Re: [WISPA] Wireless System Valuation
Metcalfe's Law is N..squared On Fri, 2007-10-26 at 13:49 +, Ron Wallace wrote: To all, What is the best method for determining the value of a Wireless Internet System??? Ron Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 S. Jackson Dt. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517)547-8410 Mobile: (517)605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Ubiquiti PS2 -- StarOS v3
Before I get slammed with reply's; CORRECTION: Both StarOS and Mikrotik have competing hardware to UBNT. Sorry, I know Mikrotik has put a lot of money in the 133c boards and they don't want to open it to other hardware that competes. I don't know about Lonnie, and mean no dis-respect. I don't know if the WAR platform or anything Lonnie is releasing is actually produced by/for him. I am assuming he uses existing hardware... (ASS-U-ME) Eric -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Rogers Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Ubiquiti PS2 -- StarOS v3 That is funny that both Mikrotik and StarOS are walking from UBNT. If I remember correctly, it was the amount of storage on the board that they had issues with. Mikrotik has a little more motive because they are selling competing hardware. Eric Rogers Precision Data Solutions, LLC (317) 831-3000 x200 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wallace L. Walcher Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:29 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Ubiquiti PS2 -- StarOS v3 That is true. They were originally going to support the LS2 (the radio inside the PS2) but later backed away from that. I believe there was an issue with the hardware. They needed UBNT to make a change in order to support it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 1:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Ubiquiti PS2 -- StarOS v3 I have heard that this unit does not run StarOS v3. Can anyone confirm or disprove this? Mark Nash UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti PS2 -- StarOS v3
That's really too bad because this unit WOULD BE very valuable to me if it could run StarOS v3. It's small, powerful, dual-pol, has LEDs to speed up the install/site survey (I know that LEDs aren't everything in a link), reasonably priced, FCC-Certified, etc. HOWEVER, StarOS v3 is my direction, so boards, standoffs, pigtails, and RooTennas it is. I don't like the Lucaya enclosures, or the enclosures with integrated antennas. Mark Nash UnwiredOnline 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax - Original Message - From: Eric Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 7:54 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Ubiquiti PS2 -- StarOS v3 That is funny that both Mikrotik and StarOS are walking from UBNT. If I remember correctly, it was the amount of storage on the board that they had issues with. Mikrotik has a little more motive because they are selling competing hardware. Eric Rogers Precision Data Solutions, LLC (317) 831-3000 x200 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wallace L. Walcher Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:29 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Ubiquiti PS2 -- StarOS v3 That is true. They were originally going to support the LS2 (the radio inside the PS2) but later backed away from that. I believe there was an issue with the hardware. They needed UBNT to make a change in order to support it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 1:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Ubiquiti PS2 -- StarOS v3 I have heard that this unit does not run StarOS v3. Can anyone confirm or disprove this? Mark Nash UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT Comcast email issues
The whitelisted me, that lasted about 48 hours. Got whitelisted again and things, so far, seem to be ok. The part that really pisses me off is that they can't tell me what is getting us black listed! Other than spam. I have NO records of anyone other than one customer with a virus sending out more than a few hundred messages per day. This happened with Verizon too, in their case, if there are more than 50 recipients per message they call it spam and drop it. The big boys probably get paid for sending spam out, then when they get any back at all they pull these stunts. For the life of me, I can't see why anyone wants to do business with the 800lb gorilla in any industry! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 9:34 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT Comcast email issues Marlon, It looks like they see you as a residential subscriber. Do you have allocated IP's from them, Own your own or just a couple statics that come with your bandwidth? I thought you were on a fiber connection! You ought to be able to call that number posted on the bottom of their email and get all that straightened out pretty quick since not being able to send mail through your email server is a REAL problem!! GL let us know how you get it sorted out. Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 9:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT Comcast email issues Hi All, Comcast keeps blocking our mail server. They are saying that we are a customer ON their network trying to send mail via another server. Anyone else having trouble with them of late? Here's the email back from them when I tried to find out WHY they are blocking us. sigh Thank you for contacting Comcast Customer Security Assurance. We have received and reviewed your RBL removal request. Below each IP address you submitted in your request, we have included the result of our research. Please do not reply to this message. 64.146.146.8 Your request for IP block removal has been denied for the following reason: - You have been blocked from emailing the Comcast network because we have determined that you are sending email from a dynamic/residential IP within the Comcast domain. Comcast does not allow subscribers to send email from a mail server other than smtp.comcast.net. All mail should be sent through Comcast's mail server. For information on configuring your machine to use smtp.comcast.net, please follow the link below. http://www.comcast.net/help/faq/index.jsp?faq=Email117481 If you need to run your own mail server, please contact our Commercial Services organization at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sincerely, Comcast Customer Security Assurance Really helpful eh? marlon ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Ubiquiti PS2 -- StarOS v3
That is funny that both Mikrotik and StarOS are walking from UBNT. If I remember correctly, it was the amount of storage on the board that they had issues with. Mikrotik has a little more motive because they are selling competing hardware. Eric Rogers Precision Data Solutions, LLC (317) 831-3000 x200 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wallace L. Walcher Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:29 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Ubiquiti PS2 -- StarOS v3 That is true. They were originally going to support the LS2 (the radio inside the PS2) but later backed away from that. I believe there was an issue with the hardware. They needed UBNT to make a change in order to support it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 1:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Ubiquiti PS2 -- StarOS v3 I have heard that this unit does not run StarOS v3. Can anyone confirm or disprove this? Mark Nash UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.3Ghz bandpass filters
Travis, Another good topic In this specific case... I do not believe it is related to antenna, as it is an antenna that we have previously used and tested to work equally with 5.3Ghz without any degregation. We went through this last spring, when realizing that most of the easilly available antennas were specd only for 5.8 only, and it took significant research to find 5.3G Specd antennas that worked adequately. We liked to see the 5.2-5.8G range stamped on the antenna for documentation purposes, even when a 5.8G antenna worked. So if some other provider goes to the site to isntall, they could see that we may already be using within 5.3G range. But it is true that many 5.8Ghz antennas do NOT perform ideally at 5.3Ghz depending on design, and important to get an antenna designed to support 5.3Ghz within its range. But the truth is, we learned many of the 5.8Ghz antennas do work optimally in 5.3Ghz also, the manufacturer jsut didn't go through the motions and costs to test them or certify them at 5.3Ghz, as they did not see the potential years ago, when doing it. What is specific in our cases, is that the link itself is not bi-directionally degraded. The degregation happens only in one direction (one side). So the question could be... Can a 5.8G antenna incorrectly being used at 5.3Ghz on one side of a link, have different characteristics in TX versus RX, when matched with a true 5.3Ghz antenna on the other side? I don't know the answer to that. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.3Ghz bandpass filters Tom, Maybe this is a dumb question, but I assume you are using antennas rated for 5.3ghz at the AP and CPE side? We have seen some antennas (PacWireless dishes) that are rated for 5.8ghz work perfectly well at 5.3ghz... but then we have seen other antennas rated for 5.8ghz that don't work very well at all below 5.700ghz. Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: Does anyone know where I can buy a cost effective 5.3Ghz Full band pass filter? Further Food for thought: One of the biggest differences that we have noticed, using OEM gear (MB's with mpci Radios), compared to our first generation Trango network, is how much more interference we get at APs. I believe this is because Trango had quality filter designs embedded into their solutions, allthough I'm not an electrical engineer to confirm that. With the OEM gear, I frequently get a good 20db lower signal strength at an AP than I do from the CPE side. (with same gain antennas and same TX power levels) We usually go through the motions of swapping Cards, PS, and MBs as well as fine alignments, to double check. This had also been seen more frequently where we had tried Omni installs, and more susceptable to interference. Sometimes we could solve it with narrower beam antennas, but in many cases that was just not good enough. In most cases we where easilly able to find and use external 2.4G and 900Mhz Filters, which would immediately gain us a good 15db or so, and solve the link problems. So two thumbs up for external filters. Truthfully, in the last two months we've needed more filters, than the within the complete last 7 years we've been in this industry. I attribute this to our larger use of 4 port OEM systems. In today's case, we had 5.8Ghz interference that we thought was self interference from our large number of adjacent sectors, so decided to try 5.3Ghz. We used a Trango built-in spectrum scanner to confirm there was no noise at 5.3Ghz. However, when using an OEM 5.3Ghz radio w/ external AP 20deg panel antenna, we had a 20db loss of signal on the AP side, making the link unusable (-64 at CPE,.