RE: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions?
I haven't used Mikrotik on anything other than a WRAP. Has anyone had great success with Mikrotik in a high speed x86 platform mounted outside at all? Just been testing 2.9.11 running on P4's with dual-polarized antennas and was able to get 150mbps half-duplex and 78mbps full-duplex. Obviously this was in the lab in ideal conditions so next step is to test on a 5-10km link with some kit that can survive in the great outdoors but with enough CPU for it not to be the limiting factor. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: 30 January 2006 23:40 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions? Just bread down and put Dell rack mount servers in place. grin Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 1:57 PM Subject: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions? Like many folks on this list (I'm guessing), I have a lot of PC-type hardware at tower locations. Right now, it's mostly RouterBoard 230s and WRAPs, but those systems just don't have all that much CPU power, and I'd like to try to improve things. When you start seriously tinkering with traffic shaping, firewalling, and especially some of the advanced filtering you can do with Linux these days, 233MHz just doesn't go as far as it used to. There are all kinds of cheap computers out there, so getting something with more CPU power than those boards (both of which are basically Pentium 233s or so) isn't the problem. The problems are size/space, and that pesky weather. Ideally, I'd like something with at least double the raw horsepower (a P-500 or better), not too much larger than a RouterBoard, and that can handle temperatures from -20 to +120 (Fahrenheit, obviously, and those numbers are the highs and lows from the last couple years, with a bit of breathing room). I'm shooting for no moving parts, so a fanless system would be ideal. And while it needs to be small, it also needs to have at least two Ethernet ports, and for bonus points, access to a PCI slot (for adding things like miniPCI card adapters). I'd also like a flying car. :D If it existed, a Soekris 5501 would probably fill the bill, but it's been listed as coming soon since late 2004. There's also a number of low-end VIA EPIA-based boards that, while a bit larger than I'd really prefer, would probably work. (Eje at wisp-router sells a couple systems that look like they'd do the job.) So, does anyone have any recommendations on specific hardware for something like this? Surely someone else out there has run into the same kind of problems. I suspect my size constraint will be the most difficult, but it's also the most flexible. Reliability is obviously my top concern. David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.23/243 - Release Date: 27/01/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 30/01/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] RF Linx amps vs. YDI amps
Anyone used the 5GHz RF-Linx amps? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: 30 January 2006 22:36 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF Linx amps vs. YDI amps I think this is one of those weird things I have a stack of outdoor YDI's that I replaced with outdoor RF-Linx units. The RF-Linx units dropped my noise level by 5 db or better at every tower. This swap was done in the spring of 2004. I still have a few of the YDI's left I ought to put them up for sale The YDI's are all 2001 or so vintage. As they say, your mileage may vary Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: Hello all, Thought I'd share a bit of real world experience with the listers regarding amplifiers. We recently replaced three RF Linx amplifiers (indoor, 2.4Ghz, the non-tunable units) with three used YDI (Breezecom labeled) amplifiers. The difference was significant. Signal strength on customer radios increased by about 3db and the noise floor dropped by another 3 to 5db. Performance on those access points also improved considerably, and several previously marginal connections got a lot better. One sight is even showing -72 signal from a Tranzeo 80-15 at 13 miles. FWIW, these RF Linx amps are an older model (vintage winter 2002). Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.23/243 - Release Date: 27/01/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 30/01/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions?
Here is an example: Here is the list of parts. *BIOSTAR M7VIZ Socket A (Socket 462) VIA KM400 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail * *$46.49* http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813138231 *AMD Sempron 2200+ Thoroughbred 333MHz FSB 256KB L2 Cache Socket A Processor - Retail * *$78.99* http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819104208 *Rosewill 256MB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 333 (PC 2700) System Memory - Retail* *$24.30* http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820223035 *PW-60A 100W 12V DC-DC ATX Converter * *$45.00* http://idotpc.com/TheStore/Peripheral/case/Default_ps_itx.asp?Cate.id=14 *Total Cost (minus DOM) $194.78 After you add miniPCI adapters, it is about the cost of a WAR board, but with a lot more processing power. Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Chadd Thompson wrote: What boards are you getting that are cheaper than a war/routerboard? I have looked for something like that in the past and always found it to be more expensive. I would be interested in something like that for sure. Thanks, Chadd -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 4:52 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions? MiniATX form factor motherboard, with three PCI slots should have enough CPU to do about anything you want, and you can get DC/DC power supplies for them as well. I have a few WRAP boards we were using as backhauls and the CPUs are now maxing out, so I'm going to put these units in. Surprisingly enough, the computers with power supplies are quite a bit cheaper than a WAR or Routerboard. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions?
