[WISPA] Just got bit by 3.65Ghz rules...
I was in the process of registering a location in preparation to run a licensed 3.65 ghz link. In fact, I wanted to run 3 of them from the same site. That can be done by using 5 mhz channels, and at this time, that would be sufficient bandwidth... But no. At 5 mhz bandwidth, I can't have enough eirp with the registered antennas to complete a link for any significant distance. I'm still putting in my ten mile link, but the throughput will be lower than I expected. Ubitquiti actually rated their cards for max eirp at 5 mhz. The power does not go up and no certification is done for anything above 5 mhz. you can use it, but you're stuck with the horrible power limitation of 36 dbm eirp or less, depending on cable losses. I'm not sure what to do about the rest, as I really, REALLY need to conserve clear spectrum at that site. insert witty tagline here WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IP based security system
I've always been impressed by the webcams that Borealis Broadband has in Anchorage. http://www.borealisbroadband.net/webcams.htm It looks like those are Mobotix. When you say expensive, can you give some sample prices. (there is a link off to a vendor on URL above, they seem to start at $800 ...) On August 6, at 12:42 AM August 6, Tom Sharples wrote: Best quality outdoor-rated IP cams are the megapixel-sensor units made by Mobotix. We use them in our installations whenever possible. They are expensive, but well worth it - one Mobotix cam can do the work of 4 ordinary ones. You can see the image quality on our website, and you can buy them from Radius Security among others. Tom Sharples President Qorvus Systems, Inc. www.qorvus.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Court Injunction
LOL, not. They would all have to have Hams and be in my service area... On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 9:19 PM, RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Victoria Proffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have had to deal with a similar situation. I talked to the guy and told him that he was causing interference in our network. I gave him a free internet account and he only uses his radio one hour a week, with prior notice. -- Victoria Proffer CEO St. Louis Broadband Visit us @ www.StLBroadband.com 314-974-5600 At first, I thought this was a good idea but then I thought what is the word gets out? Cool! Free internet from Victoria for turning up the power on the 900 band! -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4
Daniel, Most professionals use Pathloss. Most if not all commercial carriers use Pathloss I've been engineering Paths for 8 years and swear by it. Its worth it Knowing how to use it properly is priceless. I'm not in here much any more because some of the members like to go against the grain and try to re-invent the wheel with their profound knowledge and lack of experience. Pathloss is a winner. I've used it over the yrs to design networks in over 10 major US markets. 100-400 paths per market. Its a great product. You will need to know how to use a GPS. The software ( Pathlosss ) is a great tool but it should be used in coordination with a process of eyes on/ hands on . Nothing is more valuable than Driving the path and terrain to see what the software is showing you on paper. The software isn't going to show things like new construction. It isn't going to show you that 80' tree sitting on the highest terrain feature blocking your path with gear at 60' on the tower/rooftop. Mikey In a message dated 08/05/08 14:35:25 Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyone on the list using Pathloss 4? Just trying to figure out if the money is really worth it. Thanks! Daniel White 3-dB Networks WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4
Thanks Mikey... I know most of licensed link companies use it, but looking a that $4k price tag makes me really want to think twice about it! Daniel White 3-dB Networks -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MichaelDavidLake Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 Daniel, Most professionals use Pathloss. Most if not all commercial carriers use Pathloss I've been engineering Paths for 8 years and swear by it. Its worth it Knowing how to use it properly is priceless. I'm not in here much any more because some of the members like to go against the grain and try to re-invent the wheel with their profound knowledge and lack of experience. Pathloss is a winner. I've used it over the yrs to design networks in over 10 major US markets. 100-400 paths per market. Its a great product. You will need to know how to use a GPS. The software ( Pathlosss ) is a great tool but it should be used in coordination with a process of eyes on/ hands on . Nothing is more valuable than Driving the path and terrain to see what the software is showing you on paper. The software isn't going to show things like new construction. It isn't going to show you that 80' tree sitting on the highest terrain feature blocking your path with gear at 60' on the tower/rooftop. Mikey In a message dated 08/05/08 14:35:25 Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyone on the list using Pathloss 4? Just trying to figure out if the money is really worth it. Thanks! Daniel White 3-dB Networks WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4
