Re: [Wikitech-l] A new project - Wikicards

2013-04-10 Thread Gaurav Chawla
Sorry, I was unable to repond for last two days, I had some academic work
to be done.

Thankyou for the discussion and the much needed feedback.

As from the various discussions (bugzilla, my talk page and this thread),
it turns out that this project is not as feasible or worthy enough to be
applying with. I understand that improving the existing projects is much
more important for our awesome wiki to grow better. Hence, I am thinking to
drop (Can we apply for multiple projects?) this as an application for GSOC
2013, because without its (wikicards') edit-ability, it will be nearly
re-inventing the wheel(or rather Navigation popups, to be precise).

I had already started making it though, and now it would probably complete
in a couple of days or by this weekend. But, these new wikicards will not
be editable :( , no subject-specific subtitles any sooner and loading the
links will probably make it slow (will have to search almost 7 times to
fetch 1 card, for the time being, until I research more about all the
available APIs). In short, these cards = Navigation popups + links +
universally accessible.


and for the GSOC, I am on the hunt for projects again :)

Thankyou again for this great help.

Regards,
Gaurav Chawla

On 9 April 2013 09:13, Matthew Flaschen mflasc...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 On 04/07/2013 03:24 PM, Gaurav Chawla wrote:
  - I introduced voting to include the users view into the
  information/definition that wikIcards will show. That will give a more
  accepted defn.

 I agree with Quim (on the bug).  Consensus is a better approach for
 content (voting on such things is vulnerable to gamesmanship and mob
 rule).

 I am also skeptical of this as a WMF project.  Slightly rethought,
 though, it could certainly be a cool use of the Wikipedia and Wikidata
 APIs and/or dumps.

 Matt Flaschen

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Re: [Wikitech-l] A new project - Wikicards

2013-04-10 Thread Quim Gil

On 04/10/2013 12:33 PM, Gaurav Chawla wrote:

(Can we apply for multiple projects?)


Yes.

http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2013/help_page#6._Can_a_student_submit_more_than_one

You can technically submit many projects to many organizations. In 
practice we'd rather help you submitting a good one with us.  :)



and for the GSOC, I am on the hunt for projects again :)


I know you know it, but there are many project ideas with mentors 
available at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2013



Thank you again for this great help.


Thank you for your willingness to experiment and contribute regardless 
of GSOC and whatever we say. It is essential to believe in you and your 
ideas. That's the spirit!  :)


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http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil

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Re: [Wikitech-l] A new project - Wikicards

2013-04-08 Thread Sumana Harihareswara
On 04/07/2013 02:52 PM, Max Semenik wrote:
 On 07.04.2013, 20:11 Paul wrote:
 
 Indeed. We have a Universal Language Selector for 3rd party websites
 already. This one would be super-duper great. This is where Wikidata
 can play its part as well!
 
 As for images, we have already a PageImages extension in all wikis,
 and we have Wikidata, where item properties may point to images.
 
 Also, there's Navigation popups[1] while with
 api.php?action=queryprop=extracts you can get the text of page lede,
 or N first sentences. To summarize, almost everything (or
 eveerything) needed for this project is already available, so in a
 couple hours of hacking it should be possible to hack the navpopups to
 work in the way described in the proposal. I wonder how much reasearch
 have the proposer done before making it public? Nevertheless, I'm not
 saying that this proposal is not worth a SoC, however it should be
 heavily revised based on input from this thread, then we could decide
 if it has enough potential.

I'm glad Gaurav shared this proposal with us so early so that we can
help with criticism and other feedback.  Everyone else reading this
who's thinking about proposing a summer project: please tell the list
ASAP so we can help you too!

I think my main concern regarding Gaurav's proposal is the same one
Yaron mentioned in https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Grv99 : as
our guidelines state, YES to projects already backed by a Wikimedia
community. NO to projects requiring Wikipedia to be convinced.
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2013#Your_project

Gaurav, the reason we have these guidelines is that we have seen past
failures and want to avoid them in the future.