I havent seen anything that MT wouldn't reliably run on! I'm not saying that it will run on literally anything, but it has ran on everything I have ever came across. Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4227 318.303.4229 Paul Hendry wrote: I haven't used Mikrotik on anything other than a WRAP. Has anyone had great success with Mikrotik in a high speed x86 platform mounted outside at all? Just been testing 2.9.11 running on P4's with dual-polarized antennas and was able to get 150mbps half-duplex and 78mbps full-duplex. Obviously this was in the lab in ideal conditions so next step is to test on a 5-10km link with some kit that can survive in the great outdoors but with enough CPU for it not to be the limiting factor. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: 30 January 2006 23:40 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions? Just bread down and put Dell rack mount servers in place. grin Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 1:57 PM Subject: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions? Like many folks on this list (I'm guessing), I have a lot of PC-type hardware at tower locations. Right now, it's mostly RouterBoard 230s and WRAPs, but those systems just don't have all that much CPU power, and I'd like to try to improve things. When you start seriously tinkering with traffic shaping, firewalling, and especially some of the advanced filtering you can do with Linux these days, 233MHz just doesn't go as far as it used to. There are all kinds of cheap computers out there, so getting something with more CPU power than those boards (both of which are basically Pentium 233s or so) isn't the problem. The problems are size/space, and that pesky weather. Ideally, I'd like something with at least double the raw horsepower (a P-500 or better), not too much larger than a RouterBoard, and that can handle temperatures from -20 to +120 (Fahrenheit, obviously, and those numbers are the highs and lows from the last couple years, with a bit of breathing room). I'm shooting for no moving parts, so a fanless system would be ideal. And while it needs to be small, it also needs to have at least two Ethernet ports, and for bonus points, access to a PCI slot (for adding things like miniPCI card adapters). I'd also like a flying car. :D If it existed, a Soekris 5501 would probably fill the bill, but it's been listed as coming soon since late 2004. There's also a number of low-end VIA EPIA-based boards that, while a bit larger than I'd really prefer, would probably work. (Eje at wisp-router sells a couple systems that look like they'd do the job.) So, does anyone have any recommendations on specific hardware for something like this? Surely someone else out there has run into the same kind of problems. I suspect my size constraint will be the most difficult, but it's also the most flexible. Reliability is obviously my top concern. David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions?
Back when I was originally looking at this (many moons ago) there where issues running it on the Via Mini-ITX boards. Anyone know if these issues where fixed? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: 31 January 2006 14:49 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions? I havent seen anything that MT wouldn't reliably run on! I'm not saying that it will run on literally anything, but it has ran on everything I have ever came across. Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4227 318.303.4229 Paul Hendry wrote: I haven't used Mikrotik on anything other than a WRAP. Has anyone had great success with Mikrotik in a high speed x86 platform mounted outside at all? Just been testing 2.9.11 running on P4's with dual-polarized antennas and was able to get 150mbps half-duplex and 78mbps full-duplex. Obviously this was in the lab in ideal conditions so next step is to test on a 5-10km link with some kit that can survive in the great outdoors but with enough CPU for it not to be the limiting factor. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: 30 January 2006 23:40 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions? Just bread down and put Dell rack mount servers in place. grin Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 1:57 PM Subject: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions? Like many folks on this list (I'm guessing), I have a lot of PC-type hardware at tower locations. Right now, it's mostly RouterBoard 230s and WRAPs, but those systems just don't have all that much CPU power, and I'd like to try to improve things. When you start seriously tinkering with traffic shaping, firewalling, and especially some of the advanced filtering you can do with Linux these days, 233MHz just doesn't go as far as it used to. There are all kinds of cheap computers out there, so getting something with more CPU power than those boards (both of which are basically Pentium 233s or so) isn't the problem. The problems are size/space, and that pesky weather. Ideally, I'd like something with at least double the raw horsepower (a P-500 or better), not too much larger than a RouterBoard, and that can handle temperatures from -20 to +120 (Fahrenheit, obviously, and those numbers are the highs and lows from the last couple years, with a bit of breathing room). I'm shooting for no moving parts, so a fanless system would be ideal. And while it needs to be small, it also needs to have at least two Ethernet ports, and for bonus points, access to a PCI slot (for adding things like miniPCI card adapters). I'd also like a flying car. :D If it existed, a Soekris 5501 would probably fill the bill, but it's been listed as coming soon since late 2004. There's also a number of low-end VIA EPIA-based boards that, while a bit larger than I'd really prefer, would probably work. (Eje at wisp-router sells a couple systems that look like they'd do the job.) So, does anyone have any recommendations on specific hardware for something like this? Surely someone else out there has run into the same kind of problems. I suspect my size constraint will be the most difficult, but it's also the most flexible. Reliability is obviously my top concern. David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 30/01/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 30/01/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] RF Linx amps vs. YDI amps
If your using a tranzeo radio you already are Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 6:10 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] RF Linx amps vs. YDI amps Anyone used the 5GHz RF-Linx amps? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: 30 January 2006 22:36 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF Linx amps vs. YDI amps I think this is one of those weird things I have a stack of outdoor YDI's that I replaced with outdoor RF-Linx units. The RF-Linx units dropped my noise level by 5 db or better at every tower. This swap was done in the spring of 2004. I still have a few of the YDI's left I ought to put them up for sale The YDI's are all 2001 or so vintage. As they say, your mileage may vary Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: Hello all, Thought I'd share a bit of real world experience with the listers regarding amplifiers. We recently replaced three RF Linx amplifiers (indoor, 2.4Ghz, the non-tunable units) with three used YDI (Breezecom labeled) amplifiers. The difference was significant. Signal strength on customer radios increased by about 3db and the noise floor dropped by another 3 to 5db. Performance on those access points also improved considerably, and several previously marginal connections got a lot better. One sight is even showing -72 signal from a Tranzeo 80-15 at 13 miles. FWIW, these RF Linx amps are an older model (vintage winter 2002). Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.23/243 - Release Date: 27/01/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 30/01/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 1/30/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] RF Linx amps vs. YDI amps
Really? The 5GHz amps are about $400 USD so that must make the Tranzeo pretty expensive. Never used em before but are they any good? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: 31 January 2006 18:20 To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] RF Linx amps vs. YDI amps If your using a tranzeo radio you already are Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 6:10 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] RF Linx amps vs. YDI amps Anyone used the 5GHz RF-Linx amps? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: 30 January 2006 22:36 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF Linx amps vs. YDI amps I think this is one of those weird things I have a stack of outdoor YDI's that I replaced with outdoor RF-Linx units. The RF-Linx units dropped my noise level by 5 db or better at every tower. This swap was done in the spring of 2004. I still have a few of the YDI's left I ought to put them up for sale The YDI's are all 2001 or so vintage. As they say, your mileage may vary Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: Hello all, Thought I'd share a bit of real world experience with the listers regarding amplifiers. We recently replaced three RF Linx amplifiers (indoor, 2.4Ghz, the non-tunable units) with three used YDI (Breezecom labeled) amplifiers. The difference was significant. Signal strength on customer radios increased by about 3db and the noise floor dropped by another 3 to 5db. Performance on those access points also improved considerably, and several previously marginal connections got a lot better. One sight is even showing -72 signal from a Tranzeo 80-15 at 13 miles. FWIW, these RF Linx amps are an older model (vintage winter 2002). Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.23/243 - Release Date: 27/01/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 30/01/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 1/30/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 30/01/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 30/01/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] TV band issue.
Hi All, You may be interested in this. http://www.jhsnider.net/telecompolicy/ First article, click on the word here. It's in word format. I think this is something that we need to be working on. WISPA is to some extent, but it's a big issue against powerful opponents and those working on this issue are already time crunched big time. Please be aware, if we can get TV bands or even TV band white spaces opened up we'll have tree and house penetration abilities. AND many homes already have the antennas we need installed This may well be the biggest issue for the wisp industry since unlicensed in the first place. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Legal Radio and Antenna Combos - Arethere anyin existance?
John, You made some good points. However, I don't think the problem is an issue of brand, but more an issue of not creating certain types of problems in network design. In a sale, someone that takes over your network needs to be able to manage it, and more so need to be able to find personelle capable to manage it on an ongoing basis. And for National companies, they need an easy way to keep track of it and maintain it remotely. As long as those problems are solved, it really doesn't matter what brand the equipment is. A company's worth is most commonly, judged by its revenue, profitability, and ability to retain its subscriber base. In Wireless, it is more of an issue, that the technology deployed will have the longevity to allow the buyer to get their ROI, if a high value it to be put on the actualy hardware. In many cases I have argued, that the equipment has little value, as its understood that it would likely be replaced down the road anyway, with the newer technology of the time. Its easy for buyers to say, they want you to have a name brand equipment as a preference. What they don't tell you, is that its more of a priority that you are a profitable cash flow positive company. Financing expensive gear out to the wazoo, for 5 years, definately has a huge impact on a WISP's ability to be profitable and cash flow positive. So what good is it to have a high valuation for your equipment, if you in return get a low valuation of your profitability? In my case, I had a much higher valuation than normal, not using name brand gear, as my infrastructure was all paid for, and all revenue from sales converted directly to profit, apposed to going out the window to leases. I also, had a management platform that solved certain business case problem, that could not be solved without our proprieatary management system. That had a positive value, not a negative value. Its the WISP's responsibility to prove its case of why its network has value over others, the buyer isn't going to do that for you. Advisors for aquisition don't really know how to evaluate WISPs either, they aren't technical, and don't know the issues in the industry that exist. Whats most important is to develop a strong financial picture for your company. That often can't be done paying to much for gear, to early in the growth stages. However, with that said, few buyers are going to want to buy illegal gear or Non-certified gear, jsut from a liability perspective. It takes more effort to justify worth, when not using name brand gear, however that does not make a network based on non-name brand gear, less valueable. If a business case can be proven as a preferred way to do business, that really all that matters. So John, I'd add to your comment, the goal is that WISPs should think about how they are going to position themselve from a value point of view, before making a buying decission on hardware. A few extra dollars upfront, may make a bunch of extra dollars at exit time. There are so many ways to look at it. There were WISPS that boasted higher value because they bought state of the art like VIVATO, but now their networks are worhtless, with the manufacturer discontinuing product, likely in bankrupcy. Or maybe a WISP considered name brand to be the product of choice, only to learn later that Wifi and mobility become the technology of the future, and Name brand fixed technology then would ahve a lower value. Or a product like Trango could be chosen justified as a flexible product to allow the WISP be last man standing. What I've found is that no body wants to buy your gear for the price you paid for it. They can build it cheaper and better today with newer technology. So why go in debt, financing gear? What they want to pay you for, is the revenue you arelikely to receive, and growth rate that you have proven based on existing financials. To buy expensive gear, you need a lot more sales, to make it all work on the balance sheets. And you need a cash flow model for your business, in an industry that is typically under funded. If your non-name brand gear, gives you a cash flow model that works, that may be more valuable for your business's success, growth rate, and the value proposition being sold to the buyer. It also depends on a WISPs posible exit strategies. If the target buyers are Telcos, they probably would be more interested in buying name brand gear networks. Just because cost doesn't tend to be a problem for them, with their ability to finance out long term. But the best way to make money in a sell out, is to spend as little as possible, and get as many customers as possible as quickly as you can. The last thing you want to do is make purcahsing decissions that could inhibit that goal. The bottom line is a buyer would choose to buy your revenue any day of the week over your gear. The cost to procure customers, and time to market to take them on, is
Re: [WISPA] Legal Radio and Antenna Combos - Are there anyin existance?
