Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?)
Those marketing photos sure look pretty though. They might also explain why I keep seeing installs done just like the pictures. I had a bit of an argument a few weeks ago on the UBNT forums with some folks defending using indoor patch cable outside and not wrapping connectors. It started with someone complaining to UBNT that the patch cable boots wouldn't fit inside the bullet caps. (The answer from UBNT was that it was a tradeoff in the design...???) Silly me, I said they were supposed to be used with outdoor shielded cable, not patch with the boots. You wouldn't believe how many negative comments came from that. Pictures of nice pretty blue PVC patch cables and bright shiny connectors. And now there is an army of installers following these lies. We use outdoor, flooded cable with the static drain wire to an outdoor shielded connector. All connections wrapped. It's not as pretty but I don't work for Apple so I just care about it being functional and trouble free. I would be more attracted to a photo of equipment with a correct install. They are marketing to professionals, after all, and when I see one of these photos, I'm like you and are too busy being distracted by the things that are wrong. On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote: Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely create a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just big enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing photos of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?)
Nice pretty and shiny PVC makes for a better picture in a variety of colors! All the outdoor shielded cable we've ever purchased is a boring flat black. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) Wait why would patch cables look better then shielded cable and connectors..? On 9/12/09, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Those marketing photos sure look pretty though. They might also explain why I keep seeing installs done just like the pictures. I had a bit of an argument a few weeks ago on the UBNT forums with some folks defending using indoor patch cable outside and not wrapping connectors. It started with someone complaining to UBNT that the patch cable boots wouldn't fit inside the bullet caps. (The answer from UBNT was that it was a tradeoff in the design...???) Silly me, I said they were supposed to be used with outdoor shielded cable, not patch with the boots. You wouldn't believe how many negative comments came from that. Pictures of nice pretty blue PVC patch cables and bright shiny connectors. And now there is an army of installers following these lies. We use outdoor, flooded cable with the static drain wire to an outdoor shielded connector. All connections wrapped. It's not as pretty but I don't work for Apple so I just care about it being functional and trouble free. I would be more attracted to a photo of equipment with a correct install. They are marketing to professionals, after all, and when I see one of these photos, I'm like you and are too busy being distracted by the things that are wrong. On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote: Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely create a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just big enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing photos of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?)
As opposed to pretty rainbow colors? On 9/12/09, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Nice pretty and shiny PVC makes for a better picture in a variety of colors! All the outdoor shielded cable we've ever purchased is a boring flat black. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) Wait why would patch cables look better then shielded cable and connectors..? On 9/12/09, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Those marketing photos sure look pretty though. They might also explain why I keep seeing installs done just like the pictures. I had a bit of an argument a few weeks ago on the UBNT forums with some folks defending using indoor patch cable outside and not wrapping connectors. It started with someone complaining to UBNT that the patch cable boots wouldn't fit inside the bullet caps. (The answer from UBNT was that it was a tradeoff in the design...???) Silly me, I said they were supposed to be used with outdoor shielded cable, not patch with the boots. You wouldn't believe how many negative comments came from that. Pictures of nice pretty blue PVC patch cables and bright shiny connectors. And now there is an army of installers following these lies. We use outdoor, flooded cable with the static drain wire to an outdoor shielded connector. All connections wrapped. It's not as pretty but I don't work for Apple so I just care about it being functional and trouble free. I would be more attracted to a photo of equipment with a correct install. They are marketing to professionals, after all, and when I see one of these photos, I'm like you and are too busy being distracted by the things that are wrong. On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote: Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely create a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just big enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing photos of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?)
Yep. I'll take a boring flat black shielded cable over a pretty indoor patch cable anytime for an outdoor install. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) As opposed to pretty rainbow colors? On 9/12/09, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Nice pretty and shiny PVC makes for a better picture in a variety of colors! All the outdoor shielded cable we've ever purchased is a boring flat black. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) Wait why would patch cables look better then shielded cable and connectors..? On 9/12/09, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Those marketing photos sure look pretty though. They might also explain why I keep seeing installs done just like the pictures. I had a bit of an argument a few weeks ago on the UBNT forums with some folks defending using indoor patch cable outside and not wrapping connectors. It started with someone complaining to UBNT that the patch cable boots wouldn't fit inside the bullet caps. (The answer from UBNT was that it was a tradeoff in the design...???) Silly me, I said they were supposed to be used with outdoor shielded cable, not patch with the boots. You wouldn't believe how many negative comments came from that. Pictures of nice pretty blue PVC patch cables and bright shiny connectors. And now there is an army of installers following these lies. We use outdoor, flooded cable with the static drain wire to an outdoor shielded connector. All connections wrapped. It's not as pretty but I don't work for Apple so I just care about it being functional and trouble free. I would be more attracted to a photo of equipment with a correct install. They are marketing to professionals, after all, and when I see one of these photos, I'm like you and are too busy being distracted by the things that are wrong. On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote: Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely create a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just big enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing photos of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?)
