Re: [Wikimania-l] Comments
Dear Moushira and all, With reference to Moushira's note below, I believe that you and your team really did a wonderful job. Believe me, I have been to four other conferences this last year--2 of them were international--and, in my view, the Wikimania one was better than the four of them in terms of organization, among other things. I and other presenters were not even able to access the wireless network except rarely in one of these. So, good job, and I am sure that those Wikipedians who have seen the Pyramids, Sphinx, and temples in Luxor, etc. have very much enjoyed them. For me, it was a great venue where I met many people who are working on Arabic open source stuff, translation, etc. whom I could never have met elsewhere. Cheers, --Muhammad I just signed up to the list to drop a few lines to the long thread of emails entitled: Re:Comments :). I believe I do not have much to say after all that was said, I can just clarify few points, but first: Majorly, I am sorry to hear that your experience in the country that hosted Wikimania 2008 was that harsh, and I wish you a pleasant experience in the future Wikimanias. I wish the team could have made it better to you by any means, but I am afraid we have no control over Egyptian culture! I am sorry. Hint: The families that you used to see near by BA premises; they do not live or reside there and they are not homeless. They are patients and patients families that make it early to the public hospital that is next doors to the library. They are mostly from country side, travel long miles to reach their early, and they are too many that mostly the hospital does not occupy them. A local debate has long been taking place on the relocation of the hospital, but after all they are patients, they are harmless, and this is mostly how things are in our side of the world.. On Wi-Fi: I am sorry if anyone had problems with getting connected, this is mostly for the uneven distribution of users; the access point of B1 was mostly occupied, while the one on entrance level and the level before had room for plenty of IPs. Relocating could have helped..I am sorry if that was not made clear on site, and I apologize and am sorry if anyone suffered with getting connected. Effeietsanders: Press Conference video is available along with other sessions herehttp://www.bibalex.org/isis/Frontend/archive/Archive_Movie.aspx Wishing Patricio and his team all best of luck with Wikimania2009.. Best Regards, Moushira -- Muhammad Abdul-Mageed, PhD Student Dept. of Linguistics, Indiana University, Bloomington, USA www.mumageed.blogspot.com ** ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] Comments
Hi everyone, This probably comes WAY too late, but better late than never. This was my first Wikimania, definitely and hopefully not my last. I enjoyed the sessions and meeting everyone although I had to leave on the morning of the last day. I would also like to add my thanks to the organizing team and Bibliotheca Alexandrina staff for the efforts put into this. I tried to quickly read all of the post-conference mailing list discussion on the good and the bad of the conference, opinions on Alexandrina, Egypt, personal experiences and all that's related, and would just like to add my personal view to what I feel is a healthy and constructive discussion in which I was glad to see a diversity of opinion, openness in sharing personal views and experiences as well as a reasoned analysis on how this Wikimania relates to previous and future Wikimanias. Again, I am dropping in rather late into this discussion and I do believe that most of whatever I would have liked to add or share has already been said, and which I am in agreement with, so the need to reiterate many of the points discussed wanes, as what I might think of as personal opinion might read as perennial paraphrase. That said, the impulse to share with you my personal take on some specific points remains, so you will have to forgive me :). In the interest of being as brief as possible, I will resist the temptation of writing a drawn-out essay on everything I would like to address with a personal take (I tend to do that sometimes:)). The issues in question are those related to the views shared by some here about their experiences in Egypt. By experiences in Egypt I am discounting judgments on the organization of the conference, as I already saw that such issues (of the organizational efficiency of the conference, that is) were duly addressed by many contributers, and will continue to be addressed during the lead-up to the 2010. What I am going to address- or rather comment on – is the issue of openness. Yes, it is wildly general term but it is also one that you are all very familiar with: open media, open culture, open access are all topics discussed at this and previous wikimanias, and which form a discourse that will continue to be addressed in future wikimanias and other conferences. Most important to the context of this discussion, these are issues that you all have an interest in by the mere virtue of being wikipedians. Caveat lector: Similar to all experiences and opinions expressed here, my own commentary on these issues is naturally and unavoidably influenced by my own personal experiences, views and background, and this is starting to read like it is going to be a drawn-out treatise as opposed to brief personal take, so grab