-85 at AP). We believe its out-of-band interference or over powering from the near by colocated high power paging antennas at the same horizontal plane. This brought to my attention that we did not have a solution for a 5.3Ghz bandpass filter. And it is needed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
RE: [WISPA] Wireless System Valuation
I would think that it might also be good to know the total number of potential customers that the wireless network footprint covers. A system that covers a potential of 100,000 customers/households would be worth a lot more than one which might only have a maximum of 5,000 households able to be reached. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: David E. Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 11:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless System Valuation Ron Wallace wrote: What is the best method for determining the value of a Wireless Internet System??? According to my college microeconomics professor, it's worth exactly what someone else pays for it. :) Are you looking at just hardware (which is pretty easily quantified), or at a system including active customers (and the obligation to continue providing service to them)? If you're buying a complete business (or at least a bunch of customers) it's normally valued as some multiple of monthly revenue. Depending on your local market conditions, I've heard WISPs valued anywhere from 5x to 12x that number. What, exactly, the number should be depends on those local conditions, what other competition is in the area, whether those customers are under any long-term contracts, the business' established reputation, and about a zillion other things. Sorry to be so very vague. David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wireless System Valuation
Ron Wallace wrote: What is the best method for determining the value of a Wireless Internet System??? According to my college microeconomics professor, it's worth exactly what someone else pays for it. :) Are you looking at just hardware (which is pretty easily quantified), or at a system including active customers (and the obligation to continue providing service to them)? If you're buying a complete business (or at least a bunch of customers) it's normally valued as some multiple of monthly revenue. Depending on your local market conditions, I've heard WISPs valued anywhere from 5x to 12x that number. What, exactly, the number should be depends on those local conditions, what other competition is in the area, whether those customers are under any long-term contracts, the business' established reputation, and about a zillion other things. Sorry to be so very vague. David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] test 3rd time
** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Wireless System Valuation
I'm in the final stages of selling my WISP and the valuation I set was one year gross plus cost of infrastructure outside of radio's. This includes land, leases and structures. It's a lot better for WISP's then it is for ISP's who are getting about 6 months gross income, period. It wasn't hard to find a buyer and they even commented that I was letting it go at a pretty low price, DAMN! I just didn't want to be the guy who says I have 500 customers so I want 1.2 Million, dream on. Forbes -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wallace Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 6:50 AM To: WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Wireless System Valuation To all, What is the best method for determining the value of a Wireless Internet System??? Ron Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 S. Jackson Dt. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517)547-8410 Mobile: (517)605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Politics as Usual
Forbes, Thank you for having the awareness and taking the time to write your elected representatives. Your action sets an excellent example. If 10% of the WISP community would just follow your example, I think we would see a positive change for the better in our industry and for the constituents that we serve - the public. jack P.S. - It was good to see you at ISPCON. Forbes Mercy wrote: After reading a story this morning on a industry related blog I wrote a letter to my Republican Congressman. I sent the same to my two Democrat Senators but just took out the reference to being a Republican. :) Anyway I'm putting it here just so you can remember that only we can keep the pressure up on our representatives on issues that affect us and this is as good of a subject as any to keep beating the drum: A year ago I wrote you when the ATT purchase was being approved stating we had to stay vigilant against the carriers blocking each other in what we refer to