Excellent Advice, John. -Original Message-From: John Scrivner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 01:00 AMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal Radio and Antenna Combos - Are there anyin existance?I can tell you from past experience it is a good idea to find a good brand and use it. One of the things I learned at the WCA show a couple of weeks ago was that if you want to have a business worth selling later you had better consider using one high-quality well-known platform instead of a hodge-podge of radio solutions. Alvarion is definitely one of those "good" brands. There are others but I am betting that many out there would choose to go with Alvarion from the start if they had it all to do over again. With that said I will not discount the value I have seen in others out there like Trango, Tranzeo, Waverider, Mikrotik, Star-OS, etc. The trouble is though that it is rare to find one brand with one management interface (All FCC System Certified as well) for all the different platforms you will need as a WISP. With Alvarion (and few if any others) you can literally build your entire network on one trusted platform. I went to an Alvarion sponsored conference on WiMAX triple play offerings in Washington D.C last week. that was very informative but was NOT the reason I said what I did about Alvarion. There was a company who specialized in WISP acquisitions at the WCA show that described the most important factors in determining the value of a company. One of the negatives about WISP operations was generally the frequent use of a "hodge-podge" of different incompatible platforms of radios. They stated this was a very big problem for WISP valuations. They said that using one good brand of radios was a good way to make your system worth its highest value. Just some food for thought here guys. Especially anyone who might have funding but is new to running a WISP. Rolling your own solution is not always the best way to go and can actually hurt your efforts in many cases. Find a good brand and stick to it.ScrivKurt Fankhauser wrote:The more you think about it the more you are going to find reasons notto do it, what you have to do is just jump in and do it. Once you do youwill know what you want to do. Its like sky diving, you have to justjump into it, if you stand up there and question it you will just freezeup and not go anywhere.Kurt FankhauserWAVELINC114 S. Walnut St.Bucyrus, OH 44820419-562-6405www.wavelinc.com-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] OnBehalf Of Jason WallaceSent: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:45 AMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Legal Radio and Antenna Combos - Are there anyinexistance?Marlon, What would you suggest? I am afraid of proprietary stuff because I don't know enough industry history to understand the players. JasonMarlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hiya Jason,Why not just buy ISP grade product? Then you don't have to worry about all of this.AND at 2.4 the CLIENT side isn't limited to 36 dB. It starts there with a 30 dB radio with a 6 dB antenna. For every one db of radio tx dB you drop you can go up 3 dB of antenna gain.Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam- Original Message - From: "Jason" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.orgSent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:26 PMSubject: [WISPA] Legal Radio and Antenna Combos - Are there any in existance? Everyone, I am at my wits end. I have searched high and low for a mini-pci radio sector antenna combo for an 802.11b AP that are legal under the current FCC rules, which by my interpretation are:1. Total output is 36 dbm or less.2. Antenna characteristics must be the same as an antenna that has been approved for use with that radio, where TYPE refers to antennas with SIMILAR in and out of band radiation patterns.3. Antenna gain must be equal to or less than the maximum the radio has been approved to work with.I can NOT find a radio that is approved for any antenna with real gain. I don't want to mind just the SPIRIT of the law, but the law itself.What combos are you other guys who like building your own system. I want to put together a Mikrotik with 3 radios and sectors for an AP. The sectors I am looking at are:Antenna Gain Width PolWRW2400-VF/A/H 13dbi 120 H http://www.winncom.com/moreinfo/item/WRW2400-VF/A/H/index.htmlDT-AN-24-120H-135 13.5 120 H https://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-120H-135.html DT-AN-24-60120V-1521 15 120 V https://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-AS-60120V-2115.html HyperGainR HG2417P-120 17dbi 120 Vhttp://www.hyperlinktech.com/index.phpTeletronics 19 120 Hhttp://www.teletronics.com/antenna2-419dBSector.htmlTeletronics 22 140 Hhttp://www.teletronics.com/antenna2-422dBidirectional.htmlI am sorry
Re: [WISPA] TV band issue.
AND many homes already have the antennas we need installed Don't forget, TV was a broadcast technology, withthe antenna's puirpose to receive only. Not sure I'd want to use those existing TV antenna, for transmitting. Talk about creating noise in the spectrum. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org; isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:02 AM Subject: [WISPA] TV band issue. Hi All, You may be interested in this. http://www.jhsnider.net/telecompolicy/ First article, click on the word here. It's in word format. I think this is something that we need to be working on. WISPA is to some extent, but it's a big issue against powerful opponents and those working on this issue are already time crunched big time. Please be aware, if we can get TV bands or even TV band white spaces opened up we'll have tree and house penetration abilities. AND many homes already have the antennas we need installed This may well be the biggest issue for the wisp industry since unlicensed in the first place. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] TV band issue.
How wide is the band, you think we can squeeze 10mbps on it? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 8:03 AM To: FCC Discussion Cc: wireless@wispa.org; isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com Subject: [WISPA] TV band issue. Hi All, You may be interested in this. http://www.jhsnider.net/telecompolicy/ First article, click on the word here. It's in word format. I think this is something that we need to be working on. WISPA is to some extent, but it's a big issue against powerful opponents and those working on this issue are already time crunched big time. Please be aware, if we can get TV bands or even TV band white spaces opened up we'll have tree and house penetration abilities. AND many homes already have the antennas we need installed This may well be the biggest issue for the wisp industry since unlicensed in the first place. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 1/30/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] RF Linx amps vs. YDI amps
Yes you are correct, the tranzeo 5ghz products with AMP in the model name will run you close to $1000 US. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:57 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] RF Linx amps vs. YDI amps Really? The 5GHz amps are about $400 USD so that must make the Tranzeo pretty expensive. Never used em before but are they any good? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: 31 January 2006 18:20 To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] RF Linx amps vs. YDI amps If your using a tranzeo radio you already are Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 6:10 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] RF Linx amps vs. YDI amps Anyone used the 5GHz RF-Linx amps? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: 30 January 2006 22:36 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF Linx amps vs. YDI amps I think this is one of those weird things I have a stack of outdoor YDI's that I replaced with outdoor RF-Linx units. The RF-Linx units dropped my noise level by 5 db or better at every tower. This swap was done in the spring of 2004. I still have a few of the YDI's left I ought to put them up for sale The YDI's are all 2001 or so vintage. As they say, your mileage may vary Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: Hello all, Thought I'd share a bit of real world experience with the listers regarding amplifiers. We recently replaced three RF Linx amplifiers (indoor, 2.4Ghz, the non-tunable units) with three used YDI (Breezecom labeled) amplifiers. The difference was significant. Signal strength on customer radios increased by about 3db and the noise floor dropped by another 3 to 5db. Performance on those access points also improved considerably, and several previously marginal connections got a lot better. One sight is even showing -72 signal from a Tranzeo 80-15 at 13 miles. FWIW, these RF Linx amps are an older model (vintage winter 2002). Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.23/243 - Release Date: 27/01/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 30/01/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 1/30/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 30/01/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 30/01/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 1/30/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions?
Thats a great post Larsen - Thanks Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4227 318.303.4229 Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: Here is an example: Here is the list of parts. *BIOSTAR M7VIZ Socket A (Socket 462) VIA KM400 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail * *$46.49* http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813138231 *AMD Sempron 2200+ Thoroughbred 333MHz FSB 256KB L2 Cache Socket A Processor - Retail * *$78.99* http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819104208 *Rosewill 256MB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 333 (PC 2700) System Memory - Retail* *$24.30* http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820223035 *PW-60A 100W 12V DC-DC ATX Converter * *$45.00* http://idotpc.com/TheStore/Peripheral/case/Default_ps_itx.asp?Cate.id=14 *Total Cost (minus DOM) $194.78 After you add miniPCI adapters, it is about the cost of a WAR board, but with a lot more processing power. Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Chadd Thompson wrote: What boards are you getting that are cheaper than a war/routerboard? I have looked for something like that in the past and always found it to be more expensive. I would be interested in something like that for sure. Thanks, Chadd -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 4:52 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions? MiniATX form factor motherboard, with three PCI slots should have enough CPU to do about anything you want, and you can get DC/DC power supplies for them as well. I have a few WRAP boards we were using as backhauls and the CPUs are now maxing out, so I'm going to put these units in. Surprisingly enough, the computers with power supplies are quite a bit cheaper than a WAR or Routerboard. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions?
Matt, Thanks for the information. Have you used this sort of setup in an outdoor environment? If so did you have to control the temp for it to work ok? Thanks, Chadd -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 8:46 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions? Here is an example: Here is the list of parts. *BIOSTAR M7VIZ Socket A (Socket 462) VIA KM400 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail * *$46.49* http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813138231 *AMD Sempron 2200+ Thoroughbred 333MHz FSB 256KB L2 Cache Socket A Processor - Retail * *$78.99* http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819104208 *Rosewill 256MB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 333 (PC 2700) System Memory - Retail* *$24.30* http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820223035 *PW-60A 100W 12V DC-DC ATX Converter * *$45.00* http://idotpc.com/TheStore/Peripheral/case/Default_ps_itx.asp?Cate.id=14 *Total Cost (minus DOM) $194.78 After you add miniPCI adapters, it is about the cost of a WAR board, but with a lot more processing power. Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TV band issue.