Maybe you could consider thinking about what you are really interested
in and finding a more achievable way of working towards that within the
structure of GSoC.  For example, if you want to ensure that there's a
canonical photo and one-sentence summary associated with every article
topic, maybe you could work with Wikidata on that -- and then a future
student can improve the Navigation Popups gadget (and spread it across
all the wikis) to make use of the photo and summary sentence.  That's
just one idea for an approach that's more likely to succeed.
-- 
Sumana Harihareswara
Engineering Community Manager
Wikimedia Foundation

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Re: [Wikitech-l] A new project - Wikicards

2013-04-08 Thread Waldir Pimenta
I share Sumana's and Max's concerns. The lead paragraph and the lead
sentence of the article are indeed meant to provide a good, stand-alone
summary of the subject, withing the limits of their corresponding lengths.
The guidelines concerning these are located at
WP:LEADhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_sectionand
its section
WP:BEGINhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section#First_sentence,
respectively. The changes you suggest as an example for the Madonna article
are actually largely compatible with the spirit of those guidelines. I
suggest you to become familiarized with both as you review your proposal.
You should also take a look at
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Concise_Wikipedia, which presents several of
the use cases you already mention. The Related projects/proposals section
of that page is particularly interesting for seeing what others have
already proposed/implemented.

In summary, I think your proposal *could* be useful if it implemented a way
to provide subject-specfic layouts for the article leads or first sentences
(e.g. highlighting the birth date if it's a person, etc), but
Wikidatahttps://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Introductionkind of
renders such a heuristic and/or manual annotation approach
obsolete, since those pieces of information will be explicitly annotated as
such and in a much universal way than the current semantic markup systems
such as PERSONDATA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Persondata. Not
to mention the advantage of not requiring manual sync between the
cardified data and the current lead section, and also the ability to use
the same set of data in any Wikipedia, and indeed, in any site of the web
as Wikidata matures.

My suggestion is to reconsider your proposal, but I would like to leave you
a word of encouragement, since you clearly had a good idea (the fact that
many before you have thought of ways to tackle the same problems ratifies
that), and took the time to investigate existing implementations (i.e. the
Popups) and create a detailed exposition to your plan. I'm sure your GSoC
project, whatever you choose, will have good chances of success. Keep up
the good work!


On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Sumana Harihareswara
suma...@wikimedia.orgwrote:

 On 04/07/2013 02:52 PM, Max Semenik wrote:
  On 07.04.2013, 20:11 Paul wrote:
 
  Indeed. We have a Universal Language Selector for 3rd party websites
  already. This one would be super-duper great. This is where Wikidata
  can play its part as well!
 
  As for images, we have already a PageImages extension in all wikis,
  and we have Wikidata, where item properties may point to images.
 
  Also, there's Navigation popups[1] while with
  api.php?action=queryprop=extracts you can get the text of page lede,
  or N first sentences. To summarize, almost everything (or
  eveerything) needed for this project is already available, so in a
  couple hours of hacking it should be possible to hack the navpopups to
  work in the way described in the proposal. I wonder how much reasearch
  have the proposer done before making it public? Nevertheless, I'm not
  saying that this proposal is not worth a SoC, however it should be
  heavily revised based on input from this thread, then we could decide
  if it has enough potential.

 I'm glad Gaurav shared this proposal with us so early so that we can
 help with criticism and other feedback.  Everyone else reading this
 who's thinking about proposing a summer project: please tell the list
 ASAP so we can help you too!

 I think my main concern regarding Gaurav's proposal is the same one
 Yaron mentioned in https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Grv99 : as
 our guidelines state, YES to projects already backed by a Wikimedia
 community. NO to projects requiring Wikipedia to be convinced.
 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2013#Your_project

 Gaurav, the reason we have these guidelines is that we have seen past
 failures and want to avoid them in the future.

 Maybe you could consider thinking about what you are really interested
 in and finding a more achievable way of working towards that within the
 structure of GSoC.  For example, if you want to ensure that there's a
 canonical photo and one-sentence summary associated with every article
 topic, maybe you could work with Wikidata on that -- and then a future
 student can improve the Navigation Popups gadget (and spread it across
 all the wikis) to make use of the photo and summary sentence.  That's
 just one idea for an approach that's more likely to succeed.
 --
 Sumana Harihareswara
 Engineering Community Manager
 Wikimedia Foundation

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Re: [Wikitech-l] A new project - Wikicards

2013-04-08 Thread Matthew Flaschen
On 04/07/2013 03:24 PM, Gaurav Chawla wrote:
 - I introduced voting to include the users view into the
 information/definition that wikIcards will show. That will give a more
 accepted defn.

I agree with Quim (on the bug).  Consensus is a better approach for
content (voting on such things is vulnerable to gamesmanship and mob
rule).

I am also skeptical of this as a WMF project.  Slightly rethought,
though, it could certainly be a cool use of the Wikipedia and Wikidata
APIs and/or dumps.

