Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC How to survive a robot uprising
Just make sure you are an engineer - will need someone to design and maintain all of the killing machines. On 28 October 2012 23:31, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: I thought I had seen this before. This must be where I first saw the video. ;) Eric
Re: [Vo]:Home made data logging ammeter
Some things can be handled with scilab + xcos http://www.scilab.org/products/xcos http://spoken-tutorial.org/wiki/index.php/DAQ If you do not need RT signal analysis, consider spitting data acquisition and data analysis. Most loggers today have large memory or at least async data communication backed by a memory buffer. This simplifies setup and reduces costs, but does not give you RT and is not good for time critical applications. If you need RT signal processing and control you may find useful XCOS (above), SCICOS http://www.scicos.org/ or recently with OpenRTDynamics http://openrtdynamics.sourceforge.net/bigace/ and the beagleboard ( http://beagleboard.org). Of course much reading and trials compared to a commercial solutions. mic Possibly the software problem is more interesting - I'm surprised there isn't an open source LabView clone effort given all the universities that could benefit. Something that includes a sort of software module buss with well defined interfaces for modules of all types. Or maybe there is something like this and I just missed it. Jeff
Re: [Vo]:New publication on my Blog
Thank you dear Steven! The ways to good music are very tortuous sometimes. For example the aria Mio babbino caro is used in at least 23 movies of very different kinds. i will confess sincerely that my relation with vampires are inexistent, I ignore them- they are criminal parasites and they exist only metaphorically politicians bankers etc.. I have ignored even the great opuses about Buffy and have not bought a single book written by that talented Mormon girlie, Stephenie Meyer. We have Dracula here-Bram Stoker made good ads for him but the tourism business is weak. I am zero in vampirology, sorry. However I have deep respect for the animals that suck blood this is an enrgo-inefficient food full of water. The poor vampire is so heavy after eating well thta it is unable to fly. However it has superfast kidneys and gets rid almost instantly from the extra weight. A miracle of Evolution. No vampire story is so frightenbing as The Horla or Vyi I cited in my Damoc story.Surely they are on the Web. peter On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 12:41 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: Happy Birthday Peter! ** ** And as many more as you want! ** ** My favorite performance from Delibes, is the ever-popular Flower Duet song. ** ** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX-6Ej2lnwgfeature=rellistplaynext=1list=PL71B5CD347E318728 ** ** http://tinyurl.com/97forz9 ** ** I was first exposed to this haunting beautiful song when it was used in a rather interesting seduction scene depicted in the film, “The Hunger” starring Catherine Deneuve, Susan Sarandon and David Bowie. ** ** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ04oERKbZE ** ** http://tinyurl.com/9uek5r4 ** ** (The music starts about 1:50 into the clip. Unfortunately, in order to keep a you-tube “G” rating it cuts out just when things really get interesting!) ** ** Deneuve is a very old vampire who is in the process of seducing Susan Sarandon in order to replace David Bowie who at the time was rapidly ageing. This film haunted me. Actually, at first, I wanted to hate it… absolutely hate it, but half way through the film It won me over completely. ** ** The beauty of Flower Song has stuck with me since. ** ** Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks ** ** -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
[Vo]:Skynet Could be Carbon Based
http://www.kurzweilai.net/carbon-nanotubes-to-replace-silicon-ibm http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/39250.wss Carbon nanotubes represent a new class of semiconductor materials whose electrical properties are more attractive than silicon, particularly for building nanoscale transistor devices that are a few tens of atoms across. Electrons in carbon transistors can move easier than in silicon-based devices allowing for quicker transport of data. The nanotubes are also ideally shaped for transistors at the atomic scale, an advantage over silicon. These qualities are among the reasons to replace the traditional silicon transistor with carbon — and coupled with new chip design architectures — will allow computing innovation on a miniature scale for the future. more
[Vo]:Mischaracterizations of verdict against seismologists.
