Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
I have no experience with 802.16e, but have lots with 802.16d. 16d does not support MIMO. However, even without MIMO, we are ripping out 900/5.x and putting in Alvarion .16d. The diversity alone gives it penetration characteristics equal to or better than 900. WiMax does cost more, as we all know, but it also supports more clients (we're projecting close to 200 per base station. I hope we're right... ;-). We can't put it in where 900 is serving just a few customers. Chuck On Apr 19, 2010, at 9:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
We did not find that WiMax in general was better than 900. The key isn't WiMax, per se, but diversity antennas. Performance is *helped* by being 3.65 WiMax but that alone does NOT obviate the need for 900 in our experience. Diversity is key. Chuck On Apr 19, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote: I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
Yes but. Diversity does not necessarilly yield the same percentage improvement in bands like 900Mhz as it does in 2.4, 3,6 and 5.8. When we field tested Aperto Pre-Wimax in 5.8 a few years back, we learned a bit on Polarity diversity. Aperto had a really cool tool that measured both pols side by side, and you could watch the Polarity shift in varying amounts over time (combined with effects from fade and multipath), by watching the RSSI change on each polarty individually and having it graphed. It was amazing to see how much it varied between pols and how much it changed over time (meaning seconds), a huge amount. It was a sure testimonial for benefit of Pol diversity in reflective areas, in low noise areas. (note we chose not to use it because in high noise congested areas it was more important to have polarity isolation to enable more channel use and avoid noise, and at the time we thought AP was to expensive for a 6mhz channel). WaveRider replicated the idea in 900Mhz with their peanut shaped diversity CPE, understanding that polarity rotated as obstacles were hit. But I'm not sure that we really noticed that much improvement in our Waverider 900Mhz diversity trials. Again, polarity isolation yielded so much more benefit than the minor benefit 900 showed with pol diversity. I do not know whether Alvarion 16.d uses pol or spatial diversity or other more complex method. But what we learned from Chuck's trials was that what ever it was, it made a huge difference in his 3.65 diversity trials. My point here is that Diversity can make a huge difference, diversity is the differenciator, but that the benefit of diversity can vary dependant on the Freq used and environment tackling, based on past experience. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? We did not find that WiMax in general was better than 900. The key isn't WiMax, per se, but diversity antennas. Performance is *helped* by being 3.65 WiMax but that alone does NOT obviate the need for 900 in our experience. Diversity is key. Chuck On Apr 19, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote: I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
On Apr 20, 2010, at 12:00 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: My point here is that Diversity can make a huge difference, diversity is the differenciator, but that the benefit of diversity can vary dependant on the Freq used and environment tackling, based on past experience. Without looking up the math on this, I would speculate that the reason is wavelength. At 3.65 we're about 4' apart. To get the same advantage at 900 MHz I'd willing to bet you might need to be quite a bit further apart-which isn't practical in most cases. I'm not willing to say it scales with wavelength (not without looking at the actual equations that is) but wavelength is going to be a factor in how effective diversity is at any given distance between two antennas. On the other hand, moving the antennas further apart at lower frequencies should be able to re-create the advantage. Chuck Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? We did not find that WiMax in general was better than 900. The key isn't WiMax, per se, but diversity antennas. Performance is *helped* by being 3.65 WiMax but that alone does NOT obviate the need for 900 in our experience. Diversity is key. Chuck On Apr 19, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote: I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
On the motorola webinar today they talked about the benefits of diversity and had comparisons between 900 3.65 part d and motorola's 320. Of course I understand the 90 percent of what they probably said was a stretch of the truth. They had a guy in Florida that tested all three and the 320 made links that the others couldn't. They cited the benefit of Mimo from multipath and reflection and said the benefits in certain frequencies were more prominent than lower frequencies. Just putting what was said out there. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 20, 2010, at 5:14 PM, Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com wrote: On Apr 20, 2010, at 12:00 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: My point here is that Diversity can make a huge difference, diversity is the differenciator, but that the benefit of diversity can vary dependant on the Freq used and environment tackling, based on past experience. Without looking up the math on this, I would speculate that the reason is wavelength. At 3.65 we're about 4' apart. To get the same advantage at 900 MHz I'd willing to bet you might need to be quite a bit further apart-which isn't practical in most cases. I'm not willing to say it scales with wavelength (not without looking at the actual equations that is) but wavelength is going to be a factor in how effective diversity is at any given distance between two antennas. On the other hand, moving the antennas further apart at lower frequencies should be able to re-create the advantage. Chuck Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? We did not find that WiMax in general was better than 900. The key isn't WiMax, per se, but diversity antennas. Performance is *helped* by being 3.65 WiMax but that alone does NOT obviate the need for 900 in our experience. Diversity is key. Chuck On Apr 19, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote: I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? OFFLIST
so what wimax gear are you using? Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 From: Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:18 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? All I can say is that the effects of a lower modulated customer on my alvarion system seem to have a more profound impact on the system than what I have seen so far on 3.65. Granted I've only had the wimax up for 8 months and that's the only data I have to go on. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 9:10 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: There is no protocol design that can achieve that. A TDD system is a population of time slots; if a bunch of users (not just a couple) with high traffic demand (not low traffic or small bursts) have low modulation, it will talke more time slots to serve them. If a fairness system based on bandwidth is in place them all of the users will still suffer; if a fairness system based on time-slots is in place they won't get the service you promised them. There is no free lunch. I've run a 3.5 GHz WiMAX system with 3.5 MHz channels and the base station was always complaining the system was too oversubscribed; guess what, it was right, we were trying to serve more than feasible CIR/MIR traffic on those BSTs. Having a rule that only QAM16/QAM64 stations were allowed improved this problem a lot. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I too have heard from others that WIMAX was designed so that the customers with poor connections don't take performance away from the rest with good connections. So far I have yet to hear ANYONE disprove this. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
