Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiVoyage Association as a thematic organization
Am 10.03.2013 20:45, schrieb Federico Leva (Nemo): Chapters have fees because associations have fees; they should follow the laws and customs of their geography and a one-size-fits-all global regulation would be a big mistake. (It might even be illegal in some jurisdictions for some associative forms.) I also question your secondary premise that interested people are left out by fees, and I encourage you to demonstrate this claim. my point of view is that sometimes it just makes sense to have fees just as a principal: If you are a serious organisation you need serious people. Having to pay a (small) fee is a certain filter to get people who are more serious than those who would become a member just because it sounds fun and is free anyway. /Manuel -- Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Lausanne, +41 (21) 34066-22 - www.wikimedia.ch ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiVoyage Association as a thematic organization
Manuel Schneider, 11/03/2013 08:49: Am 10.03.2013 20:45, schrieb Federico Leva (Nemo): Chapters have fees because associations have fees; they should follow the laws and customs of their geography and a one-size-fits-all global regulation would be a big mistake. (It might even be illegal in some jurisdictions for some associative forms.) I also question your secondary premise that interested people are left out by fees, and I encourage you to demonstrate this claim. my point of view is that sometimes it just makes sense to have fees just as a principal: If you are a serious organisation you need serious people. Having to pay a (small) fee is a certain filter to get people who are more serious than those who would become a member just because it sounds fun and is free anyway. Yes, and a very minimum filter is IMHO needed if you're serious about involving people (rather than just inflating statistics) in order to get stuff done and be democratic. A chapter board member wakes up every morning wondering what interests or could interest members more, and periodically chases members one by one. It's hard enough with hundreds of possibly interested and dozens of slightly-engaged people (in a non-huge chapter), it's impossible if the signal:noise ratio it too low. Think of the board members' health, their job is a hard one. ;-) Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
[Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין
כתב מעיתון מוביל מבקש לדבר עם מישהו על בן הטבע. מישהו מעוניין? -- Forwarded message -- To: it...@wikimedia.org.il הי איציק, בהמשך לשיחתנו, אני מעוניין לדבר עם עורך שהיה שם מימיה הראשונים של ויקיפדיה העברית, ומכיר מקרוב את יהודה בלו, שערך בעבר תחת השם בן הטבע לפני שהושעה ונחסם. ברצוני לשמוע את הסיפור המלא על מה שקרה שם, ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין
מצטער, אני לא מדבר עברית. מנואל Am 11.03.2013 14:36, schrieb Itzik Edri: כתב מעיתון מוביל מבקש לדבר עם מישהו על בן הטבע. מישהו מעוניין? -- Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Lausanne, +41 (21) 34066-22 - www.wikimedia.ch ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are there plans for interactions between wikidata and wiktionaries ?
There is currently a number of things going on re the future of Wiktionary.
There is, for example, the suggestion to adopt OmegaWiki, which could
potentially complicate a Wikibase-Solution in the future (but then again,
structured data is often rather easy to transform):
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Adopt_OmegaWiki
There is this grant proposal for elaborating the future of Wiktionary,
which I consider a potentially smarter first step:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vision
There's this discussion on Wikdiata itself:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary
And I know that Daniel K. is very interested in working into this direction.
Personally, I regard Wiktionary as the third priority, following Wikipedia
and Commons. A lot of the other projects -- like Wikivoyage or Wikisource
-- can be served with only small changes to Wikidata as it is, but both
Commons and Wiktionary would require a bit of thought (and here again,
Commons much less than Wiktionary). I would appreciate a discussion with
the Wiktionary-Communities, and also to make them more aware of the
OmegaWiki proposal, the potential of Wikidata for Wiktionary, etc. Just to
give a comparison: it took a few months to write the original Wikidata
proposal, and it was up for discussion for several months before it was
decided and acted upon. I would strongly advise to again choose slow and
careful planning over hastened decisions.
Cheers,
Denny
2013/3/9 Mathieu Stumpf psychosl...@culture-libre.org
Hello,
First, congratulation for all the already achieved great work on the
wikidata project.
Now I would be interested to know more about future development,
especially on interactions with wiktionaries.
I think wikidata could help to improve wiktionaries drastically, by
unifying not only interlangs links, but also definitions and
translations.
