[WISPA] Net to Industry - So Many Questions
Hello, My group is new to the industry. We are in the planning stages of a point to multipoint network in rural Ohio. I've been scouring the web for statistics on wireless networks in terms of penetration, growth rates and projections, etc. The info is very limited, to say the least. Is there any place we can look to find more of this info, so that we can approach potential investors. Also, what should we be paying for backhaul? I've seen reports that say it should cost us $10/Mb. Is that synchronous? Our backhaul provider is planning on charging us roughly 60x this - synchronous. How can we know if we are getting a good rate? This is a hilly area - foothills of Appalachia. How can we know what is the best equipment or system to go with. We have so many questions, yet it seems so few places to get answers. It appears that this is a profitable industry - one we want to get into. However, we are just not sure at this point. If any of you are operating systems in rural, hilly areas, we'd love to talk with you. Sorry for the all over the board post, but we're under the gun to get going and we just have so many questions. Kind Regards, Dave -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet
Why is it, then, that there aren't more radio\TV station outages due to lightning? They have to have done something to reduce their chances of a direct hit on those 1200' towers. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet Nothing stops direct hits. A spark that traveled through miles of air isn't really going to care what else is between it and the ground. Good ground is the lifesaver for nearby hits that induce wild voltages. And following the code is always best for the health and safety of the people. Jonathan Schmidt wrote: This has been my experience, Scott. I have seen lightening enter an enclosed device and simply burn a hole right in the middle of a circuit board with nothing else damaged. On my desktop PC, lightening apparently came in through the cable, through the cable modem (destroyed) and down the Ethernet, through the Linksys (OK) to the PC and the only other damage was the motherboard Ethernet. I replaced the modem and bought a PCI Ethernet card and it's fine. What paths lightening took in this incident or the above incident is anyone's guess. There is still controversy over the value of diverting or directing lightening and/or lightening leaders and streamers to protect against a direct hit. It's really fascinating and here's a fun place to start you thinking: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_rod Nevertheless, good enclosures fed with metal conduit that's well grounded appear to do well but the local ordinances need to be heeded. . . . j o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 5:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet If properly grounded, the opposite is true. The ground wire should direct the lightning to ground (hence the name) and away from your equipment. Not to mention that in the case of an equipment failure that causes the power supply to put 120VAC on the case, etc., the ground wire directs the current to ground, not you. It is always about safety. I would much rather have dead equipment than dead personnel because an electrical system was not properly grounded. Dennis Burgess wrote: YOU DO NOT WANT TO RUN A GROUND WIRE! The reason for that, is that then it gives lightning etc the ability to go though your equipment vs the tower ground! B On 5/22/07, Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, Check your local code before you copy this. No ground is not allowed here, unless somehow you can prove it is a temporary extension cord. Neither is low voltage in same conduit at 120VAC. That said, small changes to Dennis' configuration will make good installation. Run the cat5 in a separate (metallic) pipe (rigid, EMT, Sealtite, whatever you like). Ground the bottom of the pipe. I would leave the top ungrounded, but that is: 1) personal preference (eliminates ground loops). 2) determined by which way gives you the best performance, least interference from the FM. You may want to use cat5e or cat6 as the twist is tighter, thus accepting less interference as well. Run a ground wire with the power. Even for the low current required at the top, I would probably run 14AWG or 12AWG. Lowers the inductance, may allow less noise to be induced on the power leads. Besides, 14AWG is the smallest wire you can run with a 15amp breaker. Same thing with ground loops; I would probably use a plastic box and thus isolate the power ground from the enclosure, tower, etc. One good way to do it is consult a local commercial/industrial electrician. They will know the code for your area. But they don't always understand radio and induced voltages. Dennis Burgess wrote: We are located at 400 foot on a FM tower, 100,000 watts at the top of 1400 foot. The total length of CAT 5 is 440 foot or so, and plug directly into a RB532 at the top of the tower (power at the top as well) We ran a felexable conduit up the tower, inside, 16awg solid copper, one black, one white, (for the 110), NO GROUND, and also in that same conduit, we ran good outdoor, sheilded CAT5, UV Resistant (even though it is fully enclosed), and we get a 100meg link without issues for the most part! One thing we did do, is ensure that we were on the other side of all the transmission lines running up the tower. Dennis On 5/22/07, Andrew Niemantsverdriet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am co located on a tower with an FM transmitter. The FM station runs at 105Mhz. We were running one AP at 10 half duplex to overcome the havoc that the FM station created on our ethernet feed. We now need to run that link at 100 full duplex to be able to handle the traffic coming through it. What are
Re: [WISPA] consumer credit checking solutions