Mischaracterizations of the L'Aquila Lawsuit Verdict http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.cz/2012/10/mischaracterizations-of-laquila-lawsuit.html On March 31, 2009, in L’Aquila, six days before a deadly magnitude 6.3 earthquake killed 308 people, Bernardo De Bernardinis, then deputy chief of Italy’s Civil Protection Department , and six scientists who were members of a scientific advisory body to the Department (the Major Risks Committee) participated in an official meeting and press conference in response to public concerns about short-term earthquake risks. The public concerns were the result of at least two factors: One was the recent occurrence of a number of small earthquakes. A second factor was the prediction of a pending large earthquake issued by Gioacchino Giuliani, who was not a seismologist and worked as a technician at Italy’s National Institute of Nuclear Physics. The deputy chief and scientists held a short one-hour meeting and then a press conference, during which they downplayed the possibility of an earthquake. For instance, De Bernardinis went so far as to claim that the recent tremors actually reduced earthquake risks: [T]he scientific community continues to confirm to me that in fact it is a favourable situation, that is to say a continuous discharge of energy. When asked directly by the media if the public should sit back and enjoy a glass of wine rather than worry about earthquakes, De Bernardinis acted as sommelier: Absolutely, absolutely a Montepulciano doc. This seems important. . . . . . . in L’Aquila, the government and its scientists seemed to be sending a different message to the public than the one that was received. Media reports of the Major Risk Committee meeting and the subsequent press conference seem to focus on countering the views offered by Mr. Giuliani, whom they viewed as unscientific and had been battling in preceding months. Thus, one interpretation of the Major Risks Committee’s statements is that they were not specifically about earthquakes at all, but instead were about which individuals the public should view as legitimate and authoritative and which they should not. If officials were expressing a view about authority rather than a careful assessment of actual earthquake risks, this would help to explain their sloppy treatment of uncertainties. The case is likely to be appealed, so the current verdict is not the last word. While the verdict rests on finer points of Italian law and jurisprudence, the issues at play are not accurately characterized as a failure to accurately predict an earthquake, or even more broadly as science vs. anti-science. The public responsibilities of government officials and the scientists that they depend upon are too important to characterize in such cartoonish fashion. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Mischaracterizations of verdict against seismologists.
This whole story is an outrage. It is simply dreadful. Are they trying to outlaw science and academic freedom, or are they trying to outlaw mistakes? - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Skynet Could be Carbon Based
-Original Message- From: Terry Blanton http://www.kurzweilai.net/carbon-nanotubes-to-replace-silicon-ibm Carbon nanotubes represent a new class of semiconductor materials whose electrical properties are more attractive than silicon, particularly for building nanoscale transistor devices that are a few tens of atoms across. Electrons in carbon transistors can move easier than in silicon-based devices allowing for quicker transport of data carbon-based, maybe ... in the mean-time: half-and-half ... i.e. silicon-carbide 50 amp MOSFETS in production. http://www.cree.com/power Heck ... The T-4 will need lots of current for tesseractic processing. Not sure how Ah-nald plans to get around the little problem of Judgment Day having past already (April 21, 2011)
Re: [Vo]:Mischaracterizations of verdict against seismologists.
Did you read it? In the process of asserting themselves as the legitimate authorities on local seismological conditions, the seismologists appeared to *minimize* the risk of a major earthquake. One seismologist in an attempt to quell public alarm said the recent cluster of tremors *reduced* the risk of a major earthquake which he knew was unfounded claim. I suspect the government seimsologist were either misinformed about their duties or those duties were not clearly formulated by the government . Unfortunately these scientists are the guinea-pigs for better policy so the sentence should be light. Perhaps the italian equivalent of the minister of the environment should take some of the blame and resign. Harry On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: This whole story is an outrage. It is simply dreadful. Are they trying to outlaw science and academic freedom, or are they trying to outlaw mistakes? - Jed
[Vo]:Piantelli patent filed in 2009, soon granted... Is rossi infriging?
