Re: [Wicket-user] zero session state/stateless pages
We did defer it as long as possible until 1 or 2 days ago and we dropped that again. Because it is almost not doable and it is currently not very easy to make a completely stateless website with wicket anyway. But that is just the default behaviour. You could if you want make youre own ISessionStore anddelay the creation of everything as much as possible. I guess we need then some tweaks to that interfacebecause the pitty thing is that you can't already ask the sessionid of the request without making the session. or you have to set youre own cookies...If you want a really stateless page/site. Then everything must be bookmarkable/mountable links..and you can't use ourform components you have to do the submit to a bookmarkable link again and work with PageParameters to get the values from the request. I hope to improve that in the next version of wicket. To introduce a BookmarkableForm. That points to a bookmarkable pages that is first getting constructed and thenpopulated the same way as it does now. you can't keep state then ofcourse (so you only have the initialstate of the page. but this is fine for search box or simular things)But we still have the session object where you could put something in and that one also has to be stored..so if the session would be dirty anyhow with the first request the session would be created. then we have the default pagemap if you create a page (don't know at that time if it is bookmarkable or not)then the page gets an id that is taken from the pagemap and the pagemap is dirty so on the first request the pagemap will try to store itself becaue it needs to hold the state that it incremented its id.But these 2 default objects are small and don't have a lot of overhead in the sessionwe had a discussion if we could have jsessionid in the url or cookie for bookmarkable urls but we have to do it else you loose the connection to a session object (with a logged in user or something like that) if youclick on a bookmarkable url with cookies disabled.johan On 4/11/06, Michael Day [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi,We have been discussing this quite a bit on IRC, but I want to bringit to the list for more exposure.As far as I understand, wicketcurrently has a concept of stateless pages, which are pages that are not stored in the session.Unfortunately, there is no way toavoid session creation on the very first hit.This means that anyuser hitting your application will be assigned a sessionid.This isvery bad because for a couple of reasons: 1.Search engines obviously don't like sessions and they don'tsupport cookies.This prevents your site from being crawled andindexed properly.2.Performance - creating a session means that it must be serialized in a cluster (even if there is no data?).Why do this when there isno technical justification?With the recent changes regarding PageMaps, is it possible to defersession creation until a user hits a stateful page?If not, then wicket cannot be used for public web sites (news, online store, etc)that need to be indexed in today's search engines.Thanks,Michael Day--- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting languagethat extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcastand join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642___ Wicket-user mailing listWicket-user@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
[Wicket-user] zero session state/stateless pages
Hi, We have been discussing this quite a bit on IRC, but I want to bring it to the list for more exposure. As far as I understand, wicket currently has a concept of stateless pages, which are pages that are not stored in the session. Unfortunately, there is no way to avoid session creation on the very first hit. This means that any user hitting your application will be assigned a sessionid. This is very bad because for a couple of reasons: 1. Search engines obviously don't like sessions and they don't support cookies. This prevents your site from being crawled and indexed properly. 2. Performance - creating a session means that it must be serialized in a cluster (even if there is no data?). Why do this when there is no technical justification? With the recent changes regarding PageMaps, is it possible to defer session creation until a user hits a stateful page? If not, then wicket cannot be used for public web sites (news, online store, etc) that need to be indexed in today's search engines. Thanks, Michael Day --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] zero session state/stateless pages
Just to clarify... 1) It makes no sense to expect Googlebot to retain a session (contains PageMap, etc) for stateless pages because multiple bots hit the website at the same time in a non-linear order. If we try to force some sort of linear state on Google it might end up with Page is expired where it does not make sense. 2) Page indexability is *very* important to me, even more important than page expiration and back-button support. Not sure about how it affects other users. If one of the developers could post more technical details behind this problem maybe other users on this list will have some ideas on how to solve it. I'm sure Wicket isn't the first framework to run into this sort of problem, how did others solve it? Gili Michael Day wrote: Hi, We have been discussing this quite a bit on IRC, but I want to bring it to the list for more exposure. As far as I understand, wicket currently has a concept of stateless pages, which are pages that are not stored in the session. Unfortunately, there is no way to avoid session creation on the very first hit. This means that any user hitting your application will be assigned a sessionid. This is very bad because for a couple of reasons: 1. Search engines obviously don't like sessions and they don't support cookies. This prevents your site from being crawled and indexed properly. 2. Performance - creating a session means that it must be serialized in a cluster (even if there is no data?). Why do this when there is no technical justification? With the recent changes regarding PageMaps, is it possible to defer session creation until a user hits a stateful page? If not, then wicket cannot be used for public web sites (news, online store, etc) that need to be indexed in today's search engines. Thanks, Michael Day --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
