Re: [WISPA] youtube down
Bench test = sleep more. ;) On 2/9/2014 3:29 PM, heith petersen wrote: I am hoping to get this all straightened out shortly so we can start on routing these networks. I see a lot more sleepless nights ahead, but I think I have the owners realizing that it will be all worth it. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies?
They have been DFS2 friendly for a long time, yes. They've been tweaking the false-positive reactions, but otherwise good. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 9, 2014 10:15:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies? On 2/9/2014 9:42 AM, Gino Villarini wrote: The use of compliance test is one of the reasons the FCC is clamping down on 5 ghz… UBNT says that they got DFS2 working in 5.5.2, in 2012, so at least some radios, including the NSM5, are compliant. Aren't these officially approved yet for the DFS bands? blockquote Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 6:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies? DFS always comes second due to a longer certification process. It'll eventually come. Some manufacturers seem to get approved more quickly, but that could be timing of announcements and not the actual certification process. -50 dBm? Where? Where? I do see where your address is and I am suspect. I am in suburban Chicago and I have at worst -70 noise floor. It's actually better in downtown Chicago at someone I know's apartment 22 floors up (maybe low-E glass?). Something is very wrong if you have a -50 dB noise floor. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Art Stephens asteph...@ptera.com To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 10:29:09 AM Subject: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies? Recent events make me wonder if the FCC is trying to muscle wisps out of these frequencies. Since we are primarily Ubiquiti equipment I can only speak from that platform. First the latest firmware update removes compliance test which for about 40% of our equipment deployed would render them unusable since 5735 - 5840 runs at - 50dBm or higher noise levels in our area, Second is new product released only supports 5735 - 5840. Seems like DFS is such a pain that manufacturers do not want to mess with it. Case in point the new NanoBeam M series only support 5725-5850 for USA. Worldwide version which we are not allowed to buy or deploy supports 5170-5875. Seems the only alternative is to go with licensed P2MP which makes more money for the FCC and drives the cost of wireless internet up for both wisps and consumers. -- Arthur Stephens Senior Networking Technician Ptera Inc. PO Box 135 24001 E Mission Suite 50 Liberty Lake, WA 99019 509-927-7837 ptera.com facebook.com/PteraInc | twitter.com/Ptera - This message may contain confidential and/or propriety information, and is intended for the person/entity to whom it was originally addressed. Any use by others is strictly prohibited. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and are not intended to represent those of the company. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote -- Fred R. Goldstein k1io fred at interisle.net Interisle Consulting Group +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies?
Blair Davis wrote, I just went and read a bunch of the comments on the proceeding... I didn't read them all, but I didn't find one in favor of the lower antenna gain... Has anyone else? Motorola Solutions, makers of $6000 police walkie-talkies, explicitly supports the lower gain limit. Cisco also supports the lower power rule. They only make local access points, after all, and are buddy-buddy with the Bells. We should keep that in mind when making our purchase decisions. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies?
Interesting statement regarding Cisco. They sell $3000 per unit mesh equipment whose range would be hurt if power limits were dropped. John Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com On February 10, 2014 6:15:22 AM Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: Blair Davis wrote, I just went and read a bunch of the comments on the proceeding... I didn't read them all, but I didn't find one in favor of the lower antenna gain... Has anyone else? Motorola Solutions, makers of $6000 police walkie-talkies, explicitly supports the lower gain limit. Cisco also supports the lower power rule. They only make local access points, after all, and are buddy-buddy with the Bells. We should keep that in mind when making our purchase decisions. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies?
