Re: [Warzone-dev] videos / briefings / pause 'bug'?
On Wednesday, 20 September 2006 at 19:40, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:25:15 -0400 Christian Ohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >What I meant was the whole data. If we are not allowed to modify and > >distribute that, this project is over (then there is nothing to > >resurrect, just to conserve - and who wants the role of a curator?). > Did this not come up before, or is this more of a issue now since more > people have found the project, and just the Debian guys are the first > to ask more questions about the license? There was a general consensus that we are free to use the data as we want (at least under the conditions of the GPL), > Doing some checking in the logs, to me it seems that there was a > inadvertent GPL violation for the newer map editor that works with a > higher color quality (32 bit versus 16bit) Coyote's hard disk crashed > or something, and lost the source code. Does that matter? I was > reading the GPL FAQ, and it said that if binaries are available and > released, then the source must be with it. Yeah, strictly speaking, that's a GPL violation as well. The problem is, nobody is holding the source back, so it's a corner case. Nobody gains anything from complaining about the missing source, except that the only working map editor we have right now won't be available anymore. > Wonder if any member of the warzone community is a lawyer? Looks like > we need a international lawyer to deal with this stuff. A lawyer will tell you what he's paid to tell you... (At least in ambiguous cases. "If we interpret that passage this way, it'll work out the way we want..." We can do that ourselves.) -- The first half of our lives is ruined by our parents and the second half by our children. -- Clarence Darrow ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] videos / briefings / pause 'bug'?
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:25:15 -0400 Christian Ohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >What I meant was the whole data. If we are not allowed to modify >and >distribute that, this project is over (then there is nothing to >resurrect, just to conserve - and who wants the role of a >curator?). > Did this not come up before, or is this more of a issue now since more people have found the project, and just the Debian guys are the first to ask more questions about the license? Doing some checking in the logs, to me it seems that there was a inadvertent GPL violation for the newer map editor that works with a higher color quality (32 bit versus 16bit) Coyote's hard disk crashed or something, and lost the source code. Does that matter? I was reading the GPL FAQ, and it said that if binaries are available and released, then the source must be with it. Wonder if any member of the warzone community is a lawyer? Looks like we need a international lawyer to deal with this stuff. Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480 Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail https://www.hushssl.com?l=485 ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] videos / briefings / pause 'bug'?
On Wednesday, 20 September 2006 at 12:33, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 08:15:26 -0400 Christian Ohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >On Wednesday, 20 September 2006 at 1:36, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> If not OK, then what, fork the SP & MP/skirmish so we don't have to > >> deal with GPL restrictions that make no sense for this game since > >> everything *should* be covered by GPL, but we can never be 100% > >> sure, since we can't contact anyone who can tell us? > > > >*BINGBINGBING* Wrong. If there is any doubt about the data's license > >(ie. we are not allowed to redistribute and change it), that will > >affect both the campaign and multiplayer modes, so there's no sense > >separating them. If that is the case (and it is highly unlikely, > >since the intention of the source release was the continued > >development of the game), we can stop the whole project. > > > You sure about that? The SP game is the only thing that uses video I > thought? The video playback is a thorn for GPL, since it uses non GPL > content. The rest of the data can be viewed/used with no special > codecs or anything else that might break GPL. Oh, you meant just the videos. I thought you were speaking of the whole data, because you mentioned the uncertainty around it. The video issue is crystal clear, we cannot redistribute any of those not included in the source archive (ie. those that are interesting). The format of the videos doesn't matter, a GPL program can use data that is not GPL (else you couldn't use GPL programs for commercial purposes). Just the whole source code has to be GPL (so until someone writes a GPLed implementation for the RPL video codec, we cannot play them in the GPLed Warzone). What I meant was the whole data. If we are not allowed to modify and distribute that, this project is over (then there is nothing to resurrect, just to conserve - and who wants the role of a curator?). -- You will outgrow your usefulness. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] videos / briefings / pause 'bug'?