More accurately what I mean is that currently you often have, attached
to one wiki article you have usually several definitions for each
language where the word is used. But often when I seek a non-french word
in the french wiktionary, looking at the native wiktionary will bring
more definition than what you can find on the french article.
I saw that on the english wiktionary, the interface added a quick add
feature, which ask user to fill translation for each meaning. That's
great and I wish it would be added in all chapters. And I think that we
could add even more hey, what about translating just this little thing
feature across all dictionary by centralizing entries, so that each
word is associated with one or several meaning by language. Then all
meanings could be redistributed to all wiktionnaries, even when no
translation is available for a given meaning in the local chapter. In
this cas we could have an information box that would say this word have
an other meaning which wasn't yet translated in ${local_language}, if
you one of the language in which a translation is available, please help
us to improve the wiktionary.
What do think about such a project, could it work with wikidata?
kind regards,
mathieu
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Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are there plans for interactions between wikidata and wiktionaries ?
Denny Vrandečić, 11/03/2013 14:52: There is currently a number of things going on re the future of Wiktionary. There is, for example, the suggestion to adopt OmegaWiki, which could potentially complicate a Wikibase-Solution in the future (but then again, structured data is often rather easy to transform): http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Adopt_OmegaWiki There is this grant proposal for elaborating the future of Wiktionary, which I consider a potentially smarter first step: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vision That's Wikisource. :) There's this discussion on Wikdiata itself: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary And I know that Daniel K. is very interested in working into this direction. Personally, I regard Wiktionary as the third priority, following Wikipedia and Commons. A lot of the other projects -- like Wikivoyage or Wikisource -- can be served with only small changes to Wikidata as it is, but both Commons and Wiktionary would require a bit of thought (and here again, Commons much less than Wiktionary). Actually Wikiquote and Wikivoyage use interwikis exactly like Wikipedia; Commons in the same way except it's interproject; Wiktionary in the same way except it's case-sensitive and not about concepts (opr about a stricter definition of concept); Wikisource in a completely different way; Wikibooks, Wikinews and Wikiversity I'm not sure. As for phase II, it's another story. Wikisource and Commons would benefit a lot from it; for Wiktionary it could be a revolution; for Wikispecies idem but with less effort (?); Wikiquote would become I would appreciate a discussion with the Wiktionary-Communities, and also to make them more aware of the OmegaWiki proposal, the potential of Wikidata for Wiktionary, etc. Just to give a comparison: it took a few months to write the original Wikidata proposal, and it was up for discussion for several months before it was decided and acted upon. I would strongly advise to again choose slow and careful planning over hastened decisions. It's impossible to plan or discuss anything without knowing what matters. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are there plans for interactions between wikidata and wiktionaries ?
Hi Denny, as Nemo pointed out, that grant is for Wikisource :-) http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_** Wikisource_strategic_visionhttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vision We spoke about that briefly in the Office hours: one of the main thing Wikidata could do, I think, is to centralize cross-wiki links, the very same way it centralized interlinks. I don't know how difficult could it be, but I sense this would be a breakthrough for all sister projects. We could review the Sister template, and make cross-wiki navigation much more easy and useful. Aubrey On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.comwrote: Denny Vrandečić, 11/03/2013 14:52: There is currently a number of things going on re the future of Wiktionary. There is, for example, the suggestion to adopt OmegaWiki, which could potentially complicate a Wikibase-Solution in the future (but then again, structured data is often rather easy to transform): http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Requests_for_comment/**Adopt_OmegaWikihttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Adopt_OmegaWiki There is this grant proposal for elaborating the future of Wiktionary, which I consider a potentially smarter first step: http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_** Wikisource_strategic_visionhttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vision That's Wikisource. :) There's this discussion on Wikdiata itself: https://www.wikidata.org/**wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionaryhttps://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary And I know that Daniel K. is very interested in working into this direction. Personally, I regard Wiktionary as the third priority, following Wikipedia and Commons. A lot of the other projects -- like Wikivoyage or Wikisource -- can be served with only small changes to Wikidata as it is, but both Commons and Wiktionary would require a bit of thought (and here again, Commons much less than Wiktionary). Actually Wikiquote and Wikivoyage use interwikis exactly like Wikipedia; Commons in the same way except it's interproject; Wiktionary in the same way except it's case-sensitive and not about concepts (opr about a stricter definition of concept); Wikisource in a completely different way; Wikibooks, Wikinews and Wikiversity I'm not sure. As for phase II, it's another story. Wikisource and Commons would benefit a lot from it; for Wiktionary it could be a revolution; for Wikispecies idem but with less effort (?); Wikiquote would become I would appreciate a discussion with the Wiktionary-Communities, and also to make them more aware of the OmegaWiki proposal, the potential of Wikidata for Wiktionary, etc. Just to give a comparison: it took a few months to write the original Wikidata proposal, and it was up for discussion for several months before it was decided and acted upon. I would strongly advise to again choose slow and careful planning over hastened decisions. It's impossible to plan or discuss anything without knowing what matters. Nemo __**_ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.**org Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are there plans for interactions between wikidata and wiktionaries ?
