Re: [Wikimedia-l] Welcome messages at arwiki

[Samir Elsharbaty]

Looping in the Arabic Wikipedia mailing list.

FYI

Samir Elsharbaty
Communications|Wikimedia Foundation


On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 5:02 AM, John Erling Blad  wrote:

> I've usually just don't bother with them, but lately I got complaints about
> this specific bot, and the bot operator neglect doing anything with the
> problem. That is why I raise the issue, as there are no other forum where
> users from one project can make a complaint about misbehaving users on
> another project.
>
> Given the response from the bot operator I would say I don't have a good
> feeling about this "welcome" at all. It is like those scam emails where you
> are greeted in full name. It is creepy…
>
> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 11:19 AM, Vi to  wrote:
>
> > I can estimate the number of welcomes I received to roughly 300, most of
> > these languages I cannot even copypaste from.
> > While these messages are useless for sure I don't see any reason to be
> > bothered of them.
> >
> > Vito
> >
> > 2017-12-29 10:25 GMT+01:00 K. Peachey :
> >
> > > Have you asked the user how the finding the users?
> > > Have you considered other steps than just jumping to mailing list?
> > > Where are the complaints from the other users to show this is a long
> > > running issue?
> > >
> > > On 29 December 2017 at 19:20, John Erling Blad 
> wrote:
> > > > Users on other projects are complaining about the welcome messages at
> > > > arwiki. A bot at that project are welcoming people that has no
> activity
> > > at
> > > > that project at all. The bot operator claims the activity is valid,
> > but I
> > > > can't see that this is a well-behaving bot at all.[1]
> > > >
> > > > I suspect the bot is welcoming every user it can find, but using user
> > > > accounts from central login and not users that has local
> contributions
> > at
> > > > arwiki.
> > > >
> > > > Can someone shut down the bot until the user fix the spam problem.
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Meno25#Welcome_
> messages
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> > ___
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> > 
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Welcome messages at arwiki

[John Erling Blad]

I've usually just don't bother with them, but lately I got complaints about
this specific bot, and the bot operator neglect doing anything with the
problem. That is why I raise the issue, as there are no other forum where
users from one project can make a complaint about misbehaving users on
another project.

Given the response from the bot operator I would say I don't have a good
feeling about this "welcome" at all. It is like those scam emails where you
are greeted in full name. It is creepy…

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 11:19 AM, Vi to  wrote:

> I can estimate the number of welcomes I received to roughly 300, most of
> these languages I cannot even copypaste from.
> While these messages are useless for sure I don't see any reason to be
> bothered of them.
>
> Vito
>
> 2017-12-29 10:25 GMT+01:00 K. Peachey :
>
> > Have you asked the user how the finding the users?
> > Have you considered other steps than just jumping to mailing list?
> > Where are the complaints from the other users to show this is a long
> > running issue?
> >
> > On 29 December 2017 at 19:20, John Erling Blad  wrote:
> > > Users on other projects are complaining about the welcome messages at
> > > arwiki. A bot at that project are welcoming people that has no activity
> > at
> > > that project at all. The bot operator claims the activity is valid,
> but I
> > > can't see that this is a well-behaving bot at all.[1]
> > >
> > > I suspect the bot is welcoming every user it can find, but using user
> > > accounts from central login and not users that has local contributions
> at
> > > arwiki.
> > >
> > > Can someone shut down the bot until the user fix the spam problem.
> > >
> > > [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Meno25#Welcome_messages
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> ___
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>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Welcome messages at arwiki

[John Erling Blad]

Link on my email.

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 10:25 AM, K. Peachey  wrote:

> Have you asked the user how the finding the users?
> Have you considered other steps than just jumping to mailing list?
> Where are the complaints from the other users to show this is a long
> running issue?
>
> On 29 December 2017 at 19:20, John Erling Blad  wrote:
> > Users on other projects are complaining about the welcome messages at
> > arwiki. A bot at that project are welcoming people that has no activity
> at
> > that project at all. The bot operator claims the activity is valid, but I
> > can't see that this is a well-behaving bot at all.[1]
> >
> > I suspect the bot is welcoming every user it can find, but using user
> > accounts from central login and not users that has local contributions at
> > arwiki.
> >
> > Can someone shut down the bot until the user fix the spam problem.
> >
> > [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Meno25#Welcome_messages
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Heat Maps

[Dariusz Jemielniak]

That'd be pretty cool.