some coffee. (Just kidding) I as I started catching up on reading the mailing list messages, I came across what Majorly wrote on his experience in Egypt. I was not surprised at the only negative experience described, as I am aware of where it comes from, I acknowledge many of the unfortunate situations that conspired to construct such a negative experience (which definitely saddens me as a native of Egypt), and surely understand that the extent to which we can step outside our personal comfort zones - formed by our own cultures, communities and environments – is liable to a very wide spectrum of variation. However, what I have difficulty coming to terms with - and I do believe some would concur given the majority of opinions expressed here- is how some would be so absolutist in their conclusions in such a way to express things with such finality (to which they are entitled to in every way of course, but that is not the point). For example, Majorly has made up his mind that he never want[s] to go to Egypt again, nor the next Wikimania, he adds that there is no way I'd consider going to Buenos Aires. Wow. Now, before the point I am attempting to get across gets misinterpreted, let me get this out of the way: It's a free world! (well, some of it, at least). Where Majorly – and others – decide to go or not go is entirely their own business. Nevertheless, since we (by we I mean people who have at least a somewhat expanded understanding of the general notion of openness, and given the context of our general collective interests being in the realm of freedom of knowledge, information and expression) are sharing experiences and views, and then expressing opinions on such experiences and views, I feel compelled to share how I feel about such a sentiment. I have been fortunate enough to do a fair share of continent-hopping over the course of the past few years, and I am glad I was able to see a pretty good chunk of the world at a relatively young age. I am not going to wax lyrical on the merits and virtues of travel, as chances are that many or most of you are already avid travelers. What I would like to emphasize, however, is the one thing that fascinates me most about going somewhere new: the different. I say the
Re: [Wikimania-l] Comments
Hani Morsi wrote: [a lot of things] I completely agree with your whole email and applaud to it! But I have to quote this passage, as I think it's the essence of this message: What you make of this value is up to you, but to me it is often a form of incremental personal enlightenment, on a very small level, that must be valued and embraced, rather than shunned and avoided. We, as wikipedians and self-proclaimed advocates of openness, took up a slightly larger share of an oft-discussed but frequently practically abandoned global responsibility to value and promote diversity, cultural awareness and sensitivity, and receptivity to the new and different even if it means that we have to forsake – for even the shortest of times – our respective comfort zones. What I took the liberty to very generically term as openness here has multiple, varied but still connected and related definitions. To me, it can border on the hypocritical to claim that I am an advocate of open knowledge if I am myself not open or receptive to a different culture that might starkly contrast to my own. Just to briefly add my two piasters to the table: I was, too, ripped off several times by several people, like most of the visitors at one point or another. We all experienced the chaotic Egyptian traffic. There were some other minor inconveniences, but if I sum it all up, I don't mind them. After the conference, I traveled a lot with some Wikimedians; we visited the pyramids of Giza, I rode a camel, we saw the way the people in Cairo and Alex really live (outside of the travelers' paths), we went to Luxor and saw wonders... All in all, I think this was one of my best trips: seeing and experiencing the best and the worst of a country makes you really appreciate it. And, at least in my book, the good things pretty much outweigh the bad things. And I'm sure most people would agree. But we're talking about cultures and geography. The conference itself was done very well, IMHO, and it was more or less as good as the last years'. I sure hope I'll be able to attend the next one (although I wish the conference be set as early in August as possible). Cheers, Filip ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] Comments
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Filip Maljkovic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just to briefly add my two piasters to the table: I was, too, ripped off several times by several people, like most of the visitors at one point or another. We all experienced the chaotic Egyptian traffic. There were some other minor inconveniences, but if I sum it all up, I don't mind them. After the conference, I traveled a lot with some Wikimedians; we visited the pyramids of Giza, I rode a camel, we saw the way the people in Cairo and Alex really live (outside of the travelers' paths), we went to Luxor and saw wonders... All in all, I think this was one of my best trips: seeing and experiencing the best and the worst of a country makes you really appreciate it. And, at least in my book, the good things pretty much outweigh the bad things. And I'm sure most people would agree. Indeed, and in