Sorry about the wrong link, I meant this IEG proposal: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Wiktionary_-_the_way_it_should_be but as far as I can tell, this one didn't make it into round 1 (pity, something like that would have made sense, but I understand that the proposal was obviously not detailed enough. Whatever.) I fully agree with Andrea and Nemo that some use cases would be very easy to implement, especially linking between the projects. Commons and Wiktionary though are very different and require more thought: Commons: * easy goals: link to appropriate items for some of the pages in Commons, use data from Wikidata in the creator namespace and similar * more engaging: add metadata to the media files in Commons itself and link them to each other and to Wikidata Wiktionary: * easy goals: none. The conceptualization of Wiktionary simply is not a direct fit to the conceptualization in Wikipedia and Wikidata. We need to figure out how they work together. Maybe this page is a good start, and maybe we should collect the ideas there. https://www.wikidata.org/**wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionaryhttps://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary I mean, OmegaWiki has been around for a while, and they learned many, extremely valuable lessons. A lot of work has went into it, and it would be a shame not to build on its experiences and lessons. But I would like to ask the question whether it is the right software or not, even though it is a painful question. But please be reminded that I have spent many years in the development of Semantic MediaWiki, with the one goal to have it switched on the Wikipedias -- and then to come to the conclusion to *not* use the software as is, and start from scratch. We need a discussion on Wiktionary, and how it can evolve, and if it even should. And I do not think that a cross-mailing list discussion like the current one is the right place, and I do not even know where the right place is. So, first question: where should this discussion take place? Cheers, Denny 2013/3/11 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com Denny Vrandečić, 11/03/2013 14:52: There is currently a number of things going on re the future of Wiktionary. There is, for example, the suggestion to adopt OmegaWiki, which could potentially complicate a Wikibase-Solution in the future (but then again, structured data is often rather easy to transform): http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Requests_for_comment/**Adopt_OmegaWikihttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Adopt_OmegaWiki There is this grant proposal for elaborating the future of Wiktionary, which I consider a potentially smarter first step: http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_** Wikisource_strategic_visionhttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vision That's Wikisource. :) There's this discussion on Wikdiata itself: https://www.wikidata.org/**wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionaryhttps://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary And I know that Daniel K. is very interested in working into this direction. Personally, I regard Wiktionary as the third priority, following Wikipedia and Commons. A lot of the other projects -- like Wikivoyage or Wikisource -- can be served with only small changes to Wikidata as it is, but both Commons and Wiktionary would require a bit of thought (and here again, Commons much less than Wiktionary). Actually Wikiquote and Wikivoyage use interwikis exactly like Wikipedia; Commons in the same way except it's interproject; Wiktionary in the same way except it's case-sensitive and not about concepts (opr about a stricter definition of concept); Wikisource in a completely different way; Wikibooks, Wikinews and Wikiversity I'm not sure. As for phase II, it's another story. Wikisource and Commons would benefit a lot from it; for Wiktionary it could be a revolution; for Wikispecies idem but with less effort (?); Wikiquote would become I would appreciate a discussion with the Wiktionary-Communities, and also to make them more aware of the OmegaWiki proposal, the potential of Wikidata for Wiktionary, etc. Just to give a comparison: it took a few months to write the original Wikidata proposal, and it was up for discussion for several months before it was decided and acted upon. I would strongly advise to again choose slow and careful planning over hastened decisions. It's impossible to plan or discuss anything without knowing what matters. Nemo -- Project director Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin Tel. +49-30-219 158 26-0 | http://wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are there plans for interactions between wikidata and wiktionaries ?