I use black as well. It has worked for me. Belden branded and a spooled. On 9/12/09, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Yep. I'll take a boring flat black shielded cable over a pretty indoor patch cable anytime for an outdoor install. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) As opposed to pretty rainbow colors? On 9/12/09, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Nice pretty and shiny PVC makes for a better picture in a variety of colors! All the outdoor shielded cable we've ever purchased is a boring flat black. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) Wait why would patch cables look better then shielded cable and connectors..? On 9/12/09, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Those marketing photos sure look pretty though. They might also explain why I keep seeing installs done just like the pictures. I had a bit of an argument a few weeks ago on the UBNT forums with some folks defending using indoor patch cable outside and not wrapping connectors. It started with someone complaining to UBNT that the patch cable boots wouldn't fit inside the bullet caps. (The answer from UBNT was that it was a tradeoff in the design...???) Silly me, I said they were supposed to be used with outdoor shielded cable, not patch with the boots. You wouldn't believe how many negative comments came from that. Pictures of nice pretty blue PVC patch cables and bright shiny connectors. And now there is an army of installers following these lies. We use outdoor, flooded cable with the static drain wire to an outdoor shielded connector. All connections wrapped. It's not as pretty but I don't work for Apple so I just care about it being functional and trouble free. I would be more attracted to a photo of equipment with a correct install. They are marketing to professionals, after all, and when I see one of these photos, I'm like you and are too busy being distracted by the things that are wrong. On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote: Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely create a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just big enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing photos of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
[WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?)
This is one of the reasons I like StarOS so much. The developers also run a WISP in their ski town (about 300 customers a few years ago, I think) Much more believable when they said do it this way and it works, I could trust them. Are there other wireless companies that do this? On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote: Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely create a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just big enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing photos of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?)
Tranzeo Deliberant -Original Message- From: John Valenti vale...@lir.msu.edu Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:31 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) This is one of the reasons I like StarOS so much. The developers also run a WISP in their ski town (about 300 customers a few years ago, I think) Much more believable when they said do it this way and it works, I could trust them. Are there other wireless companies that do this? On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote: Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely create a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just big enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing photos of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ [The entire original message is not included] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?)
MT - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: John Valenti vale...@lir.msu.edu Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:31 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) This is one of the reasons I like StarOS so much. The developers also run a WISP in their ski town (about 300 customers a few years ago, I think) Much more believable when they said do it this way and it works, I could trust them. Are there other wireless companies that do this? On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote: Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely create a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just big enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing photos of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?)
Depends what you mean by Vendor. Manufacturer or Reseller? As a reseller/distributor we built from the ground up a 7,500 subscriber WISP with over 130 tower sites (Mesa Networks located out of Frederick, CO). We only sell gear we have personally used and deployed, and know how it actually performs in the real world. It has been a year and a half since we sold our WISP, but we are still very active in the field deploying gear for our customers Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of John Valenti Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 9:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) This is one of the reasons I like StarOS so much. The developers also run a WISP in their ski town (about 300 customers a few years ago, I think) Much more believable when they said do it this way and it works, I could trust them. Are there other wireless companies that do this? On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote: Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely create a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just big enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing photos of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?)
Mikrotik, although they did say at MUM their WISP is much less a part of their business than it was. Ralph wrote: Tranzeo Deliberant -Original Message- From: John Valenti vale...@lir.msu.edu Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:31 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) This is one of the reasons I like StarOS so much. The developers also run a WISP in their ski town (about 300 customers a few years ago, I think) Much more believable when they said do it this way and it works, I could trust them. Are there other wireless companies that do this? On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote: Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely create a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just big enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing photos of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ [The entire original message is not included] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.91/2363 - Release Date: 09/11/09 09:15:00 -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?)
We are a distributor/reseller we started out as a ISP turned WISP and still run our networks. We deploy what we sell and our techs have firsthand knowledge with the equipment and work closely with the manufacturers we represent to improve the products to work the best way. / Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of John Valenti Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) This is one of the reasons I like StarOS so much. The developers also run a WISP in their ski town (about 300 customers a few years ago, I think) Much more believable when they said do it this way and it works, I could trust them. Are there other wireless companies that do this? On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote: Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely create a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just big enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing photos of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?)
And remember, that ski town has a very low noise floor, so you sometimes get , 'well why doesn't a -88 work? Dah We use Star OS, so I need to duck now! Incoming! Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC cprof...@cv-access.com Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ralph Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 8:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) Tranzeo Deliberant -Original Message- From: John Valenti vale...@lir.msu.edu Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:31 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) This is one of the reasons I like StarOS so much. The developers also run a WISP in their ski town (about 300 customers a few years ago, I think) Much more believable when they said do it this way and it works, I could trust them. Are there other wireless companies that do this? On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote: Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely create a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just big enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing photos of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ [The entire original message is not included] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?)
