Re: [Wicket-user] About to use Wicket. ORM?
You are sooo right Evan Chooly wrote: Except the question wasn't about learning. It's about being productive. And too often NIH is the anti-productivity pill. Don't want a feature? Don't use it. Wicket offers a lot that I don't use but I'd have to crazy not to use it because of that. On 7/24/07, davor-x [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm making software for 10 years now. And I dont use / like orm. But that's me. I hate everything that's bloated with features. I hope wicket will not add new features in it's core. For my use, I've build a kind of my inhouse orm, I want to view the same data in, say a browsable and selectable list and then in a crud form - synchonized. The best and only way of learning - for me - is: DIY. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/About-to-use-Wicket.-ORM--tf4131916.html#a11764361 Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/About-to-use-Wicket.-ORM--tf4131916.html#a11777105 Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] About to use Wicket. ORM?
It's not about a Not-Invented-Here thing, and not about going crazy. I wrote down my exprerience. I am more productive that way. That's all there is. Now I have my data model framework and I'm very happy I did things that way. You, do things in your right way. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/About-to-use-Wicket.-ORM--tf4131916.html#a11777583 Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] About to use Wicket. ORM?
Choosing something more lightweight can be (in my opinion often is) good for productivity and maintainability. One of the main things I look for when choosing libraries/frameworks is what dependencies they have - how many other frameworks do they force me to use (at specific versions). Another thing is how many minutes it takes me to get a basic understanding of the API. ORM alternatives: I've used PriDE and recently found jLynx. Both are thin layers over jdbc with no dependencies (jLynx uses slf4j). 15min with either of these is all you need. http://pride.sourceforge.net/ http://code.google.com/p/jlynx-persistence-framework/ /Anders Evan Chooly wrote: Except the question wasn't about learning. It's about being productive. And too often NIH is the anti-productivity pill. Don't want a feature? Don't use it. Wicket offers a lot that I don't use but I'd have to crazy not to use it because of that. On 7/24/07, davor-x [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm making software for 10 years now. And I dont use / like orm. But that's me. I hate everything that's bloated with features. I hope wicket will not add new features in it's core. For my use, I've build a kind of my inhouse orm, I want to view the same data in, say a browsable and selectable list and then in a crud form - synchonized. The best and only way of learning - for me - is: DIY. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/About-to-use-Wicket.-ORM--tf4131916.html#a11764361 Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] About to use Wicket. ORM?
On Monday, July 23, 2007, 8:29:52 PM, Matthias [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But anyway, what I still haven't decided is which ORM (if any) framework that I should go with. I have previously developed an in-house ORM system which has all the basic features I need (lazy-loading, easy population of beans, an object-oriented query language etc.), but I'm well aware of that I did it to begin with because I was afraid of letting go of my precious sql statements. Not having perfect control of the generated sql statements would be hard, but I guess I just have to wake up and realize that perhaps in these days it doesn't really matter if an sql statement or two could be optimized if you were to perform the joins in this way instead or whatnot. Wicket's not tied to any ORM, so you could still use your own if you wanted - See the wicket-phonebook app for an example that's got a couple of implementations in there. Whichever you choose, the key concept you'll be wanting to investigate is Detachable Models though! As for specific ORMs, I've tended to stick with IBatis, as I've also found Hibernate too black-box-like, whereas to me, IBatis is much simpler clearer... (Two others that I've heard good things about are Cayenne Mr. Persister, but I've not used either yet.) /Gwyn - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] About to use Wicket. ORM?
(Two others that I've heard good things about are Cayenne Mr. Persister, but I've not used either yet.) To make the list complete, people could take a look at ActiveObjects[1], which is a new initiative to create something akin to ActiveRecord, and has a Wicket based examples project. Or you could even go for an object database, like db4o[2]. It would have been great if the latter had a distribution with a friendly (preferably Apache 2) license for just the API, so that we could create a sample project for that sometimes. At least I would find it interesting to play around with it. Eelco [1] https://activeobjects.dev.java.net/, http://blogs.dzone.com/daniel/2007/07/18/an-easier-java-orm/ [2] http://www.db4o.com/ - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] About to use Wicket. ORM?