That guy was just gaming you. Probably why the other wisp wouldn't turn him on. We charge first month and last month to turn on and a 30 day written notice to disconnect. We also do not give any refunds on prepaid service and the customer actually signs on the dotted line acknowledging this. We also charge 175.00 in up front set up and activation fees to force the sub to make an investment. Too many people from the dial days have tried to beat the system. George Mark Nash wrote: Have to vent on this one, although I'm taking it a little off topic. Guy calls me up saying that another wireless company couldn't connect him and he actually bad-mouthed that company to me on the sales call because that company couldn't get to him for a week. He wants me to waive my $199 installation fee because the other company did. I say no, but we have a '30-day satisfaction policy' that will give him his money back if he didn't like the service. So we install service within a couple days and get him up and running. Well he calls up after 4 days of service and my tech talks with him. He has moved and doesn't want our service. No big deal...it happens... EXCEPT... The dude knew about it about a half hour BEFORE my installer got there to do the wireless installation (as he told my tech). And he said 'Mark said that I could get my money back'. Well, I'm not going to give him his money back due to the way he treated the resources of my business. He knew that he was not going to take our service and expected something for nothing. He did not disconnect due to dissatisfaction, and as far as I'm concerned he's just going to have to learn a lesson here on basic human treatment. In 6 years, I've never had anything like this. Blech Mark Nash UnwiredOnline 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 9:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] consumer credit checking solutions heya Rick. Where ya been? We just don't let people get more than a month or two into us. Then we shut them off. Haven't had much of a problem. Why do you want to check on people? marlon - Original Message - From: Rick Kunze [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 10:23 AM Subject: [WISPA] consumer credit checking solutions Anyone out there using any credit checking solutions to check the credit worthiness of new sign-ups? Consumer credit checking or the like? Recommendations? Rk -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] consumer credit checking solutions
Dylan Oliver wrote: Hah - perhaps WISPA could offer its members a blacklist service. Ops could check the blacklist right before the credit check. That guy has to move somewhere, and the local operators should be warned! I dunno the relevant laws, but could you even do this? Tracking by just names is useless, so you'd need some relatively unique identifier (driver's license number, SSN, something like that). If you even get that information from your customer in the first place (I do, but maybe you don't), you'd then have to pass that information along to a third party. Whatever contract you have your customer sign would then have to include language to that effect. Then someone would have to run that central registry, comply with about a hojillion privacy laws, and so on. I imagine WISPA's budget is a few hundred million dollars short of that required to do it right. Fortunately, there are already companies that will take your notes about whether a given customer has, in the past, defaulted on financial obligations. They're called credit bureaus. :D There's two ways to play this one out, I think. The first choice is to do a credit check, and based on the customer's history with other lenders and service providers, choose whether to install them in the first place. Pro: the folks that pass your check are very likely to pay their bills on time. Con: You're arbitrarily shutting out a lot of potential customers. The second is to get most or all of the money up-front, and bill in advance for your service. If a customer doesn't pay, you call them, then shut them off. You're probably only out your cost to provide service to one customer for a few days. (Unless they move and steal your equipment, which is rare but has happened.) Pro: More revenue, as you install basically everyone you can. Con: Higher costs (more installs, then picking up equipment from folks who default). Overall probably a bit riskier. There's a couple subtle shades on both of those, but you're taking risks either way. David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet
Then why don't WISPs deploy a proper grounding system? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Michael Erskine (804) 436-9428 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:24 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet Mike Hammett wrote: Why is it, then, that there aren't more radio\TV station outages due to lightning? They have to have done something to reduce their chances of a direct hit on those 1200' towers. A good grounding system that bypasses the communications systems. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet Nothing stops direct hits. A spark that traveled through miles of air isn't really going to care what else is between it and the ground. Good ground is the lifesaver for nearby hits that induce wild voltages. And following the code is always best for the health and safety of the people. Jonathan Schmidt wrote: This has been my experience, Scott. I have seen lightening enter an enclosed device and simply burn a hole right in the middle of a circuit board with nothing else damaged. On my desktop PC, lightening apparently came in through the cable, through the cable modem (destroyed) and down the Ethernet, through the Linksys (OK) to the PC and the only other damage was the motherboard Ethernet. I replaced the modem and bought a PCI Ethernet card and it's fine. What paths lightening took in this incident or the above incident is anyone's guess. There is still controversy over the value of diverting or directing lightening and/or lightening leaders and streamers to protect against a direct hit. It's really fascinating and here's a fun place to start you thinking: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_rod Nevertheless, good enclosures fed with metal conduit that's well grounded appear to do well but the local ordinances need to be heeded. . . . j o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 5:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet If properly grounded, the opposite is true. The ground wire should direct the lightning to ground (hence the name) and away from your equipment. Not to mention that in the case of an equipment failure that causes the power supply to put 120VAC on the case, etc., the ground wire directs the current to ground, not you. It is always about safety. I would much rather have dead equipment than dead personnel because an electrical system was not properly grounded. Dennis Burgess wrote: YOU DO NOT WANT TO RUN A GROUND WIRE! The reason for that, is that then it gives lightning etc the ability to go though your equipment vs the tower ground! B On 5/22/07, Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, Check your local code before you copy this. No ground is not allowed here, unless somehow you can prove it is a temporary extension cord. Neither is low voltage in same conduit at 120VAC. That said, small changes to Dennis' configuration will make good installation. Run the cat5 in a separate (metallic) pipe (rigid, EMT, Sealtite, whatever you like). Ground the bottom of the pipe. I would leave the top ungrounded, but that is: 1) personal preference (eliminates ground loops). 2) determined by which way gives you the best performance, least interference from the FM. You may want to use cat5e or cat6 as the twist is tighter, thus accepting less interference as well. Run a ground wire with the power. Even for the low current required at the top, I would probably run 14AWG or 12AWG. Lowers the inductance, may allow less noise to be induced on the power leads. Besides, 14AWG is the smallest wire you can run with a 15amp breaker. Same thing with ground loops; I would probably use a plastic box and thus isolate the power ground from the enclosure, tower, etc. One good way to do it is consult a local commercial/industrial electrician. They will know the code for your area. But they don't always understand radio and induced voltages. Dennis Burgess wrote: We are located at 400 foot on a FM tower, 100,000 watts at the top of 1400 foot. The total length of CAT 5 is 440 foot or so, and plug directly into a RB532 at the top of the tower (power at the top as well) We ran a felexable conduit up the tower, inside, 16awg solid copper, one black, one white, (for the 110), NO GROUND, and also in that same conduit, we ran good outdoor, sheilded CAT5, UV Resistant (even though it is fully enclosed), and we get a 100meg link without issues for the most part! One thing we did do, is ensure that we were on the other
Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet
Mike Hammett wrote: Then why don't WISPs deploy a proper grounding system? Hmmm, Ok, I should have read the entire thread. Any WISP who does not deploy a proper grounding system is asking for it. We ground to copper halos that are attached to three eight foot copper clad rods. There are grounded surge supressors between each antenna and each radio and there are grounded surge supressors on each PoE line between the radio and the switch. The switch is grounded. So I can't say why someone else does not deploy a proper ground but I can say that we have not lost a radio in two years. I hasten to add that is not braggin' and please don't get me God, I didn't mean it to sound like anything but thanks. -m- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Michael Erskine (804) 436-9428 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:24 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet Mike Hammett wrote: Why is it, then, that there aren't more radio\TV station outages due to lightning? They have to have done something to reduce their chances of a direct hit on those 1200' towers. A good grounding system that bypasses the communications systems. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet Nothing stops direct hits. A spark that traveled through miles of air isn't really going to care what else is between it and the ground. Good ground is the lifesaver for nearby hits that induce wild voltages. And following the code is always best for the health and safety of the people. Jonathan Schmidt wrote: This has been my experience, Scott. I have seen lightening enter an enclosed device and simply burn a hole right in the middle of a circuit board with nothing else damaged. On my desktop PC, lightening apparently came in through the cable, through the cable modem (destroyed) and down the Ethernet, through the Linksys (OK) to the PC and the only other damage was the motherboard Ethernet. I replaced the modem and bought a PCI Ethernet card and it's fine. What paths lightening took in this incident or the above incident is anyone's guess. There is still controversy over the value of diverting or directing lightening and/or lightening leaders and streamers to protect against a direct hit. It's really fascinating and here's a fun place to start you thinking: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_rod Nevertheless, good enclosures fed with metal conduit that's well grounded appear to do well but the local ordinances need to be heeded. . . . j o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 5:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet If properly grounded, the opposite is true. The ground wire should direct the lightning to ground (hence the name) and away from your equipment. Not to mention that in the case of an equipment failure that causes the power supply to put 120VAC on the case, etc., the ground wire directs the current to ground, not you. It is always about safety. I would much rather have dead equipment than dead personnel because an electrical system was not properly grounded. Dennis Burgess wrote: YOU DO NOT WANT TO RUN A GROUND WIRE! The reason for that, is that then it gives lightning etc the ability to go though your equipment vs the tower ground! B On 5/22/07, Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, Check your local code before you copy this. No ground is not allowed here, unless somehow you can prove it is a temporary extension cord. Neither is low voltage in same conduit at 120VAC. That said, small changes to Dennis' configuration will make good installation. Run the cat5 in a separate (metallic) pipe (rigid, EMT, Sealtite, whatever you like). Ground the bottom of the pipe. I would leave the top ungrounded, but that is: 1) personal preference (eliminates ground loops). 2) determined by which way gives you the best performance, least interference from the FM. You may want to use cat5e or cat6 as the twist is tighter, thus accepting less interference as well. Run a ground wire with the power. Even for the low current required at the top, I would probably run 14AWG or 12AWG. Lowers the inductance, may allow less noise to be induced on the power leads. Besides, 14AWG is the smallest wire you can run with a 15amp breaker. Same thing with ground loops; I would probably use a plastic box and thus isolate the power ground from the enclosure, tower, etc. One good way to do it is consult a local commercial/industrial electrician. They will
Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet
We ground everything properly and sometimes with overkill . We lose 2-3 entire tower sites per year Thank you God ! :) LOL When you take direct hits - there isn't much you can do but hope for the best. Good grounding will only prevent losses due to near hits and static discharges. JohnnyO - Original Message - From: Michael Erskine (804) 436-9428 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet Mike Hammett wrote: Then why don't WISPs deploy a proper grounding system? Hmmm, Ok, I should have read the entire thread. Any WISP who does not deploy a proper grounding system is asking for it. We ground to copper halos that are attached to three eight foot copper clad rods. There are grounded surge supressors between each antenna and each radio and there are grounded surge supressors on each PoE line between the radio and the switch. The switch is grounded. So I can't say why someone else does not deploy a proper ground but I can say that we have not lost a radio in two years. I hasten to add that is not braggin' and please don't get me God, I didn't mean it to sound like anything but thanks. -m- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Michael Erskine (804) 436-9428 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:24 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet Mike Hammett wrote: Why is it, then, that there aren't more radio\TV station outages due to lightning? They have to have done something to reduce their chances of a direct hit on those 1200' towers. A good grounding system that bypasses the communications systems. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet Nothing stops direct hits. A spark that traveled through miles of air isn't really going to care what else is between it and the ground. Good ground is the lifesaver for nearby hits that induce wild voltages. And following the code is always best for the health and safety of the people. Jonathan Schmidt wrote: This has been my experience, Scott. I have seen lightening enter an enclosed device and simply burn a hole right in the middle of a circuit board with nothing else damaged. On my desktop PC, lightening apparently came in through the cable, through the cable modem (destroyed) and down the Ethernet, through the Linksys (OK) to the PC and the only other damage was the motherboard Ethernet. I replaced the modem and bought a PCI Ethernet card and it's fine. What paths lightening took in this incident or the above incident is anyone's guess. There is still controversy over the value of diverting or directing lightening and/or lightening leaders and streamers to protect against a direct hit. It's really fascinating and here's a fun place to start you thinking: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_rod Nevertheless, good enclosures fed with metal conduit that's well grounded appear to do well but the local ordinances need to be heeded. . . . j o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 5:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet If properly grounded, the opposite is true. The ground wire should direct the lightning to ground (hence the name) and away from your equipment. Not to mention that in the case of an equipment failure that causes the power supply to put 120VAC on the case, etc., the ground wire directs the current to ground, not you. It is always about safety. I would much rather have dead equipment than dead personnel because an electrical system was not properly grounded. Dennis Burgess wrote: YOU DO NOT WANT TO RUN A GROUND WIRE! The reason for that, is that then it gives lightning etc the ability to go though your equipment vs the tower ground! B On 5/22/07, Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, Check your local code before you copy this. No ground is not allowed here, unless somehow you can prove it is a temporary extension cord. Neither is low voltage in same conduit at 120VAC. That said, small changes to Dennis' configuration will make good installation. Run the cat5 in a separate (metallic) pipe (rigid, EMT, Sealtite, whatever you like). Ground the bottom of the pipe. I would leave the top ungrounded, but that is: 1) personal preference (eliminates ground loops). 2) determined by which way gives you the best performance, least interference from the FM. You may want to use cat5e or cat6 as the twist is tighter, thus accepting less
[WISPA] Fw: CALEA RouterOS Support and MUM