case I wasn't clear in my previous e-mail (actually, when I wrote it I was afraid I was sounding too defensive of Egypt, and tried to tone it down), my arrival and stay in the country was just lovely. I experienced things not seen in the U.S. and apparently a severe annoyance to some, but—and this is what I was really trying to get at—I really wasn't bothered by them. For sure, the things I saw and did were well worth the sweltering heat and occasional inconvenience, and I echo Filip wholeheartedly. One thing I always kept in mind was that the American twenty in my pocket was more than a day's wage, which made it hard to get mad about being overcharged L.E. 5 for cab fare. (At one point, I was chastizing Phoebe for giving a cab driver L.E. 10 for the ride down the corniche from our hotel, at least double the going rate—it's a buck, she said, and it'll make him really happy. It dawned on me that in the U.S. I tip snotty waitresses more for less.) But we're talking about cultures and geography. The conference itself was done very well, IMHO, and it was more or less as good as the last years'. I sure hope I'll be able to attend the next one (although I wish the conference be set as early in August as possible). You're right; the organizing team certainly couldn't do anything about Egyptian culture if they wanted to. I can pick nits, but as far as actually pulling off a conference goes, they did superbly. Austin ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] Comments
Brian McNeil wrote: I suppose the key point to take from the gripes Majorly and I have posted is that you need input from people outwith the hosting country. People who have visited the country as tourists and can comment on where and how there will be attempts to take advantage of you. True enough, though I think that much of the problem related to an inattention to details. Residents of a country tend to take their way of doing things for granted, and this includes any number of practices that are completely foreign to us foreigners. It takes a great deal of foresight to anticipate the kinds of problems we foreigners may encounter. The website for the Cairo International Airport does include information to the effect that there are two commercial companies providing bus service to Alexandria, but says nothing about where in the airport one might find these services, not even in which of the two terminals. This inattention to detail, or lack of specificity may be endemic in Egyptian society, and is not limited to our own organisers. What is needed is detailed specific instructions from the time we leave the airplane until we arrive safely in the hands of the conference organizers. Some of us who may arrive a couple of days early to offset jetlag need to know where we can meet other earlybirds. Setting up an early information desk to deal with this is very helpful. Ec ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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Thank you, Patricio. To be fair and honest. I'm looking for getting a chance to go to B.A. next year. Back to the Japan, my beloved home country, and the city I've been in my graduate and marriage day, I found here Osaka is hotter than Cairo (so definitely much hotter than Alex but I knew it even before my departure), more humid than Singapore and things cost more than Sharm el Sheik. I feel comfortable in my apartment though, in every return I realize there is no perfect place. And almost in every community park one or two homeless occupy benches during the night. Poor people are not only in developing countries. I saw them in New York (not sure about Boston, since I didn't go to downtown), in Taipei (and then he was completely naked) and in Alex (but I doubt if they were really homeless - some countries we know professional beggars who have their own home and go to the city for their business). And local people and facilities somehow annoyed me in many ways, as said. That is the world, but at the same time, I have great days with my friends both new and old in Alexandria, expectedly as all of you, also I met many good people and things in many place of Egypt. The guide who attended me in Luxor was professional and arranged me a special local tour for visiting local Coptic churches for free, I got treated by a local beduin at the top of Mt. Sinai (how cozy to have tea seeing the morning Sinai from the summit, sitting just beneath of Chapel of S. Trinity), also treated by a local Egyptian family including yummy spicy stewed eggplant ... and Divine Liturgy at the Basilica of S. Transfiguration in the monastery so-called S. Catherine; they were so generous to allow me enter to the Holy of Holies(!) to give venerational kisses to the relics of the Great-martyr Catherine of Alexandria (I know some claim the doubt about her historical existence, but it is another story). After all, not only in the venue, party and accommodation, but also in the entire of the country, its virtues, beauty, riches and generosity cannot be underestimated by its malice, demelit, and all its vices. The monks gave me a ring. It reminded me the peace and tranquility in Sinai, in the monastery. Strangely it was not so much different I have known in my parish, with my friends, of course including in the dorm and in the venue. All seemed natural and dairy, no hidden special things I think. Truly the most precious one