I just found in a comment that piantelli patent : https://register.epo.org/espacenet/application?lng=entab=doclistnumber=EP09806118filter=INCOMING it seems to protect LENR in micro/nanopowder... some cristallography discussion... talking of H- ions... cerium catalyst... https://register.epo.org/espacenet/application?documentId=EQC5GEN97647FI4number=EP09806118lng=ennpl=false It seems it can block Rossi, as far as we imagine Rossi technology. less risk with Defkalion foam technology, but not sure... I would like the opinion of David French...
[Vo]:A Halloween scare for real
Budgerigars have tetrachromatic color vision and one named Puck had a vocabulary of 1728 words.They obviously don't have the brain power or incentive to develop science or civilization but they are sentient. The difference between sentience and intelligence seems blurred.I have long advocated that a good route to AI would be to construct a simple conscious robot.That is to say, one that contained a 3D image of itself and its immediate environment, with all the usual sensors, and that was programmed to explore and learn. I think this is the essence of consciousness. Then it could set about learning in much the same way as a child.This could be speeded up by preloading data such as a dictionary, rules of grammar and the ability to talk, together with basic engineering and science. Access to the internet would be a mixed blessing until judgment was developed. Taking a more evolutionary route than top down programming. The key being the internal image of itself and whatever desires were programmed in.I visualize a secondary image under the control of the robot in which the computer could make and move its own 3D images of objects.This would be a decided advantage over human intelligence.Much easier to write this than the program of course.
[Vo]:LENR-CANR.org down for hours
LENR-CANR has been offline for 3 hours, and it will be another 2 hours or so. Jumpline is upgrading the server. It is unusual to have such a long service outage in this day and age. It isn't the storm that whacked it. Jumpline is in Columbus, OH. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A Halloween scare for real
A design of this nature might be interesting to follow. Why not add the ability to detect when it is injured by some form of pain response? Then add the other senses to allow the machine to experience things that a new child would encounter. Even with these additions, I would not expect a present day design to behave in a manner that remotely resembles a human. Our brain appears to be a massively parallel data processing environment while most computers process one instruction at a time. We need to understand parallel systems far better before tackling the sentient robot challenge. Dave -Original Message- From: a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.net To: vortex-L vortex-L@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Oct 29, 2012 2:28 pm Subject: [Vo]:A Halloween scare for real Budgerigars have tetrachromatic color vision and one named Puck had a vocabulary of 1728 words. They obviously don’t have the brain power or incentive to develop science or “civilization” but they are sentient. The difference between sentience and intelligence seems blurred. I have long advocated that a good route to AI would be to construct a simple conscious robot. That is to say, one that contained a 3D image of itself and its immediate environment, with all the usual sensors, and that was programmed to explore and learn. I think this is the essence of consciousness. Then it could set about learning in much the same way as a child. This could be speeded up by preloading data such as a dictionary, rules of grammar and the ability to talk, together with basic engineering and science. Access to the internet would be a mixed blessing until judgment was developed. Taking a more evolutionary route than top down programming. The key being the internal image of itself and whatever “desires” were programmed in. I visualize a secondary image under the control of the robot in which the computer could make and move its own 3D images of objects. This would be a decided advantage over human intelligence. Much easier to write this than the program of course.
