[Wikimedia-l] Berkman Klein Center: Will Wikipedia exist in 20 years?

[Andreas Kolbe]

Video featuring Katherine Maher, Executive Director of the Wikimedia
Foundation, in conversation with Harvard Law School Professor Yochai
Benkler:

https://cyber.harvard.edu/events/2017/luncheon/10/Maher

The material in this video touches on many points related to the Wikimedia
movement's strategic direction, as discussed in other current threads on
this list.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikitribune!

[Lodewijk]

Well, someone announcing such a project could also be seen as a disclosure.
And answering initial questions around such announcement/disclosure is
something different from using this as the go-to place to ask those
questions.

The way you're phrasing this mostly leaves an impression that you're trying
to 'catch' jimmy in something, not sure if that was indeed the case. If you
genuinly just want to see curiosity answered, emailing direction seems most
sensible in this case. If you're concerned that there are conflicts with
Wikimedia's mission at this point, this list is probably the right venue -
but then you should be clearer about it.

Lodewijk

On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Fæ  wrote:

> That's a useful distinction Isaac, thanks.
>
> If Jimmy uses this list to start another thread about Wikitribune, we
> should raise that with him. Sadly nobody thought to raise that issue
> when there were only super positive comments about what a great idea
> Jimmy's new company was.
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
>
> On 21 October 2017 at 18:55, Isaac Olatunde 
> wrote:
> > Fae, Wikitribune is not a Wikimedia project but a project owned by one of
> > the Foundation's trustee, Jimbo. Thus, any question about Wikitribune
> should
> > be sent to Jimbo. I don't just see the need for this thread if there is a
> > possibility to ask Jimbo personally.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Isaac.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Oct 21, 2017 3:48 PM, "Fæ"  wrote:
> >>
> >> On 21 October 2017 at 13:05, Isaac Olatunde 
> >> wrote:
> >> > Hi Fae,
> >> >
> >> > Is there a possibility for you to contact Jimbo or any Wikitribune
> staff
> >> > member about this? I don't just think a thread here on what has
> happened
> >> > to
> >> > Wikitribune serves any useful purpose.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > Isaac.
> >> >
> >> > On Oct 21, 2017 12:45 PM, "Fæ"  wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 25 April 2017 at 22:59, Jimmy Wales 
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Today I announced a new initiative, outside of my Wikimedia
> >> >> > activities,
> >> >> > to combat fake news. It is important to me that I share directly
> with
> >> >> > all of you information about this new initiative early on.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The new project  will use a wiki-style setup and experiment with
> >> >> > bringing together professional journalists and community
> contributors
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > produce fact-checked, global news stories.  At launch, we'll be
> using
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > hacked version of wordpress and we'll be evaluating whether that's
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > right tool moving forward.  Wordpress has a lot to
> >> >> > commend it (free software, mature platform, used by lots of
> >> >> > newsrooms,
> >> >> > active developer ecosystem) but also has some philosophy that's
> quite
> >> >> > "top down" in a way.
> >> >> > (Not many people would think in a wiki way when setting up a
> >> >> > newsroom!)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > This new initiative, Wikitribune, will be a learning experience -
> my
> >> >> > vision is one that I've had a hard time explaining... except to
> >> >> > Wikimedians who tend to immediately
> >> >> > get it.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > While I am launching this project independent from Wikipedia and
> the
> >> >> > Wikimedia Foundation, it is my plan that this new project will work
> >> >> > alongside Wikimedia in the free knowledge movement. For example, I
> >> >> > hope
> >> >> > that the numerous Wikinews/Wikinoticias/Wikinotizie/etc.
> communities
> >> >> > can
> >> >> > collaborate with the  Wikitribune community in way that allows both
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > learn and benefit from each other. Additionally, Wikitribune will
> >> >> > utilize the same Creative Commons license (CC-BY) as other free
> >> >> > content
> >> >> > projects in
> >> >> > the news space - so they can take the stories written by our
> >> >> > professional journalists and communities and make use of them.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You can find out more information about Wikitribune at:
> >> >> > https://www.wikitribune.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thank you for your time and I'm happy to answer questions!  (But
> I'm
> >> >> > quite swamped with everything at the moment so please forgive me
> if I
> >> >> > answer in bursts!)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --Jimbo
> >> >>
> >> >> Would anyone like to give an update, with some verifiable sources, on
> >> >> what has happened to Wikitribune? Perhaps it will remain at an
> >> >> indefinite "venture capital stage" with no launch date, or maybe
> there
> >> >> been a decision to pull the plug?
> >> >>
> >> >> I have been hunting around for publications since the announcement on
> >> >> this list, and believe there has been none apart from a poorly judged
> >> >> "taster" article, based on an interview with Richard Curtis, which
> >> >> appeared intended to promote a forthcoming charity event aimed at
> >> >> media luvvies. The "taster" had a poor reception for its bias and
> >> >> errors.[1][2][3]
> >> >>
> >> >> In the light of how huge "fake news" has become this ye

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikitribune!