John, I was not aware that most television antennas were directional Yagis. I thought they picked up from every which direction. Now that you mention it, that makes since based on their shape. :-) Thanks for the info. Would we need to be concerned about the amount of loss over the existing TV Coax cable (RG6?), or beable to re-use it? I'm assuming it would be beneficial to be recabled with low loss LMR? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV band issue. There is no physics to back up that using a directed television yagi antenna would be a bad thing. With that said I do not think using existing TV antennas would be very practical. The 75 ohm impedance for a 50 ohm radio is a problem. This would require a 50 to 75 ohm balun connector at the radio to make it work. Existing television yagi antennas will easily transmit as well as receive within the television band without any noise problems. If you ever used an old television tower rotor you know the antennas are fairly directive in nature. I would likely always install my own antenna unless the customer just happened to have a great outdoor setup in place. I would not like to have customers complaining that they lost their Internet when someone in the house turned the rotor. :-) Scriv Tom DeReggi wrote: AND many homes already have the antennas we need installed Don't forget, TV was a broadcast technology, withthe antenna's puirpose to receive only. Not sure I'd want to use those existing TV antenna, for transmitting. Talk about creating noise in the spectrum. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org; isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:02 AM Subject: [WISPA] TV band issue. Hi All, You may be interested in this. http://www.jhsnider.net/telecompolicy/ First article, click on the word here. It's in word format. I think this is something that we need to be working on. WISPA is to some extent, but it's a big issue against powerful opponents and those working on this issue are already time crunched big time. Please be aware, if we can get TV bands or even TV band white spaces opened up we'll have tree and house penetration abilities. AND many homes already have the antennas we need installed This may well be the biggest issue for the wisp industry since unlicensed in the first place. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Re: My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions?
marlon... you just made me hungry :) bob 2611 s highway 101 san diego, ca 92007 209 984 0880 http://evdo-coverage.com/cell-phone-antenna-booster.html On 1/30/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just bread down and put Dell rack mount servers in place. grin Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 1:57 PM Subject: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions? Like many folks on this list (I'm guessing), I have a lot of PC-type hardware at tower locations. Right now, it's mostly RouterBoard 230s and WRAPs, but those systems just don't have all that much CPU power, and I'd like to try to improve things. When you start seriously tinkering with traffic shaping, firewalling, and especially some of the advanced filtering you can do with Linux these days, 233MHz just doesn't go as far as it used to. There are all kinds of cheap computers out there, so getting something with more CPU power than those boards (both of which are basically Pentium 233s or so) isn't the problem. The problems are size/space, and that pesky weather. Ideally, I'd like something with at least double the raw horsepower (a P-500 or better), not too much larger than a RouterBoard, and that can handle temperatures from -20 to +120 (Fahrenheit, obviously, and those numbers are the highs and lows from the last couple years, with a bit of breathing room). I'm shooting for no moving parts, so a fanless system would be ideal. And while it needs to be small, it also needs to have at least two Ethernet ports, and for bonus points, access to a PCI slot (for adding things like miniPCI card adapters). I'd also like a flying car. :D If it existed, a Soekris 5501 would probably fill the bill, but it's been listed as coming soon since late 2004. There's also a number of low-end VIA EPIA-based boards that, while a bit larger than I'd really prefer, would probably work. (Eje at wisp-router sells a couple systems that look like they'd do the job.) So, does anyone have any recommendations on specific hardware for something like this? Surely someone else out there has run into the same kind of problems. I suspect my size constraint will be the most difficult, but it's also the most flexible. Reliability is obviously my top concern. David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Robert Q Kim, Wireless Internet Advisor http://evdo-coverage.com/cellular-repeater.html http://hsdpa-coverage.com 2611 S. Pacific Coast Highway 101 Suite 102 Cardiff by the Sea, CA 92007 206 984 0880 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Pigtail source?
Hi folks I need some recommendations for some custom UFL to N male piggy's. Thanks George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] TV band issue.
A TV channel is 6 MHz wide if that helps. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 3:13 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] TV band issue. How wide is the band, you think we can squeeze 10mbps on it? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] TV band issue.
They are log-periodic antennas, not tuned for any particular frequency. They cover 50-900 Mhz (approximately). TV channel 16, for example is approximately 475 MHz (or so). The 850 Mhz cellular spectrum is what became of the TV channels above 69. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 1:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV band issue. John, I was not aware that most television antennas were directional Yagis. I thought they picked up from every which direction. Now that you mention it, that makes since based on their shape. :-) Thanks for the info. Would we need to be concerned about the amount of loss over the existing TV Coax cable (RG6?), or beable to re-use it? I'm assuming it would be beneficial to be recabled with low loss LMR? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Pigtail source?
Roger Peters piggys have the best performance as far as I am concerned. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 10:07 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Pigtail source? Hi folks I need some recommendations for some custom UFL to N male piggy's. Thanks George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 1/30/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Pigtail source?