is amidst the human - not the place. Mt. Sinai gave me a lesson; there is no special place in this globe but we can change our world and invite to create the place we feel comfortable, in our own labor and diligence. We cannot change everything at once but we can do something in every time - with dignity, in calmness from discretion. Shotly, in love. Through editing, organizing things, contacting the other people - just for the love for knowledge and thus, for our friends and neighborhood. As said, I have found some disappointments in the conf and I won't hesitate to spread these; beware, it could be much bitterer than anyone input ;D But I'll try to keep in the line directly related to the conference and its organizing team's concern. And thanks to Alex team again, and to Patricio and BA team, for your promised serious concerns. On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Patricio Lorente [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/7/28 Al Tally [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It's now been a week since I got back. I enjoyed the actual conference, and meeting everyone in person. However, I have made up my mind that I never want to go to Egypt again, nor the next Wikimania. [...] I was so disturbed and put off by my experience of Egpyt, there is no way I'd consider going to Buenos Aires. While I'm sure they are very different places, I don't want to risk anything like the harrassment, the poor hygene, the dangerous roads and the poor organisation again. It'll be way too expensive for me as well, and I doubt I'd get a scholarship. I'd rather go somewhere closer to the UK where I live, or where the culture is more similar to here. I'm sorry my words are harsh. This is not a dig at anyone, just my honest concerns about how this whole thing turned out. I know for sure others feel the same way I do about a lot of the things I said. Dear friends: I'm happy to see that this thread turned into a more constructive discussion about things we can do better in next wikimanias. I can't imagine how could the egyptian team change the local taxi drivers' culture just for our comfort. While we (in Argentina) are taking notes on every comment about things to do and things to improve, I'd like to say a few words, about some concepts that didn't sound well to me. I was very happy to be in Egypt. I knew (as every one of you) that the taxi drivers -and other people- would try to cheat me, that transport media would be below european standars -although the train service from Cairo to Alexandria was quite fine-, that traffic would be terrible,
Re: [Wikimania-l] Comments
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 02:31, Patricio Lorente [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was very happy to be in Egypt. I knew (as every one of you) that the taxi drivers -and other people- would try to cheat me, that transport media would be below european standars -although the train service from Cairo to Alexandria was quite fine-, that traffic would be terrible, that poor people would be everywhere. Welcome, my friends, to the South. [snip] We are taking notes and working: you'll find enough plugs in Buenos Aires, and enough wifi, and enough social room and activities... and perhaps you'll find a city that fits with most european standars (please, read [[en:Buenos Aires]] for further reference). But if you walk the city, you'll meet poor people, at night you may find families of waste pickers, you'll see homeless. Sorry about that. We are not able to hide them for you and I think we don't want to do so. So, let's talk about things we can work out. And forgive me if my words sound bitter: I just couldn't help. And having been to all four Wikimanias, you'll never take that one thing away from me. There's nothing like the South when it comes to the heart. Thank you Patricio, indeed. Thank you, Egypt, for reminding us that the world is made of differences. Delphine PS. http://blog.notanendive.org/post/2008/07/24/When-it-comes-to-roots PPS. I'll take your word on the wifi. I have yet to attend ONE geeky conference --anywhere in the world-- where the Wifi works perfectly ;-) -- ~notafish NB. This gmail address is used for mailing lists. For Wikimedia related correspondence, use my dmenard(at)wikimedia(point)org address. Ceci n'est pas une endive - http://blog.notanendive.org ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 1:18 PM, Delphine Ménard [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: PPS. I'll take your word on the wifi. I have yet to attend ONE geeky conference --anywhere in the world-- where the Wifi works perfectly Seconded...SJ ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 5:17 PM, Al Tally [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's now been a week since I got back. I enjoyed the actual conference, and meeting everyone in person. Hi. After Wikimania, we (Nina, Jakob, Kurt and me) went to Cairo for a few days. Some of us have since then gone east to Israel (Eilat, Tel Aviv and now Jerusalem). While my health condition had been slowly and unsteadily deteriorating since the second day of Wikimania, it took until yesterday when I got fever (39.5°C / 103°F) and other issues. I am under medication now, hopefully my status goes back to functional before we leave back to Germany. This has been my third Wikimania (after Frankfurt and Taipei) and I have