[Fæ]

That's a useful distinction Isaac, thanks.

If Jimmy uses this list to start another thread about Wikitribune, we
should raise that with him. Sadly nobody thought to raise that issue
when there were only super positive comments about what a great idea
Jimmy's new company was.

Thanks,
Fae

On 21 October 2017 at 18:55, Isaac Olatunde  wrote:
> Fae, Wikitribune is not a Wikimedia project but a project owned by one of
> the Foundation's trustee, Jimbo. Thus, any question about Wikitribune should
> be sent to Jimbo. I don't just see the need for this thread if there is a
> possibility to ask Jimbo personally.
>
> Regards,
>
> Isaac.
>
>
>
> On Oct 21, 2017 3:48 PM, "Fæ"  wrote:
>>
>> On 21 October 2017 at 13:05, Isaac Olatunde 
>> wrote:
>> > Hi Fae,
>> >
>> > Is there a possibility for you to contact Jimbo or any Wikitribune staff
>> > member about this? I don't just think a thread here on what has happened
>> > to
>> > Wikitribune serves any useful purpose.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Isaac.
>> >
>> > On Oct 21, 2017 12:45 PM, "Fæ"  wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 25 April 2017 at 22:59, Jimmy Wales 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Today I announced a new initiative, outside of my Wikimedia
>> >> > activities,
>> >> > to combat fake news. It is important to me that I share directly with
>> >> > all of you information about this new initiative early on.
>> >> >
>> >> > The new project  will use a wiki-style setup and experiment with
>> >> > bringing together professional journalists and community contributors
>> >> > to
>> >> > produce fact-checked, global news stories.  At launch, we'll be using
>> >> > a
>> >> > hacked version of wordpress and we'll be evaluating whether that's
>> >> > the
>> >> > right tool moving forward.  Wordpress has a lot to
>> >> > commend it (free software, mature platform, used by lots of
>> >> > newsrooms,
>> >> > active developer ecosystem) but also has some philosophy that's quite
>> >> > "top down" in a way.
>> >> > (Not many people would think in a wiki way when setting up a
>> >> > newsroom!)
>> >> >
>> >> > This new initiative, Wikitribune, will be a learning experience - my
>> >> > vision is one that I've had a hard time explaining... except to
>> >> > Wikimedians who tend to immediately
>> >> > get it.
>> >> >
>> >> > While I am launching this project independent from Wikipedia and the
>> >> > Wikimedia Foundation, it is my plan that this new project will work
>> >> > alongside Wikimedia in the free knowledge movement. For example, I
>> >> > hope
>> >> > that the numerous Wikinews/Wikinoticias/Wikinotizie/etc. communities
>> >> > can
>> >> > collaborate with the  Wikitribune community in way that allows both
>> >> > to
>> >> > learn and benefit from each other. Additionally, Wikitribune will
>> >> > utilize the same Creative Commons license (CC-BY) as other free
>> >> > content
>> >> > projects in
>> >> > the news space - so they can take the stories written by our
>> >> > professional journalists and communities and make use of them.
>> >> >
>> >> > You can find out more information about Wikitribune at:
>> >> > https://www.wikitribune.com
>> >> >
>> >> > Thank you for your time and I'm happy to answer questions!  (But I'm
>> >> > quite swamped with everything at the moment so please forgive me if I
>> >> > answer in bursts!)
>> >> >
>> >> > --Jimbo
>> >>
>> >> Would anyone like to give an update, with some verifiable sources, on
>> >> what has happened to Wikitribune? Perhaps it will remain at an
>> >> indefinite "venture capital stage" with no launch date, or maybe there
>> >> been a decision to pull the plug?
>> >>
>> >> I have been hunting around for publications since the announcement on
>> >> this list, and believe there has been none apart from a poorly judged
>> >> "taster" article, based on an interview with Richard Curtis, which
>> >> appeared intended to promote a forthcoming charity event aimed at
>> >> media luvvies. The "taster" had a poor reception for its bias and
>> >> errors.[1][2][3]
>> >>
>> >> In the light of how huge "fake news" has become this year, it is
>> >> surprising that the team of journalists employed by Wikitribune for
>> >> over six months (fack check please?) have missed out on the
>> >> opportunity to be seen influencing press coverage of say, Trump,
>> >> Brexit, Facebook ads or even planet Niburi by providing their own fact
>> >> checks.
>> >>
>> >> Links:
>> >> 1. Taster article:
>> >> https://medium.com/wikitribune/wikitribune-taster-1-the-great-and-the-
>> >> good-meet-to-promote-un-global-goals-729a22401bd3
>> >> 2. Times response to the taster:
>> >>
>> >> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jimmy-wales-wikitribune-s-weak-debut-
>> >> rattles-backers-lily-cole-5zs3q37gs
>> >> 3. Related announcement of launch edition, Aug 2017:
>> >> https://www.journalism.co.uk/news/wikitribune-announces-
>> >> launch-editor-and-plans-to-publish-first-edition-this-year/s2/a708086/
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Fae
>> >> --
>> >> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] October 12: Strategy update - Movement direction now posted for your endorsement consideration (#26)

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Sandra,

Thank you for your mail. For me, this is not specifically about Guillaume.
I referred to him as he has answered to me about "oral traditions",
supporting them.