[Vo]:Hurricane Sandy and the cost of the 1960s space program
I recall that in the 1960s many people complained about the cost of the space program. They thought that developing rockets was a waste of money, especially the moon race. The space program brought us weather satellites, communication satellites and the GPS. My guess is that the money we will save in the next few days with this technology will be roughly enough to pay for the entire program. Especially when you factor in the dollar cost of a human life, which an insurance company or government agency calculates in a cold-blooded but realistic way. The Great Hurricane of 1938 caused massive damage across the East Coast and killed roughly 600 people. Most of the casualties were caused because people had no way of knowing the storm was coming, because they had no space-based weather forecasting. The space race also brought tremendous progress in integrated circuits and various other spin-offs. People opposed to scientific and technological exploration should think carefully about this. Unfortunately, they won't. They get all the benefits from technology as those of us who favor progress, even as they kvetch about it. What could be more ludicrous that a person using a computer and the Internet to type essays condemning depersonalized and unnatural modern technology? I am not saying that technology is perfect or that it is harmless, but I say we should be grateful for it. People have no idea how difficult life was in the past. I often wish I could throw them into a time machine and have them spend a month in the year 1800, with a toothache. In other news, my daughter who lives in New York City sent me this: *Hurricane To Do List* The World Watch the weather Channel Pack evacuation kit Buy batteries Grocery shop for dry goods, and by water Watch the weather Channel more Pack the car with essentials Speculate with neighbors about hurricane New York Buy vodka Buy backup cigarettes Conjure potentially viral tweets Plan hurricane party w/ urban tribe Complain Speculate if the hurricane will cancel work Monday Wonder if French press works with no power - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Hurricane Sandy and the cost of the 1960s space program
Jed, The central pressure of that storm is down to 946 mB pressure which says she will be extremely powerful and devastating. It will be the equivalent of an F5 tornado along with a billion tons of water whipping around. It appears to be tracking exactly to the point of the massive sinkhole which opened up on the Erie Canal in July/August that I modeled 5 days ago. The latest doppler image I posted I think is showing the particle's path up to lake Erie. If your daughter is anywhere near the path of the center of that thing I would get her out. Stewart Darkmattersalot.com On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I recall that in the 1960s many people complained about the cost of the space program. They thought that developing rockets was a waste of money, especially the moon race. The space program brought us weather satellites, communication satellites and the GPS. My guess is that the money we will save in the next few days with this technology will be roughly enough to pay for the entire program. Especially when you factor in the dollar cost of a human life, which an insurance company or government agency calculates in a cold-blooded but realistic way. The Great Hurricane of 1938 caused massive damage across the East Coast and killed roughly 600 people. Most of the casualties were caused because people had no way of knowing the storm was coming, because they had no space-based weather forecasting. The space race also brought tremendous progress in integrated circuits and various other spin-offs. People opposed to scientific and technological exploration should think carefully about this. Unfortunately, they won't. They get all the benefits from technology as those of us who favor progress, even as they kvetch about it. What could be more ludicrous that a person using a computer and the Internet to type essays condemning depersonalized and unnatural modern technology? I am not saying that technology is perfect or that it is harmless, but I say we should be grateful for it. People have no idea how difficult life was in the past. I often wish I could throw them into a time machine and have them spend a month in the year 1800, with a toothache. In other news, my daughter who lives in New York City sent me this: *Hurricane To Do List* The World Watch the weather Channel Pack evacuation kit Buy batteries Grocery shop for dry goods, and by water Watch the weather Channel more Pack the car with essentials Speculate with neighbors about hurricane New York Buy vodka Buy backup cigarettes Conjure potentially viral tweets Plan hurricane party w/ urban tribe Complain Speculate if the hurricane will cancel work Monday Wonder if French press works with no power - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A Halloween scare for real
Dave wrote:/I would not expect a present day design to behave in/ /a manner that remotely resembles a human. Our brain appears to be a massively parallel data processing environment while most computers process one instruction at a time. We need to understand parallel systems far better/ /before tackling the sentient robot challenge/. Having a pain response, or something that avoids damage to the robot would probably be necessary.The danger lurks that this could be carried too far without Asimov's three laws.How might it defend itself from being switched off? I implied that it would have all the human senses - and then some.Without emotions, it would indeed be very different from a human. Such a machine would have many processors, with some dedicated to each of the senses, all transmitting summary data to the central processor that was the conscious part with the 3D image.I don't see that part as being particularly difficult.The central processor makes up for the lack of human parallel processing by being extremely fast.
Re: [Vo]:Mischaracterizations of verdict against seismologists.