as Net Neutrality. You wrote back, and I thank you for that, stating there is no real proof of providers blocking any traffic. This despite my proof at the time that Clearwire was already blocking any Voice over IP service (Internet Phone) other then theirs. I felt your stand was naïve because trusting the Telephone companies is like trusting the prisoners to watch the prison. We're both good Republicans who want to let companies grow as they may to achieve profitability but the exclusionary tactics encouraging monopolistic behavior is alive as always in this industry. Here is a link showing how the wholly unregulated cable industry continues to set the standard of censorship and gradual demise of a free and open Internet: http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2007/10/comcast_is_bloc.html?cid=nl_IWK_daily It is my hope you will pay heed to my warning that open enterprise does not include making Internet access different by companies who make no public claims in their terms and conditions to their customers. This constitutes fraud as people buy Internet based on the belief that their subscription entitles them to a free and open network as it was built. I again greatly encourage you to consider Net Neutrality as a priority, or at the minimum, special written notification to their customers of blocked content, so the public can make an educated choice. These companies advertise they are an equal choice when they are not. Thank you, Forbes Mercy ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wireless System Valuation
Define system. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Ron Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 9:49 AM Subject: [WISPA] Wireless System Valuation To all, What is the best method for determining the value of a Wireless Internet System??? Ron Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 S. Jackson Dt. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517)547-8410 Mobile: (517)605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.5/1085 - Release Date: 10/22/2007 10:35 AM ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti PS2 -- StarOS v3
Dual POL has been a HOT topic for years. One of the other big disadvantages that never materialized. I actually had found a manufacturer that made a custom EXCELLENT Case that included a Dual POL antenna, perfect for CPE. WAR2s and 4s fit easilly. Cost around $70. I walked away from the venture for three reasons 1) because all the commotion regarding FCC Cerification, and the 2) STAROS was moving towards ADI boards that did not fit, and Mikrotik high processor boards didn't fit by one millimeter. 3) No Cost effect dual pol Larger antenna, if needed. 4) No cost effective option for EXTERNAL AP antenna, for 4 port systems, as it was no longer good enough for APs to be a single antenna/radio design.. 5) I don;t want to be a manufacturer But what I'd really like to see is for Lonnie (starOS) or Ligo, to make a CPE with this CPE antenna enclosure, as it would be a HUGE advantage. Provided that their new boards fit. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mark Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti PS2 -- StarOS v3 That's really too bad because this unit WOULD BE very valuable to me if it could run StarOS v3. It's small, powerful, dual-pol, has LEDs to speed up the install/site survey (I know that LEDs aren't everything in a link), reasonably priced, FCC-Certified, etc. HOWEVER, StarOS v3 is my direction, so boards, standoffs, pigtails, and RooTennas it is. I don't like the Lucaya enclosures, or the enclosures with integrated antennas. Mark Nash UnwiredOnline 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax - Original Message - From: Eric Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 7:54 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Ubiquiti PS2 -- StarOS v3 That is funny that both Mikrotik and StarOS are walking from UBNT. If I remember correctly, it was the amount of storage on the board that they had issues with. Mikrotik has a little more motive because they are selling competing hardware. Eric Rogers Precision Data Solutions, LLC (317) 831-3000 x200 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wallace L. Walcher Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:29 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Ubiquiti PS2 -- StarOS v3 That is true. They were originally going to support the LS2 (the radio inside the PS2) but later backed away from that. I believe there was an issue with the hardware. They needed UBNT to make a change in order to support it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 1:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Ubiquiti PS2 -- StarOS v3 I have heard that this unit does not run StarOS v3. Can anyone confirm or disprove this? Mark Nash UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose,
Re: [WISPA] 5.3Ghz bandpass filters