On Dec 29, 2017 17:44, "James Heilman"  wrote:

> Also all the underlying software is also under an open license,
> specifically the MIT license and can be found on Github per
>
> https://ourworldindata.org/about/
>
> James
>
> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 9:37 AM, James Heilman  wrote:
>
> > It is all under a CC BY SA 4.0 license.
> >
> > You can also download all the data as a csv file.
> >
> > James
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Yuri Astrakhan  >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> James, which open license? There is a request pending to allow non cc0
> >> licensed data in commons, but still waiting for legal.
> >>
> >> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T178210
> >>
> >> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017, 11:22 James Heilman  wrote:
> >>
> >> > Our World in Data has created 100s of heat maps with scroll bars for
> >> > adjusting the year. The maps as well as the underlying data is under
> an
> >> > open license.
> >> >
> >> > Example include these https://ourworldindata.org/obesity/
> >> >
> >> > When one puts their cursor over the country in question they get the
> >> > underlying data and the country is highlighted. What would be required
> >> for
> >> > use to support this sort of technology within Wikipedia?
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > James Heilman
> >> > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> >> > ___
> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> >> > 
> >> ___
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
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> >> i/Wikimedia-l
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> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > James Heilman
> > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> >
>
>
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Heat Maps

[James Heilman]

Also all the underlying software is also under an open license,
specifically the MIT license and can be found on Github per

https://ourworldindata.org/about/

James

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 9:37 AM, James Heilman  wrote:

> It is all under a CC BY SA 4.0 license.
>
> You can also download all the data as a csv file.
>
> James
>
> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Yuri Astrakhan 
> wrote:
>
>> James, which open license? There is a request pending to allow non cc0
>> licensed data in commons, but still waiting for legal.
>>
>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T178210
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017, 11:22 James Heilman  wrote:
>>
>> > Our World in Data has created 100s of heat maps with scroll bars for
>> > adjusting the year. The maps as well as the underlying data is under an
>> > open license.
>> >
>> > Example include these https://ourworldindata.org/obesity/
>> >
>> > When one puts their cursor over the country in question they get the
>> > underlying data and the country is highlighted. What would be required
>> for
>> > use to support this sort of technology within Wikipedia?
>> >
>> > --
>> > James Heilman
>> > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>> > ___
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > 
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>> i/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> 
>
>
>
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>



-- 
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Heat Maps

[Yuri Astrakhan]

So yes, technically it is a two minute work--allow ccby in commons data
namespace, but legal has to answer first if they want much more substantial
changes. I asked about a month ago for a clarification

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017, 11:38 James Heilman  wrote:

> It is all under a CC BY SA 4.0 license.
>
> You can also download all the data as a csv file.
>
> James
>
> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Yuri Astrakhan 
> wrote:
>
> > James, which open license? There is a request pending to allow non cc0
> > licensed data in commons, but still waiting for legal.
> >
> > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T178210
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 29, 2017, 11:22 James Heilman  wrote:
> >
> > > Our World in Data has created 100s of heat maps with scroll bars for
> > > adjusting the year. The maps as well as the underlying data is under an
> > > open license.
> > >
> > > Example include these https://ourworldindata.org/obesity/
> > >
> > > When one puts their cursor over the country in question they get the
> > > underlying data and the country is highlighted. What would be required
> > for
> > > use to support this sort of technology within Wikipedia?
> > >
> > > --
> > > James Heilman
> > > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
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> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
>
>
>
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Heat Maps

[James Heilman]

It is all under a CC BY SA 4.0 license.

You can also download all the data as a csv file.

James

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Yuri Astrakhan 
wrote:

> James, which open license? There is a request pending to allow non cc0
> licensed data in commons, but still waiting for legal.
>
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T178210
>
> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017, 11:22 James Heilman  wrote:
>
> > Our World in Data has created 100s of heat maps with scroll bars for
> > adjusting the year. The maps as well as the underlying data is under an
> > open license.
> >
> > Example include these https://ourworldindata.org/obesity/
> >
> > When one puts their cursor over the country in question they get the
> > underlying data and the country is highlighted. What would be required
> for
> > use to support this sort of technology within Wikipedia?
> >
> > --
> > James Heilman
> > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> ___
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-- 
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[Wikimedia-l] Heat Maps

[James Heilman]

Our World in Data has created 100s of heat maps with scroll bars for
adjusting the year. The maps as well as the underlying data is under an
open license.

Example include these https://ourworldindata.org/obesity/

When one puts their cursor over the country in question they get the
underlying data and the country is highlighted. What would be required for
use to support this sort of technology within Wikipedia?

-- 
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Welcome messages at arwiki

[Vi to]

I can estimate the number of welcomes I received to roughly 300, most of
these languages I cannot even copypaste from.
While these messages are useless for sure I don't see any reason to be
bothered of them.