For those who aren't on Mikrotik's mailing list: - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 11:46 AM Subject: CALEA RouterOS Support and MUM Eight days until the US MUM! There is still time to get a good deal on flights and hotel accommodations. http://mum.mikrotik.com/2007/US/ The following CALEA features will be included in the next version of both RouterOS 2.9.XX and 3.X beta. CALEA features included in RouterOS --- Multiple subject/multiple destination packet interception and streaming in following formats: * Call Content Connection (CCC) Interface according to PKT-SP-ES-DCI-I01-060914 (PacketCable 2.0 PacketCable Electronic Surveillance Delivery Function to Collection Function Interface Specification) * Call Content Connection (CCC) Interface according to ANSI/SCTE 24-13 2006 (IPCalblecom Electronic Surveillance Standard) that is approved method for Communication Content delivery to LEA according to ATIS-113.2007 (Lawfully Authorized Electronic Surveillance For Internet Access and Services) * TZSP format - for reception with 'Ethereal', tcpdump, trafr (sniffer stream reader for linux) - http://www.mikrotik.com/download.html CALEA-server package * accepts multiple CCC streams (identified by destination port/source address/case id) * stores communication content according to IP Network Access Intercept Requirements and Method(FBI-WISPA draft) specified full content intercept requirements (without out-of-band events) * stores communication content of multiple subjects/cases * stores communication content in libpcap format * new libpcap file based on different conditions (interval/size/packet count) * generates hash for each pcap file (md5/sha1/sha256) Initial documentation can be found at: http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Calea Don't forget to attend the MUM CALEA Panel Discussion and register for the MikroTik CALEA Workshop: - MikroTik CALEA Workshop, Wednesday May 30th 1-5PM (registration required [EMAIL PROTECTED]) - CALEA Panel Discussion, Friday June 1st 11:15-12:45 http://mum.mikrotik.com/2007/US/agenda Regards, Training MikroTik No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.6/815 - Release Date: 5/22/2007 3:49 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] QB Integration Survey
I'm working with a Quickbooks module developer on some new stuff, and doing some brainstorming today, I wanted to get a feel for whether these modules would be good for the (W)ISP industry if we developed them: * Module for ISP-style QB recurring billing * QB Customer payment web portal interface * RADIUS server QB interface for customers * Hotspot billing integration * Ability to import VOIP call-detail-records bill customers based on usage * Ability to import RADIUS accounting records for customer usage billing These aren't developed yet but as developers would like to see what kind of market is out there for small ISPs. Many who probably use Quickbooks already for accounting. Please reply OFFLIST. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] consumer credit checking solutions
At 09:26 PM 5/22/2007, you wrote: heya Rick. Where ya been? Where do you THINK? Running from rooftop to rooftop noticing the ever-reducing flexibility in my aging carcass. I've been pretty busy. We just don't let people get more than a month or two into us. Then we shut them off. Haven't had much of a problem. Neither have I, until lately. Probably comes with the territory though now that I've been doing things this way for 6 or 7 years. (Contracts that is, coupled with growth.) When the numbers were smaller, a few bad customers weren't that big of a hit. But it's starting to hurt now because the dollar amounts are larger and there are simply more of them! And it's not $19.95 a month, it's $50 and up. When a $200/mo customer gets into their second month of non-payment, it adds up quick. I've got a half dozen ready for small claims, they add up to over $3k because of early termination charges etc. And we still have to retrieve the gear and install it elsewhere before all is back to equal. So yea, it is hurting more and more and I'm looking for a way to slow the leak. Why do you want to check on people? I have been looking into available solutions that would allow me to do the same thing that's done on any of us when we enter into a financing agreement. Therein lies the problem from what I've been gathering. And therein lies the angle that provides the solution. I don't want to spill the beans quite yet. But I'm checking into the world of credit worthiness verification. It's a close knit community it seems. Rk marlon - Original Message - From: Rick Kunze [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 10:23 AM Subject: [WISPA] consumer credit checking solutions Anyone out there using any credit checking solutions to check the credit worthiness of new sign-ups? Consumer credit checking or the like? Recommendations? Rk -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Net to Industry - So Many Questions
Yea . . . welcome to the world of wireless broadband! You are correct, it's a very confusing landscape. If you only recently started lurking here and/or on other similar lists, that's the best thing you can do. Until I absorbed the material from the lists for a year or so I was baffled. That was about 8 years ago now. Hard to believe! The short answer is that there is no short answer. Every scenario is different and there are no simple answers to sweeping questions. It's a VERY complex fabric and it will take time before you even get familiar with all the acronyms let alone the technology. At 04:38 AM 5/23/2007, you wrote: find more of this info, so that we can approach potential investors. Unless you have a large pile of cash at your disposal, I'd suggest you start a tiny pilot project at the very least. That way you can gain some familiarity with it all before you sign the dotted line. My 2 cents. For tower info, I can help a little: www.do-it-yourself-tower.com. Rk Also, what should we be paying for backhaul? I've seen reports that say it should cost us $10/Mb. Is that synchronous? Our backhaul provider is planning on charging us roughly 60x this - synchronous. How can we know if we are getting a good rate? This is a hilly area - foothills of Appalachia. How can we know what is the best equipment or system to go with. We have so many questions, yet it seems so few places to get answers. It appears that this is a profitable industry - one we want to get into. However, we are just not sure at this point. If any of you are operating systems in rural, hilly areas, we'd love to talk with you. Sorry for the all over the board post, but we're under the gun to get going and we just have so many questions. Kind Regards, Dave -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Net to Industry - So Many Questions
Rick, Thanks for your reply. We have investment money - plus we have an agreement to work with one of the largest rural water districts in the nation to use their tanks. This helps a LOT! They have power at most of them already. Plus, we have access agreements on the other towers we need. I'm a techie so I'm cool with the acronyms - well, I think I am. But anyway, I'm checking out your tower link because we are looking at building one tower. Thanks again, Dave On 5/23/07, Rick Kunze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yea . . . welcome to the world of wireless broadband! You are correct, it's a very confusing landscape. If you only recently started lurking here and/or on other similar lists, that's the best thing you can do. Until I absorbed the material from the lists for a year or so I was baffled. That was about 8 years ago now. Hard to believe! The short answer is that there is no short answer. Every scenario is different and there are no simple answers to sweeping questions. It's a VERY complex fabric and it will take time before you even get familiar with all the acronyms let alone the technology. At 04:38 AM 5/23/2007, you wrote: find more of this info, so that we can approach potential investors. Unless you have a large pile of cash at your disposal, I'd suggest you start a tiny pilot project at the very least. That way you can gain some familiarity with it all before you sign the dotted line. My 2 cents. For tower info, I can help a little: www.do-it-yourself-tower.com. Rk Also, what should we be paying for backhaul? I've seen reports that say it should cost us $10/Mb. Is that synchronous? Our backhaul provider is planning on charging us roughly 60x this - synchronous. How can we know if we are getting a good rate? This is a hilly area - foothills of Appalachia. How can we know what is the best equipment or system to go with. We have so many questions, yet it seems so few places to get answers. It appears that this is a profitable industry - one we want to get into. However, we are just not sure at this point. If any of you are operating systems in rural, hilly areas, we'd love to talk with you. Sorry for the all over the board post, but we're under the gun to get going and we just have so many questions. Kind Regards, Dave -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet
I would think that since they aren't receiving that they can afford to put some strong protection measures in place. The loss that these measures introduce can be offset by just turning the power up. Since we have to receive as well as transmit, we can't afford to do this. I was told a story once by a HAM in Ohio (and maybe a story is all it is...) that am700 WLW in Cincinnati OH has to power cycle their transmitter after a strike because of a spark gap system. I was told that after a lightning strike initiates the spark, the transmitter power is enough to keep the arc going... Jason Mike Hammett wrote: Why is it, then, that there aren't more radio\TV station outages due to lightning? They have to have done something to reduce their chances of a direct hit on those 1200' towers. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet Nothing stops direct hits. A spark that traveled through miles of air isn't really going to care what else is between it and the ground. Good ground is the lifesaver for nearby hits that induce wild voltages. And following the code is always best for the health and safety of the people. Jonathan Schmidt wrote: This has been my experience, Scott. I have seen lightening enter an enclosed device and simply burn a hole right in the middle of a circuit board with nothing else damaged. On my desktop PC, lightening apparently came in through the cable, through the cable modem (destroyed) and down the Ethernet, through the Linksys (OK) to the PC and the only other damage was the motherboard Ethernet. I replaced the modem and bought a PCI Ethernet card and it's fine. What paths lightening took in this incident or the above incident is anyone's guess. There is still controversy over the value of diverting or directing lightening and/or lightening leaders and streamers to protect against a direct hit. It's really fascinating and here's a fun place to start you thinking: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_rod Nevertheless, good enclosures fed with metal conduit that's well grounded appear to do well but the local ordinances need to be heeded. . . . j o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 5:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet If properly grounded, the opposite is true. The ground wire should direct the lightning to ground (hence the name) and away from your equipment. Not to mention that in the case of an equipment failure that causes the power supply to put 120VAC on the case, etc., the ground wire directs the current to ground, not you. It is always about safety. I would much rather have dead equipment than dead personnel because an electrical system was not properly grounded. Dennis Burgess wrote: YOU DO NOT WANT TO RUN A GROUND WIRE! The reason for that, is that then it gives lightning etc the ability to go though your equipment vs the tower ground! B On 5/22/07, Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, Check your local code before you copy this. No ground is not allowed here, unless somehow you can prove it is a temporary extension cord. Neither is low voltage in same conduit at 120VAC. That said, small changes to Dennis' configuration will make good installation. Run the cat5 in a separate (metallic) pipe (rigid, EMT, Sealtite, whatever you like). Ground the bottom of the pipe. I would leave the top ungrounded, but that is: 1) personal preference (eliminates ground loops). 2) determined by which way gives you the best performance, least interference from the FM. You may want to use cat5e or cat6 as the twist is tighter, thus accepting less interference as well. Run a ground wire with the power. Even for the low current required at the top, I would probably run 14AWG or 12AWG. Lowers the inductance, may allow less noise to be induced on the power leads. Besides, 14AWG is the smallest wire you can run with a 15amp breaker. Same thing with ground loops; I would probably use a plastic box and thus isolate the power ground from the enclosure, tower, etc. One good way to do it is consult a local commercial/industrial electrician. They will know the code for your area. But they don't always understand radio and induced voltages. Dennis Burgess wrote: We are located at 400 foot on a FM tower, 100,000 watts at the top of 1400 foot. The total length of CAT 5 is 440 foot or so, and plug directly into a RB532 at the top of the tower (power at the top as well) We ran a felexable conduit up the tower, inside, 16awg solid copper, one black, one white, (for the 110), NO GROUND, and also in that same conduit, we ran good
Re: [WISPA] Fw: CALEA RouterOS Support and MUM
Meaning 2.9.44? Does anyone know if what MT's doing meets the technical requirements of CALEA? I know there's still staffing and contact issues. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 12:28 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: CALEA RouterOS Support and MUM For those who aren't on Mikrotik's mailing list: - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 11:46 AM Subject: CALEA RouterOS Support and MUM Eight days until the US MUM! There is still time to get a good deal on flights and hotel accommodations. http://mum.mikrotik.com/2007/US/ The following CALEA features will be included in the next version of both RouterOS 2.9.XX and 3.X beta. CALEA features included in RouterOS --- Multiple subject/multiple destination packet interception and streaming in following formats: * Call Content Connection (CCC) Interface according to PKT-SP-ES-DCI-I01-060914 (PacketCable 2.0 PacketCable Electronic Surveillance Delivery Function to Collection Function Interface Specification) * Call Content Connection (CCC) Interface according to ANSI/SCTE 24-13 2006 (IPCalblecom Electronic Surveillance Standard) that is approved method for Communication Content delivery to LEA according to ATIS-113.2007 (Lawfully Authorized Electronic Surveillance For Internet Access and Services) * TZSP format - for reception with 'Ethereal', tcpdump, trafr (sniffer stream reader for linux) - http://www.mikrotik.com/download.html CALEA-server package * accepts multiple CCC streams (identified by destination port/source address/case id) * stores communication content according to IP Network Access Intercept Requirements and Method(FBI-WISPA draft) specified full content intercept requirements (without out-of-band events) * stores communication content of multiple subjects/cases * stores communication content in libpcap format * new libpcap file based on different conditions (interval/size/packet count) * generates hash for each pcap file (md5/sha1/sha256) Initial documentation can be found at: http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Calea Don't forget to attend the MUM CALEA Panel Discussion and register for the MikroTik CALEA Workshop: - MikroTik CALEA Workshop, Wednesday May 30th 1-5PM (registration required [EMAIL PROTECTED]) - CALEA Panel Discussion, Friday June 1st 11:15-12:45 http://mum.mikrotik.com/2007/US/agenda Regards, Training MikroTik No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.6/815 - Release Date: 5/22/2007 3:49 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: CALEA RouterOS Support and MUM
Does anyone know the technical requirements of CALEA? If so please send me a link to the final draft. thanks frank - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: CALEA RouterOS Support and MUM Meaning 2.9.44? Does anyone know if what MT's doing meets the technical requirements of CALEA? I know there's still staffing and contact issues. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 12:28 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: CALEA RouterOS Support and MUM For those who aren't on Mikrotik's mailing list: - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 11:46 AM Subject: CALEA RouterOS Support and MUM Eight days until the US MUM! There is still time to get a good deal on flights and hotel accommodations. http://mum.mikrotik.com/2007/US/ The following CALEA features will be included in the next version of both RouterOS 2.9.XX and 3.X beta. CALEA features included in RouterOS --- Multiple subject/multiple destination packet interception and streaming in following formats: * Call Content Connection (CCC) Interface according to PKT-SP-ES-DCI-I01-060914 (PacketCable 2.0 PacketCable Electronic Surveillance Delivery Function to Collection Function Interface Specification) * Call Content Connection (CCC) Interface according to ANSI/SCTE 24-13 2006 (IPCalblecom Electronic Surveillance Standard) that is approved method for Communication Content delivery to LEA according to ATIS-113.2007 (Lawfully Authorized Electronic Surveillance For Internet Access and Services) * TZSP format - for reception with 'Ethereal', tcpdump, trafr (sniffer stream reader for linux) - http://www.mikrotik.com/download.html CALEA-server package * accepts multiple CCC streams (identified by destination port/source address/case id) * stores communication content according to IP Network Access Intercept Requirements and Method(FBI-WISPA draft) specified full content intercept requirements (without out-of-band events) * stores communication content of multiple subjects/cases * stores communication content in libpcap format * new libpcap file based on different conditions (interval/size/packet count) * generates hash for each pcap file (md5/sha1/sha256) Initial documentation can be found at: http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Calea Don't forget to attend the MUM CALEA Panel Discussion and register for the MikroTik CALEA Workshop: - MikroTik CALEA Workshop, Wednesday May 30th 1-5PM (registration required [EMAIL PROTECTED]) - CALEA Panel Discussion, Friday June 1st 11:15-12:45 http://mum.mikrotik.com/2007/US/agenda Regards, Training MikroTik -- -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.6/815 - Release Date: 5/22/2007 3:49 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Fw: CALEA RouterOS Support and MUM
I second that :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jenco Wireless Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 7:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: CALEA RouterOS Support and MUM I knew that when everyone was getting worked up about Calea that MT would come through. Thanks Mikrotik Brad H On 5/23/07, Frank Crawford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know the technical requirements of CALEA? If so please send me a link to the final draft. thanks frank - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: CALEA RouterOS Support and MUM Meaning 2.9.44? Does anyone know if what MT's doing meets the technical requirements of CALEA? I know there's still staffing and contact issues. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 12:28 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: CALEA RouterOS Support and MUM For those who aren't on Mikrotik's mailing list: - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 11:46 AM Subject: CALEA RouterOS Support and MUM Eight days until the US MUM! There is still time to get a good deal on flights and hotel accommodations. http://mum.mikrotik.com/2007/US/ The following CALEA features will be included in the next version of both RouterOS 2.9.XX and 3.X beta. CALEA features included in RouterOS --- Multiple subject/multiple destination packet interception and streaming in following formats: * Call Content Connection (CCC) Interface according to PKT-SP-ES-DCI-I01-060914 (PacketCable 2.0 PacketCable Electronic Surveillance Delivery Function to Collection Function Interface Specification) * Call Content Connection (CCC) Interface according to ANSI/SCTE 24-13 2006 (IPCalblecom Electronic Surveillance Standard) that is approved method for Communication Content delivery to LEA according to ATIS-113.2007 (Lawfully Authorized Electronic Surveillance For Internet Access and Services) * TZSP format - for reception with 'Ethereal', tcpdump, trafr (sniffer stream reader for linux) - http://www.mikrotik.com/download.html CALEA-server package * accepts multiple CCC streams (identified by destination port/source address/case id) * stores communication content according to IP Network Access Intercept Requirements and Method(FBI-WISPA draft) specified full content intercept requirements (without out-of-band events) * stores communication content of multiple subjects/cases * stores communication content in libpcap format * new libpcap file based on different conditions (interval/size/packet count) * generates hash for each pcap file (md5/sha1/sha256) Initial documentation can be found at: http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Calea Don't forget to attend the MUM CALEA Panel Discussion and register for the MikroTik CALEA Workshop: - MikroTik CALEA Workshop, Wednesday May 30th 1-5PM (registration required [EMAIL PROTECTED]) - CALEA Panel Discussion, Friday June 1st 11:15-12:45 http://mum.mikrotik.com/2007/US/agenda Regards, Training MikroTik -- -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.6/815 - Release Date: 5/22/2007 3:49 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet
We have one tower, that as a test, we did not do any grounds other than the power ground. Everything else is grounded by default. What I mean is the mast attached to the tower is grounded simply because it is attached to the tower, etc. This site has been up for 2 years with no issues. The luck factor has a lot to do with lightning. This is not the norm, was done as a test. Justin -- Life is unfair, but root password Helps --- Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] CCNA - A+ - CCNT - TAT - ACSA - COMTRAIN MTIN.NET Wireless - WISP Consulting - Tower Services WEB: http://www.mtin.net WEB: http://www.findawisp.com Phone: 765.762.2851 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet
After many hits, I ungrounded, added inductance and lots and lots of surge suppression (not little ethernet supressors) - my experience (or luck) has been that it is better to un-ground. My location has 100 percent clay soil (clay was used as an insulator in the old days), so that may be a factor. Brad H On 5/23/07, Justin Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have one tower, that as a test, we did not do any grounds other than the power ground. Everything else is grounded by default. What I mean is the mast attached to the tower is grounded simply because it is attached to the tower, etc. This site has been up for 2 years with no issues. The luck factor has a lot to do with lightning. This is not the norm, was done as a test. Justin -- Life is unfair, but root password Helps --- Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] CCNA - A+ - CCNT - TAT - ACSA - COMTRAIN MTIN.NET Wireless - WISP Consulting - Tower Services WEB: http://www.mtin.net WEB: http://www.findawisp.com Phone: 765.762.2851 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FM Radio and Ethernet
There's been a lot of talk in here about how to ground the towers. I hope everybody's actually read up on the topic, but just in case someone isn't, get a book. Don't guess. Proper grounding is hard. It's expensive. One such book is put out by PolyPhaser. It's obviously biased toward using their gear. It's only $20 and has more math than you're probably interested in. But there are a lot of little things to consider. The ARRL also has a three part series, in PDF, about lightning protection. They are free. If you want to experiment with grounded vs. ungrounded, may I suggest you put strike counters on both sets of towers? That's the only way you will know if you are just lucky, or your ground system/strategy is working. My first tower (50') was hit three times the first spring it was up. Lots of little bits and pieces of electronics to sweep up each time. We didn't know how little we knew about proper ground systems. Three ground rods and #4 ground wire ought to be great, right? Got the book. Figured out that we were doing a lot of stupid things. Went from 3 to 6 ground rods. Tweaked a few other things. It's been two years without surge related outage. No strike counter on it yet so I can't prove that the upgrades helped yet. Just to counter the clay makes insulators, clay is the best soil you could want for a ground system. You have to bake the water out of the clay before you get an insulator. In the ground, clay hangs onto water which help conductivity. Be careful, whatever you do. -- Scott LambertKC5MLE Unix SysAdmin [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