Tom, It does sound like your problem is due to receiver overload. Try contacting DCI Digital Communications Inc. http://www.dci.ca/. Their website doesn't show a 5.3 GHz bandpass filter but they may be able to make some up for you. BTW, antennas generally have the same performance characteristics on TX and RX. jack Tom DeReggi wrote: Travis, Another good topic In this specific case... I do not believe it is related to antenna, as it is an antenna that we have previously used and tested to work equally with 5.3Ghz without any degregation. We went through this last spring, when realizing that most of the easilly available antennas were specd only for 5.8 only, and it took significant research to find 5.3G Specd antennas that worked adequately. We liked to see the 5.2-5.8G range stamped on the antenna for documentation purposes, even when a 5.8G antenna worked. So if some other provider goes to the site to isntall, they could see that we may already be using within 5.3G range. But it is true that many 5.8Ghz antennas do NOT perform ideally at 5.3Ghz depending on design, and important to get an antenna designed to support 5.3Ghz within its range. But the truth is, we learned many of the 5.8Ghz antennas do work optimally in 5.3Ghz also, the manufacturer jsut didn't go through the motions and costs to test them or certify them at 5.3Ghz, as they did not see the potential years ago, when doing it. What is specific in our cases, is that the link itself is not bi-directionally degraded. The degregation happens only in one direction (one side). So the question could be... Can a 5.8G antenna incorrectly being used at 5.3Ghz on one side of a link, have different characteristics in TX versus RX, when matched with a true 5.3Ghz antenna on the other side? I don't know the answer to that. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.3Ghz bandpass filters Tom, Maybe this is a dumb question, but I assume you are using antennas rated for 5.3ghz at the AP and CPE side? We have seen some antennas (PacWireless dishes) that are rated for 5.8ghz work perfectly well at 5.3ghz... but then we have seen other antennas rated for 5.8ghz that don't work very well at all below 5.700ghz. Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: Does anyone know where I can buy a cost effective 5.3Ghz Full band pass filter? Further Food for thought: One of the biggest differences that we have noticed, using OEM gear (MB's with mpci Radios), compared to our first generation Trango network, is how much more interference we get at APs. I believe this is because Trango had quality filter designs embedded into their solutions, allthough I'm not an electrical engineer to confirm that. With the OEM gear, I frequently get a good 20db lower signal strength at an AP than I do from the CPE side. (with same gain antennas and same TX power levels) We usually go through the motions of swapping Cards, PS, and MBs as well as fine alignments, to double check. This had also been seen more frequently where we had tried Omni installs, and more susceptable to interference. Sometimes we could solve it with narrower beam antennas, but in many cases that was just not good enough. In most cases we where easilly able to find and use external 2.4G and 900Mhz Filters, which would immediately gain us a good 15db or so, and solve the link problems. So two thumbs up for external filters. Truthfully, in the last two months we've needed more filters, than the within the complete last 7 years we've been in this industry. I attribute this to our larger use of 4 port OEM systems. In today's case, we had 5.8Ghz interference that we thought was self interference from our large number of adjacent sectors, so decided to try 5.3Ghz. We used a Trango built-in spectrum scanner to confirm there was no noise at 5.3Ghz. However, when using an OEM 5.3Ghz radio w/ external AP 20deg panel antenna, we had a 20db loss of signal on the AP side, making the link unusable (-64 at CPE,.-85 at AP). We believe its out-of-band interference or over powering from the near by colocated high power paging antennas at the same horizontal plane. This brought to my attention that we did not have a solution for a 5.3Ghz bandpass filter. And it is needed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
[WISPA] Trango 900mhz
Hi, Still looking for used Trango 900mhz AP's. Please reply off-list. thanks, Travis Microserv ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Politics as Usual
Well said Forbes! On Fri, 2007-10-26 at 09:29 -0700, Forbes Mercy wrote: After reading a story this morning on a industry related blog I wrote a letter to my Republican Congressman. I sent the same to my two Democrat Senators but just took out the reference to being a Republican. :) Anyway I'm putting it here just so you can remember that only we can keep the pressure up on our representatives on issues that affect us and this is as good of a subject as any to keep beating the drum: A year ago I wrote you when the ATT purchase was being approved stating we had to stay vigilant against the carriers blocking each other in what we refer to as Net Neutrality. You wrote back, and I thank you for that, stating there is no real proof of providers blocking any traffic. This despite my proof at the time that Clearwire was already blocking any Voice over IP service (Internet Phone) other then theirs. I felt your stand was naïve because trusting the Telephone companies is like trusting the prisoners to watch the prison. We're both good Republicans who want to let companies grow as they may to achieve profitability but the exclusionary tactics encouraging monopolistic behavior is alive as always in this industry. Here is a link showing how the wholly unregulated cable industry continues to set the