Exactly... I'd argue having a manufacturer that keeps engineers in the field visiting WISP's and helping them solve their problems is more important than having a manufacturer that has a small WISP on the side (heck that could even be considered a distraction). Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Profito Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:27 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) And remember, that ski town has a very low noise floor, so you sometimes get , 'well why doesn't a -88 work? Dah We use Star OS, so I need to duck now! Incoming! Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC cprof...@cv-access.com Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ralph Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 8:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) Tranzeo Deliberant -Original Message- From: John Valenti vale...@lir.msu.edu Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:31 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) This is one of the reasons I like StarOS so much. The developers also run a WISP in their ski town (about 300 customers a few years ago, I think) Much more believable when they said do it this way and it works, I could trust them. Are there other wireless companies that do this? On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote: Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely create a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just big enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing photos of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ [The entire original message is not included] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?)
I don't buy into that model at all! Vendors need to focus on the product they are manufacturing and work with their customers to ensure that they are manufacturing what is needed and works as expected. While at first it seems like a good idea eventually trying to be everything to everyone causes a vendor to lose focus or divert resources in ways that normally would be used on product development. When I was in the development side of the house I had key customers whom I could trust with their knowledge and insight to deploy and guide our beta products so that a released product would performed as expected. If you try doing this as a vendor/deployment then you become too mi-optic in your views. IMHO Bret On Fri, 2009-09-11 at 09:27 -0700, Chuck Profito wrote: And remember, that ski town has a very low noise floor, so you sometimes get , 'well why doesn't a -88 work? Dah We use Star OS, so I need to duck now! Incoming! Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC cprof...@cv-access.com Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ralph Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 8:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) Tranzeo Deliberant -Original Message- From: John Valenti vale...@lir.msu.edu Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:31 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) This is one of the reasons I like StarOS so much. The developers also run a WISP in their ski town (about 300 customers a few years ago, I think) Much more believable when they said do it this way and it works, I could trust them. Are there other wireless companies that do this? On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote: Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely create a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just big enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing photos of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ [The entire original message is not included] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?)
Certainly, having engineers visit WISPs is important. I have appreciated visits from a couple vendors and I'm sure they have learned a lot too visiting various ISP customers. There is no replacement for this. I have seen some suggestions make it into products from multiple vendors we work with. I'm sure I wasn't alone in some of the suggestions. Unfortunately, many WISPs are not that advanced and can not adequately test that many features that some systems offer due to time or skill constraints. Most WISPs are learning as they go. I have one mature vendor who says nobody has asked those type of questions of them regarding a product I had just installed. Another vendor has some very cool features that we haven't figured out in 10 years of tinkering, but we are welcome to contact their engineers for advice in applying this to our situation. WISPs and manufacturers both run the gamut for their talents. This why lots of bad/strange stuff makes it past beta, and also why competent distributor/sellers can be of value. Actually doing WISP work could help the vendors better describe NLOS, the potential folly of customer installed CPE (zero truck roll deployment), total cost of installation issues, aesthetic issuse (think the original trango 900 gear (model 915 I think)), product integration with open source software for programming and management, support techniques, troubleshooting (ubnt bullets had a 30 sec delay for signal quality LED updates at first) , Software reliability (thinking MT's software might be better if they had to fly to site or climb a snowy mountain in the dark to fix a memory leak or ethernet driver) Then there's the issue of credibility improvement. Compared to cars again, All the big car execs fly around in gulfstreams or are chauferred. When one actualy drove a car they made to Washington DC during the bailouts it was big news. A laborer for the same company would also not drive a Porsche to work at a Ford/Chevy/Chrysler plant. On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 10:38:17AM -0600, 3-dB Networks wrote: Exactly... I'd argue having a manufacturer that keeps engineers in the field visiting WISP's and helping them solve their problems is more important than having a manufacturer that has a small WISP on the side (heck that could even be considered a distraction). Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Profito Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:27 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) And remember, that ski town has a very low noise floor, so you sometimes get , 'well why doesn't a -88 work? Dah We use Star OS, so I need to duck now! Incoming! Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC cprof...@cv-access.com Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ralph Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 8:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) Tranzeo Deliberant -Original Message- From: John Valenti vale...@lir.msu.edu Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:31 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) This is one of the reasons I like StarOS so much. The developers also run a WISP in their ski town (about 300 customers a few years ago, I think) Much more believable when they said do it this way and it works, I could trust them. Are there other wireless companies that do this? On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote: Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely create a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just big enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing photos of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ [The entire original message is not included] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?)
I would imagine that's because their hardware and software business has exploded. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:11 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) Mikrotik, although they did say at MUM their WISP is much less a part of their business than it was. Ralph wrote: Tranzeo Deliberant -Original Message- From: John Valenti vale...@lir.msu.edu Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:31 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Vendors eating their dogfood (was Re: Which WiMAX Are You?) This is one of the reasons I like StarOS so much. The developers also run a WISP in their ski town (about 300 customers a few years ago, I think) Much more believable when they said do it this way and it works, I could trust them. Are there other wireless companies that do this? On Sep 10, 2009, at 11:42 AM, jp wrote: Sidepoint Some of the wireless equipment vendors would likely create a superior product faster if they ran a modest sustainable WISP just big enough for real world product testing. Too often we see marketing photos of gear installed outdoors with shiny bare N connectors, indoor unshielded cat5 on the pole, etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ [The entire original message is not included] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.91/2363 - Release Date: 09/11/09 09:15:00 -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