Hoi, If there is one thing that would be extremely powerful, it would be combining lexical information with Commons. I presented about this in Alexandria at Wikimania and, it is still true. It makes sense to allow people to search for a paard or a cheval or a حصانhttp://www.omegawiki.org/Expression:%D8%AD%D8%B5%D8%A7%D9%86. They would get pictures of a horse. This is what we have shown in OmegaWiki, this is functionality that fulfils a real life need. What we need is searching for pictures in Commons. When there is lexical information in a language about a subject and, there is no Wikipedia article, we can point to the articles in another language. This can be a language we know the user knows As far as I am concerned, adding interwiki links to all the other projects is nice. It needs to be done but the added functionality is minimal. The real challenge for Wikidata is opening up data in multiple languages. THAT is what you need lexical data for. Lexical data can be found in Wiktionary and in OmegaWiki. What you can find in OmegaWiki is the proof of the pudding; this is not pie in the sky. It is feasible, it has been done. It can be done again. Thanks, GerardM On 11 March 2013 15:16, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Denny Vrandečić, 11/03/2013 14:52: There is currently a number of things going on re the future of Wiktionary. There is, for example, the suggestion to adopt OmegaWiki, which could potentially complicate a Wikibase-Solution in the future (but then again, structured data is often rather easy to transform): http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Requests_for_comment/**Adopt_OmegaWikihttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Adopt_OmegaWiki There is this grant proposal for elaborating the future of Wiktionary, which I consider a potentially smarter first step: http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_** Wikisource_strategic_visionhttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vision That's Wikisource. :) There's this discussion on Wikdiata itself: https://www.wikidata.org/**wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionaryhttps://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary And I know that Daniel K. is very interested in working into this direction. Personally, I regard Wiktionary as the third priority, following Wikipedia and Commons. A lot of the other projects -- like Wikivoyage or Wikisource -- can be served with only small changes to Wikidata as it is, but both Commons and Wiktionary would require a bit of thought (and here again, Commons much less than Wiktionary). Actually Wikiquote and Wikivoyage use interwikis exactly like Wikipedia; Commons in the same way except it's interproject; Wiktionary in the same way except it's case-sensitive and not about concepts (opr about a stricter definition of concept); Wikisource in a completely different way; Wikibooks, Wikinews and Wikiversity I'm not sure. As for phase II, it's another story. Wikisource and Commons would benefit a lot from it; for Wiktionary it could be a revolution; for Wikispecies idem but with less effort (?); Wikiquote would become I would appreciate a discussion with the Wiktionary-Communities, and also to make them more aware of the OmegaWiki proposal, the potential of Wikidata for Wiktionary, etc. Just to give a comparison: it took a few months to write the original Wikidata proposal, and it was up for discussion for several months before it was decided and acted upon. I would strongly advise to again choose slow and careful planning over hastened decisions. It's impossible to plan or discuss anything without knowing what matters. Nemo __**_ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.**org Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are there plans for interactions between wikidata and wiktionaries ?