Thanks guys, Roger does have good piggys. But I'm looking for the piggy maker for custom work rather than a reseller. Thanks George Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Roger Peters piggys have the best performance as far as I am concerned. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 10:07 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Pigtail source? Hi folks I need some recommendations for some custom UFL to N male piggy's. Thanks George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Anyone know Verilan?
they tried to sue us :)-JeffOn Jan 23, 2006, at 11:35 AM, Mark Koskenmaki wrote: http://www.verilan.com/ I was hoping to have a closer additional source for things (I always try to have more than one) and these people have some stuff I use listed for sale at decent prices. But, over the course of about 3 days, and approximately 30 phone calls to thier number, I never managed to reach a live person. I tried accounting, tech support, sales, etc. I lost track of the number of times I called, but I called everywhere between morning, after 5, mid-day, etc. I realize this isn't saying much positive about them, I was just wondering if anyone else had heard of them or done business with them. Thanks North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot netsales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot netFast Internet, NO WIRES!--- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Anyone know Verilan?
Oh shit. I just realized that both Primaverity and Verilan contain the element veri. Maybe they'll sue me, too! They own the Local Area Network of Truth!.. But I've got got the Original claim to Truth. On 1/31/06, Jeffrey Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: they tried to sue us :)-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Anyone know Verilan?
Proceed cautiously here. chris Anyone touch Cisco's mesh gear? Or Tropos' or Skypilot's? Any fans of mesh (Sascha aside) at all? All I hear is StarOS, Mikrotik, and Tranzeo in the WiFi space. Earthlink is doing the Philly project with Tropos and Canopy 5.8 PtMP for backhaul. How much is a Tropos 5210? Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Anyone know Verilan?
It was over some tower and access rights issues regarding spectrum. They signed some quasi exclusive rights agreement with a tower company, which didnt hold up so they dropped the suit.-JeffOn Jan 31, 2006, at 12:14 PM, Dylan Oliver wrote:Oh shit. I just realized that both "Primaverity" and "Verilan" contain the element "veri". Maybe they'll sue me, too! They own the Local Area Network of Truth!.. But I've got got the Original claim to Truth. On 1/31/06, Jeffrey Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: they tried to sue us :)-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC-- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TV band issue.
To demure, aren't off-air TV antennas a combination of yagi and log-periodic, forming a broadband multi-element device. A hybrid of sorts??-Original Message-From: John Scrivner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:55 AMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV band issue.There is no physics to back up that using a directed television yagi antenna would be a bad thing. With that said I do not think using existing TV antennas would be very practical. The 75 ohm impedance for a 50 ohm radio is a problem. This would require a 50 to 75 ohm balun connector at the radio to make it work. Existing television yagi antennas will easily transmit as well as receive within the television band without any noise problems. If you ever used an old television tower rotor you know the antennas are fairly directive in nature. I would likely always install my own antenna unless the customer just happened to have a great outdoor setup in place. I would not like to have customers complaining that they lost their Internet when someone in the house turned the rotor.:-)ScrivTom DeReggi wrote: AND many homes already have the antennas we need installed Don't forget, TV was a broadcast technology, withthe antenna's puirpose to receive only. Not sure I'd want to use those existing TV antenna, for transmitting. Talk about creating noise in the spectrum. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "FCC Discussion" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org; isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:02 AM Subject: [WISPA] TV band issue. Hi All, You may be interested in this. http://www.jhsnider.net/telecompolicy/ First article, click on the word "here". It's in word format. I think this is something that we need to be working on. WISPA is to some extent, but it's a big issue against powerful opponents and those working on this issue are already time crunched big time. Please be aware, if we can get TV bands or even TV band white spaces opened up we'll have tree and house penetration abilities. AND many homes already have the antennas we need installed This may well be the biggest issue for the wisp industry since unlicensed in the first place. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TV band issue.