Oops not offlist good thing it wasn't a secret ;) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 From: Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:18 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? All I can say is that the effects of a lower modulated customer on my alvarion system seem to have a more profound impact on the system than what I have seen so far on 3.65. Granted I've only had the wimax up for 8 months and that's the only data I have to go on. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 9:10 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: There is no protocol design that can achieve that. A TDD system is a population of time slots; if a bunch of users (not just a couple) with high traffic demand (not low traffic or small bursts) have low modulation, it will talke more time slots to serve them. If a fairness system based on bandwidth is in place them all of the users will still suffer; if a fairness system based on time-slots is in place they won't get the service you promised them. There is no free lunch. I've run a 3.5 GHz WiMAX system with 3.5 MHz channels and the base station was always complaining the system was too oversubscribed; guess what, it was right, we were trying to serve more than feasible CIR/MIR traffic on those BSTs. Having a rule that only QAM16/QAM64 stations were allowed improved this problem a lot. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I too have heard from others that WIMAX was designed so that the customers with poor connections don't take performance away from the rest with good connections. So far I have yet to hear ANYONE disprove this. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
[WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
I too have heard from others that WIMAX was designed so that the customers with poor connections don't take performance away from the rest with good connections. So far I have yet to hear ANYONE disprove this. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
It's probably the same math that lets you put 10,000 15 meg customers on a single 3.5 MHz channel. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:55 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? I too have heard from others that WIMAX was designed so that the customers with poor connections don't take performance away from the rest with good connections. So far I have yet to hear ANYONE disprove this. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
There is no protocol design that can achieve that. A TDD system is a population of time slots; if a bunch of users (not just a couple) with high traffic demand (not low traffic or small bursts) have low modulation, it will talke more time slots to serve them. If a fairness system based on bandwidth is in place them all of the users will still suffer; if a fairness system based on time-slots is in place they won't get the service you promised them. There is no free lunch. I've run a 3.5 GHz WiMAX system with 3.5 MHz channels and the base station was always complaining the system was too oversubscribed; guess what, it was right, we were trying to serve more than feasible CIR/MIR traffic on those BSTs. Having a rule that only QAM16/QAM64 stations were allowed improved this problem a lot. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I too have heard from others that WIMAX was designed so that the customers with poor connections don't take performance away from the rest with good connections. So far I have yet to hear ANYONE disprove this. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
All I can say is that the effects of a lower modulated customer on my alvarion system seem to have a more profound impact on the system than what I have seen so far on 3.65. Granted I've only had the wimax up for 8 months and that's the only data I have to go on. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 9:10 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: There is no protocol design that can achieve that. A TDD system is a population of time slots; if a bunch of users (not just a couple) with high traffic demand (not low traffic or small bursts) have low modulation, it will talke more time slots to serve them. If a fairness system based on bandwidth is in place them all of the users will still suffer; if a fairness system based on time-slots is in place they won't get the service you promised them. There is no free lunch. I've run a 3.5 GHz WiMAX system with 3.5 MHz channels and the base station was always complaining the system was too oversubscribed; guess what, it was right, we were trying to serve more than feasible CIR/MIR traffic on those BSTs. Having a rule that only QAM16/QAM64 stations were allowed improved this problem a lot. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I too have heard from others that WIMAX was designed so that the customers with poor connections don't take performance away from the rest with good connections. So far I have yet to hear ANYONE disprove this. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
I guess the other situation that I am not taking into account is that because of no interference every other sub I have is modulating at qam 64 3/4 and packet loss is sitting at 0.004% instead of what the alvarion 900 deals with. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 9:10 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: There is no protocol design that can achieve that. A TDD system is a population of time slots; if a bunch of users (not just a couple) with high traffic demand (not low traffic or small bursts) have low modulation, it will talke more time slots to serve them. If a fairness system based on bandwidth is in place them all of the users will still suffer; if a fairness system based on time-slots is in place they won't get the service you promised them. There is no free lunch. I've run a 3.5 GHz WiMAX system with 3.5 MHz channels and the base station was always complaining the system was too oversubscribed; guess what, it was right, we were trying to serve more than feasible CIR/MIR traffic on those BSTs. Having a rule that only QAM16/QAM64 stations were allowed improved this problem a lot. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I too have heard from others that WIMAX was designed so that the customers with poor connections don't take performance away from the rest with good connections. So far I have yet to hear ANYONE disprove this. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