Hoi, There is no point at all in maintaining the software currently used by OmegaWiki. That would be foolish. Nobody who knows OmegaWiki will ask for that. What we are asking for is that we ensure that the structures that exist in OmegaWiki are replicated in Wikidata for reasons that are clear and obvious. Technically there are a few things that make sense to have.. For instance.. In the Dutch language we have a noun, a verb an adjective we do not have a country in this class. A noun can be male, female or neutral we do not have a stupid. We have singular and plural and we do not have dual like in Arabic. When there is a concept, we have synonyms and translations that are used as such but do not cover the original concept well. We want to be able to indicate this. Really Denny, all we need is to keep the structure, the data. We do not even want to be dogmatic about this (too much). What we want are things that fulfil a need, that have a purpose. Thanks, GerardM On 11 March 2013 15:51, Denny Vrandečić denny.vrande...@wikimedia.dewrote: Sorry about the wrong link, I meant this IEG proposal: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Wiktionary_-_the_way_it_should_be but as far as I can tell, this one didn't make it into round 1 (pity, something like that would have made sense, but I understand that the proposal was obviously not detailed enough. Whatever.) I fully agree with Andrea and Nemo that some use cases would be very easy to implement, especially linking between the projects. Commons and Wiktionary though are very different and require more thought: Commons: * easy goals: link to appropriate items for some of the pages in Commons, use data from Wikidata in the creator namespace and similar * more engaging: add metadata to the media files in Commons itself and link them to each other and to Wikidata Wiktionary: * easy goals: none. The conceptualization of Wiktionary simply is not a direct fit to the conceptualization in Wikipedia and Wikidata. We need to figure out how they work together. Maybe this page is a good start, and maybe we should collect the ideas there. https://www.wikidata.org/**wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary I mean, OmegaWiki has been around for a while, and they learned many, extremely valuable lessons. A lot of work has went into it, and it would be a shame not to build on its experiences and lessons. But I would like to ask the question whether it is the right software or not, even though it is a painful question. But please be reminded that I have spent many years in the development of Semantic MediaWiki, with the one goal to have it switched on the Wikipedias -- and then to come to the conclusion to *not* use the software as is, and start from scratch. We need a discussion on Wiktionary, and how it can evolve, and if it even should. And I do not think that a cross-mailing list discussion like the current one is the right place, and I do not even know where the right place is. So, first question: where should this discussion take place? Cheers, Denny 2013/3/11 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com Denny Vrandečić, 11/03/2013 14:52: There is currently a number of things going on re the future of Wiktionary. There is, for example, the suggestion to adopt OmegaWiki, which could potentially complicate a Wikibase-Solution in the future (but then again, structured data is often rather easy to transform): http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Requests_for_comment/**Adopt_OmegaWiki http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Adopt_OmegaWiki There is this grant proposal for elaborating the future of Wiktionary, which I consider a potentially smarter first step: http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_** Wikisource_strategic_vision http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vision That's Wikisource. :) There's this discussion on Wikdiata itself: https://www.wikidata.org/**wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary And I know that Daniel K. is very interested in working into this direction. Personally, I regard Wiktionary as the third priority, following Wikipedia and Commons. A lot of the other projects -- like Wikivoyage or Wikisource -- can be served with only small changes to Wikidata as it is, but both Commons and Wiktionary would require a bit of thought (and here again, Commons much less than Wiktionary). Actually Wikiquote and Wikivoyage use interwikis exactly like Wikipedia; Commons in the same way except it's interproject; Wiktionary in the same way except it's case-sensitive and not about concepts (opr about a stricter definition of concept); Wikisource in a completely different way; Wikibooks, Wikinews and Wikiversity I'm not sure. As for phase II, it's another story.
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are there plans for interactions between wikidata and wiktionaries ?