Vito

2017-12-29 10:25 GMT+01:00 K. Peachey :

> Have you asked the user how the finding the users?
> Have you considered other steps than just jumping to mailing list?
> Where are the complaints from the other users to show this is a long
> running issue?
>
> On 29 December 2017 at 19:20, John Erling Blad  wrote:
> > Users on other projects are complaining about the welcome messages at
> > arwiki. A bot at that project are welcoming people that has no activity
> at
> > that project at all. The bot operator claims the activity is valid, but I
> > can't see that this is a well-behaving bot at all.[1]
> >
> > I suspect the bot is welcoming every user it can find, but using user
> > accounts from central login and not users that has local contributions at
> > arwiki.
> >
> > Can someone shut down the bot until the user fix the spam problem.
> >
> > [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Meno25#Welcome_messages
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Welcome messages at arwiki

[Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l]

Some reactions to welcome bot or welcomes are a little bit "exaggerated" 
sometimes. it's just a small red color spot in a corner. Two seconds to process 
it, more time to complain about it.
I study user activities and sometimes I leave welcome messages here and there. 
99.5% of the time is because they have some sort of activities on the platform. 
it happened to me one or two times per year that some users deleted a welcome 
message I have left here or there. A scenario that occurred more than once is 
wikidata and old-term users that have some issues with the fact that even if 
they don't want to be part to it, they do have edits indirectly on such 
platform. Sometimes they spent more time writing in the object why they are 
deleting it that simply ignoring it. 
I stick to the fact that with "side" platforms 95% of the users don't care, 4% 
reply interested or thank for the welcome or similar, and 1% (or less) have 
issues. Such 1% are mostly long term or established users. In the general 
framework, I think that leaving such templates from real users to people with 
some activities is potentially useful, at least to establish a connection.
I also have no direct experience of anyone complaining about bot messages on 
other "side" platforms, I know about users discovering less "common" wiki such 
as some of the "Asian" ones, but they are kinda amused. Such bot welcome 
message arrives when you do something to log in, such as opening one of their 
articles for example. Or maybe you use a computer when someone else have opened 
them recently.
We can write a meta policy to leave welcome message only with people with 
edits, but in the end someone could point out that informing people before they 
do anything if they actually entered the platform is a good strategy (why wait 
they have to do something? maybe they need help). On some wiki you get the 
message as soon as you log in, for example frwiki if I remember with a test 
from a friend. Why is that different?
The core issue is to be sure that the welcome message has a part in one or two 
main world languages, and a link to the embassy page. That's the occasion to 
make it smarter not to remove it totally, we have the expertise to do that. For 
example you leave the en-N welcome message to people who have edits on 
enwikipedia and so on. 

Alessandro


 

Il Venerdì 29 Dicembre 2017 10:27, K. Peachey  ha 
scritto:
 

 Have you asked the user how the finding the users?
Have you considered other steps than just jumping to mailing list?
Where are the complaints from the other users to show this is a long
running issue?

On 29 December 2017 at 19:20, John Erling Blad  wrote:
> Users on other projects are complaining about the welcome messages at
> arwiki. A bot at that project are welcoming people that has no activity at
> that project at all. The bot operator claims the activity is valid, but I
> can't see that this is a well-behaving bot at all.[1]
>
> I suspect the bot is welcoming every user it can find, but using user
> accounts from central login and not users that has local contributions at
> arwiki.
>
> Can someone shut down the bot until the user fix the spam problem.
>
> [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Meno25#Welcome_messages
> ___
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> 

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Welcome messages at arwiki

[K. Peachey]

Have you asked the user how the finding the users?
Have you considered other steps than just jumping to mailing list?
Where are the complaints from the other users to show this is a long
running issue?

On 29 December 2017 at 19:20, John Erling Blad  wrote:
> Users on other projects are complaining about the welcome messages at
> arwiki. A bot at that project are welcoming people that has no activity at
> that project at all. The bot operator claims the activity is valid, but I
> can't see that this is a well-behaving bot at all.[1]
>
> I suspect the bot is welcoming every user it can find, but using user
> accounts from central login and not users that has local contributions at
> arwiki.
>
> Can someone shut down the bot until the user fix the spam problem.
>
> [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Meno25#Welcome_messages
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[Wikimedia-l] Welcome messages at arwiki

[John Erling Blad]

Users on other projects are complaining about the welcome messages at
arwiki. A bot at that project are welcoming people that has no activity at
that project at all. The bot operator claims the activity is valid, but I
can't see that this is a well-behaving bot at all.[1]

I suspect the bot is welcoming every user it can find, but using user
accounts from central login and not users that has local contributions at
arwiki.

Can someone shut down the bot until the user fix the spam problem.

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Meno25#Welcome_messages
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