What can it do that Radio Mobile does not? I have been engineering microwave paths since 1978. Back in the day it was curved path profile paper and counting elevation lines on a topo map. I have used about a half dozen software products over the years, including the original on line version from ComSearch. I have NEVER had a path perform worse than my estimation. Many times the received signal strength was within 1 dB of prediction. I consider myself a professional and I am a commercial carrier. So, what's so wonderful about pathloss? - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MichaelDavidLake Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 Daniel, Most professionals use Pathloss. Most if not all commercial carriers use Pathloss I've been engineering Paths for 8 years and swear by it. Its worth it Knowing how to use it properly is priceless. I'm not in here much any more because some of the members like to go against the grain and try to re-invent the wheel with their profound knowledge and lack of experience. Pathloss is a winner. I've used it over the yrs to design networks in over 10 major US markets. 100-400 paths per market. Its a great product. You will need to know how to use a GPS. The software ( Pathlosss ) is a great tool but it should be used in coordination with a process of eyes on/ hands on . Nothing is more valuable than Driving the path and terrain to see what the software is showing you on paper. The software isn't going to show things like new construction. It isn't going to show you that 80' tree sitting on the highest terrain feature blocking your path with gear at 60' on the tower/rooftop. Mikey In a message dated 08/05/08 14:35:25 Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyone on the list using Pathloss 4? Just trying to figure out if the money is really worth it. Thanks! Daniel White 3-dB Networks WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4
Chuck, I am probably one of the biggest supporters of Radio Mobile, love the software and agree with you. What Radio Mobile does not do well is things like reliability factors for hot standby and if you build in diversity antennas. For most WISP's this is not an issue. To that end, Radio Mobile does do well because you can get 10 meter resolution terrain data and now with the working clutter model you can do pretty well with that if you buy the data (1 km resolution is free). Radio Mobile also has issues above a certain frequency due to the fact that the Longley Rice model does not work that high. One big drawback to any RF tool is the learning curve and your knowledge of the basic RF theory itself. Knowing the theory helps you to recognize what the software is doing and why you might get errors. Any of them have a time commitment to become proficient and then use the tool to it's full potential. But as you said, it's certainly much easier than doing it from paper maps counting contour lines :-) I wonder how many people on this this even know how to do that? Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 10:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 What can it do that Radio Mobile does not? I have been engineering microwave paths since 1978. Back in the day it was curved path profile paper and counting elevation lines on a topo map. I have used about a half dozen software products over the years, including the original on line version from ComSearch. I have NEVER had a path perform worse than my estimation. Many times the received signal strength was within 1 dB of prediction. I consider myself a professional and I am a commercial carrier. So, what's so wonderful about pathloss? - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MichaelDavidLake Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 Daniel, Most professionals use Pathloss. Most if not all commercial carriers use Pathloss I've been engineering Paths for 8 years and swear by it. Its worth it Knowing how to use it properly is priceless. I'm not in here much any more because some of the members like to go against the grain and try to re-invent the wheel with their profound knowledge and lack of experience. Pathloss is a winner. I've used it over the yrs to design networks in over 10 major US markets. 100-400 paths per market. Its a great product. You will need to know how to use a GPS. The software ( Pathlosss ) is a great tool but it should be used in coordination with a process of eyes on/ hands on . Nothing is more valuable than Driving the path and terrain to see what the software is showing you on paper. The software isn't going to show things like new construction. It isn't going to show you that 80' tree sitting on the highest terrain feature blocking your path with gear at 60' on the tower/rooftop. Mikey In a message dated 08/05/08 14:35:25 Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyone on the list using Pathloss 4? Just trying to figure out if the money is really worth it. Thanks! Daniel White 3-dB Networks -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:
Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4