Matt Flaschen

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[Wikitech-l] A new project - Wikicards

2013-04-07 Thread Gaurav Chawla
Hello,

I am Gaurav Chawla, an undergraduate student at IIT Roorkee, India.
I am applying for this year's Google Summer of Code as a developer for
Wikimedia. For the past few days, I have been researching about any new
improvement or extension in funtionality that can be introduced to this
awesome wiki and finally came up with this idea: WikIcards - small
information cards.
I have drafted a project proposal with full description of WikIcards and
also a sample structure of it at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Grv99

I have also filed it as an extension request (Bug 46970) at
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46970

I request you to go through this new project and give your suggestions and
feedback. You can give the feedback on the bug report. Alternatively, you
can also add your suggestions at Suggestions section near the end of the
project proposal page. Please comment on its feasibility too.

Hoping for a good response.

Thank you.

Regards,
Gaurav Chawla
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Re: [Wikitech-l] A new project - Wikicards

2013-04-07 Thread Petr Bena
On first sight I was like WTF is he proposing.

Then I read your proposal and it sounds very nice. I hope you will be
able to make it happen.

On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Gaurav Chawla grvi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello,

 I am Gaurav Chawla, an undergraduate student at IIT Roorkee, India.
 I am applying for this year's Google Summer of Code as a developer for
 Wikimedia. For the past few days, I have been researching about any new
 improvement or extension in funtionality that can be introduced to this
 awesome wiki and finally came up with this idea: WikIcards - small
 information cards.
 I have drafted a project proposal with full description of WikIcards and
 also a sample structure of it at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Grv99

 I have also filed it as an extension request (Bug 46970) at
 https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46970

 I request you to go through this new project and give your suggestions and
 feedback. You can give the feedback on the bug report. Alternatively, you
 can also add your suggestions at Suggestions section near the end of the
 project proposal page. Please comment on its feasibility too.

 Hoping for a good response.

 Thank you.

 Regards,
 Gaurav Chawla
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Re: [Wikitech-l] A new project - Wikicards

2013-04-07 Thread Petr Bena
I think you should describe more how these cards are supposed to be
created. I think there should be special elements in wiki code that
can mark some text as something that is supposed to be in wiki card.

Like:

''card'John Fitzgerald''' '''Jack''' '''Kennedy''' (May 29,
1917nbsp;– November 22, 1963), often referred to by his initials
'''JFK''', was the [[List of Presidents of the United States|35th]]
[[President of the United States]]/card, serving from 1961 until
[[Assassination of John F. Kennedy|his death]] in 1963.

(note the card markup tags)

This way you could update the card content together with article so
that you would ensure it's synced

On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Petr Bena benap...@gmail.com wrote:
 On first sight I was like WTF is he proposing.

 Then I read your proposal and it sounds very nice. I hope you will be
 able to make it happen.

 On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Gaurav Chawla grvi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello,

 I am Gaurav Chawla, an undergraduate student at IIT Roorkee, India.
 I am applying for this year's Google Summer of Code as a developer for
 Wikimedia. For the past few days, I have been researching about any new
 improvement or extension in funtionality that can be introduced to this
 awesome wiki and finally came up with this idea: WikIcards - small
 information cards.
 I have drafted a project proposal with full description of WikIcards and
 also a sample structure of it at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Grv99

 I have also filed it as an extension request (Bug 46970) at
 https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46970

 I request you to go through this new project and give your suggestions and
 feedback. You can give the feedback on the bug report. Alternatively, you
 can also add your suggestions at Suggestions section near the end of the
 project proposal page. Please comment on its feasibility too.

 Hoping for a good response.

 Thank you.

 Regards,
 Gaurav Chawla
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Re: [Wikitech-l] A new project - Wikicards

2013-04-07 Thread Paul Selitskas
Indeed. We have a Universal Language Selector for 3rd party websites
already. This one would be super-duper great. This is where Wikidata
can play its part as well!

As for images, we have already a PageImages extension in all wikis,
and we have Wikidata, where item properties may point to images.

On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 7:05 PM, Petr Bena benap...@gmail.com wrote:
 On first sight I was like WTF is he proposing.

 Then I read your proposal and it sounds very nice. I hope you will be
 able to make it happen.

