Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2012-03-18 Thread John Vandenberg
On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Roger Bamkin victuall...@gmail.com wrote:
 On a more mundane point we have been asked to supply Wikisource via QRpedia

mundane!?! .. very cool! ;-)

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-11-01 Thread Andy Mabbett
On 25 October 2011 22:55, Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org wrote:

 Following on from Fae and myself meeting Robin Urquart of the National
 Archives of Scotland, I'm looking for people who may be interested in
 working on a WW-I related GLAM project.

This is also pertinent:

  http://www.inmemoriam2014.org

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-28 Thread Andy Mabbett
This may be relevant:

http://m.spiegel.de/international/europe/a-794103.html

  ' WWI Grave Find Tells Story Germans Want To Forget'



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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-28 Thread Tom Morris
On 27 Oct 2011, at 10:59, Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com wrote:

 I might upset a few people here, but,... Why does this even have to in
 any way link to Wikipedia?
 
 Just because we've a pet 800lb gorilla is no reason to point people at
 it repeatedly.
 
 Because Wikipedia has the biggest audience. Most partners care about getting 
 audience and exposure for their material. Our best offering there is 
 Wikipedia. 
 
 It's the only Wikimedia project which is completely, unequivocally better 
 than its competitors. 
 
 Not that this means everything has to have a Wikipedia angle, but it is an 
 important point. :-)

I dunno. Wikiquote is pretty cool: it's like other quote sites but with some 
actual rudimentary accuracy checking. ;-)

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-27 Thread Andy Mabbett
On 27 October 2011 00:44, Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org wrote:

 I might upset a few people here, but,... Why does this even have to in
 any way link to Wikipedia?

[else where you also said The point here is not to drive traffic to
Wikipedia]

I'm not concerned with driving traffic to Wikipedia - it seems to be
doing OK, in that regard, without our help.

I think a Wikipedia page is the most user-friendly front end to the
rest of the data, and is also likely to satisfy the curiosity of a
more casual reader, who wants to know what the memorial is (name,
architect, date of construction, etc.), without going further into the
personal details of those memorialised, which will nonetheless be thus
made available to those who do wish to see it.

QRpedia and interwiki links mean we can also serve basic information
to people who cannot read English (or Scots/ Welsh).

 For many GLAM partners, Wikipedia is not going to be the 'ideal' first
 port of call.

{{CN}}   ;-)

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-27 Thread Fae
With regard to notability, all war monuments are landmarks potentially
worthy of a Wikipedia article. Due to how difficult it is to source
the material, I would encourage any group or individual to consider
extending (or more likely creating) the article for the local town or
village that created the monument, though some monuments are found at
cross-roads or at scenic positions (I'm thinking of the large memorial
I stopped to photograph in North Uist which only has sheep as
neighbours but is still the location for a well attended annual
memorial ceremony and is the opportunity to remember those more
recently killed in war action).

The cross-links to information about regiments, battles and individual
acts of bravery that were recognized with notable medals all add value
to Wikipedia and though the information may start with a photo on
Wikimedia Commons or a single document on Wikisource, I would strongly
encourage volunteers to help expand the quality of Wikipedia's
coverage of these areas of local interest. It strikes me as the sort
of improvement that local schools might be excellent at helping with.

Cheers,
Fae

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-27 Thread Chris Keating

 I might upset a few people here, but,... Why does this even have to in
 any way link to Wikipedia?

 Just because we've a pet 800lb gorilla is no reason to point people at
 it repeatedly.


Because Wikipedia has the biggest audience. Most partners care about getting
audience and exposure for their material. Our best offering there is
Wikipedia.

It's the only Wikimedia project which is completely, unequivocally better
than its competitors.

Not that this means everything has to have a Wikipedia angle, but it is an
important point. :-)

Chris
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-26 Thread WereSpielChequers
If the QR code is for use on mobile phones then we may not want much more
than a stub either. What is the maximum article size that would work on the
typical modern phone?

WereSpielChequers

On 25 October 2011 23:32, Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org wrote:

 That's the sort of feedback I'm looking for, thanks.

 I've no intention of vigorously arguing one way or the other, but I just
 feel it is inappropriate to point to a Wikipedia article that may never
 get much beyond stub status when orders of magnitude more content is
 elsewhere on WMF projects.



 On Tue, 2011-10-25 at 23:07 +0100, Andy Mabbett wrote:
  On 25 October 2011 22:55, Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org
 wrote:
 
  All good stuff, but...
 
   A QR code could be placed at a relevant war memorial, it points to
   a Wikibook collecting all the soldiers' letters, with scans and
 transcripts.
 
  I'd rather the QR code point (via QRpedia) to a Wikipedia article
  about the memorial, and have that point to relevant pages on commons/
  Wikisource, and the book.
 


 Brian McNeil.
 --
 http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil - Accredited Reporter.
 Facts don't cease to be facts, but news ceases to be news.


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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-26 Thread Andy Mabbett
Longer articles work fine on mobiles, because the lede is shown,
followed by the other sections, collapsed, and which can be expanded
individually if and when required by the user.

On 26 October 2011 11:10, WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@gmail.com wrote:
 If the QR code is for use on mobile phones then we may not want much more
 than a stub either. What is the maximum article size that would work on the
 typical modern phone?

 WereSpielChequers

 On 25 October 2011 23:32, Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org wrote:

 That's the sort of feedback I'm looking for, thanks.

 I've no intention of vigorously arguing one way or the other, but I just
 feel it is inappropriate to point to a Wikipedia article that may never
 get much beyond stub status when orders of magnitude more content is
 elsewhere on WMF projects.



 On Tue, 2011-10-25 at 23:07 +0100, Andy Mabbett wrote:
  On 25 October 2011 22:55, Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org
  wrote:
 
  All good stuff, but...
 
   A QR code could be placed at a relevant war memorial, it points to
   a Wikibook collecting all the soldiers' letters, with scans and
   transcripts.
 
  I'd rather the QR code point (via QRpedia) to a Wikipedia article
  about the memorial, and have that point to relevant pages on commons/
  Wikisource, and the book.
 


 Brian McNeil.
 --
 http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil - Accredited Reporter.
 Facts don't cease to be facts, but news ceases to be news.


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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-26 Thread Andy Mabbett
On 26 October 2011 11:56, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk 
 wrote:

 I'd rather the QR code point (via QRpedia) to a Wikipedia article
 about the memorial, and have that point to relevant pages on commons/
 Wikisource, and the book.

 It could be difficult writing Wikipedia articles about these soldiers.

I referred to page about each /memorial/, not one for each soldier.

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-26 Thread Chris Keating
 Following on from Fae and myself meeting Robin Urquart of the National
 Archives of Scotland, I'm looking for people who may be interested in
 working on a WW-I related GLAM project.


This is very interesting stuff - thank you for taking it on. :-)

Here are a few thoughts...

I imagine both Commons and Wikisource would be keen to have the material
available. However, Wikisource in particular doesn't have a community that
will just get on with transcribing letters. So you'd need to be careful that
NAS don't expect that they will get a whole load of transcribed letters for
free.

I'm not quite sure what Wikibooks would think about this kind of thing - I
think it's more aimed at textbooks than source material - but you might as
well ask and see what you get.

Since Wikipedia is by far the biggest and best-used project, finding a
Wikipedia link is probably quite valuable in terms of impact. Since 99.99%
of the individual soldiers are non-notable, you could approach this by using
materials for the war memorials as Andy suggests, or with reference to the
individual battalions (we actually have poor coverage on Wikipedia of things
like war-raise battalions), or perhaps the towns.



 Due to
 the accessibility requirements imposed on any body like the archives,
 there is a need to transcribe such documents before they can make them
 widely available.


Obviously if they use Wikisource as a transcription tool, then they will
need to make the documents widely available, and then transcribe them. :-)

It would be really interesting to see a GLAM initiative which used
Wikisource as a transcription interface. There are plenty of non-Wiki GLAM
initiatives which have custom-built transcription methods (e.g. Old Weather)
and Wikisource has strengths but some disadvantages as well.



 But, I've a hunch this is
 something that could be excellent for waking the wider public up to
 projects other than Wikipedia, recruiting local history buffs as new
 content contributors, and getting cultural institutions to 'think
 outside the box' around working with us.


Yes, this is why WWI is a big opportunity. :-D

Chris
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-26 Thread Andrew West
On 25 October 2011 23:07, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:

 A QR code could be placed at a relevant war memorial, it points to
 a Wikibook collecting all the soldiers' letters, with scans and transcripts.

 I'd rather the QR code point (via QRpedia) to a Wikipedia article
 about the memorial, and have that point to relevant pages on commons/
 Wikisource, and the book.

I would have thought that very few war memorials would be notable
enough to merit their own article on Wikipedia, and even if an article
did exist, it would not be the place to put all the letters and
ephemera associated with the individual soldiers listed on the
memorial.  In my opinion, Brian's suggestion of using Wikibooks to
gather together all the scans, transcripts and other relevent
information in a single place, and linking to it from a QR code is
definitely the best solution.

I think that it is dubious whether a QRpedia code is warranted in this
case, although potentially a Gaelic Wikibooks project (does not
currently exist) could mirror the contents of the English Wikibooks;
and for a similar project about Welsh soldiers there is both an
English and a Welsh Wikibooks project that could both host the
information.

Andrew
[[User:BabelStone]]

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-26 Thread Fae
 It would be really interesting to see a GLAM initiative which used
 Wikisource as a transcription interface.
...
 Chris

The best GLAM example of using Wikisource so far is Dominic's work
with NARA in the USA - see
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:WikiProject_NARA/Completed.
I used the example of
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Objections_to_Woman_Suffrage_Answered
at the all staff presentation at the British Library as an example
where a formal archive's catalogue links directly back to Wikisource
as an 'official' transcription.

I am hoping that NAS can use a similar approach.

Cheers,
Fae

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-26 Thread Andy Mabbett
Size of Qr codes is governed by three things:

* Number of characters encoded
* Amount of error correction
* Expected distance from the user's device

The first two of those determine the number of squares making up the
code, the latter the size of those squares

On 26 October 2011 12:13, Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com wrote:

 OOPS. I was thinking about the size of QR Codes.

 Articles? Is there a limit?

 Gordo

 On 26/10/2011 12:11, Gordon Joly wrote:
 On 26/10/2011 11:10, WereSpielChequers wrote:
 If the QR code is for use on mobile phones then we may not want much
 more than a stub either. What is the maximum article size that would
 work on the typical modern phone?

 WereSpielChequers
 My experience is 1 cm at a distance of 10 cm.

 That is off the top of my head.

 Gordo

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-26 Thread Tom Morris
On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 22:55, Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org wrote:
 A QR code could be placed at a relevant war memorial,

Is that such a good idea?

I like QR codes as much as the next person, but sticking them on war
memorials may probing the limits of taste in Wikimedia outreach.

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-26 Thread Andy Mabbett
On 26 October 2011 17:55, Tom Morris t...@tommorris.org wrote:
 On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 22:55, Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org 
 wrote:

 A QR code could be placed at a relevant war memorial,

 Is that such a good idea?

 I like QR codes as much as the next person, but sticking them on war
 memorials may probing the limits of taste in Wikimedia outreach.

The suggestion was at not on - it should be possible to place a QR
Code on nearby information point, for example, not on the memorial
itself.

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-26 Thread Brian McNeil
On Wed, 2011-10-26 at 17:55 +0100, Tom Morris wrote:
 On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 22:55, Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org 
 wrote:
  A QR code could be placed at a relevant war memorial,
 
 Is that such a good idea?
 
 I like QR codes as much as the next person, but sticking them on war
 memorials may probing the limits of taste in Wikimedia outreach.

Believe it or not, that's why I was careful to say *at*, as-opposed to
*on*. I know I've a reputation for being crass, insensitive, and
bloody-minded; but, vandalising war memorials is something I'd not
contemplate. :P

I'm glad to see others chime in regarding the potential for certain
memorials being non-notable, or having insufficient reliable sources to
get beyond stub status. The point here is not to drive traffic to
Wikipedia, but to allow people to quickly access very personal
documents.

Even just doing everyone listed on a single monument will be notable
enough to garner press coverage. From that, it will - hopefully - be
possible to encourage other non-wiki people to get involved and carry
out the same work for their local memorials.