Thank you for the clarification, Gerard. I was indeed misunderstanding the proposal. We need to find a central place to discuss a proposal. 2013/3/11 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com Hoi, There is no point at all in maintaining the software currently used by OmegaWiki. That would be foolish. Nobody who knows OmegaWiki will ask for that. What we are asking for is that we ensure that the structures that exist in OmegaWiki are replicated in Wikidata for reasons that are clear and obvious. Technically there are a few things that make sense to have.. For instance.. In the Dutch language we have a noun, a verb an adjective we do not have a country in this class. A noun can be male, female or neutral we do not have a stupid. We have singular and plural and we do not have dual like in Arabic. When there is a concept, we have synonyms and translations that are used as such but do not cover the original concept well. We want to be able to indicate this. Really Denny, all we need is to keep the structure, the data. We do not even want to be dogmatic about this (too much). What we want are things that fulfil a need, that have a purpose. Thanks, GerardM On 11 March 2013 15:51, Denny Vrandečić denny.vrande...@wikimedia.de wrote: Sorry about the wrong link, I meant this IEG proposal: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Wiktionary_-_the_way_it_should_be but as far as I can tell, this one didn't make it into round 1 (pity, something like that would have made sense, but I understand that the proposal was obviously not detailed enough. Whatever.) I fully agree with Andrea and Nemo that some use cases would be very easy to implement, especially linking between the projects. Commons and Wiktionary though are very different and require more thought: Commons: * easy goals: link to appropriate items for some of the pages in Commons, use data from Wikidata in the creator namespace and similar * more engaging: add metadata to the media files in Commons itself and link them to each other and to Wikidata Wiktionary: * easy goals: none. The conceptualization of Wiktionary simply is not a direct fit to the conceptualization in Wikipedia and Wikidata. We need to figure out how they work together. Maybe this page is a good start, and maybe we should collect the ideas there. https://www.wikidata.org/**wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary I mean, OmegaWiki has been around for a while, and they learned many, extremely valuable lessons. A lot of work has went into it, and it would be a shame not to build on its experiences and lessons. But I would like to ask the question whether it is the right software or not, even though it is a painful question. But please be reminded that I have spent many years in the development of Semantic MediaWiki, with the one goal to have it switched on the Wikipedias -- and then to come to the conclusion to *not* use the software as is, and start from scratch. We need a discussion on Wiktionary, and how it can evolve, and if it even should. And I do not think that a cross-mailing list discussion like the current one is the right place, and I do not even know where the right place is. So, first question: where should this discussion take place? Cheers, Denny 2013/3/11 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com Denny Vrandečić, 11/03/2013 14:52: There is currently a number of things going on re the future of Wiktionary. There is, for example, the suggestion to adopt OmegaWiki, which could potentially complicate a Wikibase-Solution in the future (but then again, structured data is often rather easy to transform): http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Requests_for_comment/**Adopt_OmegaWiki http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Adopt_OmegaWiki There is this grant proposal for elaborating the future of Wiktionary, which I consider a potentially smarter first step: http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_** Wikisource_strategic_vision http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vision That's Wikisource. :) There's this discussion on Wikdiata itself: https://www.wikidata.org/**wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary And I know that Daniel K. is very interested in working into this direction. Personally, I regard Wiktionary as the third priority, following Wikipedia and Commons. A lot of the other projects -- like Wikivoyage or Wikisource -- can be served with only small changes to Wikidata as it is, but both Commons and Wiktionary would require a bit of thought (and here again, Commons much less than Wiktionary). Actually Wikiquote and Wikivoyage use interwikis exactly like
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are there plans for interactions between wikidata and wiktionaries ?
On 11/03/13 16:14, Gerard Meijssen wrote: What we are asking for is that we ensure that the structures that exist in OmegaWiki are replicated in Wikidata for reasons that are clear and obvious. Technically there are a few things that make sense to have.. For instance.. In the Dutch language we have a noun, a verb an adjective we do not have a country in this class. A noun can be male, female or neutral we do not have a stupid. We have singular and plural and we do not have dual like in Arabic. Uh-oh. How will this square with http://blog.wikimedia.de/2013/02/22/restricting-the-world/ ? :) Perhaps this could be a feature of Wikibase that would not be turned on on Wikidata itself, but could be for other installations, such as the new Wiktionary. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין
אני לא בטוח שכתבה כזו תועיל למטרותינו בשום צורה. אם מישהו בכל זאת רוצה לספר את הסיפור, אני ממליץ להיזהר מלשון הרע. - אסף 2013/3/11 Itzik Edri it...@infra.co.il כתב מעיתון מוביל מבקש לדבר עם מישהו על בן הטבע. מישהו מעוניין? -- Forwarded message -- To: it...@wikimedia.org.il הי איציק, בהמשך לשיחתנו, אני מעוניין לדבר עם עורך שהיה שם מימיה הראשונים של ויקיפדיה העברית, ומכיר מקרוב את יהודה בלו, שערך בעבר תחת השם בן הטבע לפני שהושעה ונחסם. ברצוני לשמוע את הסיפור המלא על מה שקרה שם, ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
[Wikimedia-l] Mid-Year Financial Statements