On Wednesday, 20 September 2006 at 19:02, Christian Vest Hansen wrote: > 2006/9/20, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > >I really doubt that Eidos/pumpkin (who are now Pivotal)-- > >http://www.pivotalgames.com/index.php?content=warzone&cat=support > >care, but I think the new person to contact would be Jim Bambra, > >Managing Director Pivotal Games. They say 'You can contact us at: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Perhaps we can write up something again, > >and see if they can write a new license that is more clear for the > >GPL legal people so we can move on? > > Give it a shot. > Though I'm skeptic. The question is: Who owns the copyright to Warzone? The README says "Thankyou to Jonathan Kemp of Eidos Europe for permitting the release." So, at that time, Eidos owned the copyright. Now what happened? Did Eidos transfer the copyright to the Pumpkin guys, as Virgil said? (They could have done it, there's no law (yet) that copyrights can only belong to corporations.) Then those are the ones to ask. I'd guess Pivotal has no role in that, other than them being employed there. So, asking Pivotal will only be successful if they actually do know anything about the Warzone affair. But if they don't, they might start assuming things, and that's the last thing we need... -- The politician is someone who deals in man's problems of adjustment. To ask a politician to lead us is to ask the tail of a dog to lead the dog. -- Buckminster Fuller ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] videos / briefings / pause 'bug'?
Am Mittwoch, 20. September 2006 18:03 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 05:42:03 -0400 Dennis Schridde > The legal limbo we are in. Until that is solved to be GPL safe, > then we are stuck not doing anything for the original content that > was given in the original archive. They did include a subset of > RPL stuff, and everything needed to view them. Actually we are not in that limbo because the data is GPL. We are in that limbo because we don't know if it is _not_. > >> I also found out that in the original game, if you hit out a > >> sequence with ESC, then you can only hit the little green circle > >> icon thing before "PAUSE" (displayed) is unpaused. So bug #6734 > >> isn't a bug is it? That fix seems too drastic if the videos > >> come back? Same goes for the other stuff that was killed/tweaked > >> that has to do with videos. While it may be OK now, it will be > >> broken again later when video stuff is put back in. > >Could you give that info on the bugtracker? > I thought once a bug was closed, you can't add comments? You can still write whole books after it was closed. Closed != Locked (like in forums) Closed is just the info for the devs (or QA team or whatever) that the bug has been fixed, is not valid or for other reasons must not be looked after anymore. And if you find this bug to really be still valid, then you can allways reopen it. pgpN0odo3WVat.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] videos / briefings / pause 'bug'?
2006/9/20, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: We just don't know what "as is with no guarantee" means in the legal sense, and if that conflicts with GPL in any way at all? Is this not also one of the reasons Rodzilla & Grimandmandy & Charun & Henrivee & Qamly & Kevin & ?? left the project to move on to their own RTS? Rodzilla got a new job that he is very happy about, and I think he just don't have time to follow the project any more. Qamly has/had a job that kept him away from computers for weeks. He probably found that it was unstable to be as committed as he was, to a project like this when you only have one or two weekends a month to work on it. Kevin is still Kevin. I haven't noticed any change in "activety levels" here ;) I recall hearing something about Grim not wanting to release his artwork under a GPL compatible license, and if he's not with us any more, then this could probably be the reason. I don't recall much about Charun & Henrivee I really doubt that Eidos/pumpkin (who are now Pivotal)-- http://www.pivotalgames.com/index.php?content=warzone&cat=support care, but I think the new person to contact would be Jim Bambra, Managing Director Pivotal Games. They say 'You can contact us at: [EMAIL PROTECTED]' Perhaps we can write up something again, and see if they can write a new license that is more clear for the GPL legal people so we can move on? Give it a shot. Though I'm skeptic. -- "All good software releases were accidents corrected in the next version." ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] videos / briefings / pause 'bug'?
