Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
Peel back a few inches of jacket. Pull the drain wire back along the wire. Install connector with drain wire coming out the back. Ground the drain wire. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone know how you use shielded cat 5 when the radio's are all Tranzeo with their plastic Ethernet port??? Trying to solve a interference problem with some hams myself. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of jp Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Yep, use shielded ethernet cable and there won't be problems. Even use shielded indoors. Being they are not doing for money, the amatuer crowd is also somewhat apt to ignore OSHA and many of the modern safety concepts like fall protection. Unless you specify your safety requirements, you might see a guy up on your tower in an old bosuns chair with 30 year old rope, or perhaps an old pole climbing belt. I agree they could be a good folks to know and work with; they could be a good inside connection to lots of other towers and businesses. If you have any electrical and RF skills, it's not much work to get an amatuer radio license; read a book, take a couple classes, and take a test. Morse code is optional. At the very least, they'd feel better understood and some camraderie if you got a license. On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37:11AM -0400, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there is a lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never seen the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear. Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these ones your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may be your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone that gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road. Just my 2 cents, Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now? Thanks! Greg --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
Mike, I have many Rohn 25G, 45 55 towers with HAM operators on every one of them. I appreciate the fact that their gear (antennas) are made to take a lightning strike :-) Their DB222 antennas stuck out the top of my towers give me a false sense of security, but any security is better than none. I have also found that the HAM operators are very professional and generally fine folks. The only interference issues I have ever had is when the RB532 was emitting out of band emissions from the ethernet port in the 140Mhz range and did create a lot of trouble for us and them at all my sites owned and rented. Cover your ass and get a release of liability for those guys to climb your tower!! Mac -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now? Thanks! Greg -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.34/2462 - Release Date: 10/27/09 07:38:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there is a lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never seen the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear. Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these ones your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may be your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone that gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road. Just my 2 cents, Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now? Thanks! Greg --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
Mac: I guess we'll deal with any interference coming from my equipment as we need, my biggest fear is that the amateur signal may in some way interfere or degrade the bread and butter. Per my requirements, the dual-bander going up is DC grounded, and the coax will run down a tower leg where I don't have any cat5 running. I appreciate the heads up on the climbing liability. We have an hour to get the equipment ready, end crimped, and coax laid out before MY climber arrives. Regards, Mike At 08:34 AM 10/27/2009, you wrote: Mike, I have many Rohn 25G, 45 55 towers with HAM operators on every one of them. I appreciate the fact that their gear (antennas) are made to take a lightning strike :-) Their DB222 antennas stuck out the top of my towers give me a false sense of security, but any security is better than none. I have also found that the HAM operators are very professional and generally fine folks. The only interference issues I have ever had is when the RB532 was emitting out of band emissions from the ethernet port in the 140Mhz range and did create a lot of trouble for us and them at all my sites owned and rented. Cover your ass and get a release of liability for those guys to climb your tower!! Mac -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now? Thanks! Greg -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.34/2462 - Release Date: 10/27/09 07:38:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
Can you please explain 2 meter ham gear? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there is a lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never seen the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear. Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these ones your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may be your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone that gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road. Just my 2 cents, Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now? Thanks! Greg --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
Kurt: The 2 meter receive will come later if at all. I would like 2 inputs on the repeater in case we want to link one from another city in case SHTF and we need emergency links to Des Moines or Cedar Rapids. Since I am lumped into that different breed, I'll keep them corralled. One is the medical examiner, another a prominent attorney, so the good will this will generate is invaluable. Thanks for your input! Mike At 09:37 AM 10/27/2009, you wrote: In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there is a lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never seen the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear. Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these ones your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may be your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone that gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road. Just my 2 cents, Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now? Thanks! Greg --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
Josh: Amateur operators, besides talking world wide on HF frequencies, have primary allocations in various slots in the spectrum. Besides 440 (UHF) there is 144 MHz (2 meter VHF), and 220 MHz (VHF). 2 meter and 70 cm repeaters are common in the ham world. What happens is an operator is able to talk to the repeater on the input frequency, and the equipment transmits on another frequency. So, low powered hand held devices (or mobile devices) can talk a great distance with low power, THROUGH the repeater instead of station-to-station, which would be simplex. The repeater equipment we are using has a built-in cavity so the same coax and antenna can be used for transmit and receive at the same time. There is a 6MHz separation between transmit and receive frequencies. Mike At 12:29 PM 10/27/2009, you wrote: Can you please explain 2 meter ham gear? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there is a lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never seen the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear. Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these ones your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may be your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone that gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road. Just my 2 cents, Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now? Thanks! Greg - -- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - -- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
Depends on the band... For UHF 440 MHz, the split is usually 5 MHz (same as LMR in the UHF band). For VHF 144 MHz, the split in the US is 600 KHz (0.600 MHz). Typical voice channel bandwidth is under 20 KHz for wideband and less than 12.5 KHz for narrowband operation... A far cry from the 5 and 10 MHz channels of 802.11x operation :) On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Josh: Amateur operators, besides talking world wide on HF frequencies, have primary allocations in various slots in the spectrum. Besides 440 (UHF) there is 144 MHz (2 meter VHF), and 220 MHz (VHF). 2 meter and 70 cm repeaters are common in the ham world. What happens is an operator is able to talk to the repeater on the input frequency, and the equipment transmits on another frequency. So, low powered hand held devices (or mobile devices) can talk a great distance with low power, THROUGH the repeater instead of station-to-station, which would be simplex. The repeater equipment we are using has a built-in cavity so the same coax and antenna can be used for transmit and receive at the same time. There is a 6MHz separation between transmit and receive frequencies. Mike At 12:29 PM 10/27/2009, you wrote: Can you please explain 2 meter ham gear? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there is a lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never seen the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear. Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these ones your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may be your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone that gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road. Just my 2 cents, Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now? Thanks! Greg - -- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - -- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
Yes the split is 5, my fingers typed 6. The repeater frequency is 444.000 with a standard 5 MHz offset to 449.000. The tone will be 114.8. So, if you are ever driving down Hwy 30 between Cedar Rapids and Marshalltown, you are welcome to use it; it is an open repeater. At 12:42 PM 10/27/2009, you wrote: Depends on the band... For UHF 440 MHz, the split is usually 5 MHz (same as LMR in the UHF band). For VHF 144 MHz, the split in the US is 600 KHz (0.600 MHz). Typical voice channel bandwidth is under 20 KHz for wideband and less than 12.5 KHz for narrowband operation... A far cry from the 5 and 10 MHz channels of 802.11x operation :) On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Josh: Amateur operators, besides talking world wide on HF frequencies, have primary allocations in various slots in the spectrum. Besides 440 (UHF) there is 144 MHz (2 meter VHF), and 220 MHz (VHF). 2 meter and 70 cm repeaters are common in the ham world. What happens is an operator is able to talk to the repeater on the input frequency, and the equipment transmits on another frequency. So, low powered hand held devices (or mobile devices) can talk a great distance with low power, THROUGH the repeater instead of station-to-station, which would be simplex. The repeater equipment we are using has a built-in cavity so the same coax and antenna can be used for transmit and receive at the same time. There is a 6MHz separation between transmit and receive frequencies. Mike At 12:29 PM 10/27/2009, you wrote: Can you please explain 2 meter ham gear? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there is a lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never seen the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear. Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these ones your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may be your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone that gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road. Just my 2 cents, Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now? Thanks! Greg - -- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - -- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
Operates from 144 to 148 MHz. When you convert the frequency into "wavelength" you find that one wavelength is approximately 2 meters. jack Josh Luthman wrote: Can you please explain "2 meter ham gear"? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth." --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there is a lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never seen the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear. Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these ones your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may be your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone that gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road. Just my 2 cents, Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now? Thanks! Greg --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
That's what I was thinking and going to ask. Psychic you are. Thanks for the information each of you! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Operates from 144 to 148 MHz. When you convert the frequency into wavelength you find that one wavelength is approximately 2 meters. jack Josh Luthman wrote: Can you please explain 2 meter ham gear? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com k...@wavelinc.com wrote: In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there is a lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never seen the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear. Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these ones your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may be your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone that gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road. Just my 2 cents, Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now? Thanks! Greg --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
Awesome :) In our experience here where we own both the amateur and wireless network equipment. The best luck we've had was to use two separate metal enclosures, one for the ham, one for the network gear and ensure everything is bonded together. Initially we had issues as well with ethernet ports throwing spurs in the VHF band. All of the CAT5 was swapped to shielded CAT5 and the entire networking radio was encased in a metal subenclosure with the drain wire connected at the entry point. Knocked out all of the interference we were dealing with. Also, removed all of our spans of LMR400 going up the tower and replaced with Andrew LDF4 for the ham antenna; LMR400 has no business in duplex operation used with ham repeaters. Oh well, hard lesson learned about a decade ago. 444.750+ /147.080+ PL100.0 if you're in the Boise, Idaho area... On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Yes the split is 5, my fingers typed 6. The repeater frequency is 444.000 with a standard 5 MHz offset to 449.000. The tone will be 114.8. So, if you are ever driving down Hwy 30 between Cedar Rapids and Marshalltown, you are welcome to use it; it is an open repeater. At 12:42 PM 10/27/2009, you wrote: Depends on the band... For UHF 440 MHz, the split is usually 5 MHz (same as LMR in the UHF band). For VHF 144 MHz, the split in the US is 600 KHz (0.600 MHz). Typical voice channel bandwidth is under 20 KHz for wideband and less than 12.5 KHz for narrowband operation... A far cry from the 5 and 10 MHz channels of 802.11x operation :) On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Josh: Amateur operators, besides talking world wide on HF frequencies, have primary allocations in various slots in the spectrum. Besides 440 (UHF) there is 144 MHz (2 meter VHF), and 220 MHz (VHF). 2 meter and 70 cm repeaters are common in the ham world. What happens is an operator is able to talk to the repeater on the input frequency, and the equipment transmits on another frequency. So, low powered hand held devices (or mobile devices) can talk a great distance with low power, THROUGH the repeater instead of station-to-station, which would be simplex. The repeater equipment we are using has a built-in cavity so the same coax and antenna can be used for transmit and receive at the same time. There is a 6MHz separation between transmit and receive frequencies. Mike At 12:29 PM 10/27/2009, you wrote: Can you please explain 2 meter ham gear? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there is a lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never seen the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear. Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these ones your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may be your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone that gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road. Just my 2 cents, Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
Mike, I have had both 2m and 70cm repeaters (at the same time) on my main tower with no problems to the wireless. I have had tremendous problems with noise on vhf frequencies. I can take my 2m mobile and pull up close to a tower and start scanning the band and it will lock onto a frequency showing full scale on the meter but no one is using the frequency. There is just a high pitched squealing that comes from the radio. