date:20171118

Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel

2017-11-18 Thread Brian Wolff

I was wrong about Support_desk being permenantly semi-protected. It
was temporarily semi-protected for 3 days, but that's been lifted now.

Regardless of spam concerns, point still stands that it seems bad form
to semi-protect the venue where newbies are supposed to ask for help.
Not that i have any better solution to the spam issue.

--
bawolff

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:33 AM, Brian Wolff  wrote:
> Neither project:support_desk nor project:current_issues is really meant for
> that purpose - support desk is mainly for user and (external) sysadmin
> support. And current_issues is the village pump of mediawiki.org (the
> website not the software)
>
> Honestly, I kind of think that lqt was better than flow for support desk. As
> much as lqt sucked at least search sort of worked.
>
> Although the bigger problem probably is that project:support desk is
> protected so new users arent allowed to ask questions(!)
>
> On the subject of search, i do think that
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/robots.txt is rediculous. At least for technical
> lists we should let google in, and the privacy concern is silly as there are
> mirrors that are indexed.
>
> --
> bawolff
>
>
> On Saturday, November 18, 2017, Sam Wilson  wrote:
>> Hear hear to being able to properly search past conversations.
>>
>> I know it's not the fashionably geek thing to say, but I must admit that
>> I always find mailing lists to be incredibly annoying, compared to
>> forums. Not only is searching completely separate from reading, even
>> browsing old topics is another interface again (assuming one hasn't been
>> subscribed forever and kept every old message). Then, when you do manage
>> to find an old message, there's no way to reply to it (short of copying
>> and pasting and losing context).
>>
>> Maybe https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk (and its
>> sibling https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Current_issues ?) is the
>> best place to ask questions about the software, its development, and
>> other things. If so, let's make that fact much more well advertised!
>> (Although, I think Flow is brilliant, when it's for discussing a wiki
>> page — because the topic is already set (effectively by the title of the
>> page its attached to). When it's trying to be a host to multiple
>> unrelated topics, it becomes pretty annoying to use.)
>>
>> On Sun, 19 Nov 2017, at 05:57 AM, Niharika Kohli wrote:
>>> I'd like to add that having Discourse will provide the one thing IRC
>>> channels and mailing lists fail to - search capabilities. If you hangout
>>> on
>>> the #mediawiki IRC channel, you have probably noticed that we get a lot
>>> of
>>> repeat questions all the time. This would save everyone time and effort.
>>>
>>> Not to mention ease of use. Discourse is way more usable than IRC or
>>> mailing lists. Usability is the main reason there are so many questions
>>> about MediaWiki asked on Stackoverflow instead:
>>> https://stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/mediawiki
>>> ,
>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-api?sort=newest
>>> ,
>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-extensions...
>>>
>>> I'd personally hope we can stop asking developers to go to IRC or mailing
>>> lists eventually and use Discourse/something else as a discussion forum
>>> for
>>> support.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Quim Gil  wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi, I have expanded
>>> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse#One_place_to_
>>> > seek_developer_support
>>> >
>>> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk is the only channel
>>> > whose main purpose is to provide support. The volunteers maintaining
>>> > are
>>> > the ones to decide about its future. There is no rush for any decisions
>>> > there. First we need to run a successful pilot.
>>> >
>>> > The rest of channels (like this mailing list) were created for
>>> > something
>>> > else. If these channels stop receiving questions from new developers,
>>> > they
>>> > will continue doing whatever they do now.
>>> >
>>> > > I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve matters.
>>> >
>>> > For new developers arriving to our shores, being able to ask a first
>>> > question about any topic in one place with a familiar UI is a big
>>> > improvement over having to figure out a disseminated landscape of wiki
>>> > Talk
>>> > pages, mailing lists and IRC channels (especially if they are not used
>>> > to
>>> > any of these environments). The reason to propose this new space is
>>> > them,
>>> > not us.
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 5:01 PM, MZMcBride  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Brian Wolff wrote:
>>> > > >On Friday, November 17, 2017, Quim Gil  wrote:
>>> > > >> The Technical Collaboration team proposes the creation of a
>>> > > >> developer
>>> > > >> support channel focusing on newcomers, as part of our Onboarding
>>> > > >> New
>>> > > >>

Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel

2017-11-18 Thread Brian Wolff

Neither project:support_desk nor project:current_issues is really meant for
that purpose - support desk is mainly for user and (external) sysadmin
support. And current_issues is the village pump of mediawiki.org (the
website not the software)

Honestly, I kind of think that lqt was better than flow for support desk.
As much as lqt sucked at least search sort of worked.

Although the bigger problem probably is that project:support desk is
protected so new users arent allowed to ask questions(!)

On the subject of search, i do think that
https://lists.wikimedia.org/robots.txt is rediculous. At least for
technical lists we should let google in, and the privacy concern is silly
as there are mirrors that are indexed.

--
bawolff

On Saturday, November 18, 2017, Sam Wilson  wrote:
> Hear hear to being able to properly search past conversations.
>
> I know it's not the fashionably geek thing to say, but I must admit that
> I always find mailing lists to be incredibly annoying, compared to
> forums. Not only is searching completely separate from reading, even
> browsing old topics is another interface again (assuming one hasn't been
> subscribed forever and kept every old message). Then, when you do manage
> to find an old message, there's no way to reply to it (short of copying
> and pasting and losing context).
>
> Maybe https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk (and its
> sibling https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Current_issues ?) is the
> best place to ask questions about the software, its development, and
> other things. If so, let's make that fact much more well advertised!
> (Although, I think Flow is brilliant, when it's for discussing a wiki
> page — because the topic is already set (effectively by the title of the
> page its attached to). When it's trying to be a host to multiple
> unrelated topics, it becomes pretty annoying to use.)
>
> On Sun, 19 Nov 2017, at 05:57 AM, Niharika Kohli wrote:
>> I'd like to add that having Discourse will provide the one thing IRC
>> channels and mailing lists fail to - search capabilities. If you hangout
>> on
>> the #mediawiki IRC channel, you have probably noticed that we get a lot
>> of
>> repeat questions all the time. This would save everyone time and effort.
>>
>> Not to mention ease of use. Discourse is way more usable than IRC or
>> mailing lists. Usability is the main reason there are so many questions
>> about MediaWiki asked on Stackoverflow instead:
>> https://stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/mediawiki
>> ,
>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-api?sort=newest
>> ,
>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-extensions...
>>
>> I'd personally hope we can stop asking developers to go to IRC or mailing
>> lists eventually and use Discourse/something else as a discussion forum
>> for
>> support.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Quim Gil  wrote:
>>
>> > Hi, I have expanded
>> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse#One_place_to_
>> > seek_developer_support
>> >
>> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk is the only channel
>> > whose main purpose is to provide support. The volunteers maintaining
are
>> > the ones to decide about its future. There is no rush for any decisions
>> > there. First we need to run a successful pilot.
>> >
>> > The rest of channels (like this mailing list) were created for
something
>> > else. If these channels stop receiving questions from new developers,
they
>> > will continue doing whatever they do now.
>> >
>> > > I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve matters.
>> >
>> > For new developers arriving to our shores, being able to ask a first
>> > question about any topic in one place with a familiar UI is a big
>> > improvement over having to figure out a disseminated landscape of wiki
Talk
>> > pages, mailing lists and IRC channels (especially if they are not used
to
>> > any of these environments). The reason to propose this new space is
them,
>> > not us.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 5:01 PM, MZMcBride  wrote:
>> >
>> > > Brian Wolff wrote:
>> > > >On Friday, November 17, 2017, Quim Gil  wrote:
>> > > >> The Technical Collaboration team proposes the creation of a
developer
>> > > >> support channel focusing on newcomers, as part of our Onboarding
New
>> > > >> Developer program. We are proposing to create a site based on
>> > Discourse
>> > > >> (starting with a pilot in discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org) and to
>> > point
>> > > >>the many existing scattered channels there.
>> > > >
>> > > >What does point existing channels to discouse mean exactly? Are you
>> > > >planning to shutdown any existing channels? If so, which ones?
>> > >
>> > > Excellent questions. I'd like to know the answers as well.
>> > >
>> > > I raised a similar point at
>> > > . I skimmed
>> > >

Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel

2017-11-18 Thread Sam Wilson

Hear hear to being able to properly search past conversations.

I know it's not the fashionably geek thing to say, but I must admit that
I always find mailing lists to be incredibly annoying, compared to
forums. Not only is searching completely separate from reading, even
browsing old topics is another interface again (assuming one hasn't been
subscribed forever and kept every old message). Then, when you do manage
to find an old message, there's no way to reply to it (short of copying
and pasting and losing context).

Maybe https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk (and its
sibling https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Current_issues ?) is the
best place to ask questions about the software, its development, and
other things. If so, let's make that fact much more well advertised!
(Although, I think Flow is brilliant, when it's for discussing a wiki
page — because the topic is already set (effectively by the title of the
page its attached to). When it's trying to be a host to multiple
unrelated topics, it becomes pretty annoying to use.)

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017, at 05:57 AM, Niharika Kohli wrote:
> I'd like to add that having Discourse will provide the one thing IRC
> channels and mailing lists fail to - search capabilities. If you hangout
> on
> the #mediawiki IRC channel, you have probably noticed that we get a lot
> of
> repeat questions all the time. This would save everyone time and effort.
> 
> Not to mention ease of use. Discourse is way more usable than IRC or
> mailing lists. Usability is the main reason there are so many questions
> about MediaWiki asked on Stackoverflow instead:
> https://stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/mediawiki
> ,
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-api?sort=newest
> ,
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-extensions...
> 
> I'd personally hope we can stop asking developers to go to IRC or mailing
> lists eventually and use Discourse/something else as a discussion forum
> for
> support.
> 
> On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Quim Gil  wrote:
> 
> > Hi, I have expanded
> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse#One_place_to_
> > seek_developer_support
> >
> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk is the only channel
> > whose main purpose is to provide support. The volunteers maintaining are
> > the ones to decide about its future. There is no rush for any decisions
> > there. First we need to run a successful pilot.
> >
> > The rest of channels (like this mailing list) were created for something
> > else. If these channels stop receiving questions from new developers, they
> > will continue doing whatever they do now.
> >
> > > I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve matters.
> >
> > For new developers arriving to our shores, being able to ask a first
> > question about any topic in one place with a familiar UI is a big
> > improvement over having to figure out a disseminated landscape of wiki Talk
> > pages, mailing lists and IRC channels (especially if they are not used to
> > any of these environments). The reason to propose this new space is them,
> > not us.
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 5:01 PM, MZMcBride  wrote:
> >
> > > Brian Wolff wrote:
> > > >On Friday, November 17, 2017, Quim Gil  wrote:
> > > >> The Technical Collaboration team proposes the creation of a developer
> > > >> support channel focusing on newcomers, as part of our Onboarding New
> > > >> Developer program. We are proposing to create a site based on
> > Discourse
> > > >> (starting with a pilot in discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org) and to
> > point
> > > >>the many existing scattered channels there.
> > > >
> > > >What does point existing channels to discouse mean exactly? Are you
> > > >planning to shutdown any existing channels? If so, which ones?
> > >
> > > Excellent questions. I'd like to know the answers as well.
> > >
> > > I raised a similar point at
> > > . I skimmed
> > > , looking for some answers,
> > and
> > > I didn't find any.
> > >
> > > Quim, are you involved in MediaWiki support in places such as the
> > > #mediawiki IRC channel or the mediawiki-l mailing list? Are you involved
> > > in MediaWiki support elsewhere? I'm trying to better understand how it
> > > would be appropriate for you to seemingly suggest disrupting or shutting
> > > down these established and functioning venues. If this is not your
> > > suggestion, I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve
> > matters.
> > >
> > > MZMcBride
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Quim Gil
> > Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundatio

Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel

2017-11-18 Thread Quim Gil

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 11:04 PM, Max Semenik  wrote:

> Who's gonna maintain this installation?
>

The current status is explained at
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse#Maintenance

This is a proposal coming from the Technical Collaboration team and we have
more or less everything we need to run the pilot. The draft plan already
says that in the mid term (and before moving to production) we need to
clarify what is the involvement of the Wikimedia Cloud Services team (who
also organizes developer support activities) and Operations. These
conversations are just starting with the publication of the draft plan.

-- 
Quim Gil
Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
___
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel

2017-11-18 Thread Max Semenik

Who's gonna maintain this installation?

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 1:57 PM, Niharika Kohli 
wrote:

> I'd like to add that having Discourse will provide the one thing IRC
> channels and mailing lists fail to - search capabilities. If you hangout on
> the #mediawiki IRC channel, you have probably noticed that we get a lot of
> repeat questions all the time. This would save everyone time and effort.
>
> Not to mention ease of use. Discourse is way more usable than IRC or
> mailing lists. Usability is the main reason there are so many questions
> about MediaWiki asked on Stackoverflow instead:
> https://stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/mediawiki
> ,
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-api?sort=newest
> ,
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-extensions...
>
> I'd personally hope we can stop asking developers to go to IRC or mailing
> lists eventually and use Discourse/something else as a discussion forum for
> support.
>
> On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Quim Gil  wrote:
>
> > Hi, I have expanded
> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse#One_place_to_
> > seek_developer_support
> >
> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk is the only channel
> > whose main purpose is to provide support. The volunteers maintaining are
> > the ones to decide about its future. There is no rush for any decisions
> > there. First we need to run a successful pilot.
> >
> > The rest of channels (like this mailing list) were created for something
> > else. If these channels stop receiving questions from new developers,
> they
> > will continue doing whatever they do now.
> >
> > > I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve matters.
> >
> > For new developers arriving to our shores, being able to ask a first
> > question about any topic in one place with a familiar UI is a big
> > improvement over having to figure out a disseminated landscape of wiki
> Talk
> > pages, mailing lists and IRC channels (especially if they are not used to
> > any of these environments). The reason to propose this new space is them,
> > not us.
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 5:01 PM, MZMcBride  wrote:
> >
> > > Brian Wolff wrote:
> > > >On Friday, November 17, 2017, Quim Gil  wrote:
> > > >> The Technical Collaboration team proposes the creation of a
> developer
> > > >> support channel focusing on newcomers, as part of our Onboarding New
> > > >> Developer program. We are proposing to create a site based on
> > Discourse
> > > >> (starting with a pilot in discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org) and to
> > point
> > > >>the many existing scattered channels there.
> > > >
> > > >What does point existing channels to discouse mean exactly? Are you
> > > >planning to shutdown any existing channels? If so, which ones?
> > >
> > > Excellent questions. I'd like to know the answers as well.
> > >
> > > I raised a similar point at
> > > . I skimmed
> > > , looking for some answers,
> > and
> > > I didn't find any.
> > >
> > > Quim, are you involved in MediaWiki support in places such as the
> > > #mediawiki IRC channel or the mediawiki-l mailing list? Are you
> involved
> > > in MediaWiki support elsewhere? I'm trying to better understand how it
> > > would be appropriate for you to seemingly suggest disrupting or
> shutting
> > > down these established and functioning venues. If this is not your
> > > suggestion, I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve
> > matters.
> > >
> > > MZMcBride
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Quim Gil
> > Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
> > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
> > ___
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Niharika
> Software Engineer
> Community Tech
> Wikimedia Foundation
> ___
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>



-- 
Best regards,
Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel

2017-11-18 Thread Niharika Kohli

I'd like to add that having Discourse will provide the one thing IRC
channels and mailing lists fail to - search capabilities. If you hangout on
the #mediawiki IRC channel, you have probably noticed that we get a lot of
repeat questions all the time. This would save everyone time and effort.

Not to mention ease of use. Discourse is way more usable than IRC or
mailing lists. Usability is the main reason there are so many questions
about MediaWiki asked on Stackoverflow instead:
https://stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/mediawiki
,
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-api?sort=newest
,
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-extensions...

I'd personally hope we can stop asking developers to go to IRC or mailing
lists eventually and use Discourse/something else as a discussion forum for
support.

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Quim Gil  wrote:

> Hi, I have expanded
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse#One_place_to_
> seek_developer_support
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk is the only channel
> whose main purpose is to provide support. The volunteers maintaining are
> the ones to decide about its future. There is no rush for any decisions
> there. First we need to run a successful pilot.
>
> The rest of channels (like this mailing list) were created for something
> else. If these channels stop receiving questions from new developers, they
> will continue doing whatever they do now.
>
> > I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve matters.
>
> For new developers arriving to our shores, being able to ask a first
> question about any topic in one place with a familiar UI is a big
> improvement over having to figure out a disseminated landscape of wiki Talk
> pages, mailing lists and IRC channels (especially if they are not used to
> any of these environments). The reason to propose this new space is them,
> not us.
>
> On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 5:01 PM, MZMcBride  wrote:
>
> > Brian Wolff wrote:
> > >On Friday, November 17, 2017, Quim Gil  wrote:
> > >> The Technical Collaboration team proposes the creation of a developer
> > >> support channel focusing on newcomers, as part of our Onboarding New
> > >> Developer program. We are proposing to create a site based on
> Discourse
> > >> (starting with a pilot in discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org) and to
> point
> > >>the many existing scattered channels there.
> > >
> > >What does point existing channels to discouse mean exactly? Are you
> > >planning to shutdown any existing channels? If so, which ones?
> >
> > Excellent questions. I'd like to know the answers as well.
> >
> > I raised a similar point at
> > . I skimmed
> > , looking for some answers,
> and
> > I didn't find any.
> >
> > Quim, are you involved in MediaWiki support in places such as the
> > #mediawiki IRC channel or the mediawiki-l mailing list? Are you involved
> > in MediaWiki support elsewhere? I'm trying to better understand how it
> > would be appropriate for you to seemingly suggest disrupting or shutting
> > down these established and functioning venues. If this is not your
> > suggestion, I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve
> matters.
> >
> > MZMcBride
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Quim Gil
> Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
> ___
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>



-- 
Niharika
Software Engineer
Community Tech
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel

2017-11-18 Thread Quim Gil

Hi, I have expanded
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse#One_place_to_seek_developer_support

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk is the only channel
whose main purpose is to provide support. The volunteers maintaining are
the ones to decide about its future. There is no rush for any decisions
there. First we need to run a successful pilot.

The rest of channels (like this mailing list) were created for something
else. If these channels stop receiving questions from new developers, they
will continue doing whatever they do now.

> I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve matters.

For new developers arriving to our shores, being able to ask a first
question about any topic in one place with a familiar UI is a big
improvement over having to figure out a disseminated landscape of wiki Talk
pages, mailing lists and IRC channels (especially if they are not used to
any of these environments). The reason to propose this new space is them,
not us.

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 5:01 PM, MZMcBride  wrote:

> Brian Wolff wrote:
> >On Friday, November 17, 2017, Quim Gil  wrote:
> >> The Technical Collaboration team proposes the creation of a developer
> >> support channel focusing on newcomers, as part of our Onboarding New
> >> Developer program. We are proposing to create a site based on Discourse
> >> (starting with a pilot in discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org) and to point
> >>the many existing scattered channels there.
> >
> >What does point existing channels to discouse mean exactly? Are you
> >planning to shutdown any existing channels? If so, which ones?
>
> Excellent questions. I'd like to know the answers as well.
>
> I raised a similar point at
> . I skimmed
> , looking for some answers, and
> I didn't find any.
>
> Quim, are you involved in MediaWiki support in places such as the
> #mediawiki IRC channel or the mediawiki-l mailing list? Are you involved
> in MediaWiki support elsewhere? I'm trying to better understand how it
> would be appropriate for you to seemingly suggest disrupting or shutting
> down these established and functioning venues. If this is not your
> suggestion, I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve matters.
>
> MZMcBride
>
>
>
> ___
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

-- 
Quim Gil
Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
___
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[Wikitech-l] [MediaWiki-announce] Security release: 1.29.2 / 1.28.3 / 1.27.4

2017-11-18 Thread Sam Reed

I would like to announce the release of MediaWiki 1.29.2, 1.28.3 and 1.27.4!

These releases fix nine security issues in core and one related issue in
the vendor
folder. Download links are given at the end of this email.

Patches will be pushed to gerrit after this email is sent, and will land
into the relevant
branches as fast as our CI infrastructure allows. Git tags will follow soon
after. All related
tasks will be made public in phabricator too in the following few hours.

Please note that this month is the End-Of-Life date for MediaWiki 1.28. This
means that MediaWiki 1.28.3 will be the last security release for that
version, barring any unforeseen issues. We would strongly encourage users of
MediaWiki 1.28 to upgrade to MediaWiki 1.29, released in July 2017, or a yet
newer version as soon as possible. MediaWiki 1.29 will be supported until
July
2018. See  for more
information.

This release also serves as a maintenance release for these branches.

== Security fixes ==
* (T128209) Reflected File Download from api.php. Reported by Abdullah
Hussam. (CVE-2017-8809)
* (T165846) BotPasswords doesn't throttle login attempts.
* (T134100) On private wikis, login form shouldn't distinguish between
login failure
  due to bad username and bad password. (CVE-2017-8810)
* (T178451) XSS when $wgShowExceptionDetails = false and browser sends
  non-standard url escaping. (CVE-2017-8808)
* (T176247) It's possible to mangle HTML via raw message parameter
expansion.
  (CVE-2017-8811)
* (T125163) id attribute on headlines allow raw >. (CVE-2017-8812)
* (T124404) language converter can be tricked into replacing text inside
tags by
  adding a lot of junk after the rule definition. (CVE-2017-8814)
* (T119158) Language converter: unsafe attribute injection via glossary
rules (CVE-2017-8815)

The following only affects 1.29:
* (T180488) (T125177) "api.log contains passwords in plaintext" wasn't
correctly fixed in all
  branches in the previous security release. (CVE-2017-0361)

The following only affects 1.27 and 1.28:
* (T180231) composer.json has require-dev versions of PHPUnit with known
security
  issues. Reported by Tom Hutchison. (CVE-2017-9841)

It is recommended to run `composer update --no-dev` after upgrading to MW
1.27.4 or
1.28.3 if you installed MediaWiki via git. If you are using the tarball,
you are not affected,
and you do not need to run this command. This will remove developer
dependancies that
production wikis do not require. If you require developer dependancies, run
`composer update` which will update to a version of PHPUnit without known
RCE.

If you cannot run `composer update` for any reason, it is recommended that
you delete the
offending file as a minimum yourself using the following command:

`rm -rf vendor/phpunit/phpunit/src/Util/PHP/eval-stdin.php`

== Links to all mentioned tasks ==
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T128209
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T165846
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T134100
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T178451
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T176247
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T125163
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T180231
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T125163
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T124404
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119158
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T180488
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T125177

== Release notes ==

Full release notes for 1.27.4:
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/diffusion/MW/browse/REL1_27/RELEASE-NOTES-1.27
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Release_notes/1.27

Full release notes for 1.28.3:
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/diffusion/MW/browse/REL1_28/RELEASE-NOTES-1.28
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Release_notes/1.28