In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Mon, 29 Oct 2012 10:59:53 -0400: Hi, [snip] Media reports of the Major Risk Committee meeting and the subsequent press conference seem to focus on countering the views offered by Mr. Giuliani, whom they viewed as unscientific and had been battling in preceding months. ...since it appears Giuliani was correct, I wonder if anyone has taken the trouble to ask how he managed to make such a prediction? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Mischaracterizations of verdict against seismologists.
Journalist around the world are comparing those lazy professors to real scientists persecuted in the past. Galileo is the most named. I just remind that Galileo used his intelligence to make *correct* predictions that went against the established Truth , that eventually led him to be sentenced for life. The ones we are talking about here *denied* that there was an increased chance of a strong earthquake even if earth tremors in the area were intensifying their frequency. It seems they did a very poor job in investigating further and also pointing the inadequate level of safety of building especially public ones. It is probable that there have been pressures to play down actual risk by the government of that time. The full document that explains the sentence has not been released to the public, but it looks that this particular vicissitude is the exact opposite of the one of Galileo. mic 2012/10/29 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com Did you read it? In the process of asserting themselves as the legitimate authorities on local seismological conditions, the seismologists appeared to *minimize* the risk of a major earthquake. One seismologist in an attempt to quell public alarm said the recent cluster of tremors *reduced* the risk of a major earthquake which he knew was unfounded claim. I suspect the government seimsologist were either misinformed about their duties or those duties were not clearly formulated by the government . Unfortunately these scientists are the guinea-pigs for better policy so the sentence should be light. Perhaps the italian equivalent of the minister of the environment should take some of the blame and resign. Harry On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: This whole story is an outrage. It is simply dreadful. Are they trying to outlaw science and academic freedom, or are they trying to outlaw mistakes? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:LENR-CANR.org down for hours
Does it go faster now? Did they give you more space? A least some payback for the trouble! mic 2012/10/29 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com LENR-CANR has been offline for 3 hours, and it will be another 2 hours or so. Jumpline is upgrading the server. It is unusual to have such a long service outage in this day and age. It isn't the storm that whacked it. Jumpline is in Columbus, OH. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Piantelli patent filed in 2009, soon granted... Is rossi infriging?
See my response at LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Piantelli-2009-patent-be-granted-4105916%2ES%2E180023153?qid=f0a2390c-0b90-4da1-91f4-1cdd87dbd904trk=group_most_recent_rich-0-b-ttlgoback=%2Egmr_4105916_mSplash=1 On Monday, October 29, 2012, Alain Sepeda wrote: I just found in a comment that piantelli patent : https://register.epo.org/espacenet/application?lng=entab=doclistnumber=EP09806118filter=INCOMING it seems to protect LENR in micro/nanopowder... some cristallography discussion... talking of H- ions... cerium catalyst... https://register.epo.org/espacenet/application?documentId=EQC5GEN97647FI4number=EP09806118lng=ennpl=false It seems it can block Rossi, as far as we imagine Rossi technology. less risk with Defkalion foam technology, but not sure... I would like the opinion of David French...
Re: [Vo]:LENR-CANR.org down for hours
Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote: Does it go faster now? Did they give you more space? I can't tell if it is faster. It is working again, anyway. Just came on. I don't need more disk space. They have limits on bandwidth but they do not monitor it correctly, so they do not know if I am close to the limits. They show far less than I have actually used. I told them this, because I am such as stickler for following the rules. They said thanks for telling us but they did nothing. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Hurricane Sandy and the cost of the 1960s space program
ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: If your daughter is anywhere near the path of the center of that thing I would get her out. I can't get her anywhere. No one in that area is going anywhere. She is in Manhattan, in a place a few blocks beyond where the mayor's evacuation map shows flooding may occur. Her friend who lives in a floodplain is taking refuge in her apartment. I'm sure everyone in Manhattan will be fine, although parts of it have been evacuated. Poor people living in trailer homes are in danger. People living in Manhattan apartment buildings are fine. My father was on Long Island during 1938 storm. Houses and large motorboats in the Freeport docks disappeared without a trace. He said they did find so much as stick from them. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Mischaracterizations of verdict against seismologists.