I always considered the log periodic to be a type of yagi. I guess my naming could be wrong but the fact is that log periodics do act as directional broadband antennas. They could be made to work as data radio antennas for inband television band data radios. As I stated earlier there are other factors that could make this not such a good option. Obviously the use of a rotor is not going to work well for a point source Internet connection. You do not want Mom turning the rotor for Days of Our Lives when Dad is trying to Google search for Home Beer Making Kits. Also the impedance of a log periodic antenna is either 300 ohms or 75 ohms depending on the design. Most are 300 ohm. The transmission lines used to carry television signals are generally rated at either 300 or 75 ohms. The radios would presumably be 50 ohms. This means that some impedance matching device would be required to mate an existing television antenna system to a data radio. This is not a huge issue but it does show that this is not just a plug and play deal. There are some issues to address when considering using an off-air television antenna in our hopeful future systems where we get to use unused television channel space. I would suggest we move along to bigger issues now like how to get the channels to begin with. We have a big hurdle to cross there. I doubt we see a federal government move to give us this space as unlicensed. I do not think it will happen now. I would also like to see a license system for this spectrum as long as it did not discriminate against the smaller operators. Uncle Sam thinks we should sell off all of our public assets to the highest bidder in massive geographic chunks so no small interests have a chance at buying into this opportunity. It is beyond all reason to me that something as finite and scarce as spectrum should be sold outright when there will eventually be none left unless you hold a license. This is the largest fleecing of America I have ever seen. It makes the Savings and Loan bailout look like a lost receipt for lunch at tax time. Spectrum is just like land. We should have free market access to spectrum for everyone just like our ability to buy land. Uncle Sam wants to sell off half of your home state at a time to anyone with enough cash. Heaven forbid that the other people who might have a use for it in that area cannot once it is gone. This is just plain wrong. It is such a waste and so backward. What is really frightening to me is that even educated people who ought to know better just cannot understand what is at stake here. The economic future of this country rides on our ability to maintain a leadership role in Internet and data communications. Wireless communications are a big part of this world-wide Internet revolution and we are being held at bay by the interests of the NAB and other fat cats who want nothing more than to aid the failing landline ILECs and broadcasters who now use off-air television channels as nothing other than a registration system for who gets to be on which cable system. Off-air television is barely used by anyone. The idea that the NAB has some birthright to this spectrum is starting to seriously grate on my nerves. They need to step back and look at what is being left unused here. It is outrageous how this is being handled. The wool has been completely pulled over the eyes of America. Scriv Ron Wallace wrote: To demure, aren't off-air TV antennas a combination of yagi and log-periodic, forming a broadband multi-element device. A hybrid of sorts?? -Original Message- From: John Scrivner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:55 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV band issue. There is no physics to back up that using a directed television yagi antenna would be a bad thing. With that said I do not think using existing TV antennas would be very practical. The 75 ohm impedance for a 50 ohm radio is a problem. This would require a 50 to 75 ohm balun connector at the radio to make it work. Existing television yagi antennas will easily transmit as well as receive within the television band without any noise problems. If you ever used an old television tower rotor you know the antennas are fairly directive in nature. I would likely always install my own antenna unless the customer just happened to have a great outdoor setup in place. I would not like to have customers complaining that they lost their Internet when someone in the house turned the rotor. :-) Scriv Tom DeReggi wrote: AND many homes already have the antennas we need installed Don't forget, TV was a broadcast technology, withthe antenna's puirpose to receive only. Not sure I'd want to use those existing TV antenna, for transmitting. Talk about creating noise in the spectrum. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From:
RE: [WISPA] TV band issue.
The yagi looking thing is for channels above 12 (UHV) and the thing with the elements is for channels 2-12 (VHF) Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wallace Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 3:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV band issue. To demure, aren't off-air TV antennas a combination of yagi and log-periodic, forming a broadband multi-element device. A hybrid of sorts?? -Original Message- From: John Scrivner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:55 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV band issue. There is no physics to back up that using a directed television yagi antenna would be a bad thing. With that said I do not think using existing TV antennas would be very practical. The 75 ohm impedance for a 50 ohm radio is a problem. This would require a 50 to 75 ohm balun connector at the radio to make it work. Existing television yagi antennas will easily transmit as well as receive within the television band without any noise problems. If you ever used an old television tower rotor you know the antennas are fairly directive in nature. I would likely always install my own antenna unless the customer just happened to have a great outdoor setup in place. I would not like to have customers complaining that they lost their Internet when someone in the house turned the rotor. :-) Scriv Tom DeReggi wrote: AND many homes already have the antennas we need installed Don't forget, TV was a broadcast technology, withthe antenna's puirpose to receive only. Not sure I'd want to use those existing TV antenna, for transmitting. Talk about creating noise in the spectrum. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org; isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:02 AM Subject: [WISPA] TV band issue. Hi All, You may be interested in this. http://www.jhsnider.net/telecompolicy/ First article, click on the word here. It's in word format. I think this is something that we need to be working on. WISPA is to some extent, but it's a big issue against powerful opponents and those working on this issue are already time crunched big time. Please be aware, if we can get TV bands or even TV band white spaces opened up we'll have tree and house penetration abilities. AND many homes already have the antennas we need installed This may well be the biggest issue for the wisp industry since unlicensed in the first place. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Re: Pigtail source?
try rfindustries light horse technologies. bob -- Robert Kim 2611s Highway 101 suite 102 San diego CA 92007 206 984 0880 http://evdo-coverage.com/cellular-repeater.html On 1/31/06, Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim Patient does get his pigtails from Roger, I believe. It is also my experience that the ones he sells are excellent in all aspects. Good connectors and work excellent at 5.8ghz, with little apparent loss. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: Jenco Wireless To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pigtail source? I believe he is correct. Here is a link: http://jeffcosoho.com. I hope this is Roger Peters, but from this link I get MMCX piggies that are 3-4 dB better than any others I have tried. I also like their Ufl piggies. They are not 3dB better, but they really snap on tight and stay put. Brad Hagstrom (Jenco Wireless) On 1/31/06, Kurt Fankhauser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Roger Peters piggys have the best performance as far as I am concerned. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 10:07 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Pigtail source? Hi folks I need some recommendations for some custom UFL to N male piggy's. Thanks George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 1/30/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Robert Q Kim, Wireless Internet Advisor http://evdo-coverage.com/cellular-repeater.html http://hsdpa-coverage.com 2611 S. Pacific Coast Highway 101 Suite 102 Cardiff by the Sea, CA 92007 206 984 0880 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