 On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Gaurav Chawla grvi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello,

 I am Gaurav Chawla, an undergraduate student at IIT Roorkee, India.
 I am applying for this year's Google Summer of Code as a developer for
 Wikimedia. For the past few days, I have been researching about any new
 improvement or extension in funtionality that can be introduced to this
 awesome wiki and finally came up with this idea: WikIcards - small
 information cards.
 I have drafted a project proposal with full description of WikIcards and
 also a sample structure of it at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Grv99

 I have also filed it as an extension request (Bug 46970) at
 https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46970

 I request you to go through this new project and give your suggestions and
 feedback. You can give the feedback on the bug report. Alternatively, you
 can also add your suggestions at Suggestions section near the end of the
 project proposal page. Please comment on its feasibility too.

 Hoping for a good response.

 Thank you.

 Regards,
 Gaurav Chawla
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З павагай,
Павел Селіцкас/Pavel Selitskas
Wizardist @ Wikimedia projects

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Re: [Wikitech-l] A new project - Wikicards

2013-04-07 Thread Nischay Nahata
Wow! That looks like an amazing proposal even in its inception.
With more refinement it will have great potential.


On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 9:41 PM, Paul Selitskas p.selits...@gmail.comwrote:

 Indeed. We have a Universal Language Selector for 3rd party websites
 already. This one would be super-duper great. This is where Wikidata
 can play its part as well!

 As for images, we have already a PageImages extension in all wikis,
 and we have Wikidata, where item properties may point to images.

 On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 7:05 PM, Petr Bena benap...@gmail.com wrote:
  On first sight I was like WTF is he proposing.
 
  Then I read your proposal and it sounds very nice. I hope you will be
  able to make it happen.
 
  On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Gaurav Chawla grvi...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hello,
 
  I am Gaurav Chawla, an undergraduate student at IIT Roorkee, India.
  I am applying for this year's Google Summer of Code as a developer for
  Wikimedia. For the past few days, I have been researching about any new
  improvement or extension in funtionality that can be introduced to this
  awesome wiki and finally came up with this idea: WikIcards - small
  information cards.
  I have drafted a project proposal with full description of WikIcards and
  also a sample structure of it at
 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Grv99
 
  I have also filed it as an extension request (Bug 46970) at
  https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46970
 
  I request you to go through this new project and give your suggestions
 and
  feedback. You can give the feedback on the bug report. Alternatively,
 you
  can also add your suggestions at Suggestions section near the end of
 the
  project proposal page. Please comment on its feasibility too.
 
  Hoping for a good response.
 
  Thank you.
 
  Regards,
  Gaurav Chawla
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Cheers,

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nischayn22.in
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Re: [Wikitech-l] A new project - Wikicards

2013-04-07 Thread Max Semenik
On 07.04.2013, 20:11 Paul wrote:

 Indeed. We have a Universal Language Selector for 3rd party websites
 already. This one would be super-duper great. This is where Wikidata
 can play its part as well!

 As for images, we have already a PageImages extension in all wikis,
 and we have Wikidata, where item properties may point to images.

Also, there's Navigation popups[1] while with
api.php?action=queryprop=extracts you can get the text of page lede,
or N first sentences. To summarize, almost everything (or
eveerything) needed for this project is already available, so in a
couple hours of hacking it should be possible to hack the navpopups to
work in the way described in the proposal. I wonder how much reasearch
have the proposer done before making it public? Nevertheless, I'm not
saying that this proposal is not worth a SoC, however it should be
heavily revised based on input from this thread, then we could decide
if it has enough potential.


-- 
Best regards,
  Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])


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Re: [Wikitech-l] A new project - Wikicards

2013-04-07 Thread Gaurav Chawla
Thanks for the feedback.

My idea is to initially take the data from the intro of wiki page, but when
somebody suggests a change, then the suggestions will be put up for voting.
Most voted suggestion will go onto the card.

I really like that idea of putting special tags for syncing. But, won't
that change the literal structure of the main article?

For example: If I use these tags on Madonna's wikipage,

Madonna Louise Ciccone[1] (/t??'ko?ne?/ chi-koh-nay; born August 16, 1958)
is an American singer-songwriter, actress, director, dancer, and
entrepreneur. card Born in Bay City, Michigan, she moved to New York City
in 1977 to pursue a career in modern dance and performed in the music
groups Breakfast Club and Emmy./card
br /
Madonna is known for continuously reinventing both her music and image, and
for retaining a standard of autonomy within the recording industry. She
attained immense popularity by pushing the boundaries of lyrical content in
mainstream popular music and imagery in her music videos, which became a
fixture on MTV. Critics have praised her.