If prediction of earthquakes were a solid accurate science then perhaps they should be punished, but that is clearly not the situation. No one has been able to reliably make such a prediction with anything that resembles regularity so these poor guys should not be held in too much disregard. I think that it would be prudent to ask ones self how many times has a series of small quakes occurred when a major event did not follow up? Throwing the dice would likely be as accurate as quake science is currently in this field. Anyone is capable of predicting that a major earthquake is going to occur in California soon. The pattern has been established if you look at the behavior of the ring of fire. Should everyone evacuate the area because of the danger? Who should we incarcerate when it happens? Dave -Original Message- From: Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Oct 29, 2012 4:56 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Mischaracterizations of verdict against seismologists. Journalist around the world are comparing those lazy professors to real scientists persecuted in the past. Galileo is the most named. I just remind that Galileo used his intelligence to make *correct* predictions that went against the established Truth , that eventually led him to be sentenced for life. The ones we are talking about here *denied* that there was an increased chance of a strong earthquake even if earth tremors in the area were intensifying their frequency. It seems they did a very poor job in investigating further and also pointing the inadequate level of safety of building especially public ones. It is probable that there have been pressures to play down actual risk by the government of that time. The full document that explains the sentence has not been released to the public, but it looks that this particular vicissitude is the exact opposite of the one of Galileo. mic 2012/10/29 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com Did you read it? In the process of asserting themselves as the legitimate authorities on local seismological conditions, the seismologists appeared to *minimize* the risk of a major earthquake. One seismologist in an attempt to quell public alarm said the recent cluster of tremors *reduced* the risk of a major earthquake which he knew was unfounded claim. I suspect the government seimsologist were either misinformed about their duties or those duties were not clearly formulated by the government . Unfortunately these scientists are the guinea-pigs for better policy so the sentence should be light. Perhaps the italian equivalent of the minister of the environment should take some of the blame and resign. Harry On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: This whole story is an outrage. It is simply dreadful. Are they trying to outlaw science and academic freedom, or are they trying to outlaw mistakes? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Hurricane Sandy and the cost of the 1960s space program
Here is a comment from Slate, saying that the 1938 storm was another superstorm like Sandy: What Happened the Last Time a “Frankenstorm” Hit New York? As New Englanders brace for Hurricane Sandy—the “Frankenstorm” that is expected to reach full intensity Monday evening and Tuesday—history-minded residents have recalled the area’s last monster storm: a Category 3 behemoth known locally as the Long Island Express. Though first sighted off Puerto Rico and expected to make landfall in Florida, the powerful Category 3 storm took a sudden sharp turn north and crashed into Long Island with very little warning on Sept. 21, 1938. The storm claimed 600 lives in the New York area, destroying nearly 9,000 homes and caused $306 million in damage, which would be about $18 billion today. Damage to trees and infrastructure could still be seen around Long Island until as late as 1950. The extent of Sandy’s wrath is still hard to predict. Last year’s Hurricane Irene, which caused a similar spate of panicked preparation, ended up having little impact in New York City, but it did cause massive flooding and up to $15.6 billion of damage in upstate New York, Vermont, and New Hampshire.
[Vo]:Hurricane Sandy and the cost of the 1960s space program
My model for Irene shows that she lost her energetic particle near Stafford, VA. http://www.businessinsider.com/giant-sinkhole-threatens-homes-in-stafford-virginia-2011-9 Sandy's energetic particle will be with her until she hits the Erie Canal area, not too far from where one of her family members took out a section of the Trans Canada highway last week. Stewart Darkmattersalot.com On Monday, October 29, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote: Here is a comment from Slate, saying that the 1938 storm was another superstorm like Sandy: What Happened the Last Time a “Frankenstorm” Hit New York? As New Englanders brace for Hurricane Sandy—the “Frankenstorm” that is expected to reach full intensity Monday evening and Tuesday—history-minded residents have recalled the area’s last monster storm: a Category 3 behemoth known locally as the Long Island Express. Though first sighted off Puerto Rico and expected to make landfall in Florida, the powerful Category 3 storm took a sudden sharp turn north and crashed into Long Island with very little warning on Sept. 21, 1938. The storm claimed 600 lives in the New York area, destroying nearly 9,000 homes and caused $306 million in damage, which would be about $18 billion today. Damage to trees and infrastructure could still be seen around Long Island until as late as 1950. The extent of Sandy’s wrath is still hard to predict. Last year’s Hurricane Irene, which caused a similar spate of panicked preparation, ended up having little impact in New York City, but it did cause massive flooding and up to $15.6 billion of damage in upstate New York, Vermont, and New Hampshire.