Most of the tools use the old ATT long lines long haul and short haul availbility factors that were generated for analog radios. It is the opinion of some that digital radios do not need to need nearly as much fade margin as the old analogs. I would have to say, that our experience with some 60 mile paths using cyclones, I would have to agree with that opinion. Does Pathloss have a different availability formula for digital modulation? - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 Chuck, I am probably one of the biggest supporters of Radio Mobile, love the software and agree with you. What Radio Mobile does not do well is things like reliability factors for hot standby and if you build in diversity antennas. For most WISP's this is not an issue. To that end, Radio Mobile does do well because you can get 10 meter resolution terrain data and now with the working clutter model you can do pretty well with that if you buy the data (1 km resolution is free). Radio Mobile also has issues above a certain frequency due to the fact that the Longley Rice model does not work that high. One big drawback to any RF tool is the learning curve and your knowledge of the basic RF theory itself. Knowing the theory helps you to recognize what the software is doing and why you might get errors. Any of them have a time commitment to become proficient and then use the tool to it's full potential. But as you said, it's certainly much easier than doing it from paper maps counting contour lines :-) I wonder how many people on this this even know how to do that? Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 10:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 What can it do that Radio Mobile does not? I have been engineering microwave paths since 1978. Back in the day it was curved path profile paper and counting elevation lines on a topo map. I have used about a half dozen software products over the years, including the original on line version from ComSearch. I have NEVER had a path perform worse than my estimation. Many times the received signal strength was within 1 dB of prediction. I consider myself a professional and I am a commercial carrier. So, what's so wonderful about pathloss? - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MichaelDavidLake Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 Daniel, Most professionals use Pathloss. Most if not all commercial carriers use Pathloss I've been engineering Paths for 8 years and swear by it. Its worth it Knowing how to use it properly is priceless. I'm not in here much any more because some of the members like to go against the grain and try to re-invent the wheel with their profound knowledge and lack of experience. Pathloss is a winner. I've used it over the yrs to design networks in over 10 major US markets. 100-400 paths per market. Its a great product. You will need to know how to use a GPS. The software ( Pathlosss ) is a great tool but it should be used in coordination with a process of eyes on/ hands on . Nothing is more valuable than Driving the path and terrain to see what the software is showing you on paper. The software isn't going to show things like new construction. It isn't going to show you that 80' tree sitting on the highest terrain feature blocking your path with gear at 60' on the tower/rooftop. Mikey In a message dated 08/05/08 14:35:25 Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyone on the list using Pathloss 4? Just trying to figure out if the money is really worth it. Thanks! Daniel White 3-dB Networks -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] polling
Anything that's WiMAX --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] polling Hi, I would like to start a quick list of the wireless radio's available today that have some type of polling system. Here are the ones I can think of quickly... please add this list: Canopy Trango Alvarion Mikrotik thanks, Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4
I don't know the answer to that question. I have always pondered the issue of fade margin on digital paths. If you factor in an error checking in both the modulation methods and the TCPIP stack, you can deal with minor fades and in many cases you might not even notice a short fade. At that point however you would still need to have a tool that deals well with temperature inversions and rain fade, because if you do get a fade in those situations it more than likely will last long enough to be noticed even on a digital path. But in most cases for WISP's in today's usage patterns they won't run in to those situations. The one thing that will start to push us back to engineering like analog paths, will be the migration towards net applications that are a more constant demand on the pipe and not bursting in nature. Things that would be sensitive to packet resends will start to show a weak backhaul with fading issues. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Chuck McCown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 10:58 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 Most of the tools use the old ATT long lines long haul and short haul availbility factors that were generated for analog radios. It is the opinion of some that digital radios do not need to need nearly as much fade margin as the old analogs. I would have to say, that our experience with some 60 mile paths using cyclones, I would have to agree with that opinion. Does Pathloss have a different availability formula for digital modulation? - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 Chuck, I am probably one of the biggest supporters of Radio Mobile, love the software and agree with you. What Radio Mobile does not do well is things like reliability factors for hot standby and if you build in diversity antennas. For most WISP's this is not an issue. To that end, Radio Mobile does do well because you can get 10 meter resolution terrain data and now with the working clutter model you can do pretty well with that if you buy the data (1 km resolution is free). Radio Mobile also has issues above a certain frequency due to the fact that the Longley Rice model does not work that high. One big drawback to any RF tool is the learning curve and your knowledge of the basic RF theory itself. Knowing the theory helps you to recognize what the software is doing and why you might get errors. Any of them have a time commitment to become proficient and then use the tool to it's full potential. But as you said, it's certainly much easier than doing it from paper maps counting contour lines :-) I wonder how many people on this this even know how to do that? Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 10:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 What can it do that Radio Mobile does not? I have been engineering microwave paths since 1978. Back in the day it was curved path profile paper and counting elevation lines on a topo map. I have used about a half dozen software products over the years, including the original on line version from ComSearch. I have NEVER had a path perform worse than my estimation. Many times the received signal strength was within 1 dB of prediction. I consider myself a professional and I am a commercial carrier. So, what's so wonderful about pathloss? - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MichaelDavidLake Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 Daniel, Most professionals use Pathloss. Most if not all commercial carriers use Pathloss I've been engineering Paths for 8 years and swear by it. Its worth it Knowing how to use it properly is priceless. I'm not in here much any more because some of the members like to go against the grain and try to re-invent the wheel with their profound knowledge and lack of experience. Pathloss is a winner. I've used it over the yrs to design networks in over 10 major US markets. 100-400 paths per market. Its a great product. You will need to know how to use a GPS. The software ( Pathlosss ) is a great tool but it should be used in coordination with a process of eyes on/ hands on . Nothing is more valuable than Driving the path and terrain to see what the software is showing you on paper. The software isn't going to show things like new construction. It isn't going to show you that
Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4
I'll take a copy of your excel file Charles. ;-) - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 Hi Michael, All Pathloss basically does is calculate Vigants-Barnett and/or ITU 530-9 on top of a topo-USA It also doesn't do a good job of taking into account for near/far field interference and all those other black magic Rf affects that occur All-in-all, I don't see much difference between that and the Motorola / Orthogon link calc (which, initially, was just a bunch of ITU models coded into an excel spreadsheet) That said, although one could argue that Pathloss is a good tool for someone who doesn't have an engineering background to quickly design paths, I would counter saying that if you don't actually understand the underlying models behind Pathloss, then you shouldn't be billing yourself as a Microwave engineer =) That said, if one truly understands the background theory behind the availability models, you're probably bright enough to spend the 1-2 hours coding some VB macros into an excel spreadsheet to get the exact same result and you'll have saved yourself $4k -Charles P.S. I've attached a copy of ITU Recommendation P-530-9: Propagation Data and Prediction Methods required for the design of terrestrial line-of-sight systems if anyone is truly interested and wants to learn how stuff actually works -- personally, I think understanding this and Vigants-Barnett should be a pre-requisite for anyone who truly wants to call themselves an Microwave Rf Engineer --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MichaelDavidLake Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 Daniel, Most professionals use Pathloss. Most if not all commercial carriers use Pathloss I've been engineering Paths for 8 years and swear by it. Its worth it Knowing how to use it properly is priceless. I'm not in here much any more because some of the members like to go against the grain and try to re-invent the wheel with their profound knowledge and lack of experience. Pathloss is a winner. I've used it over the yrs to design networks in over 10 major US markets. 100-400 paths per market. Its a great product. You will need to know how to use a GPS. The software ( Pathlosss ) is a great tool but it should be used in coordination with a process of eyes on/ hands on . Nothing is more valuable than Driving the path and terrain to see what the software is showing you on paper. The software isn't going to show things like new construction. It isn't going to show you that 80' tree sitting on the highest terrain feature blocking your path with gear at 60' on the tower/rooftop. Mikey In a message dated 08/05/08 14:35:25 Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyone on the list using Pathloss 4? Just trying to figure out if the money is really worth it. Thanks! Daniel White 3-dB Networks WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4