Which means more units... Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Feb 10, 2014 9:42 AM, John Thomas jtho...@quarnet.com wrote: Interesting statement regarding Cisco. They sell $3000 per unit mesh equipment whose range would be hurt if power limits were dropped. John Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com On February 10, 2014 6:15:22 AM Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: Blair Davis wrote, I just went and read a bunch of the comments on the proceeding... I didn't read them all, but I didn't find one in favor of the lower antenna gain... Has anyone else? Motorola Solutions, makers of $6000 police walkie-talkies, explicitly supports the lower gain limit. Cisco also supports the lower power rule. They only make local access points, after all, and are buddy-buddy with the Bells. We should keep that in mind when making our purchase decisions. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies?
On 2/10/2014 9:42 AM, John Thomas wrote: Interesting statement regarding Cisco. They sell $3000 per unit mesh equipment whose range would be hurt if power limits were dropped. John But I don't think they do stuff with high-gain external antennas. Peeking through Comments, Ericsson, btw, also supports the lower limits. Again, a big supplier to the CMRS industry, so they probably see WISPs as competitors. The WiFi Alliance also calls for the stricter gain limit, presumably because they only care about their indoor applications and want to limit competing users of the band. I don't know what companies are in the Alliance. Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com On February 10, 2014 6:15:22 AM Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: Blair Davis wrote, I just went and read a bunch of the comments on the proceeding... I didn't read them all, but I didn't find one in favor of the lower antenna gain... Has anyone else? Motorola Solutions, makers of $6000 police walkie-talkies, explicitly supports the lower gain limit. Cisco also supports the lower power rule. They only make local access points, after all, and are buddy-buddy with the Bells. We should keep that in mind when making our purchase decisions. -- Fred R. Goldstein k1io fred at interisle.net Interisle Consulting Group +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies?
So what about the cell companies that use 5GHz for a quick back haul while waiting for their license to come in? On Feb 10, 2014, at 10:20, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: On 2/10/2014 9:42 AM, John Thomas wrote: Interesting statement regarding Cisco. They sell $3000 per unit mesh equipment whose range would be hurt if power limits were dropped. John But I don't think they do stuff with high-gain external antennas. Peeking through Comments, Ericsson, btw, also supports the lower limits. Again, a big supplier to the CMRS industry, so they probably see WISPs as competitors. The WiFi Alliance also calls for the stricter gain limit, presumably because they only care about their indoor applications and want to limit competing users of the band. I don't know what companies are in the Alliance. Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com On February 10, 2014 6:15:22 AM Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: Blair Davis wrote, I just went and read a bunch of the comments on the proceeding... I didn't read them all, but I didn't find one in favor of the lower antenna gain... Has anyone else? Motorola Solutions, makers of $6000 police walkie-talkies, explicitly supports the lower gain limit. Cisco also supports the lower power rule. They only make local access points, after all, and are buddy-buddy with the Bells. We should keep that in mind when making our purchase decisions. -- Fred R. Goldstein k1io fred at interisle.net Interisle Consulting Group +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies?
On 2/10/2014 10:21 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: So what about the cell companies that use 5GHz for a quick back haul while waiting for their license to come in? Not the ones commenting in favor of the proposal. I suppose the old Motorola might have understood that, but Cambium now owns the unlicensed stuff, while MotSol sells extravagantly expensive P25 radios. And you don't want to know what their dispatch console (really a PC application) sells for. To most of the WiFi crowd, unlicensed wireless is just indoors. That's all most consumers, at least in urban areas, see. Of course they don't know that we're using those bands for urban public safety applications too (which is what I am up to). The WiFi Alliance is obsessing about 802.11ac, and wants four 160 MHz wide channels for indoor use. So uniform rules make that easier, so that all of the channel is under one rule. And to hell with everyone else. After all, if you're out in the boonies at the end of a WISP link, you probably don't need 802.11ac in your home anyway. Personally, I think that 11n is fast enough for normal WLAN use, and for those super-fast short haul indoor applications like HD video monitors, WiGig at 60G is more promising. It's just a matter of getting the cost down and into mass production. The new 60G rules are interesting too, for those shorter outdoor hops (1 mile). The +82 dBm EIRP cap is quite generous. But boy does 52dBi antenna alignment matter. -- Fred R. Goldstein k1io fred at interisle.net Interisle Consulting Group +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies?