Re: [Vo]:Mischaracterizations of verdict against seismologists.
The matter is much simpler than could appear. It's only a simple question. More than 300 people died, because buildings collapsed. Did someone that was regarded as competent and with an official role say that in l'Aquila there was no danger because of possible earthquakes? In Japan an earthquake of that strength would have caused almost no harm, forget about death. Science is non issue here, take the word science out of the context: there was only sloppiness and probably bad politics. If houses and buildings were properly built casualties would have been close to 0. Those are not poor scientists, they were and still are, well (tax) paid officials and experts. Probably they were just afraid to loose their jobs if they went on denouncing the real risks. Probably a greater level of moral of responsibility comes from politics, if it is so they should have explained to the court how they were coerced to down play the danger. Seems they did not or were not able to do so, maybe because the court was constituted by a bunch of idiotic magistrates that believe that earthquakes can be predicted! It takes some times even months to see the full written sentence, then anyone should find there the finest legal details about the court ruling. In any case there is nothing to worry, they have the chance to shed some light and have a favorable ruling in the appeal trial. mic p.s. If there is any California official saying that there is no possible danger related to earthquakes, well you should request him resigning and help him to get mental care . 2012/10/29 David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com If prediction of earthquakes were a solid accurate science then perhaps they should be punished, but that is clearly not the situation. No one has been able to reliably make such a prediction with anything that resembles regularity so these poor guys should not be held in too much disregard. I think that it would be prudent to ask ones self how many times has a series of small quakes occurred when a major event did not follow up? Throwing the dice would likely be as accurate as quake science is currently in this field. Anyone is capable of predicting that a major earthquake is going to occur in California soon. The pattern has been established if you look at the behavior of the ring of fire. Should everyone evacuate the area because of the danger? Who should we incarcerate when it happens? Dave -Original Message- From: Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Oct 29, 2012 4:56 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Mischaracterizations of verdict against seismologists. Journalist around the world are comparing those lazy professors to real scientists persecuted in the past. Galileo is the most named. I just remind that Galileo used his intelligence to make *correct* predictions that went against the established Truth , that eventually led him to be sentenced for life. The ones we are talking about here *denied* that there was an increased chance of a strong earthquake even if earth tremors in the area were intensifying their frequency. It seems they did a very poor job in investigating further and also pointing the inadequate level of safety of building especially public ones. It is probable that there have been pressures to play down actual risk by the government of that time. The full document that explains the sentence has not been released to the public, but it looks that this particular vicissitude is the exact opposite of the one of Galileo. mic 2012/10/29 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com Did you read it? In the process of asserting themselves as the legitimate authorities on local seismological conditions, the seismologists appeared to *minimize* the risk of a major earthquake. One seismologist in an attempt to quell public alarm said the recent cluster of tremors *reduced* the risk of a major earthquake which he knew was unfounded claim. I suspect the government seimsologist were either misinformed about their duties or those duties were not clearly formulated by the government . Unfortunately these scientists are the guinea-pigs for better policy so the sentence should be light. Perhaps the italian equivalent of the minister of the environment should take some of the blame and resign. Harry On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: This whole story is an outrage. It is simply dreadful. Are they trying to outlaw science and academic freedom, or are they trying to outlaw mistakes? - Jed