a mixed bag of memories from Alexandria. The conference place was ideal for a conference about knowledge and it was a good decision to go to Egypt for reasons of geographic diversity and political statementary. Our flight from Frankfurt landed in Alexandria Borg el Arab at 2 a.m. and we (roughtly 10 Wikimedians) were picked up by the organisers. Since this airport is rather small, it was impossible to miss each other. Our group of four asked to be in one room, which was confirmed before Wikimania. At the dorms itself, we were told to sleep in seperate rooms (seperated by sex) at least for one night. I experienced the wikimania conference itself to be rather crowded and over-busy. With 20 minutes of a standard presentation, the effective time was usually a little bit less. When I went to the stage for my 20 minutes presentation, it took the - otherwise friendly - staff almost 5 minutes to set up the presentation computer. The Wifi-situation was a little bit annoying. After I figured out to manually set up an IP address and gateway and dns, I was able to access the net with reasonable speed. I missed any place to simply gather around with other Wikimedians. This has already been described and people who claim that Wikimania should happen in a place which offers both conference rooms and dorms in the same location are completely right, imho. It could also help to keep all the rooms open until midnight or something like that. Mathias ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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Hi there It my first mail to this list, and needless to say i am very late :) (and that's probably because one of major downsides Majorely told about, lack of info on the wiki). But i have few things to say on this thread. First of all, i want to thank Majorely for his frank and clear criticism, that lead to this constructive discussion that should make a lot. Many of the mentioned problems could be avoided by the local volunteers team i think, things like infos regarding shuttle schedule for example. Actually i am an alexandrian (and somehow i am proude to be), but unfortunately i wasn't able to help organizing the conference because of my conscription status (think about me as a part time prisoner), and most likely if i were within the volunteers i couldn't make a difference, i think the staff were exelant just as volunteers, but none of theme was really proffessional, and they couldn't expect all possible situations, but something like this i guess should be expected for wikimedians (the largest contribution driven community), but that doesn't change the fact that there shalt be more work on wiki, or by early promotion of communication mediums like the irc channel and this mailing list where all of us could share infos, i would clarify that most of Egyptian attendees were more than ready to help about anything involving info about the conference or even any help needed about Alexandria, Cairo or arabic translation, actually most of them would be gratefull to provide help. Unfortunately, most aspects and downside couldn't be avoided by organizers, as you can say these points are defects by design,that's what the mix of popular ignorance, poverty, social disorder led by administrative corruption can do, a corrupt policeman could illustrate all the scene, these strange picture in your memory with all its contrasts, you can call it Egypt in decadence. But i would like to affirm you that your comments are highly regarded, I know it is not the appropriate place to talk about politics, but most deffects might never changes with only goodwill, i can't give you a schedul, but come back few years latter and i hope some changes will be done, some are already under the way, but we [egyptians] have to wake up from our nightmare, because however you unliked the current state of Egypt, Egyptians suffer the most. I like Kizo Naoko's word: Mt. Sinai gave me a lesson; there is no special place in this globe but we can change our world and invite to create the place we feel comfortable, in our own labor and diligence. Next time anyone want to visit Egypt, please contact your friends, friend of friend, or anyone you can trust here, or at least someone already visited Egypt, for Egyptians friends you can ask him/her for guidance and companion in their cities. Another point of view, which is already discussed, there is no mean to keep the monopoly between the first world, specially when it comes to Wikimedia, i bet i benefit from Wikipedia for example more than you :) i am not joking, i mean projects like this and like Wikiversity, Wikibooks are more valuable where education is corrupt and/or expensive, that's clear i think, and that's why i am more loyal to Wikimedia than most of you ;D even if i have less to contribute. The most flourish part in this thread IMHO, is Ptricio's mail, which promise a lot for next Wikimania i hope (and expect) it will be much better, though some points may remain: But if you walk the city, you'll meet poor people, at night you may find families of waste pickers, you'll see homeless. Sorry about that. We are not able to hide them for you and I think we don't want to do so. they are not the organizers responsability, but i am sorry to say, poverty is the responsability of all of us, all this planet residents, i am not just talking in the flow, but i know there is something to be done, and i know Wikimedia took it seriously by launching projects like Moulin, WikiAfrica and the more to go. I hope if i can attend Wikimania2009 (visiting Argentina is an aim by its own), though most probably i will not, but that is not the end of the world for me, and hopefully i may attend some years latter, but for now, i will try to keep active on wikipedia during my conscription. I will revise. -- Khaled Khalil ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
[Wikimania-l] Comments
It's now been a week since I got back. I enjoyed the actual conference, and meeting everyone in person. However, I have made up my mind that I never want to go to Egypt again, nor the next Wikimania. First off, the planning for this conference was pretty poor with regards to information. What I mean is, I had to pester people on IRC to get any kind of information regarding how to get to the shuttle, what to do on arrival etc. The schedule the team was supposed to be following wasn't followed. The scholarships were very late indeed, and when I finally received my I'm sorry, but... email, I'd already booked. The fact there was very little info *on the wiki* is atrocious. I had to pester Mido on IRC several times a week, to try and squeeze any information out. It got to about a week before I was due to leave, and still with no answers to basic questions, I sent an email to this list, begging for information. Eventually it was answered, but it was never put on the wiki. I spoke to some people, who don't subscribe to this list, so didn't ever receive this important information. The whole shuttle thing was a disaster. We should not have needed to sign up - just run a shuttle every 4 hours as stated. No where did you mention where the shuttle would be on arrival (until I explicitly asked on the list, even then it was wrong). The shuttle for me on return left at 7:30am when my flight was at 5pm. Why was there not a later shuttle? On arrival, I was with Charles Matthews, and we spent several hours waiting at the airport, then we realised we were in the wrong hall. So, after meeting with two other Wikimanians, we waited a further two hours for the shuttle, which was very late. We arrived in Alexandria at 1am-ish. I was put in a room that was a different one to the one I had been told I was in. After a very nutritious breakfast, we went to the first day of the conference bright and early. The schedule changed several times, there was a lack of plugs in the halls, and some of the talks were frankly dull (this applies to all three days). There was not really anywhere suitable to go for lunch, so we sort of sat around on the floor... not good. How did Alexandria get chosen in this respect - the social areas were basically non existent. On returning to the dorms, I found that I had to change rooms, again, still not to the one that I was put into originally. The beds were rather hard, no sheets were provided, and there was no toilet paper in the toilets (luckily I had brought my own as I imagined something as basic as that would be left out). The next two days went similarly I suppose. The end of conference party was done badly again. Why did we have to get a sticker? No one even checked I had one when I got onto the coach. The party was OK, and the food was probably the best I had the entire time I was there. I left the next day, with Brianmc (sharing a cab). We got to Cairo airport, but the wrong terminal for me. I had to make my own way to Terminal 1, after being tricked by someone into paying money I shouldn't have had to to get there. I was then harrassed by a man who claimed to be an honest policeman who charged me £300 EGP for the use of his cab. He wouldn't let me leave, even after I spilt water in his car. I tried to walk away, and he grabbed my arm demanding I paid him. I don't think I'd ever felt so awful in my life. It was the most horrible experience of the conference. Why are people like that allowed to roam about the airport, looking for weak, defenceless (and rich) tourists like myself? It's ridiculous. I am still struggling to see how Egypt was chosen to host Wikimania. Yes, the people at the conference were nice and friendly, and the conference was enjoyable enough, with a few minor issues, but the country itself is the worst I have ever been to. You cannot cross the road without risking being killed by the mad drivers (who beep at all hours of the day for no apparent reason). They should save painting lanes on the roads, as no one bothers following them. There was a family living in the street, the same street the BA is situated on. Just goes to show what a mix of life there is. I was so disturbed and put off by my experience of Egpyt, there is no way I'd consider going to Buenos Aires. While I'm sure they are very different places, I don't want to risk anything like the harrassment, the poor hygene, the dangerous roads and the poor organisation again. It'll be way too expensive for me as well, and I doubt I'd get a scholarship. I'd rather go somewhere closer to the UK where I live, or where the culture is more similar to here. I'm sorry my words are harsh. This is not a dig at anyone, just my honest concerns about how this whole thing turned out. I know for sure others feel the same way I do about a lot of the things I said. -- Al Tally (User:Majorly) ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimania-l] Comments
) driver and porter were obnoxiously persistent about tips. Brian McNeil -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Tally Sent: 28 July 2008 16:18 To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) Subject: [Wikimania-l] Comments It's now been a week since I got back. I enjoyed the actual conference, and meeting everyone in person. However, I have made up my mind that I never want to go to Egypt again, nor the next Wikimania. First off, the planning for this conference was pretty poor with regards to information. What I mean is, I had to pester people on IRC to get any kind of information regarding how to get to the shuttle, what to do on arrival etc. The schedule the team was supposed to be following wasn't followed. The scholarships were very late indeed, and when I finally received my I'm sorry, but... email, I'd already booked. The fact there was very little info *on the wiki* is atrocious. I had to pester Mido on IRC several times a week, to try and squeeze any information out. It got to about a week before I was due to leave, and still with no answers to basic questions, I sent an email to this list, begging for information. Eventually it was answered, but it was never put on the wiki. I spoke to some people, who don't subscribe to this list, so didn't ever receive this important information. The whole shuttle thing was a disaster. We should not have needed to sign up - just run a shuttle every 4 hours as stated. No where did you mention where the shuttle would be on arrival (until I explicitly asked on the list, even then it was wrong). The shuttle for me on return left at 7:30am when my flight was at 5pm. Why was there not a later shuttle? On arrival, I was with Charles Matthews, and we spent several hours waiting at the airport, then we realised we were in the wrong hall. So, after meeting with two other Wikimanians, we waited a further two hours for the shuttle, which was very late. We arrived in Alexandria at 1am-ish. I was put in a room that was a different one to the one I had been told I was in. After a very nutritious breakfast, we went to the first day of the conference bright and early. The schedule changed several times, there was a lack of plugs in the halls, and some of the talks were frankly dull (this applies to all three days). There was not really anywhere suitable to go for lunch, so we sort of sat around on the floor... not good. How did Alexandria get chosen in this respect - the social areas were basically non existent. On returning to the dorms, I found that I had to change rooms, again, still not to the one that I was put into originally. The beds were rather hard, no sheets were provided, and there was no toilet paper in the toilets (luckily I had brought my own as I imagined something as basic as that would be left out). The next two days went similarly I suppose. The end of conference party was done badly again. Why did we have to get a sticker? No one even checked I had one when I got onto the coach. The party was OK, and the food was probably the best I had the entire time I was there. I left the next day, with Brianmc (sharing a cab). We got to Cairo airport, but the wrong terminal for me. I had to make my own way to Terminal 1, after being tricked by someone into paying money I shouldn't have had to to get there. I was then harrassed by a man who claimed to be an honest policeman who charged me £300 EGP for the use of his cab. He wouldn't let me leave, even after I spilt water in his car. I tried to walk away, and he grabbed my arm demanding I paid him. I don't think I'd ever felt so awful in my life. It was the most horrible experience of the conference. Why are people like that allowed to roam about the airport, looking for weak, defenceless (and rich) tourists like myself? It's ridiculous. I am still struggling to see how Egypt was chosen to host Wikimania. Yes, the people at the conference were nice and friendly, and the conference was enjoyable enough, with a few minor issues, but the country itself is the worst I have ever been to. You cannot cross the road without risking being killed by the mad drivers (who beep at all hours of the day for no apparent reason). They should save painting lanes on the roads, as no one bothers following them. There was a family living in the street, the same street the BA is situated on. Just goes to show what a mix of life there is. I was so disturbed and put off by my experience of Egpyt, there is no way I'd consider going to Buenos Aires. While I'm sure they are very different places, I don't want to risk anything like the harrassment, the poor hygene, the dangerous roads and the poor organisation again. It'll be way too expensive for me as well, and I doubt I'd get a scholarship. I'd rather go somewhere closer to the UK where I live, or where the culture is more similar to here. I'm
Re: [Wikimania-l] Comments