Hello: The mid-year financial statements of the Wikimedia Foundation are available at the Wikimedia Foundation - Financial Reports page.http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Financial_reports This report is for the period from July 1, 2012 to December 31, 2012. Please contact me with any questions. Regards, Garfield Byrd -- Garfield Byrd Chief of Finance and Administration Wikimedia Foundation 415.839.6885 ext 6787 415.882.0495 (fax) www.wikimediafoundation.org Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! *https://donate.wikimedia.org* ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
[Wikimedia-l] MediaWiki data browser
There seems to be considerable interest on this email list about WikiData and similar projects, so I think some people may be interested in this proposal at Individual Engagement Grants. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/MediaWiki_data_browser. Note that the community comment period is closed and the Committee has finished its evaluations of all IEG proposals that passed the initial eligibility screening. Further work is being done by WMF. The scheduled announcement date for grant selections from this IEG round is March 29. Pine ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין
Oops. Just noticed that I sent this email to Wikimedia-L instead of WMIL mailing list. Sorry! :) 2013/3/11 Manuel Schneider manuel.schnei...@wikimedia.ch מצטער, אני לא מדבר עברית. מנואל Am 11.03.2013 14:36, schrieb Itzik Edri: כתב מעיתון מוביל מבקש לדבר עם מישהו על בן הטבע. מישהו מעוניין? -- Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Lausanne, +41 (21) 34066-22 - www.wikimedia.ch ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין
On 3/11/2013 12:47 PM, Itzik Edri wrote: Oops. Just noticed that I sent this email to Wikimedia-L instead of WMIL mailing list. Sorry! :) Too bad - I was hoping it was a sign that people were taking seriously the notion that this could be a multilingual mailing list, not just English-only. --Michael Snow ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Mid-Year Financial Statements
Garfield, Thanks for the report. Congrats again to the fundraising team for what they accomplished this for this round of fundraising. The QA for the mid-year report talks about a hiring pace that is slower than planned, and says We attribute this to the fact that the market for engineers is extremely competitive in San Francisco right now. I'd like to ask you or Gayle about how aggressive WMF is about recruiting outside of SF. I think there are probably engineers at large tech companies outside of SF who would enjoy a change of culture from their current employers to WMF if they're willing to take a pay cut. I think that they would be good candidates for the recruiting team, so I'd strongly encourage aggressive recruiting outside of San Francisco. Thanks, Pine ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין
On 11 March 2013 19:56, Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.com wrote: Too bad - I was hoping it was a sign that people were taking seriously the notion that this could be a multilingual mailing list, not just English-only. Me too, I thought it was rather refreshing for folks to be corresponding here in something other than English; even though that's all I can read. :-) Fae -- Ashley Van Haeften (Fae) fae...@gmail.com Chapters Association Council Chair http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCA Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/mfae ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Mid-Year Financial Statements
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 1:06 PM, ENWP Pine deyntest...@hotmail.com wrote: I'd like to ask you or Gayle about how aggressive WMF is about recruiting outside of SF. I'm not Gayle or Garfield, but here's some simple data on the most recent hires: Sr. Software Engineer, Mobile - to be announced shortly - remote, not relocating Sr. Software Engineer, Mobile - to be announced shortly - remote, relocating to SF Ops Engineer (offer pending) - remote, not relocating Greg Grossmeier, Release Manager - SF Ed Sanders, Software Engineer, remote, not relocating Brad Jorsch, Software Engineer, remote, probably relocating Munagala Ramanath, Sr. Software Engineer, remote, relocating Contractors: Marc-Andre Pelletier, Software Engineer, remote Kirsten Menger-Anderson, Technical Writer, SF So the general answer is, yes, we're aggressively [*] looking internationally, and we're aggressively hiring internationally, with the caveat that some positions are strongly preferred to (ultimately) be SF-based to function effectively. Erik [*] When it comes to persistence and thoroughness. In actual candidate interactions aggression would be somewhat misplaced. ;-) -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין
Hoi, grin there is always Google translate ... works quite nicely from within gmail for many languages. Thanks, Gerard On 11 March 2013 21:11, Fae fae...@gmail.com wrote: On 11 March 2013 19:56, Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.com wrote: Too bad - I was hoping it was a sign that people were taking seriously the notion that this could be a multilingual mailing list, not just English-only. Me too, I thought it was rather refreshing for folks to be corresponding here in something other than English; even though that's all I can read. :-) Fae -- Ashley Van Haeften (Fae) fae...@gmail.com Chapters Association Council Chair http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCA Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/mfae ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Mid-Year Financial Statements
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: Brad Jorsch, Software Engineer, remote, probably relocating Eventually. No idea when. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין
I too thought the gmail translate worked really well, until I saw Asaf suggest they stop using bad words - which I guess gmail stripped out, because I didn't see any! ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין
No bad words. My phrase was לשון הרע, which is a legal term in Israel, originating in Jewish religious law[1], roughly equivalent to defamation or the Roman law 'calumnia', and I was advocating _avoiding_ that if anyone chooses to discuss this person (from the Hebrew Wikipedia's past) with the press. A. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashon_hara On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: I too thought the gmail translate worked really well, until I saw Asaf suggest they stop using bad words - which I guess gmail stripped out, because I didn't see any! ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are there plans for interactions between wikidata and wiktionaries ?