I’m with Forrest here. Back in the “back ol’ days” of everyone running amps (we had to back then in many cases) some vendors loved to sell more power. More power means faster service at longer ranges right? WRONG. Carrier to interference level is where your speed and distance comes from. The high power systems, as Forrest says, cause the radios to produce much more *detectable* power outside their main band. That power outside the main band causes the interference. It was always a struggle, but when I used to do interference I convinced many WISPs that LOWER powers would actually improve the performance of their networks. It was nearly 100% true. In the rare cases when lower power levels didn’t work it was because people were trying to use higher powers to over-ride physics and go through trees, buildings etc. One very important note here. If you do try lower power levels you’ll have to lower ALL of the devices back down to reasonable levels (RSSI should be between –65 and –75 for most modern radios to perform their best, –55 will work but see the above notes about self inflicted interference). A quick check is to shut down all of your AP’s in an area and see what the noise goes to. Oh yeah, very few radios really report accurate interference information. If you are checking those levels via anything other than a real spectrum analyzer you’ll likely find out that there are also other things happening in your area. Call if you’d like and we can talk this out a bit more. 509.988.0260 laters, marlon From: Forrest Christian (List Account) Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 9:53 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies? I'm going to agree with others... Running outside legal limits doesn't look good to the FCC, and it sounds like you are definitely running outside the limits since you are whining about the ability to run your radios in a mode which seems to have no use than to exceed the limits. I will also add that if you're running all your radios hotter than they should be that your nose floor problem is most likely self inflicted. My experience over the years is that radios are designed to run at a specific tx power and if you're exceeding it you get a lot of out of channel bleed over. Even if the radios don't do this you are introducing far more rf than is likely needed causing an overall rising of the noise floor. Please don't interpret everyone's ire incorrectly. We've just all either dealt with an operator like you are now or have been an operator like you are now. And right now we're trying to gain credibility with the FCC which is hard to do when some operators are flagrantly breaking the rules. Which makes us a bit grumpy. I'm sure some of your neighbors out there would love to help you better understand what you are doing to yourself and help you improve your operations which will in turn improve your quality of service. Heck, I'd drive over there for a weekend if my schedule wasn't so packed. In any case please ask for help in appropriate spots and let us help you reap the rewards of a correctly and legally operating network. On Feb 8, 2014 4:49 PM, Art Stephens asteph...@ptera.com wrote: Recent events make me wonder if the FCC is trying to muscle wisps out of these frequencies. Since we are primarily Ubiquiti equipment I can only speak from that platform. First the latest firmware update removes compliance test which for about 40% of our equipment deployed would render them unusable since 5735 - 5840 runs at - 50dBm or higher noise levels in our area, Second is new product released only supports 5735 - 5840. Seems like DFS is such a pain that manufacturers do not want to mess with it. Case in point the new NanoBeam M series only support 5725-5850 for USA. Worldwide version which we are not allowed to buy or deploy supports 5170-5875. Seems the only alternative is to go with licensed P2MP which makes more money for the FCC and drives the cost of wireless internet up for both wisps and consumers. -- Arthur Stephens Senior Networking Technician Ptera Inc. PO Box 135 24001 E Mission Suite 50 Liberty Lake, WA 99019 509-927-7837 ptera.com facebook.com/PteraInc | twitter.com/Ptera - This message may contain confidential and/or propriety information, and is intended for the person/entity to whom it was originally addressed. Any use by others is strictly prohibited. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and are not intended to represent those of the company. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies?
