Re: [WikiEN-l] When an article is in full protection.
[http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_Wrong_Version Inevitable Postulate of Version Control] WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@googlemail.com wrote in message news:8b07072f0907230421w257405c9w9d411ec737e7c...@mail.gmail.com... Actually there are circumstances when admins can and should edit fully protected articles per: WP:FULL.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FULL Does anyone really object to the idea of admins responding to a request for admin help by editing a fully protected page in accordance with talkpage consensus? WereSpielChequers Message: 6 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 05:47:18 -0400 From: wjhon...@aol.com Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] How wikipedia could link into File Protection. To: wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: 8cbd991b3a1ad8c-1414-5...@webmail-mh03.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii When full protection is used, then it should stay until it is changed to semi-protection. We should not have a type of protection that allows admins to make *content* changes willy-nilly. When an article is in full protection, admins should not be making content changes, except perhaps to revert changes that were the problematic ones in the first place. Jay's original email refers to using this when there has been an edit war - in other words when full protection *is* used currently. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] When an article is in full protection.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 5:15 AM, Al Tally majorly.w...@googlemail.comwrote: If there is talk page consensus, does the page really still need to be fully protected? Not all protection is in response to edit warring. First example to come to mind: high-use templates. -Luna ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] When an article is in full protection.
On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Lunalunasan...@gmail.com wrote: Not all protection is in response to edit warring. First example to come to mind: high-use templates. FlaggedRevs would work better for that, likewise high-use images, of which flags (in the heraldic sense, i.e. those which swing from a pole) would be a good example. Rumor has it this extension is coming soon a wiki near you, like this weekend maybe[1], but I'll believe it when I see it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_47#Flagged_Revisions_update_-_requesting_an_update_from_Jimmy What we'd really need is some kind of god-parameter to indicate whether we want to transclude the stable or bleeding-edge version of a template or image. Of course I don't expect much empathy from those who haven't had the misfortune to design a template and then permanently be locked out of it. —C.W. [1] Preserved for posterity in case this falls down the memory hole: I fully support the implementation which garnered the consensus of the community and have asked that it be turned on as soon as possible. I feel that this implementation is not strong enough, but it is a good start. Once the tool is technically enabled, I think that policy will move over time to the appropriate balance, just as protection and semi-protection did. I believe it likely that I will be for a long time in favor of cautious expansion of the use of the tool for more articles - but I respect the concerns people have about it (the length of the backlog in German Wikipedia has been too often too long, in my opinion). I think we are simply waiting now on Brion. He has suggested before Wikimania. I hope that's right.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 10:35, 2 June 2009 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_47#Flagged_Revisions_update_-_requesting_an_update_from_Jimmy ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
[WikiEN-l] When an article is in full protection.
Actually there are circumstances when admins can and should edit fully protected articles per: WP:FULL.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FULL Does anyone really object to the idea of admins responding to a request for admin help by editing a fully protected page in accordance with talkpage consensus? WereSpielChequers Message: 6 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 05:47:18 -0400 From: wjhon...@aol.com Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] How wikipedia could link into File Protection. To: wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: 8cbd991b3a1ad8c-1414-5...@webmail-mh03.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii When full protection is used, then it should stay until it is changed to semi-protection. We should not have a type of protection that allows admins to make *content* changes willy-nilly. When an article is in full protection, admins should not be making content changes, except perhaps to revert changes that were the problematic ones in the first place. Jay's original email refers to using this when there has been an edit war - in other words when full protection *is* used currently. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] When an article is in full protection.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 12:21 PM, WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@googlemail.com wrote: Actually there are circumstances when admins can and should edit fully protected articles per: WP:FULL. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FULL Does anyone really object to the idea of admins responding to a request for admin help by editing a fully protected page in accordance with talkpage consensus? WereSpielChequers If there is talk page consensus, does the page really still need to be fully protected? -- Alex (User:Majorly) ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] When an article is in full protection.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 13:15, Al Tallymajorly.w...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 12:21 PM, WereSpielChequers
werespielchequ...@googlemail.com wrote:
Actually there are circumstances when admins can and should edit fully
protected articles per: WP:FULL.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FULL
Does anyone really object to the idea of admins responding to a request for
admin help by editing a fully protected page in accordance with talkpage
consensus?
WereSpielChequers
If there is talk page consensus, does the page really still need to be fully
protected?
There may be consensus on one issue but disagreement over another. Say
the subject of a protected article dies. Obviously there will be
consensus that the article needs to reflect this (not that it's
sensible to take the time to see whether there's consensus there or
not) but the dispute that lead to protection may still be ongoing.
Extreme example I know, but this *kind* of thing happens. It's why we
have {{editprotected}}.
--
Alex
(User:Majorly)
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Re: [WikiEN-l] When an article is in full protection.
2009/7/23 Al Tally majorly.w...@googlemail.com: If there is talk page consensus, does the page really still need to be fully protected? There's quite often a bitter disagreement over one thing, which sadly results in protection to stop the editwarring, despite general agreement on more broad issues. [twelfth-century figure] is French! No, he's German! Dutch, you cultural imperialists! ...but other than that lede sentence, we need to do the following dozen things to the section on his work. -- - Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] When an article is in full protection.
2009/7/23 WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@googlemail.com: Does anyone really object to the idea of admins responding to a request for admin help by editing a fully protected page in accordance with talkpage consensus? This usually works okay in practice, but then, that too is an administrative role, rather than an admin making a content decision as such, and needs to be confirmed sensibly. e.g. I've added , does that work for everyone? A good example is the death of Michael Jackson, where the page was locked and the discussion was fast and furious. Being a sensitive BLP (at the time), that was IMO just the right way to do it. Admins stepping in and saying no, this is a severe BLP hazard, we have to do this right. - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] When an article is in full protection.
2009/7/23 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: This usually works okay in practice, but then, that too is an administrative role, rather than an admin making a content decision as such, and needs to be confirmed sensibly. e.g. I've added , does that work for everyone? A good example is the death of Michael Jackson, where the page was locked and the discussion was fast and furious. Being a sensitive BLP (at the time), that was IMO just the right way to do it. Admins stepping in and saying no, this is a severe BLP hazard, we have to do this right. Another recent non-BLP example is [[Ununbium]], which was locked from moves after the likely name Copernicium was announced - it's not the name unless there are no substantial objections by Jan 2010, but the media headlines implied it was the name of the element right now. (The name situation is now explained in the intro itself, because it's current and important enough editorially.) - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] When an article is in full protection.
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009, David Gerard wrote: A good example is the death of Michael Jackson, where the page was locked and the discussion was fast and furious. Being a sensitive BLP (at the time), that was IMO just the right way to do it. Admins stepping in and saying no, this is a severe BLP hazard, we have to do this right. I would think that a BLP ceases to be a BLP once the person dies. I suppose there could still be problems for other living people who are mentioned on the page, but the main BLP problem would seem to be gone (unless you want to extend BLP to the recently dead). ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] When an article is in full protection.
2009/7/23 Ken Arromdee arrom...@rahul.net: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009, David Gerard wrote: A good example is the death of Michael Jackson, where the page was locked and the discussion was fast and furious. Being a sensitive BLP (at the time), that was IMO just the right way to do it. Admins stepping in and saying no, this is a severe BLP hazard, we have to do this right. I would think that a BLP ceases to be a BLP once the person dies. I suppose there could still be problems for other living people who are mentioned on the page, but the main BLP problem would seem to be gone (unless you want to extend BLP to the recently dead). In this case it was while it was still uncertain that he was really dead. Keeping questionable death reports out of a BLP is important, particularly as enough people went to Wikipedia first to knock the servers over ... - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] When an article is in full protection.
Andrew Gray wrote: 2009/7/23 Al Tally: If there is talk page consensus, does the page really still need to be fully protected? There's quite often a bitter disagreement over one thing, which sadly results in protection to stop the editwarring, despite general agreement on more broad issues. For some of us leaving erroneous material on an article is a lesser evil than the massive drama connected with trying to correct the error. Ec ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] When an article is in full protection.
David Gerard wrote: 2009/7/23 Ken Arromdee arrom...@rahul.net: On Thu, 23 Jul 2009, David Gerard wrote: A good example is the death of Michael Jackson, where the page was locked and the discussion was fast and furious. Being a sensitive BLP (at the time), that was IMO just the right way to do it. Admins stepping in and saying no, this is a severe BLP hazard, we have to do this right. I would think that a BLP ceases to be a BLP once the person dies. I suppose there could still be problems for other living people who are mentioned on the page, but the main BLP problem would seem to be gone (unless you want to extend BLP to the recently dead). In this case it was while it was still uncertain that he was really dead. Keeping questionable death reports out of a BLP is important, particularly as enough people went to Wikipedia first to knock the servers over ... We need to be ready for the onslaught when Elvis dies. :-) Ec ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] When an article is in full protection.
The function of an admin in an edit-war situation should be solely to revert to a previously accepted version, and await talk page consensus, then unprotect.? Admins should not change an article to what they believe is the talk page consensus, as oftentimes this involves a great amount of knowledge of exactly how to word a phrase. Some editors have the mistaken idea that admin editing is the Stamp of approval by Wikipedia, and will promote that version even if it does not reflect an accurate understanding of consensus. Thus creating bureaucratic entanglements that suppress instead of enhancing scholarly consensus. Admin actions should be toned down, not given a carte blanche to make content edits during an edit-war. Will Johnson -Original Message- From: WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@googlemail.com To: wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Thu, Jul 23, 2009 4:21 am Subject: [WikiEN-l] When an article is in full protection. Actually there are circumstances when admins can and should edit fully protected articles per: WP:FULL.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FULL Does anyone really object to the idea of admins responding to a request for admin help by editing a fully protected page in accordance with talkpage consensus? WereSpielChequers Message: 6 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 05:47:18 -0400 From: wjhon...@aol.com Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] How wikipedia could link into File Protection. To: wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: 8cbd991b3a1ad8c-1414-5...@webmail-mh03.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii When full protection is used, then it should stay until it is changed to semi-protection. We should not have a type of protection that allows admins to make *content* changes willy-nilly. When an article is in full protection, admins should not be making content changes, except perhaps to revert changes that were the problematic ones in the first place. Jay's original email refers to using this when there has been an edit war - in other words when full protection *is* used currently. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