I know that the way to this text was a long one; I have read papers on this
way and was appalled. Now I find it difficult not to believe that this is a
slippery slope.

Kind regards,
Ziko






2017-10-21 18:14 GMT+02:00 Sandra Rientjes - Wikimedia Nederland <
rient...@wikimedia.nl>:

> Hi Ziko,
>
> Just a quick reaction to the last sentence of your message where you
> express your concern about oral traditions as a source and say 'Guillaume
> emphasized that he still wants to go this way.'
>
> To some, this could give the impression that Guillaume is responsible for
> what went in the text and what did not.  As Katherine mentioned in her
> message, drafting the strategic direction was a group process. (FYI, I was
> part of that group)  Guillaume had the unenviable task of making sense of
> all the suggestions, input and comments, and produce meaningful and
> readable text.  Frankly, I don't know anyone who could have done that job
> better. So, it is not so much that 'Guillaume still wants to go this way',
> but rather 'the drafting group believes the movement-wide consultation
> points this way.'
>
> I understand your concerns - and I know that they come from your deep
> commitment to the quality and the reliability of the Wikimedia projects.
> Your comments have already started some interesting discussions - on this
> list and in other places - about how oral traditions/sources could and
> should be used in a responsible way.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Sandra Rientjes
> Directeur/Executive Director Wikimedia Nederland
>
>
>
> 2017-10-21 14:20 GMT+02:00 Ziko van Dijk :
>
> > Hello Nicole,
> >
> > Thank you. I just wonder - if the rest is presented this way, people
> might
> > think that it belongs to the direction, and what the relationship between
> > both is. And I'm afraid, that later the Foundation will claim that the
> rest
> > is important or an important (authoritative) interpretation that will
> > influence the following discussions. There will be confusion what exactly
> > is endorsed an can be used (abused) in those following discussions.
> >
> > For example, I am very concerned that the "oral traditions" are still in
> > the game, especially as Guillaume emphasized that he still wants to go
> this
> > way.
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Ziko
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2017-10-21 1:52 GMT+02:00 Nicole Ebber :
> >
> > > Hi Ziko,
> > >
> > > Quick response regarding the endorsement: We will ask people to only
> > > endorse the strategic direction in the green box and the short section
> > > underneath with the next steps.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Nicole
> > >
> > > On 21 October 2017 at 01:02, Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
> > >
> > > > 2017-10-20 23:10 GMT+02:00 Katherine Maher :
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I am optimistic that this strategic direction provides every
> > individual
> > > > and
> > > > > entity within the Wikimedia movement something to be excited about.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello, it is not about what I might be excited about - I wonder in
> > which
> > > > ways the document will be used in a way I find problematic for the
> > > > community.
> > > >
> > > > I am still curious about the links in the "See also" section:
> > > >
> > > >- Appendix
> > > > > > > movement/2017/Direction/Appendix>:
> > > >More information about the process, research, and findings that
> led
> > to
> > > > this
> > > >outcome.
> > > >- A report of findings
> > > > > > > movement/2017/Findings>
> > > >is being written and many references on this page will be updated
> to
> > > > point
> > > >to its content.
> > > >
> > > > Are those (and the footnotes) part of the "direction" document? Will
> > > people
> > > > who endorse the document also endorse them?
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > >
> > > > Ziko
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Beginning on October 26, we will be asking for individual
> > contributors
> > > > and
> > > > > organized groups to endorse this new strategic direction for our
> > > > movement.
> > > > > I encourage you to spend the intervening days discussing this
> > direction
> > > > and
> > > > > determining if you and/or your group will be endorsing it. You will
> > > find
> > > > > more information about the endorsement day and the process on the
> > > > > direction’s meta page next week.
> > > > >
> > > > > The endorsement concludes phase 1 of the process, and we are
> > currently
> > > > > drafting the next steps of the process. The main goal of phase 2
> will
> > > be
> > > > to
> > > > > answer the question "How do we implement the strategic direction",
> > > which
> > > > > means identifying 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] October 12: Strategy update - Movement direction now posted for your endorsement consideration (#26)

[Sandra Rientjes - Wikimedia Nederland]

Hi Ziko,

Just a quick reaction to the last sentence of your message where you
express your concern about oral traditions as a source and say 'Guillaume
emphasized that he still wants to go this way.'