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 08:15:26 -0400 Christian Ohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On Wednesday, 20 September 2006 at 1:36, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >wrote: >> If not OK, then what, fork the SP & MP/skirmish so we don't have >to >> deal with GPL restrictions that make no sense for this game >since >> everything *should* be covered by GPL, but we can never be 100% >> sure, since we can't contact anyone who can tell us? > >*BINGBINGBING* Wrong. If there is any doubt about the data's >license >(ie. we are not allowed to redistribute and change it), that will >affect >both the campaign and multiplayer modes, so there's no sense >separating >them. If that is the case (and it is highly unlikely, since the >intention of the source release was the continued development of >the >game), we can stop the whole project. > You sure about that? The SP game is the only thing that uses video I thought? The video playback is a thorn for GPL, since it uses non GPL content. The rest of the data can be viewed/used with no special codecs or anything else that might break GPL. We just don't know what "as is with no guarantee" means in the legal sense, and if that conflicts with GPL in any way at all? Is this not also one of the reasons Rodzilla & Grimandmandy & Charun & Henrivee & Qamly & Kevin & ?? left the project to move on to their own RTS? I really doubt that Eidos/pumpkin (who are now Pivotal)-- http://www.pivotalgames.com/index.php?content=warzone&cat=support care, but I think the new person to contact would be Jim Bambra, Managing Director Pivotal Games. They say 'You can contact us at: [EMAIL PROTECTED]' Perhaps we can write up something again, and see if they can write a new license that is more clear for the GPL legal people so we can move on? Oh, and finally, since they were from the UK, does the legal terms they had in the readme mean different than what the US laws state? Does it matter? Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480 Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail https://www.hushssl.com?l=485 ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] videos / briefings / pause 'bug'?
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 05:49:00 -0400 Dennis Schridde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Am Mittwoch, 20. September 2006 11:42 schrieb Dennis Schridde: >> Am Mittwoch, 20. September 2006 07:36 schrieb >[EMAIL PROTECTED]: >> > Or was it just that since it can't be played on linux, they >dropped >> > it? Can I reinsert the code that was dropped ? What about >convert >> > the .dlls via wine to .so files? That OK? >PS: You can't convert .dll to .so, at least I don't know of such a >way. >Doing it anyway would break copyrights as those .dlls are not >released under >the GPL. >If they were you could think about compiling them with winelib. >But they are >not, so no further discussion needed. > >--Dennis We don't know what *any* of the data was released as though correct? "as is with no guarantee" Means what? "as is" don't modify it then? Then Christian's point of wav converted to ogg is valid. The source code did have the explicit GPL notice, so that is OK. The original compile stuff has references to the RPL dlls, so since those are needed to compile as the authors intended, then that mixes GPL + (c) stuff? This is what I mean by GPL restrictions. I guess we can tell that Alex released the stuff on his own, with little (if any) help from a lawyer. Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480 Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail https://www.hushssl.com?l=485 ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] videos / briefings / pause 'bug'?
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 05:42:03 -0400 Dennis Schridde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Am Mittwoch, 20. September 2006 07:36 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: >> No, it isn't the one you all think it is. :p >> >> The original archive also has all the required .dlls >> Dec130.dll , edec.dll, winsdec.dll, winstr.dll and of course the >> code to play the .rpl files. I assume the people that did >> converting did this on linux, and there wasn't any windows >coders >> right? What I mean is, if the original code worked fine for >> windows, then why was it removed? >> >> Was it a GPL issue by not having, or maybe not distrbuting the >.dll >> files that are needed to play the .rpls? They are (c) Eidos, >but >> does that make a difference? >> >> Or was it just that since it can't be played on linux, they >dropped >> it? Can I reinsert the code that was dropped ? What about >convert >> the .dlls via wine to .so files? That OK? >RPL won't come back. And there won't be a Windows only solution >either. At >least not by me. > I was saying what the issue was about RPL though? Was it because of GPL or something else? >> If not OK, then what, fork the SP & MP/skirmish so we don't have >to >> deal with GPL restrictions that make no sense for this game >since >> everything *should* be covered by GPL >Tell me what restrictions make no sense and you may create as many >forks as >you want. The legal limbo we are in. Until that is solved to be GPL safe, then we are stuck not doing anything for the original content that was given in the original archive. They did include a subset of RPL stuff, and everything needed to view them. > >> I also found out that in the original game, if you hit out a >> sequence with ESC, then you can only hit the little green circle >> icon thing before "PAUSE" (displayed) is unpaused. So bug #6734 >> isn't a bug is it? That fix seems too drastic if the videos >come >> back? Same goes for the other stuff that was killed/tweaked >that >> has to do with videos. While it may be OK now, it will be >broken >> again later when video stuff is put back in. >Could you give that info on the bugtracker? > >--Dennis I thought once a bug was closed, you can't add comments? Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480 Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail https://www.hushssl.com?l=485 ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] videos / briefings / pause 'bug'?