Bah... You're supposed to be the creative, inquisitive one Chuck =) In all honesty, we've been making some internal changes to accommodate nLoS (specifically, knife-edge and a few others) -- wanna be as nifty and cool as the Orthogon calculator...when that's done, I'll be sure to send it over -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 10:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 I'll take a copy of your excel file Charles. ;-) - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 Hi Michael, All Pathloss basically does is calculate Vigants-Barnett and/or ITU 530-9 on top of a topo-USA It also doesn't do a good job of taking into account for near/far field interference and all those other black magic Rf affects that occur All-in-all, I don't see much difference between that and the Motorola / Orthogon link calc (which, initially, was just a bunch of ITU models coded into an excel spreadsheet) That said, although one could argue that Pathloss is a good tool for someone who doesn't have an engineering background to quickly design paths, I would counter saying that if you don't actually understand the underlying models behind Pathloss, then you shouldn't be billing yourself as a Microwave engineer =) That said, if one truly understands the background theory behind the availability models, you're probably bright enough to spend the 1-2 hours coding some VB macros into an excel spreadsheet to get the exact same result and you'll have saved yourself $4k -Charles P.S. I've attached a copy of ITU Recommendation P-530-9: Propagation Data and Prediction Methods required for the design of terrestrial line-of-sight systems if anyone is truly interested and wants to learn how stuff actually works -- personally, I think understanding this and Vigants-Barnett should be a pre-requisite for anyone who truly wants to call themselves an Microwave Rf Engineer --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MichaelDavidLake Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 Daniel, Most professionals use Pathloss. Most if not all commercial carriers use Pathloss I've been engineering Paths for 8 years and swear by it. Its worth it Knowing how to use it properly is priceless. I'm not in here much any more because some of the members like to go against the grain and try to re-invent the wheel with their profound knowledge and lack of experience. Pathloss is a winner. I've used it over the yrs to design networks in over 10 major US markets. 100-400 paths per market. Its a great product. You will need to know how to use a GPS. The software ( Pathlosss ) is a great tool but it should be used in coordination with a process of eyes on/ hands on . Nothing is more valuable than Driving the path and terrain to see what the software is showing you on paper. The software isn't going to show things like new construction. It isn't going to show you that 80' tree sitting on the highest terrain feature blocking your path with gear at 60' on the tower/rooftop. Mikey In a message dated 08/05/08 14:35:25 Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyone on the list using Pathloss 4? Just trying to figure out if the money is really worth it. Thanks! Daniel White 3-dB Networks WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
[WISPA] Fw: [TowerTalk] Fw: BIG TOWER SALE
Anyone need a tower? marlon - Original Message - From: Joe Rudi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:53 AM Subject: [TowerTalk] Fw: BIG TOWER SALE I am down sizing at my new location and now have over 500 feet of well cared for AB 105 tower available. This is heavy duty stuff and can be used for just about any amateur application. Most of the tower is in 10 foot sections and also available are all the bolts, nuts, rotor and thrust plates as well as documentation. It is currently on the ground ready for pickup in Baker City, Oregon. At $100 per section this is an unbelievable deal. Consider that new Rohn 55 is going for $319 a section for and even Rohn 45 going for $249. Open the attached picture for a view of this heavy duty tower. AB105 has two very practical uses. First, for large arrays of several antennas on one tower and large beams such as a 3 EL 75M beam. Second, for house mounting a 50 or 60 foot tower on a small lot with minimal guys. Please respond by Email with a phone number. Thanks Joe NK7U ___ ___ TowerTalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [TowerTalk] Fw: BIG TOWER SALE
pictures?? On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Anyone need a tower? marlon - Original Message - From: Joe Rudi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:53 AM Subject: [TowerTalk] Fw: BIG TOWER SALE I am down sizing at my new location and now have over 500 feet of well cared for AB 105 tower available. This is heavy duty stuff and can be used for just about any amateur application. Most of the tower is in 10 foot sections and also available are all the bolts, nuts, rotor and thrust plates as well as documentation. It is currently on the ground ready for pickup in Baker City, Oregon. At $100 per section this is an unbelievable deal. Consider that new Rohn 55 is going for $319 a section for and even Rohn 45 going for $249. Open the attached picture for a view of this heavy duty tower. AB105 has two very practical uses. First, for large arrays of several antennas on one tower and large beams such as a 3 EL 75M beam. Second, for house mounting a 50 or 60 foot tower on a small lot with minimal guys. Please respond by Email with a phone number. Thanks Joe NK7U ___ ___ TowerTalk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- John M. McDowell Boonlink Communications 307 Grand Ave NW Fort Payne, AL 35967 256.844.9932 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.boonlink.com This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to spoofing, spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or the source, please contact the sender directly. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4
I can't speak to Pathloss as I have not used it, but I will agree that RM is pretty accurate. It comes down to the accuacy and attention to detail. Garbage in = garbage out. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 7:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 What can it do that Radio Mobile does not? I have been engineering microwave paths since 1978. Back in the day it was curved path profile paper and counting elevation lines on a topo map. I have used about a half dozen software products over the years, including the original on line version from ComSearch. I have NEVER had a path perform worse than my estimation. Many times the received signal strength was within 1 dB of prediction. I consider myself a professional and I am a commercial carrier. So, what's so wonderful about pathloss? - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MichaelDavidLake Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pathloss 4 Daniel, Most professionals use Pathloss. Most if not all commercial carriers use Pathloss I've been engineering Paths for 8 years and swear by it. Its worth it Knowing how to use it properly is priceless. I'm not in here much any more because some of the members like to go against the grain and try to re-invent the wheel with their profound knowledge and lack of experience. Pathloss is a winner. I've used it over the yrs to design networks in over 10 major US markets. 100-400 paths per market. Its a great product. You will need to know how to use a GPS. The software ( Pathlosss ) is a great tool but it should be used in coordination with a process of eyes on/ hands on . Nothing is more valuable than Driving the path and terrain to see what the software is showing you on paper. The software isn't going to show things like new construction. It isn't going to show you that 80' tree sitting on the highest terrain feature blocking your path with gear at 60' on the tower/rooftop. Mikey In a message dated 08/05/08 14:35:25 Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyone on the list using Pathloss 4? Just trying to figure out if the money is really worth it. Thanks! Daniel White 3-dB Networks WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IP based security system
List prices range from $795 to around $1500, depending on whether they are single or dual lens (day / night) and the output resolution. We mostly use the m22 it or the m22 sec, which range from $795 to $995. You can find some discounts, but there's not a lot of margin in these products. Tom S. - Original Message - From: John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 6:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] IP based security system I've always been impressed by the webcams that Borealis Broadband has in Anchorage. http://www.borealisbroadband.net/webcams.htm It looks like those are Mobotix. When you say expensive, can you give some sample prices. (there is a link off to a vendor on URL above, they seem to start at $800 ...) On August 6, at 12:42 AM August 6, Tom Sharples wrote: Best quality outdoor-rated IP cams are the megapixel-sensor units made by Mobotix. We use them in our installations whenever possible. They are expensive, but well worth it - one Mobotix cam can do the work of 4 ordinary ones. You can see the image quality on our website, and you can buy them from Radius Security among others. Tom Sharples President Qorvus Systems, Inc. www.qorvus.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] ATT - Wireless is Answer for Rural Markets
ATT http://www.att.com may look to WiMAX to provide broadband in rural markets http://www.wimaxforum.org/technology/, according to their CTO John Donovan. “WiMAX could come in handy in some U.S. markets, particularly rural areas where it's becoming prohibitively expensive to maintain copper,” quotes the USA Today in an interview with Donovan http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/2008-07-31-att-tries-to-stay-ahead-of-tech_N.htm http://telecompetitor.com/node/751 -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Vendor-Neutral Wireless Design-Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting FCC License # PG-12-25133 Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/