on this point is valid or not. (I suspect it's incorrect.) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
On 04/06/2011 10:23 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net mailto:jone...@pacbell.net wrote: The mundane reason for the appearance of iron an copper is electromigration. Where are the electric fields that would cause electromigration? There are no fields in copper pipes as far as I know. Kullander does say . . . it's remarkable that nickel-58 and hydrogen can form copper-63 (70%) and copper-65 (30%). I guess that means they measured the isotopes. He *said* they measured the isotopes. He said, specifically, the ratios for both nickel and copper didn't vary from natural abundances: The isotopic analysis through ICP-MS *doesn't show any deviation from the natural isotopic composition* of nickel and copper. They used XRFS and ICP-MS. XRFS measures only elements as I recall, whereas ICP-MS detects isotopes. It would be a little odd if the reaction produced copper with a natural isotopic distribution. That's a marvelous understatement! And don't forget that the nickel wasn't differentially depleted, either -- its ratios were natural, as well. It's more likely that Levi is in on the gag than that transmutation from nickel to copper produced natural isotope ratios in the ash. The former merely requires the assumption that a few humans are acting unusually stupid (which happens frequently). The latter requires something close to a miracle (and miracles are very rare). - Jed
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
One of the great things about this is that there is so much new information here, it is taking me all morning to read and understand the reports and photos. Usually, when I get a new paper, it is all stuff that I have heard before. It is either a re-hash of previous reports, or a repetition of previous work. Rossi is breaking new ground. There is an awful lot of important information in these reports. You have to dig a little to get it all. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: He *said* they measured the isotopes. He said, specifically, the ratios for both nickel and copper didn't vary from natural abundances: The isotopic analysis through ICP-MS *doesn’t show any deviation from the natural isotopic composition* of nickel and copper. Ah, so he did. I just asked him about this. I wrote to him: It is surprising that the copper has the natural isotopic distribution, Cu-63 70%, Cu-65 30%. In other cold fusion experiments, when cathodes had what appear to be transmuted elements in them, the isotopic distribution reflected the distribution of the starting element. This is particularly clear in papers by Iwamura, such as: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/IwamuraYelementalaa.pdf; It would be a little odd if the reaction produced copper with a natural isotopic distribution. That's a marvelous understatement! My specialty -- thanks. And don't forget that the nickel wasn't differentially depleted, either -- its ratios were natural, as well. Could you detect that? Would enough of it be depleted to make a measurable difference? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
The energy release of the hydrino producing reaction is 50 MJ/mol hydrogen gas. The prefered reactionproduct seems to be H1/4. See http://www.blacklightpower.com/papers/Eng%20Power050410S.pdf So if 25 kWh is produced (90 MJ) this should correspond to 1.8 moles of H2 gas = 3.6 grams. Peter van Noorden - Original Message - From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper From Jones: The mundane reason for the appearance of iron an[d] copper is electromigration. Seems like a reasonable conclusion to draw. I must apologize for not being sufficiently clear as to what I was really questioning: What is generating the massive amount of heat? I gather the responsible party still remains an unknown quality - especially considering your concluding remark: Even hydrinos would result in an isotopic imbalance. ...which also seems like a reasonable conclusion to draw. Regarding the hydrino theory, my first impression would be to conclude (with absolutely no math to back this conclusion up with) that not enough hydrogen was consumed (into hydrinos) that would explain the massive amount of heat recorded. I hope someone can clarify whether my uneducated assumption on this point is valid or not. (I suspect it's incorrect.) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
If the reactor vessel is stainless steel, is the Cu migrating through the walls of the vessel to contaminate the Ni? T
RE: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
-Original Message- From: Steven V Johnson Regarding the hydrino theory, my first impression would be to conclude... that not enough hydrogen was consumed (into hydrinos) that would explain the massive amount of heat recorded. Right on! Steven. You get points for having been thinking about this closely, instead of buying into what others are trying to spoon-feed the audience - and you have seen the problem. This is a critical point. When you compare the amount of hydrogen lost compared to the energy released, it works out to something like 100 keV per proton (but that can vary depending on which Rossi quote you have) ... which is far less than the energy of fusion - at least 1-2 MeV per proton, if it were Ni-H fusion, and far more than Mills typical 27.2-54.4 eV. Now Robin will say this is somewhat consistent with nearly complete shrinkage down to the virtual neutron, but then you should see radioactivity. Not seen. Essentially this is why I concocted the 'quark power' concept presented recently. It is further afield from the mainstream than anything else out there, and admittedly it was invented to match the quirky results of Rossi, and that is its only redeeming value. In this hypothesis one would expect to see disappearing hydrogen with some thermal energy left in the reactor from quark reorganization (into strangelets or dark matter) ... and the remnant energy should be in this range, to be consistent with QCBE (i.e. the range of quantum chromodynamic binding energy) which would be left over from such a reaction. Jones
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Essentially this is why I concocted the 'quark power' concept presented recently. I don't think you can sell the quark power theory to Hawking. :-) T
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
From Stephen ... It's more likely that Levi is in on the gag than that transmutation from nickel to copper produced natural isotope ratios in the ash. The former merely requires the assumption that a few humans are acting unusually stupid (which happens frequently). The latter requires something close to a miracle (and miracles are very rare). Stephen, why is it that when expected results (such as in this latest case, the predicted isotopic shifts don't materialize the way we assume they should) the suspicion of fraud, misinterpretation of the data, and/or collusion once again become the most likely explanations for you. From what I have read there remains a lot of carefully measured heat that can't be explained chemically. Your apparent sudden capitulation would seem to imply that all that carefully measured heat must be fraudulent as well. I so, I suspect many would beg to differ with you on that point. Correct me if I have misinterpreted you, but associating theoretical expectations that suddenly don't pan out as a reason to suddenly invalidate the heat measurements, as you seem to be doing here, strikes me as a defensive tactic, to protect one's psyche from anticipated disappointment. For me, based on the fact that the heat measurements appear to be extremely accurate, the only logical conclusion that I can arrive it is the simple fact that we don't yet have a decent theory as to what is really happening. I can live with such mysteries... for now. A theoretical mystery... what fun! I can live with such mysteries because the heat measurements appear to be very accurate. For me, that's what's important. Fire... Good! Fire is your friend! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
Stephen, Urgent Addendum: Just to be clear on this point, my speculation was pertaining to whether you were now suspicious of the HEAT measurements. In truth I must admit the fact that you seem to be questioning the isotopic shifts, not the actual HEAT measurements. My apologies if I have misinterpreted your intentions. I often misinterpret. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
-Original Message- From: Terry Blanton If the reactor vessel is stainless steel, is the Cu migrating through the walls of the vessel to contaminate the Ni? That is probably net necessary. It looks to me like a copper pipe, for heat transfer, may go into the reactor itself. Plus, if I am not mistaken the patent application says something similar. Jones
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
From Jones From: Terry Blanton If the reactor vessel is stainless steel, is the Cu migrating through the walls of the vessel to contaminate the Ni? That is probably net necessary. It looks to me like a copper pipe, for heat transfer, may go into the reactor itself. Plus, if I am not mistaken the patent application says something similar. Makes me wonder if some other metal other than copper could be substituted, for testing purposes. Wouldn't that be reasonably easy to do? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton If the reactor vessel is stainless steel, is the Cu migrating through the walls of the vessel to contaminate the Ni? That is probably net necessary. It looks to me like a copper pipe, for heat transfer, may go into the reactor itself. Plus, if I am not mistaken the patent application says something similar. You might be right; however, I see a stainless steel coupling and valve for H2 injection and the reactor vessel is stated to be SS. Granted there could be a Cu coupling in there somewhere; but, I'm in the stands, not on the play ground. T
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
Indeed from the link provided Akira it says: The reactor itself, which is loaded with the nickel powder and secret catalysts pressurized with hydrogen, has an estimated volume of 50 cubic centimeters (3.2 cubic inches). The reactor is made of stainless steel. Harry - Original Message From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, April 6, 2011 10:53:18 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper If the reactor vessel is stainless steel, is the Cu migrating through the walls of the vessel to contaminate the Ni? T
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
the Cu would have to go through the water and then through the stainless steel to get to the powder. Dennis C -- From: Harry Veeder hlvee...@yahoo.com Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 4:11 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper Indeed from the link provided Akira it says: The reactor itself, which is loaded with the nickel powder and secret catalysts pressurized with hydrogen, has an estimated volume of 50 cubic centimeters (3.2 cubic inches). The reactor is made of stainless steel. Harry - Original Message From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, April 6, 2011 10:53:18 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper If the reactor vessel is stainless steel, is the Cu migrating through the walls of the vessel to contaminate the Ni? T
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
On 04/06/2011 11:28 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: From Stephen ... It's more likely that Levi is in on the gag than that transmutation from nickel to copper produced natural isotope ratios in the ash. The former merely requires the assumption that a few humans are acting unusually stupid (which happens frequently). The latter requires something close to a miracle (and miracles are very rare). Stephen, why is it that when expected results (such as in this latest case, the predicted isotopic shifts don't materialize the way we assume they should) the suspicion of fraud, misinterpretation of the data, and/or collusion once again become the most likely explanations for you. They don't. I wasn't clear. I didn't mean to pick specifically on fraud. I was merely pointing out that this shoots a big hole in the assumptions that underpin the conclusion that it's nuclear. Let me reiterate. * We've been told that after long operation, up to 30% of the nickel has been found replaced with copper. * In this particular case, about 10% of the nickel was apparently replaced with copper. * The assumed mechanism for the appearance of the copper was Ni+H - Cu * The assumed nuclear reaction in the device, which was assumed to be the reaction generating the energy, was also Ni+H-Cu. * If it's nuclear, as widely assumed on this list, then the reaction, as I just said, has been *assumed* to be Ni+H-Cu. * If that's what's going on, then we can expect with just about 100% certainty that the copper won't have the natural isotope ratios, and the remaining nickel also won't have the natural isotope ratios. * But they do. Obvious conclusion: If the isotope test was done correctly, then the reaction is almost certainly *not nuclear* -- or is, at any rate, *not* the assumed reaction: Ni+H-Cu. My point was that the certainty that it is *not* nuclear, if the measured isotope ratios are correct, seems far more solid than the certainty that... * it isn't chemical * no fraud took place * the steam was dry * the temperature of the tap water used in the second test was stable while it wasn't being measured * the thermocouples were properly calibrated * the pump was working properly with advertised pumping volume in the first published test * the hydrogen tank was weighed correctly * the World Trade Center was brought down by airplanes * George Bush won his second election with an honest majority of the popular vote * Elvis really is dead These are just a few things which seem *less* certain than the conclusion that the reaction is *not nuclear*, if the isotope ratios are dead-even natural. OTOH I suppose we can assume that lots of copper migrated, a little nickel transmuted, and the isotope test wasn't sensitive enough to pick up the tiny bit which actually did transmute. To check that, it would be necessary to determine how much transmuted copper would need to be found in order to account for the generated energy, and see if there was way, way, /way/ too much copper for the energy produced. If there was, then the isotope test results are irrelevant. But if there wasn't, then we're back to square 1. Whatever, take it or leave it ... Jones has gone much farther along this road already, and I am once again all out of time to post.