On Wednesday, 20 September 2006 at 1:36, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > If not OK, then what, fork the SP & MP/skirmish so we don't have to > deal with GPL restrictions that make no sense for this game since > everything *should* be covered by GPL, but we can never be 100% > sure, since we can't contact anyone who can tell us? *BINGBINGBING* Wrong. If there is any doubt about the data's license (ie. we are not allowed to redistribute and change it), that will affect both the campaign and multiplayer modes, so there's no sense separating them. If that is the case (and it is highly unlikely, since the intention of the source release was the continued development of the game), we can stop the whole project. -- I don't have any use for bodyguards, but I do have a specific use for two highly trained certified public accountants. -- Elvis Presley ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] videos / briefings / pause 'bug'?
Am Mittwoch, 20. September 2006 11:42 schrieb Dennis Schridde: > Am Mittwoch, 20. September 2006 07:36 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > Or was it just that since it can't be played on linux, they dropped > > it? Can I reinsert the code that was dropped ? What about convert > > the .dlls via wine to .so files? That OK? PS: You can't convert .dll to .so, at least I don't know of such a way. Doing it anyway would break copyrights as those .dlls are not released under the GPL. If they were you could think about compiling them with winelib. But they are not, so no further discussion needed. --Dennis pgpbK8d1wxyDu.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] videos / briefings / pause 'bug'?
Am Mittwoch, 20. September 2006 07:36 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > No, it isn't the one you all think it is. :p > > The original archive also has all the required .dlls > Dec130.dll , edec.dll, winsdec.dll, winstr.dll and of course the > code to play the .rpl files. I assume the people that did > converting did this on linux, and there wasn't any windows coders > right? What I mean is, if the original code worked fine for > windows, then why was it removed? > > Was it a GPL issue by not having, or maybe not distrbuting the .dll > files that are needed to play the .rpls? They are (c) Eidos, but > does that make a difference? > > Or was it just that since it can't be played on linux, they dropped > it? Can I reinsert the code that was dropped ? What about convert > the .dlls via wine to .so files? That OK? RPL won't come back. And there won't be a Windows only solution either. At least not by me. > If not OK, then what, fork the SP & MP/skirmish so we don't have to > deal with GPL restrictions that make no sense for this game since > everything *should* be covered by GPL Tell me what restrictions make no sense and you may create as many forks as you want. > I also found out that in the original game, if you hit out a > sequence with ESC, then you can only hit the little green circle > icon thing before "PAUSE" (displayed) is unpaused. So bug #6734 > isn't a bug is it? That fix seems too drastic if the videos come > back? Same goes for the other stuff that was killed/tweaked that > has to do with videos. While it may be OK now, it will be broken > again later when video stuff is put back in. Could you give that info on the bugtracker? --Dennis pgpHz75VfiAal.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
[Warzone-dev] videos / briefings / pause 'bug'?
No, it isn't the one you all think it is. :p The original archive also has all the required .dlls Dec130.dll , edec.dll, winsdec.dll, winstr.dll and of course the code to play the .rpl files. I assume the people that did converting did this on linux, and there wasn't any windows coders right? What I mean is, if the original code worked fine for windows, then why was it removed? Was it a GPL issue by not having, or maybe not distrbuting the .dll files that are needed to play the .rpls? They are (c) Eidos, but does that make a difference? Or was it just that since it can't be played on linux, they dropped it? Can I reinsert the code that was dropped ? What about convert the .dlls via wine to .so files? That OK? If not OK, then what, fork the SP & MP/skirmish so we don't have to deal with GPL restrictions that make no sense for this game since everything *should* be covered by GPL, but we can never be 100% sure, since we can't contact anyone who can tell us? I also found out that in the original game, if you hit out a sequence with ESC, then you can only hit the little green circle icon thing before "PAUSE" (displayed) is unpaused. So bug #6734 isn't a bug is it? That fix seems too drastic if the videos come back? Same goes for the other stuff that was killed/tweaked that has to do with videos. While it may be OK now, it will be broken again later when video stuff is put back in. Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480 Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail https://www.hushssl.com?l=485 ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