Amen. Preach it Brother Marlon. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 10, 2014, at 12:19, Marlon Schafer (509.982.2181) o...@odessaoffice.commailto:o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: I’m with Forrest here. Back in the “back ol’ days” of everyone running amps (we had to back then in many cases) some vendors loved to sell more power. More power means faster service at longer ranges right? WRONG. Carrier to interference level is where your speed and distance comes from. The high power systems, as Forrest says, cause the radios to produce much more *detectable* power outside their main band. That power outside the main band causes the interference. It was always a struggle, but when I used to do interference I convinced many WISPs that LOWER powers would actually improve the performance of their networks. It was nearly 100% true. In the rare cases when lower power levels didn’t work it was because people were trying to use higher powers to over-ride physics and go through trees, buildings etc. One very important note here. If you do try lower power levels you’ll have to lower ALL of the devices back down to reasonable levels (RSSI should be between –65 and –75 for most modern radios to perform their best, –55 will work but see the above notes about self inflicted interference). A quick check is to shut down all of your AP’s in an area and see what the noise goes to. Oh yeah, very few radios really report accurate interference information. If you are checking those levels via anything other than a real spectrum analyzer you’ll likely find out that there are also other things happening in your area. Call if you’d like and we can talk this out a bit more. 509.988.0260 laters, marlon From: Forrest Christian (List Account)mailto:li...@packetflux.com Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 9:53 AM To: WISPA General Listmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies? I'm going to agree with others... Running outside legal limits doesn't look good to the FCC, and it sounds like you are definitely running outside the limits since you are whining about the ability to run your radios in a mode which seems to have no use than to exceed the limits. I will also add that if you're running all your radios hotter than they should be that your nose floor problem is most likely self inflicted. My experience over the years is that radios are designed to run at a specific tx power and if you're exceeding it you get a lot of out of channel bleed over. Even if the radios don't do this you are introducing far more rf than is likely needed causing an overall rising of the noise floor. Please don't interpret everyone's ire incorrectly. We've just all either dealt with an operator like you are now or have been an operator like you are now. And right now we're trying to gain credibility with the FCC which is hard to do when some operators are flagrantly breaking the rules. Which makes us a bit grumpy. I'm sure some of your neighbors out there would love to help you better understand what you are doing to yourself and help you improve your operations which will in turn improve your quality of service. Heck, I'd drive over there for a weekend if my schedule wasn't so packed. In any case please ask for help in appropriate spots and let us help you reap the rewards of a correctly and legally operating network. On Feb 8, 2014 4:49 PM, Art Stephens asteph...@ptera.commailto:asteph...@ptera.com wrote: Recent events make me wonder if the FCC is trying to muscle wisps out of these frequencies. Since we are primarily Ubiquiti equipment I can only speak from that platform. First the latest firmware update removes compliance test which for about 40% of our equipment deployed would render them unusable since 5735 - 5840 runs at - 50dBm or higher noise levels in our area, Second is new product released only supports 5735 - 5840. Seems like DFS is such a pain that manufacturers do not want to mess with it. Case in point the new NanoBeam M series only support 5725-5850 for USA. Worldwide version which we are not allowed to buy or deploy supports 5170-5875. Seems the only alternative is to go with licensed P2MP which makes more money for the FCC and drives the cost of wireless internet up for both wisps and consumers. -- Arthur Stephens Senior Networking Technician Ptera Inc. PO Box 135 24001 E Mission Suite 50 Liberty Lake, WA 99019 509-927-7837tel:509-927-7837 ptera.comhttp://ptera.com facebook.com/PteraInchttp://facebook.com/PteraInc | twitter.com/Pterahttp://twitter.com/Ptera - This message may contain confidential and/or propriety information, and is intended for the person/entity to whom it was originally addressed. Any use by others is strictly prohibited. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and are
[WISPA] Net Hatchet ethernet interface appliance
Anyone used one of these to monitor a solar battery setup? Any comments? Thanx NGL If you can read this Thank A Teacher. And if it's in English Thank A Soldier! flag.gif___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies?
You're mostly correct. You need to top -65 dB to get full modulation when you have -95 dB of noise, so you still need the -55 signals if you're near any civilization. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Marlon Schafer (509.982.2181) o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 11:19:32 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies? I’m with Forrest here. Back in the “back ol’ days” of everyone running amps (we had to back then in many cases) some vendors loved to sell more power. More power means faster service at longer ranges right? WRONG. Carrier to interference level is where your speed and distance comes from. The high power systems, as Forrest says, cause the radios to produce much more *detectable* power outside their main band. That power outside the main band causes the interference. It was always a struggle, but when I used to do interference I convinced many WISPs that LOWER powers would actually improve the performance of their networks. It was nearly 100% true. In the rare cases when lower power levels didn’t work it was because people were trying to use higher powers to over-ride physics and go through trees, buildings etc. One very important note here. If you do try lower power levels you’ll have to lower ALL of the devices back down to reasonable levels (RSSI should be between –65 and –75 for most modern radios to perform their best, –55 will work but see the above notes about self inflicted interference). A quick check is to shut down all of your AP’s in an area and see what the noise goes to. Oh yeah, very few radios really report accurate interference information. If you are checking those levels via anything other than a real spectrum analyzer you’ll likely find out that there are also other things happening in your area. Call if you’d like and we can talk this out a bit more. 509.988.0260 laters, marlon From: Forrest Christian (List Account) Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 9:53 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies? I'm going to agree with others... Running outside legal limits doesn't look good to the FCC, and it sounds like you are definitely running outside the limits since you are whining about the ability to run your radios in a mode which seems to have no use than to exceed the limits. I will also add that if you're running all your radios hotter than they should be that your nose floor problem is most likely self inflicted. My experience over the years is that radios are designed to run at a specific tx power and if you're exceeding it you get a lot of out of channel bleed over. Even if the radios don't do this you are introducing far more rf than is likely needed causing an overall rising of the noise floor. Please don't interpret everyone's ire incorrectly. We've just all either dealt with an operator like you are now or have been an operator like you are now. And right now we're trying to gain credibility with the FCC which is hard to do when some operators are flagrantly breaking the rules. Which makes us a bit grumpy. I'm sure some of your neighbors out there would love to help you better understand what you are doing to yourself and help you improve your operations which will in turn improve your quality of service. Heck, I'd drive over there for a weekend if my schedule wasn't so packed. In any case please ask for help in appropriate spots and let us help you reap the rewards of a correctly and legally operating network. On Feb 8, 2014 4:49 PM, Art Stephens asteph...@ptera.com wrote: Recent events make me wonder if the FCC is trying to muscle wisps out of these frequencies. Since we are primarily Ubiquiti equipment I can only speak from that platform. First the latest firmware update removes compliance test which for about 40% of our equipment deployed would render them unusable since 5735 - 5840 runs at - 50dBm or higher noise levels in our area, Second is new product released only supports 5735 - 5840. Seems like DFS is such a pain that manufacturers do not want to mess with it. Case in point the new NanoBeam M series only support 5725-5850 for USA. Worldwide version which we are not allowed to buy or deploy supports 5170-5875. Seems the only alternative is to go with licensed P2MP which makes more money for the FCC and drives the cost of wireless internet up for both wisps and consumers. -- Arthur Stephens Senior Networking Technician Ptera Inc. PO Box 135 24001 E Mission Suite 50 Liberty Lake, WA 99019 509-927-7837 ptera.com facebook.com/PteraInc | twitter.com/Ptera - This message may contain confidential and/or propriety information, and is
[WISPA] Voiceserve hosted
Anyone has experience with this hosted voip SP? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.commailto:g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies?
I would be happy to drive out there to give you a hand Arthur. ryan On 2/10/14 9:19 AM, Marlon Schafer (509.982.2181) wrote: I'm with Forrest here. Back in the back ol' days of everyone running amps (we had to back then in many cases) some vendors loved to sell more power. More power means faster service at longer ranges right? WRONG. Carrier to interference level is where your speed and distance comes from. The high power systems, as Forrest says, cause the radios to produce much more *detectable* power outside their main band. That power outside the main band causes the interference. It was always a struggle, but when I used to do interference I convinced many WISPs that LOWER powers would actually improve the performance of their networks. It was nearly 100% true. In the rare cases when lower power levels didn't work it was because people were trying to use higher powers to over-ride physics and go through trees, buildings etc. One very important note here. If you do try lower power levels you'll have to lower ALL of the devices back down to reasonable levels (RSSI should be between --65 and --75 for most modern radios to perform their best, --55 will work but see the above notes about self inflicted interference). A quick check is to shut down all of your AP's in an area and see what the noise goes to. Oh yeah, very few radios really report accurate interference information. If you are checking those levels via anything other than a real spectrum analyzer you'll likely find out that there are also other things happening in your area. Call if you'd like and we can talk this out a bit more. 509.988.0260 laters, marlon *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) mailto:li...@packetflux.com *Sent:* Sunday, February 09, 2014 9:53 AM *To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies? I'm going to agree with others... Running outside legal limits doesn't look good to the FCC, and it sounds like you are definitely running outside the limits since you are whining about the ability to run your radios in a mode which seems to have no use than to exceed the limits. I will also add that if you're running all your radios hotter than they should be that your nose floor problem is most likely self inflicted. My experience over the years is that radios are designed to run at a specific tx power and if you're exceeding it you get a lot of out of channel bleed over. Even if the radios don't do this you are introducing far more rf than is likely needed causing an overall rising of the noise floor. Please don't interpret everyone's ire incorrectly. We've just all either dealt with an operator like you are now or have been an operator like you are now. And right now we're trying to gain credibility with the FCC which is hard to do when some operators are flagrantly breaking the rules. Which makes us a bit grumpy. I'm sure some of your neighbors out there would love to help you better understand what you are doing to yourself and help you improve your operations which will in turn improve your quality of service. Heck, I'd drive over there for a weekend if my schedule wasn't so packed. In any case please ask for help in appropriate spots and let us help you reap the rewards of a correctly and legally operating network. On Feb 8, 2014 4:49 PM, Art Stephens asteph...@ptera.com mailto:asteph...@ptera.com wrote: Recent events make me wonder if the FCC is trying to muscle wisps out of these frequencies. Since we are primarily Ubiquiti equipment I can only speak from that platform. First the latest firmware update removes compliance test which for about 40% of our equipment deployed would render them unusable since 5735 - 5840 runs at - 50dBm or higher noise levels in our area, Second is new product released only supports 5735 - 5840. Seems like DFS is such a pain that manufacturers do not want to mess with it. Case in point the new NanoBeam M series only support 5725-5850 for USA. Worldwide version which we are not allowed to buy or deploy supports 5170-5875. Seems the only alternative is to go with licensed P2MP which makes more money for the FCC and drives the cost of wireless internet up for both wisps and consumers. -- Arthur Stephens Senior Networking Technician Ptera Inc. PO Box 135 24001 E Mission Suite 50 Liberty Lake, WA 99019 509-927-7837 tel:509-927-7837 ptera.com http://ptera.com facebook.com/PteraInc http://facebook.com/PteraInc | twitter.com/Ptera http://twitter.com/Ptera - This message may contain confidential and/or propriety information, and is intended for the person/entity to whom it was originally addressed. Any use by others is strictly prohibited.
Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies?