Full release notes for 1.29.2:
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/diffusion/MW/browse/REL1_29/RELEASE-NOTES-1.29
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Release_notes/1.29

For information about how to upgrade, see


**
Download:
https://releases.wikimedia.org/mediawiki/1.27/mediawiki-1.27.4.tar.gz

Download without bundled extensions:
https://releases.wikimedia.org/mediawiki/1.27/mediawiki-core-1.27.4.tar.gz

Patch to previous version (1.27.3):
https://releases.wikimedia.org/mediawiki/1.27/mediawiki-1.27.4.patch.gz

GPG signatures:
https://releases.wikimedia.org/mediawiki/1.27/mediawiki-core-1.27.4.tar.gz.sig
https://releases.wikimedia.org/mediawiki/1.27/mediawiki-1.27.4.tar.gz.sig
https://releases.wikimedia.org/mediawiki/1.27/mediawiki-1.27.4.patch.gz.sig

Public keys:
https://www.mediawiki.org/keys/keys.html

**
Download:
https://releases.wikimedia.org/mediawiki/1.28/mediawiki-1.28.3.tar.gz

Download without bundled extensions:
https://releases.wikimedia.org/mediawiki/1.28/mediawiki-core-1.28.3.tar.gz

Patch to previous version (1.28.2):
https://releases.wik

Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel

2017-11-18 Thread MZMcBride

Brian Wolff wrote:
>On Friday, November 17, 2017, Quim Gil  wrote:
>> The Technical Collaboration team proposes the creation of a developer
>> support channel focusing on newcomers, as part of our Onboarding New
>> Developer program. We are proposing to create a site based on Discourse
>> (starting with a pilot in discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org) and to point
>>the many existing scattered channels there.
>
>What does point existing channels to discouse mean exactly? Are you
>planning to shutdown any existing channels? If so, which ones?

Excellent questions. I'd like to know the answers as well.

I raised a similar point at
. I skimmed
, looking for some answers, and
I didn't find any.

Quim, are you involved in MediaWiki support in places such as the
#mediawiki IRC channel or the mediawiki-l mailing list? Are you involved
in MediaWiki support elsewhere? I'm trying to better understand how it
would be appropriate for you to seemingly suggest disrupting or shutting
down these established and functioning venues. If this is not your
suggestion, I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve matters.

MZMcBride

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Thoughts for handy features

2017-11-18 Thread Gergo Tisza

As it happens, the yearly feature wishlist collection process is taking
proposals right now; you might want to check it out. [0]

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:15 PM, John Elliot V  wrote:

> 1. For links to articles in sections on the same page it would be really
> handy if we had syntax like: [[#unity|]] which would auto-complete to
> [[#unity|unity]] for you.
>

If you feel like writing a patch, this kind of thing is called a pre-save
transform, and handled in Parser::pstPass2().

> 2. For duplicated content it would be handy if you could define a bunch
> of "variables" down the bottom of a page and then reference them from
> elsewhere. I am aware of templates, but those are overkill and difficult
> to maintain per my use case (my use case is documenting the "purpose" of
> a computer, I duplicate this in various places, but don't want to
> maintain templates for that).
>

That's the Variables extension [1] if you want to use it on the same page,
or the Labeled Section Transclusion extension [2] if you want to reference
it elsewhere. I doubt you end up with something that's easier to maintain,
though.

> 3. It would be cool if for any given wiki page an "estimated reading
> time" could be provided. Along with maybe a word count, character count,
> etc.
>

https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikipedia-readability/ provides Flesch-Kincaid
scores, although not inside the page.

[0] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/2017_Community_Wishlist_Survey
[1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Variables
[2] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Labeled_Section_Transclusion
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel

Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel

Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel

Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel

Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel

Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel

Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel

[Wikitech-l] [MediaWiki-announce] Security release: 1.29.2 / 1.28.3 / 1.27.4

Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel

Re: [Wikitech-l] Thoughts for handy features

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