On Tuesday, 12 March 2013, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: Gerard Meijssen, 11/03/2013 17:51: PS as to restricting the world... we do not allow people to state that Julius Caesar is a contemporary of Napoleon Bonaparte in Wikipedia either do we ? I'm quite sure we do. Nemo To clarify for my own sake (and hopefully others), are we talking about the difference between being technically able to do something (I.e. the software permits a behaviour), as opposed to the policy saying you can do something (I.e. the community has decided that a behaviour is acceptable or desired)? -- wittylama.com Peace, love metadata ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין
Good morning all, I also strongly agree and support when we can use multi language in this mailing list, such as by including the Indonesian language into the “Wikimedia Mailing List” (wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org). May GOD Bless All of You! Best Regards, Claudius Erwin Mulialim Owner Q-Tech Computer - Ruteng (CV. Montée Vista Media Vision) - From: abar...@wikimedia.org Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:10:15 -0700 To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין No bad words. My phrase was לשון הרע, which is a legal term in Israel, originating in Jewish religious law[1], roughly equivalent to defamation or the Roman law 'calumnia', and I was advocating _avoiding_ that if anyone chooses to discuss this person (from the Hebrew Wikipedia's past) with the press. A. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashon_hara On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: I too thought the gmail translate worked really well, until I saw Asaf suggest they stop using bad words - which I guess gmail stripped out, because I didn't see any! ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין
Good morning all, I also strongly agree and support when we can use multi language in this mailing list, such as by including the Indonesian language into the “Wikimedia Mailing List” (wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org). May GOD Bless All of You! Best Regards, Claudius Erwin Mulialim Owner Q-Tech Computer - Ruteng (CV. Montée Vista Media Vision) - From: abar...@wikimedia.org Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:10:15 -0700 To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין No bad words. My phrase was לשון הרע, which is a legal term in Israel, originating in Jewish religious law[1], roughly equivalent to defamation or the Roman law 'calumnia', and I was advocating _avoiding_ that if anyone chooses to discuss this person (from the Hebrew Wikipedia's past) with the press. A. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashon_hara On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: I too thought the gmail translate worked really well, until I saw Asaf suggest they stop using bad words - which I guess gmail stripped out, because I didn't see any! ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין
Και εγώ συμφωνώ, ας γράψουμε σε όλες τις κλασικές γλώσσες. :) - Μάρκος On 3/12/13 3:44 AM, Erwin Mulialim wrote: Good morning all, I also strongly agree and support when we can use multi language in this mailing list, such as by including the Indonesian language into the “Wikimedia Mailing List” (wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org). May GOD Bless All of You! Best Regards, Claudius Erwin Mulialim Owner Q-Tech Computer - Ruteng (CV. Montée Vista Media Vision) - From: abar...@wikimedia.org Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:10:15 -0700 To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין No bad words. My phrase was לשון הרע, which is a legal term in Israel, originating in Jewish religious law[1], roughly equivalent to defamation or the Roman law 'calumnia', and I was advocating _avoiding_ that if anyone chooses to discuss this person (from the Hebrew Wikipedia's past) with the press. A. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashon_hara On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: I too thought the gmail translate worked really well, until I saw Asaf suggest they stop using bad words - which I guess gmail stripped out, because I didn't see any! ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