I don't even know of amps for 5GHz? I thought this was mainly about antenna gain... -- On 2/10/2014 3:14 PM, D. Ryan Spott wrote: I would be happy to drive out there to give you a hand Arthur. ryan On 2/10/14 9:19 AM, Marlon Schafer (509.982.2181) wrote: I'm with Forrest here. Back in the back ol' days of everyone running amps (we had to back then in many cases) some vendors loved to sell more power. More power means faster service at longer ranges right? WRONG. Carrier to interference level is where your speed and distance comes from. The high power systems, as Forrest says, cause the radios to produce much more *detectable* power outside their main band. That power outside the main band causes the interference. It was always a struggle, but when I used to do interference I convinced many WISPs that LOWER powers would actually improve the performance of their networks. It was nearly 100% true. In the rare cases when lower power levels didn't work it was because people were trying to use higher powers to over-ride physics and go through trees, buildings etc. One very important note here. If you do try lower power levels you'll have to lower ALL of the devices back down to reasonable levels (RSSI should be between --65 and --75 for most modern radios to perform their best, --55 will work but see the above notes about self inflicted interference). A quick check is to shut down all of your AP's in an area and see what the noise goes to. Oh yeah, very few radios really report accurate interference information. If you are checking those levels via anything other than a real spectrum analyzer you'll likely find out that there are also other things happening in your area. Call if you'd like and we can talk this out a bit more. 509.988.0260 laters, marlon *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) mailto:li...@packetflux.com *Sent:* Sunday, February 09, 2014 9:53 AM *To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Are we being muscled out of the 5265 - 5700 frequencies? I'm going to agree with others... Running outside legal limits doesn't look good to the FCC, and it sounds like you are definitely running outside the limits since you are whining about the ability to run your radios in a mode which seems to have no use than to exceed the limits. I will also add that if you're running all your radios hotter than they should be that your nose floor problem is most likely self inflicted. My experience over the years is that radios are designed to run at a specific tx power and if you're exceeding it you get a lot of out of channel bleed over. Even if the radios don't do this you are introducing far more rf than is likely needed causing an overall rising of the noise floor. Please don't interpret everyone's ire incorrectly. We've just all either dealt with an operator like you are now or have been an operator like you are now. And right now we're trying to gain credibility with the FCC which is hard to do when some operators are flagrantly breaking the rules. Which makes us a bit grumpy. I'm sure some of your neighbors out there would love to help you better understand what you are doing to yourself and help you improve your operations which will in turn improve your quality of service. Heck, I'd drive over there for a weekend if my schedule wasn't so packed. In any case please ask for help in appropriate spots and let us help you reap the rewards of a correctly and legally operating network. On Feb 8, 2014 4:49 PM, Art Stephens asteph...@ptera.com mailto:asteph...@ptera.com wrote: Recent events make me wonder if the FCC is trying to muscle wisps out of these frequencies. Since we are primarily Ubiquiti equipment I can only speak from that platform. First the latest firmware update removes compliance test which for about 40% of our equipment deployed would render them unusable since 5735 - 5840 runs at - 50dBm or higher noise levels in our area, Second is new product released only supports 5735 - 5840. Seems like DFS is such a pain that manufacturers do not want to mess with it. Case in point the new NanoBeam M series only support 5725-5850 for USA. Worldwide version which we are not allowed to buy or deploy supports 5170-5875. Seems the only alternative is to go with licensed P2MP which makes more money for the FCC and drives the cost of wireless internet up for both wisps and consumers. -- Arthur Stephens Senior Networking Technician Ptera Inc. PO Box 135 24001 E Mission Suite 50 Liberty Lake, WA 99019 509-927-7837 tel:509-927-7837 ptera.com http://ptera.com facebook.com/PteraInc http://facebook.com/PteraInc | twitter.com/Ptera http://twitter.com/Ptera - This message may contain confidential and/or propriety
Re: [WISPA] Net Hatchet ethernet interface appliance
Good find. I have never used these,but I am going to order one and give it a try. On Monday, February 10, 2014 1:28 PM, ~NGL~ n...@ngl.net wrote: Anyone used one of these to monitor a solar battery setup? Any comments? Thanx NGL If you can read this Thank A Teacher.And if it's in English Thank A Soldier!___Wireless mailing listWireless@wispa.orghttp://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