To some, this could give the impression that Guillaume is responsible for
what went in the text and what did not.  As Katherine mentioned in her
message, drafting the strategic direction was a group process. (FYI, I was
part of that group)  Guillaume had the unenviable task of making sense of
all the suggestions, input and comments, and produce meaningful and
readable text.  Frankly, I don't know anyone who could have done that job
better. So, it is not so much that 'Guillaume still wants to go this way',
but rather 'the drafting group believes the movement-wide consultation
points this way.'

I understand your concerns - and I know that they come from your deep
commitment to the quality and the reliability of the Wikimedia projects.
Your comments have already started some interesting discussions - on this
list and in other places - about how oral traditions/sources could and
should be used in a responsible way.

Best regards,


Sandra Rientjes
Directeur/Executive Director Wikimedia Nederland



2017-10-21 14:20 GMT+02:00 Ziko van Dijk :

> Hello Nicole,
>
> Thank you. I just wonder - if the rest is presented this way, people might
> think that it belongs to the direction, and what the relationship between
> both is. And I'm afraid, that later the Foundation will claim that the rest
> is important or an important (authoritative) interpretation that will
> influence the following discussions. There will be confusion what exactly
> is endorsed an can be used (abused) in those following discussions.
>
> For example, I am very concerned that the "oral traditions" are still in
> the game, especially as Guillaume emphasized that he still wants to go this
> way.
>
> Kind regards
> Ziko
>
>
>
>
> 2017-10-21 1:52 GMT+02:00 Nicole Ebber :
>
> > Hi Ziko,
> >
> > Quick response regarding the endorsement: We will ask people to only
> > endorse the strategic direction in the green box and the short section
> > underneath with the next steps.
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Nicole
> >
> > On 21 October 2017 at 01:02, Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
> >
> > > 2017-10-20 23:10 GMT+02:00 Katherine Maher :
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I am optimistic that this strategic direction provides every
> individual
> > > and
> > > > entity within the Wikimedia movement something to be excited about.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hello, it is not about what I might be excited about - I wonder in
> which
> > > ways the document will be used in a way I find problematic for the
> > > community.
> > >
> > > I am still curious about the links in the "See also" section:
> > >
> > >- Appendix
> > > > > movement/2017/Direction/Appendix>:
> > >More information about the process, research, and findings that led
> to
> > > this
> > >outcome.
> > >- A report of findings
> > > > > movement/2017/Findings>
> > >is being written and many references on this page will be updated to
> > > point
> > >to its content.
> > >
> > > Are those (and the footnotes) part of the "direction" document? Will
> > people
> > > who endorse the document also endorse them?
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > >
> > > Ziko
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Beginning on October 26, we will be asking for individual
> contributors
> > > and
> > > > organized groups to endorse this new strategic direction for our
> > > movement.
> > > > I encourage you to spend the intervening days discussing this
> direction
> > > and
> > > > determining if you and/or your group will be endorsing it. You will
> > find
> > > > more information about the endorsement day and the process on the
> > > > direction’s meta page next week.
> > > >
> > > > The endorsement concludes phase 1 of the process, and we are
> currently
> > > > drafting the next steps of the process. The main goal of phase 2 will
> > be
> > > to
> > > > answer the question "How do we implement the strategic direction",
> > which
> > > > means identifying the resources needed for execution, and the
> > activities
> > > it
> > > > involves. A first rough overview of this phase is being developed on
> > > Meta.
> > > > Take a look! [2]
> > > >
> > > > On a different note, we have completed the move into our new office
> > space
> > > > at One Montgomery Tower![3] Once again, thank you to everyone on
> staff
> > > who
> > > > was involved in making the move so seamless, and to all of you for
> your
> > > > patience over the past couple of weeks. Later this month, once we are
> > > more
> > > > settled in, we will be sharing photos and information about our new
> > space
> > > > on the Wikimedia Blog.
> > > >
> > > > Stay tuned!
> > > >
> > > > መልካም ቀን። (Amharic translation: “H

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikitribune!

[Fæ]