standard of censorship and gradual demise of a free and open Internet: http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2007/10/comcast_is_bloc.html?cid=nl_IWK_daily It is my hope you will pay heed to my warning that open enterprise does not include making Internet access different by companies who make no public claims in their terms and conditions to their customers. This constitutes fraud as people buy Internet based on the belief that their subscription entitles them to a free and open network as it was built. I again greatly encourage you to consider Net Neutrality as a priority, or at the minimum, special written notification to their customers of blocked content, so the public can make an educated choice. These companies advertise they are an equal choice when they are not. Thank you, Forbes Mercy ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wireless System Valuation
I agree market size is a factor, but it will not apply to all candidates. Time in business also matter. Actually longer in business works agaisnt you, when considering market size.. They ask... If there is so much potential market, after all these years, why don't you have it yet? Therefore bringing attention to the sellers weaknesses or worse doubt regarding market factors which could limit viabilty of business model. Some one in need gets a lower selling price, than someone that is capable of materializing market expectations. I've been argueing for YEARS, that revenue is way over rated as a method to evaluate a company's worth. There are so many other more important factors such as how much revenue will your company enable the buyer to obtain because they have your assets. The fiber companies do the same thing. They'll try and sell you Dark fiber alone at a higher price than (Metro GigE) Dark Fiber + Equipment + Managed Broadband Service. The reason is the value is perceived as what the most lucrative buyer prospect could do with the potential of the strand, not the value to you today specifically. The fear is that a small provider will buy the dark fiber cheap and resell it to a big player for a higher margin at still less than market price that could destroy the market, by selling super cheap. Even though a DF strand is less expensive to delvier than a Manage GIGE, teh Dark Fiber is valued at 80GBs or more, not as a peice of cable. Or so the Fiber sellers try to justify. WISPs could use the same principle to evaluate their infrastructure. If the WISP has the abilty to turn the market upside down (say GB Wireless), it will not be evaluated by just a WISP's revenue that may be under selling their services to survive in early stages, it may very well be evaluated based on what it is worth to the provider that could leverage the networks advatange the best, or more so the damage that could occur to the market if their biggest competitor got their hands on the asset. But with that said... You can't argue a WISP to be less valueable than what one comes up by using revenue as the method of measurement. If a WISP is vulnerable, it may come down to a revenue evaluation. A Buyer will start taking away point for everything they identify is a flaw, and the seller will start adding points for everything they think is a unique strategic advantage. If evaluating just equipment similar arguements apply. Standard accounting methods may render in place equipment worthless if it is depreciated. More so if it is a less than future generation product line that is in place. Everyone wants the latest and greatest for maximum potential. But at the same time, the seller can look at that equipment in place and evaluate it's worth as the revenue it generates. If I can put a $100 radio in palce and it generates me $1000 a month, its worth a $1000 amonth, it has nothing to do with the cost of the equipment. At minimum, its worth the equipment calcualted value + man hours required to isntall, and man hours to engineer where it needed to be installed. A lot of costs go into placing an antenna. Property owner negotiations for example, Site Surveys and engineering. These are all costs the buyer saves. The question comes up is... Can the buyer recreate it themselves? Such as if the seller is going bankrupt the buyer can jsut assume it at little charge, with a property owner eager to transfer the agreement. Where as if teh seller is well in operation health without urgency to sell, the only option may be to pay top dollar for the assets. Wireless operation is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. And how muchg they are willing to pay for it determines on how confident they are with the projected revenues they could make from it. The number one factor to determine a companies worth is your abilty to convey they value it has towards obtain future revenue, without uncertainty. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 11:59 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless System Valuation I would think that it might also be good to know the total number of potential customers that the wireless network footprint covers. A system that covers a potential of 100,000 customers/households would be worth a lot more than one which might only have a maximum of 5,000 households able to be reached. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: David E. Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 11:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless System Valuation Ron Wallace wrote: What is the best method for determining the value of a Wireless Internet System??? According to my college microeconomics professor,
Re: [WISPA] Politics as Usual
I'll crack open the can of worms What are you suggesting here Forbes? If it's just truth in advertising then I'm behind you 100%. If however you are suggesting that an ISP should not be able to block traffic of a particular type I will have to disagree. Currently I do not shape traffic beyond bandwidth limits on my customers and blocking netbios traffic at each AP. I would hate to lose the ability to block ports 137-139 though from a security standpoint. I know there are many other ISPs that aggressively shape their bandwidth just to stay in business. Forcing them to open up the pipes will most likely end up with poorer service for more customers. If I were an uninvolved 3rd party it would be interesting to see the market react to legislation that forced no traffic shaping beyond bandwidth caps, but as an independent ISP I don't think I want to try to live through it. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Forbes Mercy wrote: After reading a story this morning on a industry related blog I wrote a letter to my Republican Congressman. I sent the same to my two Democrat Senators but just took out the reference to being a Republican. :) Anyway I'm putting it here just so you can remember that only we can keep the pressure up on our representatives on issues that affect us and this is as good of a subject as any to keep beating the drum: A year ago I wrote you when the ATT purchase was being approved stating we had to stay vigilant against the carriers blocking each other in what we refer to as Net Neutrality. You wrote back, and I thank you for that, stating there is no real proof of providers blocking any traffic. This despite my proof at the time that Clearwire was already blocking any Voice over IP service (Internet Phone) other then theirs. I felt your stand was naïve because trusting the Telephone companies is like trusting the prisoners to watch the prison. We're both good Republicans who want to let companies grow as they may to achieve profitability but the exclusionary tactics encouraging monopolistic behavior is alive as always in this industry. Here is a link showing how the wholly unregulated cable industry continues to set the standard of censorship and gradual demise of a free and open Internet: http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2007/10/comcast_is_bloc.html?cid=nl_IWK_daily It is my hope you will pay heed to my warning that open enterprise does not include making Internet access different by companies who make no public claims in their terms and conditions to their customers. This constitutes fraud as people buy Internet based on the belief that their subscription entitles them to a free and open network as it was built. I again greatly encourage you to consider Net Neutrality as a priority, or at the minimum, special written notification to their customers of blocked content, so the public can make an educated choice. These companies advertise they are an equal choice when they are not. Thank you, Forbes Mercy ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ a href=http://mail.shwisp.net/spam/dspam.cgi?template=historyuser=tetherowretrain=spamsignatureID=16,4722160f226407888450014;!DSPAM:16,4722160f226407888450014!/a ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Link to FCC site for Earth Stations
I have been searching my archives for a couple of days. Someone posted the URL for looking up the Earth Stations and coordinates that are using the 3650 band. Would someone please repost this? Thanks in advance Mike No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.11/1094 - Release Date: 10/26/2007 08:50 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Link to FCC site for Earth Stations
Try here http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/default.htm?job=maps Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Delp Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:57 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Link to FCC site for Earth Stations I have been searching my archives for a couple of days. Someone posted the URL for looking up the Earth Stations and coordinates that are using the 3650 band. Would someone please repost this? Thanks in advance Mike No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.11/1094 - Release Date: 10/26/2007 08:50 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Link to FCC site for Earth Stations
Chuck, Thanks for the link but it is not what I am looking for. There are a number of Earth Stations that use C band Satellite Dishes that are to be avoided with 3650 MHz stuff. I saw a link that showed the locations and their GPS coordinates. Ps It was great talking with you at ISPCON. Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 03:44 To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Link to FCC site for Earth Stations Try here http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/default.htm?job=maps Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Delp Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:57 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Link to FCC site for Earth Stations I have been searching my archives for a couple of days. Someone posted the URL for looking up the Earth Stations and coordinates that are using the 3650 band. Would someone please repost this? Thanks in advance Mike No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.11/1094 - Release Date: 10/26/2007 08:50 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.11/1094 - Release Date: 10/26/2007 08:50 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] CALEA (recovering costs)