And I change the card content to something like..An influential pop
culture icon, Madonna is known for continuously reinventing her music and
image. Her work often include explicit content which drives her into
controversies. (And then some of her best musics.)

In this particular case, two things are happening:
1. The previous data that was irrelevant as card content but was relevant
and good for the main article is now gone.
2. The literal structure of the article is damaged. There may be immediate
repetition of information, or sudden change in the flow of article, or
something else like that.

And that's why I am planning to either save its definition part on Wikidata
or make its own database/table for saving. What do you think? Is there any
other better solution for this problem?
One thing that comes to my mind is, we can fetch it from the wiki page as
long as it's not changed from it's initial version and once changed we can
then, save it in database and call from there. But, this will make it
fragmented :-/


On 7 April 2013 21:40, Petr Bena benap...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think you should describe more how these cards are supposed to be
 created. I think there should be special elements in wiki code that
 can mark some text as something that is supposed to be in wiki card.

 Like:

 ''card'John Fitzgerald''' '''Jack''' '''Kennedy''' (May 29,
 1917nbsp;– November 22, 1963), often referred to by his initials
 '''JFK''', was the [[List of Presidents of the United States|35th]]
 [[President of the United States]]/card, serving from 1961 until
 [[Assassination of John F. Kennedy|his death]] in 1963.

 (note the card markup tags)

 This way you could update the card content together with article so
 that you would ensure it's synced

 On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Petr Bena benap...@gmail.com wrote:
  On first sight I was like WTF is he proposing.
 
  Then I read your proposal and it sounds very nice. I hope you will be
  able to make it happen.
 
  On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Gaurav Chawla grvi...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hello,
 
  I am Gaurav Chawla, an undergraduate student at IIT Roorkee, India.
  I am applying for this year's Google Summer of Code as a developer for
  Wikimedia. For the past few days, I have been researching about any new
  improvement or extension in funtionality that can be introduced to this
  awesome wiki and finally came up with this idea: WikIcards - small
  information cards.
  I have drafted a project proposal with full description of WikIcards and
  also a sample structure of it at
 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Grv99
 
  I have also filed it as an extension request (Bug 46970) at
  https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46970
 
  I request you to go through this new project and give your suggestions
 and
  feedback. You can give the feedback on the bug report. Alternatively,
 you
  can also add your suggestions at Suggestions section near the end of
 the
  project proposal page. Please comment on its feasibility too.
 
  Hoping for a good response.
 
  Thank you.
 
  Regards,
  Gaurav Chawla
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Re: [Wikitech-l] A new project - Wikicards

2013-04-07 Thread Gaurav Chawla
@paul
Thankyou for suggesting these useful extensions. I will try to integrate
them with WikIcards. They will be really helpful.

@max, Thank you for your feedback.

Please, also read my discussion page. I have tried to explain the
difference between WikIcards and Navigation popups. Here it is -
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Grv99
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Re: [Wikitech-l] A new project - Wikicards

2013-04-07 Thread Max Semenik
On 07.04.2013, 22:56 Gaurav wrote:

 Thanks for the feedback.

 My idea is to initially take the data from the intro of wiki page, but when
 somebody suggests a change, then the suggestions will be put up for voting.
 Most voted suggestion will go onto the card.

Are you familiar with contributing to Wikipedia? There's an edit link,
you change stuff and once you press Save it immediately goes live
(oh well, on wikis with FlaggedRevs your change will need to be
reviewed by an experienced editor for compliance with basic
principles, but still not as complex and exploitable as voting). Why
should changing a minor part about an article be more complex and
bureaucratic that editing the page altogether?


 I really like that idea of putting special tags for syncing. But, won't
 that change the literal structure of the main article?

Once you separate the extract from the article, you will have a
problem of having to update the extract to reflect the latest state of
the article, it it really worth it?


-- 
Best regards,
  Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])


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Re: [Wikitech-l] A new project - Wikicards

2013-04-07 Thread Gaurav Chawla
- I introduced voting to include the users view into the
information/definition that wikIcards will show. That will give a more
accepted defn.

- For this, the cards are editable (suggest+vote) too.
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Re: [Wikitech-l] A new project - Wikicards

2013-04-07 Thread Magnus Manske
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 8:58 PM, Lukas Benedix bene...@zedat.fu-berlin.dewrote:

 I think he should focus on Wikidata. They are going to have all the
 information he needs for his ID cards.

 http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/**Q9696
 http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q9696


And more:
http://toolserver.org/~magnus/ts2/reasonator/?q=Q9696
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