I just want to go on record, as someone who's suffered from using a custom ORM framework using the ActiveRecord pattern, that refactoring gets to be a huge pain when you mix your domain objects with data access code. Cleanly separated layers is a good thing. I suppose the RoR camp would beg to differ... On 7/25/07, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Two others that I've heard good things about are Cayenne Mr. Persister, but I've not used either yet.) To make the list complete, people could take a look at ActiveObjects[1], which is a new initiative to create something akin to ActiveRecord, and has a Wicket based examples project. Or you could even go for an object database, like db4o[2]. It would have been great if the latter had a distribution with a friendly (preferably Apache 2) license for just the API, so that we could create a sample project for that sometimes. At least I would find it interesting to play around with it. Eelco [1] https://activeobjects.dev.java.net/, http://blogs.dzone.com/daniel/2007/07/18/an-easier-java-orm/ [2] http://www.db4o.com/ - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ IMPORTANT NOTICE: This mailing list is shutting down. Please subscribe to the Apache Wicket user list. Send a message to: users-subscribe at wicket.apache.org and follow the instructions. ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] About to use Wicket. ORM?
Except the question wasn't about learning. It's about being productive. And too often NIH is the anti-productivity pill. Don't want a feature? Don't use it. Wicket offers a lot that I don't use but I'd have to crazy not to use it because of that. On 7/24/07, davor-x [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm making software for 10 years now. And I dont use / like orm. But that's me. I hate everything that's bloated with features. I hope wicket will not add new features in it's core. For my use, I've build a kind of my inhouse orm, I want to view the same data in, say a browsable and selectable list and then in a crud form - synchonized. The best and only way of learning - for me - is: DIY. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/About-to-use-Wicket.-ORM--tf4131916.html#a11764361 Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] About to use Wicket. ORM?
On 7/23/07, James Law [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Matthias, my 2 cents on orm. As far as which orm/persistence tool, I think a good strategy that I follow is to use them all! Really though, I categorize data access into multiple categories 1. Lots of insert/update stuff use cases, where you want to modify a domain model, put bus logic on domain objects, and not think in terms of rows, but instead modify an object model and let hibernate see your changes --- use hibernate 2. Get queries on the screen fast (no need for persistence context, or changes to the objects) think ibatis, or spring jdbc. I love hibernate, but for complex queries, I think it at times can require too much understanding of the black box. Like how are my many-one setup, is it cached, outer joined, or ?. I accomplish this matrix approach using spring.. since it allows me to use both and still have transactions, and one stop shopping for managing datasource with all of these tools... I agree. Here at my current job, we're doing a mix of both approaches where we have a number of domain objects managed by Spring/Hibernate/JPA but then we have a number of dynamically generated queries that don't really equate to domain objects. For those we're using straight SQL to (hopefully) quickly pull that data out of the database. If you want to use hibernate and wicket, there's the databinder which has a number of nice Hibernate-related components to use to help manage your models and the like and there's qwicket that'll help you generate the base spring/wicket setup for you if you choose to use spring. If you go with hibernate, I'd recommend sticking as close to pure JPA as you can so that you're not necessarily tied to hibernate but get the benefits of an ORM. You can still drop to native SQL if you'd like using the JPA interfaces. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] About to use Wicket. ORM?
I'm making software for 10 years now. And I dont use / like orm. But that's me. I hate everything that's bloated with features. I hope wicket will not add new features in it's core. For my use, I've build a kind of my inhouse orm, I want to view the same data in, say a browsable and selectable list and then in a crud form - synchonized. The best and only way of learning - for me - is: DIY. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/About-to-use-Wicket.-ORM--tf4131916.html#a11764361 Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] About to use Wicket. ORM?
For an enterprise app I don't think that you want Wicket and your ORM to even know that one another exist. I.e. Wicket ^ | v Domain Application ^ | v ORM That said, I've been happy with Hibernate. Good luck, Scott On 7/23/07, Matthias Karlsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, after much evaluation I have finally decided to go with Wicket as the main framework for a new enterprise site and I think I'll be pleased. I have a long road ahead of me though, because while I have much experience with developing desktop applications I'm afraid my understanding of the http request cycle will initially make it hard to just let go and stop micromanaging... But anyway, what I still haven't decided is which ORM (if any) framework that I should go with. I have previously developed an in-house ORM system which has all the basic features I need (lazy-loading, easy population of beans, an object-oriented query language etc.), but I'm well aware of that I did it to begin with because I was afraid of letting go of my precious sql statements. Not having perfect control of the generated sql statements would be hard, but I guess I just have to wake up and realize that perhaps in these days it doesn't really matter if an sql statement or two could be optimized if you were to perform the joins in this way instead or whatnot. I was hoping I could get some feedback on how people have worked with different ORMs with Wicket. I have some experience with Hibernate, though it was a little to much of a blackbox to me when I used it. For example, I see that DataBinder has popped up as a bridge between specifically Wicket and Hibernate. Any comments on how well it works? Thanks in advance, Matthias - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user -- Scott Swank reformed mathematician - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