Once there, there was no fault to pick with the local Wikimedians. They were friendly, courteous, and helpful. The keynote given by the suit from IBM was the biggest waste of time, and I wish I'd just had a long lie. This was basically a rehash of some presentation for businessmen and not at all appropriate for the audience. I was very glad I attended the presentation by Eric Johnson, his talk on use of MediaWiki within U.S. government was most interesting. I covered that on Wikinews, and when all the presentations are up in more accessible formats it is one I would recommend seeking out. I suppose the key point to take from the gripes Majorly and I have posted is that you need input from people outwith the hosting country. People who have visited the country as tourists and can comment on where and how there will be attempts to take advantage of you. Brian McNeil -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of effe iets anders Sent: 28 July 2008 20:06 To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Comments Hey, Al, Brian, thanks for your comments. Some of them might be useful for next year, most of them (well, as far as local problems such as taxi drivers are concerned) unfortunately less, so that we have to reinvent what the local problems will be in Buenos Aires and who knows where wikimania will bring us. I hope that especially everybody would post his/her comments regarding things we can fix in the coming years, so that Wikimania can actually get improved, I think everybody would be loving that :) . I myself am for instance very interested in comments regarding the program, regarding the number of lectures vs the number of discussions/workshops, regarding the scientific sessions (which I unfortunately have not been able to attend myself), the quality of the keynote and invited speakers and the number of out-of-community speakers. (such as Eric Johnson and the UNU people) What about the staff presentations, how was the interaction with the local team, if you had a problem, were youhelped as far as reasonably could be expected etc. Please note that there *will* be a shrt survey soon about Wikimania, but extensive elaboration on what can be improved would be highly welcomed by the Wikimania 2009 organizing team I would guess. kind regards, Lodewijk 2008/7/28 Brian McNeil [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I have to agree with Majorly here. The efforts of our Egyptian hosts were all undone by their mercenary countrymen who view anyone with a fair skin as a walking wallet that needs to be emptied. The Egyptian tourist board needs to get their shit together and clean up Cairo airport. I should not have to fight off vagabonds with no identification who want to take my luggage off me, nor deal with opportunist taxi drivers who tell me that €10 is a good price to get from one terminal to another. I already knew there was a free shuttle, but no bugger would tell me where it was because there was no profit in that. While at terminal two I met up with a number of German Wikimedians, the fact that they did not even know that the shuttle bus was picking people up at terminal one speaks volumes about the effectiveness of communication regarding this. We fought off taxi drivers who offered to take us to Alexandria for 800 Egyptian pounds and eventually got the shuttle bus to the other airport – terminal one – where we assumed we could relax and wait on the bus to take us to Alexandria. We were not the first Wikimaniacs to get there. There were already about seven or eight conference attendees at terminal one. Some had been there since a little after 8am, and we got there around 3pm. A bus had been supposed to turn up at 2pm, but had not. Fortunately some of those already at the old airport had phone numbers for local Wikimedians, someone turned up to help us out, and at around 4:30pm a bus turned up to take people to Alexandria. The bus had seven seats, there were around 16 of us. GerardM faced down the bus driver and browbeat him into taking those who had been at the airport the longest, regardless of the precious list of names of people he was supposed to take. The rest of us were left with our Egyptian Wikimedian to figure out how to get from Cairo to Alexandria. That involved a – thankfully airconditioned - coach trip. There were two prolonged stops in Cairo while additional passengers were picked up, so what we were told would be a four hour trip took five and a half. However, I suspect everyone was just relieved to actually be in Alexandria; the issue of getting from the bus station to our accommodation – in my case the dorms - was a minor detail. When its midnight and you've been up since 4:30am you tend to be relieved you have somewhere to sleep, although the emails I had been sent about that turned out to be utter fiction. The conference itself was great, and a significant counter to the trials I
Re: [Wikimania-l] Comments
Congratulations, that measured a 0.1 on the sarcasm scale. I'm 39, on my third passport, and no longer live in the country I was born and grew up in. If you took all the miles I've flown and stitched them together you could probably get to the moon and back. I know what a travel guide is, and I also know how they sugar-coat things so potential tourists don't run away screaming. Brian McNeil -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Merlijn van Deen Sent: 28 July 2008 21:06 To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Comments 2008/7/28 Brian McNeil [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I suppose the key point to take from the gripes Majorly and I have posted is that you need input from people outwith the hosting country. People who have visited the country as tourists and can comment on where and how there will be attempts to take advantage of you. Yeah. That's called a travel guide. --valhallasw ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