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Wed, 6 Apr 2011 06:09:13 -0700: Hi, [snip] Even hydrinos would result in an isotopic imbalance. Actually, the ratio of Ni62/Ni64 is about the same as the ratio of Cu63/Cu65, so adding a proton to Ni62 to give Cu63 and to Ni64 to give Cu65 would automatically produce Cu in it's natural abundance ratio (almost). However there isn't enough Ni62/Ni64 in Ni to account for a 10% conversion. (Only about 5%). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Wed, 6 Apr 2011 10:23:32 -0400: Hi, [snip] Where are the electric fields that would cause electromigration? There are no fields in copper pipes as far as I know. ...different metals form junctions. Two junctions at different temperatures will form a thermocouple, and thermocouple currents can be very large in ordinary metals (hundreds to thousands of amps). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
In reply to Stephen A. Lawrence's message of Wed, 06 Apr 2011 22:25:21 -0400: Hi, [snip] OTOH I suppose we can assume that lots of copper migrated, a little The problem with this is that the actual container holding the Ni is made of steel, not copper. The Copper is a second outer container forming the outside of a water jacket if I understand correctly. Hence there are only three possible sources of Cu: 1) The welds in the steel container. 2) Transmutation. 3) Fraud. (or misdirection if you prefer). I doubt there would be enough Cu in the welds to account for the Cu found in the Ni, and if a large amount of it migrated, then I would expect the container to fail (perhaps that's one of the problems he's been having?) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
In reply to OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson's message of Wed, 6 Apr 2011 09:30:21 -0500: Hi, [snip] Regarding the hydrino theory, my first impression would be to conclude (with absolutely no math to back this conclusion up with) that not enough hydrogen was consumed (into hydrinos) that would explain the massive amount of heat recorded. I hope someone can clarify whether my uneducated assumption on this point is valid or not. (I suspect it's incorrect.) The maximum amount of energy obtainable from Hydrino formation is, not coincidentally, exactly half the mass energy of an electron, i.e. 255 keV/H atom. Maximally shrinking 0.11 gm of H2 would therefore yield 752 kWh of energy, about ~30 times what was actually measured. Furthermore the calculation of the amount of Hydrogen measured assumes that none was absorbed by the Ni during filling of the reactor, which probably isn't true. IOW there may actually have been more than 0.11 gm of H present in the reactor. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
In reply to P.J van Noorden's message of Wed, 6 Apr 2011 16:46:27 +0200: Hi, [snip] The energy release of the hydrino producing reaction is 50 MJ/mol hydrogen gas. The prefered reactionproduct seems to be H1/4. See http://www.blacklightpower.com/papers/Eng%20Power050410S.pdf So if 25 kWh is produced (90 MJ) this should correspond to 1.8 moles of H2 gas = 3.6 grams. Peter van Noorden This assumes that the reaction stops at H1/4, which is not necessarily the case. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Wed, 6 Apr 2011 07:59:15 -0700: Hi, [snip] When you compare the amount of hydrogen lost compared to the energy released, it works out to something like 100 keV per proton (but that can vary depending on which Rossi quote you have) ... which is far less than the energy of fusion - at least 1-2 MeV per proton, if it were Ni-H fusion, and far more than Mills typical 27.2-54.4 eV. For the third experiment, the numbers are 0.11 gm H2 25 kWh. This works out at 8.48 keV/ H which equates to level 25 Hydrinos. The interesting thing here is that level 24 is the smallest possible Hydrinohydride according to Mills, so this may provide a clue as to the mechanism involved. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