It was mentioned back during the CALEA hype that some had considered or did add a CALEA fee on their Internet Service bills. I'm curious if this was done and if it was successful (without upsetting customers or creating too many billing inquiries). Feel free to reply off list if you don't want to advertise your response to the general list. Dylan ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Politics as Usual
My take is that this is the that fateful first step on a very slippery slope. Today they rate shape the traffic, next week they out right block it. I agree that any provider needs to use what ever tools they have to keep users in line. The problem that Forbes is pointing out (I think) is that they are not telling customers they are doing this [rate shaping]. It also stems from the bad use of the word unlimited who's root is the heyday of dial-up [in terms of hours, not bandwidth or quantity of data). Regardless of weather I see it correctly or not, Very Good Work and we all should get writing. www.house.gov/writerep On 10/26/07, Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll crack open the can of worms What are you suggesting here Forbes? If it's just truth in advertising then I'm behind you 100%. If however you are suggesting that an ISP should not be able to block traffic of a particular type I will have to disagree. Currently I do not shape traffic beyond bandwidth limits on my customers and blocking netbios traffic at each AP. I would hate to lose the ability to block ports 137-139 though from a security standpoint. I know there are many other ISPs that aggressively shape their bandwidth just to stay in business. Forcing them to open up the pipes will most likely end up with poorer service for more customers. If I were an uninvolved 3rd party it would be interesting to see the market react to legislation that forced no traffic shaping beyond bandwidth caps, but as an independent ISP I don't think I want to try to live through it. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Forbes Mercy wrote: After reading a story this morning on a industry related blog I wrote a letter to my Republican Congressman. I sent the same to my two Democrat Senators but just took out the reference to being a Republican. :) Anyway I'm putting it here just so you can remember that only we can keep the pressure up on our representatives on issues that affect us and this is as good of a subject as any to keep beating the drum: A year ago I wrote you when the ATT purchase was being approved stating we had to stay vigilant against the carriers blocking each other in what we refer to as Net Neutrality. You wrote back, and I thank you for that, stating there is no real proof of providers blocking any traffic. This despite my proof at the time that Clearwire was already blocking any Voice over IP service (Internet Phone) other then theirs. I felt your stand was naïve because trusting the Telephone companies is like trusting the prisoners to watch the prison. We're both good Republicans who want to let companies grow as they may to achieve profitability but the exclusionary tactics encouraging monopolistic behavior is alive as always in this industry. Here is a link showing how the wholly unregulated cable industry continues to set the standard of censorship and gradual demise of a free and open Internet: http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2007/10/comcast_is_bloc.html?cid=nl_IWK_daily It is my hope you will pay heed to my warning that open enterprise does not include making Internet access different by companies who make no public claims in their terms and conditions to their customers. This constitutes fraud as people buy Internet based on the belief that their subscription entitles them to a free and open network as it was built. I again greatly encourage you to consider Net Neutrality as a priority, or at the minimum, special written notification to their customers of blocked content, so the public can make an educated choice. These companies advertise they are an equal choice when they are not. Thank you, Forbes Mercy ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ a href=http://mail.shwisp.net/spam/dspam.cgi?template=historyuser=tetherowretrain=spamsignatureID=16,4722160f226407888450014;!DSPAM:16,4722160f226407888450014!/a ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at
RE: [WISPA] test 3rd time
Third time's a charm I guess! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 11:24 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] test 3rd time ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.10/1091 - Release Date: 10/24/2007 2:31 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.10/1091 - Release Date: 10/24/2007 2:31 PM ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