On 21 October 2017 at 13:05, Isaac Olatunde  wrote:
> Hi Fae,
>
> Is there a possibility for you to contact Jimbo or any Wikitribune staff
> member about this? I don't just think a thread here on what has happened to
> Wikitribune serves any useful purpose.
>
> Regards,
>
> Isaac.
>
> On Oct 21, 2017 12:45 PM, "Fæ"  wrote:
>
>> On 25 April 2017 at 22:59, Jimmy Wales  wrote:
>> >
>> > Today I announced a new initiative, outside of my Wikimedia activities,
>> > to combat fake news. It is important to me that I share directly with
>> > all of you information about this new initiative early on.
>> >
>> > The new project  will use a wiki-style setup and experiment with
>> > bringing together professional journalists and community contributors to
>> > produce fact-checked, global news stories.  At launch, we'll be using a
>> > hacked version of wordpress and we'll be evaluating whether that's the
>> > right tool moving forward.  Wordpress has a lot to
>> > commend it (free software, mature platform, used by lots of newsrooms,
>> > active developer ecosystem) but also has some philosophy that's quite
>> > "top down" in a way.
>> > (Not many people would think in a wiki way when setting up a newsroom!)
>> >
>> > This new initiative, Wikitribune, will be a learning experience - my
>> > vision is one that I've had a hard time explaining... except to
>> > Wikimedians who tend to immediately
>> > get it.
>> >
>> > While I am launching this project independent from Wikipedia and the
>> > Wikimedia Foundation, it is my plan that this new project will work
>> > alongside Wikimedia in the free knowledge movement. For example, I hope
>> > that the numerous Wikinews/Wikinoticias/Wikinotizie/etc. communities can
>> > collaborate with the  Wikitribune community in way that allows both to
>> > learn and benefit from each other. Additionally, Wikitribune will
>> > utilize the same Creative Commons license (CC-BY) as other free content
>> > projects in
>> > the news space - so they can take the stories written by our
>> > professional journalists and communities and make use of them.
>> >
>> > You can find out more information about Wikitribune at:
>> > https://www.wikitribune.com
>> >
>> > Thank you for your time and I'm happy to answer questions!  (But I'm
>> > quite swamped with everything at the moment so please forgive me if I
>> > answer in bursts!)
>> >
>> > --Jimbo
>>
>> Would anyone like to give an update, with some verifiable sources, on
>> what has happened to Wikitribune? Perhaps it will remain at an
>> indefinite "venture capital stage" with no launch date, or maybe there
>> been a decision to pull the plug?
>>
>> I have been hunting around for publications since the announcement on
>> this list, and believe there has been none apart from a poorly judged
>> "taster" article, based on an interview with Richard Curtis, which
>> appeared intended to promote a forthcoming charity event aimed at
>> media luvvies. The "taster" had a poor reception for its bias and
>> errors.[1][2][3]
>>
>> In the light of how huge "fake news" has become this year, it is
>> surprising that the team of journalists employed by Wikitribune for
>> over six months (fack check please?) have missed out on the
>> opportunity to be seen influencing press coverage of say, Trump,
>> Brexit, Facebook ads or even planet Niburi by providing their own fact
>> checks.
>>
>> Links:
>> 1. Taster article:
>> https://medium.com/wikitribune/wikitribune-taster-1-the-great-and-the-
>> good-meet-to-promote-un-global-goals-729a22401bd3
>> 2. Times response to the taster:
>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jimmy-wales-wikitribune-s-weak-debut-
>> rattles-backers-lily-cole-5zs3q37gs
>> 3. Related announcement of launch edition, Aug 2017:
>> https://www.journalism.co.uk/news/wikitribune-announces-
>> launch-editor-and-plans-to-publish-first-edition-this-year/s2/a708086/
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Fae
>> --
>> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

Hi Isaac,

Jimmy Wales launched Wikitribune on this list, and was happy to answer
questions about it on this list.

So I guess it's an optimal place to raise questions, and I have no
reason to second guess Jimmy's judgement on the communication channels
he wants to use to talk about Wikitribune.

Thanks,
Fae
-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

___
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New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikitribune!

[Isaac Olatunde]

Hi Fae,

Is there a possibility for you to contact Jimbo or any Wikitribune staff
member about this? I don't just think a thread here on what has happened to
Wikitribune serves any useful purpose.

Regards,

Isaac.

On Oct 21, 2017 12:45 PM, "Fæ"  wrote:

> On 25 April 2017 at 22:59, Jimmy Wales  wrote:
> >
> > Today I announced a new initiative, outside of my Wikimedia activities,
> > to combat fake news. It is important to me that I share directly with
> > all of you information about this new initiative early on.
> >
> > The new project  will use a wiki-style setup and experiment with
> > bringing together professional journalists and community contributors to
> > produce fact-checked, global news stories.  At launch, we'll be using a
> > hacked version of wordpress and we'll be evaluating whether that's the
> > right tool moving forward.  Wordpress has a lot to
> > commend it (free software, mature platform, used by lots of newsrooms,
> > active developer ecosystem) but also has some philosophy that's quite
> > "top down" in a way.
> > (Not many people would think in a wiki way when setting up a newsroom!)
> >
> > This new initiative, Wikitribune, will be a learning experience - my
> > vision is one that I've had a hard time explaining... except to
> > Wikimedians who tend to immediately
> > get it.
> >
> > While I am launching this project independent from Wikipedia and the
> > Wikimedia Foundation, it is my plan that this new project will work
> > alongside Wikimedia in the free knowledge movement. For example, I hope
> > that the numerous Wikinews/Wikinoticias/Wikinotizie/etc. communities can
> > collaborate with the  Wikitribune community in way that allows both to
> > learn and benefit from each other. Additionally, Wikitribune will
> > utilize the same Creative Commons license (CC-BY) as other free content
> > projects in
> > the news space - so they can take the stories written by our
> > professional journalists and communities and make use of them.
> >
> > You can find out more information about Wikitribune at:
> > https://www.wikitribune.com
> >
> > Thank you for your time and I'm happy to answer questions!  (But I'm
> > quite swamped with everything at the moment so please forgive me if I
> > answer in bursts!)
> >
> > --Jimbo
>
> Would anyone like to give an update, with some verifiable sources, on
> what has happened to Wikitribune? Perhaps it will remain at an
> indefinite "venture capital stage" with no launch date, or maybe there
> been a decision to pull the plug?
>
> I have been hunting around for publications since the announcement on
> this list, and believe there has been none apart from a poorly judged
> "taster" article, based on an interview with Richard Curtis, which
> appeared intended to promote a forthcoming charity event aimed at
> media luvvies. The "taster" had a poor reception for its bias and
> errors.[1][2][3]
>
> In the light of how huge "fake news" has become this year, it is
> surprising that the team of journalists employed by Wikitribune for
> over six months (fack check please?) have missed out on the
> opportunity to be seen influencing press coverage of say, Trump,
> Brexit, Facebook ads or even planet Niburi by providing their own fact
> checks.
>
> Links:
> 1. Taster article:
> https://medium.com/wikitribune/wikitribune-taster-1-the-great-and-the-
> good-meet-to-promote-un-global-goals-729a22401bd3
> 2. Times response to the taster:
> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jimmy-wales-wikitribune-s-weak-debut-
> rattles-backers-lily-cole-5zs3q37gs
> 3. Related announcement of launch edition, Aug 2017:
> https://www.journalism.co.uk/news/wikitribune-announces-
> launch-editor-and-plans-to-publish-first-edition-this-year/s2/a708086/
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikitribune!

[Fæ]

On 21 October 2017 at 12:44, Fæ  wrote:
> On 25 April 2017 at 22:59, Jimmy Wales  wrote:
>>
>> Today I announced a new initiative, outside of my Wikimedia activities,
>> to combat fake news. It is important to me that I share directly with
>> all of you information about this new initiative early on.
>>
>> The new project  will use a wiki-style setup and experiment with
>> bringing together professional journalists and community contributors to
>> produce fact-checked, global news stories.  At launch, we'll be using a
>> hacked version of wordpress and we'll be evaluating whether that's the
>> right tool moving forward.  Wordpress has a lot to
>> commend it (free software, mature platform, used by lots of newsrooms,
>> active developer ecosystem) but also has some philosophy that's quite
>> "top down" in a way.
>> (Not many people would think in a wiki way when setting up a newsroom!)
>>
>> This new initiative, Wikitribune, will be a learning experience - my
>> vision is one that I've had a hard time explaining... except to
>> Wikimedians who tend to immediately
>> get it.
>>
>> While I am launching this project independent from Wikipedia and the
>> Wikimedia Foundation, it is my plan that this new project will work
>> alongside Wikimedia in the free knowledge movement. For example, I hope
>> that the numerous Wikinews/Wikinoticias/Wikinotizie/etc. communities can
>> collaborate with the  Wikitribune community in way that allows both to
>> learn and benefit from each other. Additionally, Wikitribune will
>> utilize the same Creative Commons license (CC-BY) as other free content
>> projects in
>> the news space - so they can take the stories written by our
>> professional journalists and communities and make use of them.
>>
>> You can find out more information about Wikitribune at:
>> https://www.wikitribune.com
>>
>> Thank you for your time and I'm happy to answer questions!  (But I'm
>> quite swamped with everything at the moment so please forgive me if I
>> answer in bursts!)
>>
>> --Jimbo
>
> Would anyone like to give an update, with some verifiable sources, on
> what has happened to Wikitribune? Perhaps it will remain at an
> indefinite "venture capital stage" with no launch date, or maybe there
> been a decision to pull the plug?
>
> I have been hunting around for publications since the announcement on
> this list, and believe there has been none apart from a poorly judged
> "taster" article, based on an interview with Richard Curtis, which
> appeared intended to promote a forthcoming charity event aimed at
> media luvvies. The "taster" had a poor reception for its bias and
> errors.[1][2][3]
>
> In the light of how huge "fake news" has become this year, it is
> surprising that the team of journalists employed by Wikitribune for
> over six months (fack check please?) have missed out on the
> opportunity to be seen influencing press coverage of say, Trump,
> Brexit, Facebook ads or even planet Niburi by providing their own fact
> checks.
>
> Links:
> 1. Taster article:
> https://medium.com/wikitribune/wikitribune-taster-1-the-great-and-the-good-meet-to-promote-un-global-goals-729a22401bd3
> 2. Times response to the taster:
> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jimmy-wales-wikitribune-s-weak-debut-rattles-backers-lily-cole-5zs3q37gs
> 3. Related announcement of launch edition, Aug 2017:
> https://www.journalism.co.uk/news/wikitribune-announces-launch-editor-and-plans-to-publish-first-edition-this-year/s2/a708086/
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

Update: My question was premature, The Times article from a week ago
includes a statement from Peter Bale that the launch edition will be
published at the end of this month.

The good news is that everyone will be able to assess the quality of
Wikitribune's "fact-checked global news stories" for themselves before
31st October.

Thanks,
Fae
-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] October 12: Strategy update - Movement direction now posted for your endorsement consideration (#26)

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Nicole,

Thank you. I just wonder - if the rest is presented this way, people might
think that it belongs to the direction, and what the relationship between
both is. And I'm afraid, that later the Foundation will claim that the rest
is important or an important (authoritative) interpretation that will
influence the following discussions. There will be confusion what exactly
is endorsed an can be used (abused) in those following discussions.

For example, I am very concerned that the "oral traditions" are still in
the game, especially as Guillaume emphasized that he still wants to go this
way.

Kind regards
Ziko




2017-10-21 1:52 GMT+02:00 Nicole Ebber :

> Hi Ziko,
>
> Quick response regarding the endorsement: We will ask people to only
> endorse the strategic direction in the green box and the short section
> underneath with the next steps.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Best regards,
> Nicole
>
> On 21 October 2017 at 01:02, Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
>
> > 2017-10-20 23:10 GMT+02:00 Katherine Maher :
> >
> > >
> > > I am optimistic that this strategic direction provides every individual
> > and
> > > entity within the Wikimedia movement something to be excited about.
> > >
> >
> > Hello, it is not about what I might be excited about - I wonder in which
> > ways the document will be used in a way I find problematic for the
> > community.
> >
> > I am still curious about the links in the "See also" section:
> >
> >- Appendix
> > > movement/2017/Direction/Appendix>:
> >More information about the process, research, and findings that led to
> > this
> >outcome.
> >- A report of findings
> > > movement/2017/Findings>
> >is being written and many references on this page will be updated to
> > point
> >to its content.
> >
> > Are those (and the footnotes) part of the "direction" document? Will
> people
> > who endorse the document also endorse them?
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Ziko
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Beginning on October 26, we will be asking for individual contributors
> > and
> > > organized groups to endorse this new strategic direction for our
> > movement.
> > > I encourage you to spend the intervening days discussing this direction
> > and
> > > determining if you and/or your group will be endorsing it. You will
> find
> > > more information about the endorsement day and the process on the
> > > direction’s meta page next week.
> > >
> > > The endorsement concludes phase 1 of the process, and we are currently
> > > drafting the next steps of the process. The main goal of phase 2 will
> be
> > to
> > > answer the question "How do we implement the strategic direction",
> which
> > > means identifying the resources needed for execution, and the
> activities
> > it
> > > involves. A first rough overview of this phase is being developed on
> > Meta.
> > > Take a look! [2]
> > >
> > > On a different note, we have completed the move into our new office
> space
> > > at One Montgomery Tower![3] Once again, thank you to everyone on staff
> > who
> > > was involved in making the move so seamless, and to all of you for your
> > > patience over the past couple of weeks. Later this month, once we are
> > more
> > > settled in, we will be sharing photos and information about our new
> space
> > > on the Wikimedia Blog.
> > >
> > > Stay tuned!
> > >
> > > መልካም ቀን። (Amharic translation: “Have a nice day”),
> > >
> > > Katherine
> > >
> > > [1]
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > > movement/2017/People/Drafting_Group
> > > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_2030/Process_planning
> > > [3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_headquarters
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > ___
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> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
>
>
>
>
> --
> Nicole Ebber
> Adviser International Relations
> Movement Strategy Track Lead: Organized Groups
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
> der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
> Körperschaf

[Wikimedia-l] Wikitribune!

[Fæ]

On 25 April 2017 at 22:59, Jimmy Wales  wrote:
>
> Today I announced a new initiative, outside of my Wikimedia activities,
> to combat fake news. It is important to me that I share directly with
> all of you information about this new initiative early on.
>
> The new project  will use a wiki-style setup and experiment with
> bringing together professional journalists and community contributors to
> produce fact-checked, global news stories.  At launch, we'll be using a
> hacked version of wordpress and we'll be evaluating whether that's the
> right tool moving forward.  Wordpress has a lot to
> commend it (free software, mature platform, used by lots of newsrooms,
> active developer ecosystem) but also has some philosophy that's quite
> "top down" in a way.
> (Not many people would think in a wiki way when setting up a newsroom!)
>
> This new initiative, Wikitribune, will be a learning experience - my
> vision is one that I've had a hard time explaining... except to
> Wikimedians who tend to immediately
> get it.
>
> While I am launching this project independent from Wikipedia and the
> Wikimedia Foundation, it is my plan that this new project will work
> alongside Wikimedia in the free knowledge movement. For example, I hope
> that the numerous Wikinews/Wikinoticias/Wikinotizie/etc. communities can
> collaborate with the  Wikitribune community in way that allows both to
> learn and benefit from each other. Additionally, Wikitribune will
> utilize the same Creative Commons license (CC-BY) as other free content
> projects in
> the news space - so they can take the stories written by our
> professional journalists and communities and make use of them.
>
> You can find out more information about Wikitribune at:
> https://www.wikitribune.com
>
> Thank you for your time and I'm happy to answer questions!  (But I'm
> quite swamped with everything at the moment so please forgive me if I
> answer in bursts!)
>
> --Jimbo

Would anyone like to give an update, with some verifiable sources, on
what has happened to Wikitribune? Perhaps it will remain at an
indefinite "venture capital stage" with no launch date, or maybe there
been a decision to pull the plug?

I have been hunting around for publications since the announcement on
this list, and believe there has been none apart from a poorly judged
"taster" article, based on an interview with Richard Curtis, which
appeared intended to promote a forthcoming charity event aimed at
media luvvies. The "taster" had a poor reception for its bias and
errors.[1][2][3]

In the light of how huge "fake news" has become this year, it is
surprising that the team of journalists employed by Wikitribune for
over six months (fack check please?) have missed out on the
opportunity to be seen influencing press coverage of say, Trump,
Brexit, Facebook ads or even planet Niburi by providing their own fact
checks.

Links:
1. Taster article:
https://medium.com/wikitribune/wikitribune-taster-1-the-great-and-the-good-meet-to-promote-un-global-goals-729a22401bd3
2. Times response to the taster:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jimmy-wales-wikitribune-s-weak-debut-rattles-backers-lily-cole-5zs3q37gs
3. Related announcement of launch edition, Aug 2017:
https://www.journalism.co.uk/news/wikitribune-announces-launch-editor-and-plans-to-publish-first-edition-this-year/s2/a708086/

Thanks,
Fae
-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wmfall] New Developers Quarterly Report's first edition

[Gergo Tisza]

Thanks Srishti & DevRel team, that was interesting, and it's great to see
that developer retention gets the organizational focus it deserves.

Some comments on the document:

We currently struggle to keep track of information about new developers
> such as project they worked on, their contact details (e.g., Phabricator,
> Gerrit, and Github username), etc.


FWIW this is a problem with all developers, not just new ones. For example
after I find out who is the best person to ask about something, there isn't
really way to find out their IRC account. (Or vice versa, know who I've
just talked with on IRC.) Phabricator can be linked to mediawiki.org and
wikitech but few people do both. And so on. The WMF has its private contact
list, but even that is not always updated, and it's unaccessible to
volunteers. It would be great to have a proper, public contact info
management system somewhere.


Re: surveys, it would be a missed opportunity to only survey new
developers. The limitation in that is that only a small fraction of them
become regulars, and it would be great to understand better what
personality trait or circumstance determines whether a given person stays
or leaves, but the only way to find that out is to survey people whom we
already know remained (or left) about their experiences as new developers.

Re: retention (the raw numbers for which can be found in T160430#3395405),
apparently year-on-year for Q3 2017 is interpreted as "(developers who
started in 2016 Q3 and were still active in 2017 Q3 / all developers who
started in 2016 Q3) / (developers who started in 2015 Q3 and were still
active in 2016 Q3 / all developers who started in 2015 Q3)" which is a
weird definition. YoY should be the difference in retention between two
full years, not between two quarters spaced one year apart.

One thing that jumps out looking at the list of retained developers is how
many of them are experienced Wikipedians (at a glance, something like
two-thirds?). Which I guess is not that surprising, but I wonder to what
extent is it reflected in the outreach strategy?


On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Srishti Sethi 
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I would like to share the first edition of the New Developers Quarterly
> Report 
> that the Developer Relations team has produced. This report covers metrics,
> survey analysis and lessons learned from new developers focused activities
> in the previous quarter (July-September 2017).
>
> If you have questions and feedback that you would like to share with us,
> please add them on the discussion
> 
> page.
>
> To receive a notification when a new report is published, subscribe here
> .
>
> We plan to release a report every quarter and take action items identified
> from the key findings for improving our existing methods and processes. The
> next release will be in January 2018.
>
> If you have any questions, comments, and concerns, we will be more than
> happy to hear them!
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Srishti
>
>
> --
> Srishti Sethi
> Developer Advocate
> Technical Collaboration team
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:SSethi_(WMF)
>
> ___
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>
>
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