I've no idea how far this should be pushed, or how far it might go if it
gains traction. The fallen of WW-I were not repatriated; I lived in
Flanders for over ten years, I've seen the rows, and rows of white
crosses in war cemeteries over there. I know a very large number of
people visit these sites every year. If anyone can suggest a way to
tastefully cross-link memorials in the UK listing those who died with
the actual graves, that would seem the next logical step here.




Brian McNeil.
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http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil - Accredited Reporter.
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-26 Thread iain.macdonald
As I've remarked before - every so often I decide to unsubscribe from this list, then something else interesting comes up.Some of these memorials don't even have information notices (the one in the village I grew up in, for instance). Where there is sufficient information for one, might the WMF/projects/WMUK/whoever collaborate with local authorities - supplying info, images etc for an information board, which could in turn point people in the direction of further resources?(Disclaimer: I haven't thought that through. I'm thinking aloud.)Iain


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters
From: Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org
Date: Wed, October 26, 2011 10:37 pm
To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org

On Wed, 2011-10-26 at 17:55 +0100, Tom Morris wrote:
 On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 22:55, Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org wrote:
  A QR code could be placed at a relevant war memorial,
 
 Is that such a good idea?
 
 I like QR codes as much as the next person, but sticking them on war
 memorials may probing the limits of taste in Wikimedia outreach.

Believe it or not, that's why I was careful to say *at*, as-opposed to
*on*. I know I've a reputation for being crass, insensitive, and
bloody-minded; but, "vandalising" war memorials is something I'd not
contemplate. :P

I'm glad to see others chime in regarding the potential for certain
memorials being non-notable, or having insufficient reliable sources to
get beyond stub status. The point here is not to drive traffic to
Wikipedia, but to allow people to quickly access very personal
documents.

Even just doing everyone listed on a single monument will be notable
enough to garner press coverage. From that, it will - hopefully - be
possible to encourage other non-wiki people to get involved and carry
out the same work for their local memorials.

I've no idea how far this should be pushed, or how far it might go if it
gains traction. The fallen of WW-I were not repatriated; I lived in
Flanders for over ten years, I've seen the rows, and rows of white
crosses in war cemeteries over there. I know a very large number of
people visit these sites every year. If anyone can suggest a way to
tastefully cross-link memorials in the UK listing those who died with
the actual graves, that would seem the next logical step here.




Brian McNeil.
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-26 Thread Andrew West
On 26 October 2011 22:37, Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org wrote:

 I'm glad to see others chime in regarding the potential for certain
 memorials being non-notable, or having insufficient reliable sources to
 get beyond stub status. The point here is not to drive traffic to
 Wikipedia, but to allow people to quickly access very personal
 documents.

To my mind, List of war memorials in Scotland etc. would be the best
way to proceed wrt Wikipedia, with each entry linking to another
wikimedia project or projects for whatever detailed information is
available such as scans, transcriptions and lists of names.  There is
quite a nice list-article for Canadian war memorials at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_war_memorials.

Andrew

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-26 Thread Brian McNeil
On Wed, 2011-10-26 at 14:53 -0700, iain.macdon...@wikinewsie.org wrote:
 As I've remarked before - every so often I decide to unsubscribe from
 this list, then something else interesting comes up.

You were sane enough to unsubscribe from stroll-l/sfoundation-l,
though? Right?

 Some of these memorials don't even have information notices (the one
 in the village I grew up in, for instance). Where there is sufficient
 information for one, might the WMF/projects/WMUK/whoever collaborate
 with local authorities - supplying info, images etc for an information
 board, which could in turn point people in the direction of further
 resources?

 (Disclaimer: I haven't thought that through. I'm thinking aloud.)

You're probably thinking along similar lines to myself. These memorials
were constructed in the 1918-1925 period, with funds raised locally. The
material that could build a Wikipedia article is likely buried in parish
newsletters, and long-ceased-publication local newspapers.

The monument is less important, in terms of the data we have an
opportunity to access, than the people it commemorates. Wikipedia is
very much cold, hard facts, this is very, very personal. Commons,
Wikisource, and possibly Wikibooks - to me - seem the appropriate
projects to work on with this material.

If the entire 'roll call' from a monument is processed, then the
supplementary items - such as theatre tickets, or restaurant receipts -
from someone's last night before going to the front can be put on
display locally to the monument (eg, in a local library).

The rationale behind doing this through WMF projects is to have the
information available globally. Right now, someone in Australia may well
know that their great-grandmother emigrated after her husband was killed
in WW-I. Being able to see the letter he wrote the night before he died,
and a list of the personal effects handed to the widow, is what I see
making this a project of value.

WW-I has oftentimes been billed as The War to end all Wars; the more
personal you make that, the better. Battles A, B, and C with X, Y, and Z
killed is cold statistics; changing those who died from statistics into
'real people' just seems the right thing to do. Who knows? Buried in
amongst the thousands of last letters may be a few people as articulate
as Owen or Sassoon.


  Original Message 
 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters
 From: Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org
 Date: Wed, October 26, 2011 10:37 pm
 To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 
 On Wed, 2011-10-26 at 17:55 +0100, Tom Morris wrote:
  On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 22:55, Brian McNeil
 brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org wrote:
   A QR code could be placed at a relevant war memorial,
  
  Is that such a good idea?
  
  I like QR codes as much as the next person, but sticking
 them on war
  memorials may probing the limits of taste in Wikimedia
 outreach.
 
 Believe it or not, that's why I was careful to say *at*,
 as-opposed to
 *on*. I know I've a reputation for being crass, insensitive,
 and
 bloody-minded; but, vandalising war memorials is something
 I'd not
 contemplate. :P
 
 I'm glad to see others chime in regarding the potential for
 certain
 memorials being non-notable, or having insufficient reliable
 sources to
 get beyond stub status. The point here is not to drive traffic
 to
 Wikipedia, but to allow people to quickly access very personal
 documents.
 
 Even just doing everyone listed on a single monument will be
 notable
 enough to garner press coverage. From that, it will -
 hopefully - be
 possible to encourage other non-wiki people to get involved
 and carry
 out the same work for their local memorials.
 
 I've no idea how far this should be pushed, or how far it
 might go if it
 gains traction. The fallen of WW-I were not repatriated; I
 lived in
 Flanders for over ten years, I've seen the rows, and rows of
 white
 crosses in war cemeteries over there. I know a very large
 number of
 people visit these sites every year. If anyone can suggest a
 way to
 tastefully cross-link memorials in the UK listing those who
 died with
 the actual graves, that would seem the next logical step here.
 
 
 
 
 Brian McNeil.
 -- 
 http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil - Accredited
 Reporter.
 Facts don't cease to be facts, but news ceases to be news.
 
 
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-25 Thread Andy Mabbett
On 25 October 2011 22:55, Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org wrote:

All good stuff, but...

 A QR code could be placed at a relevant war memorial, it points to
 a Wikibook collecting all the soldiers' letters, with scans and transcripts.

I'd rather the QR code point (via QRpedia) to a Wikipedia article
about the memorial, and have that point to relevant pages on commons/
Wikisource, and the book.

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Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters

2011-10-25 Thread Andy Mabbett
I was assuming that part of the project would involve making sure the
article wasn't just a stub...

On 25 October 2011 23:32, Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org wrote:
 That's the sort of feedback I'm looking for, thanks.

 I've no intention of vigorously arguing one way or the other, but I just
 feel it is inappropriate to point to a Wikipedia article that may never
 get much beyond stub status when orders of magnitude more content is
 elsewhere on WMF projects.



 On Tue, 2011-10-25 at 23:07 +0100, Andy Mabbett wrote:
 On 25 October 2011 22:55, Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org wrote:

 All good stuff, but...

  A QR code could be placed at a relevant war memorial, it points to
  a Wikibook collecting all the soldiers' letters, with scans and 
  transcripts.

 I'd rather the QR code point (via QRpedia) to a Wikipedia article
 about the memorial, and have that point to relevant pages on commons/
 Wikisource, and the book.



 Brian McNeil.
 --
 http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil - Accredited Reporter.
 Facts don't cease to be facts, but news ceases to be news.


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http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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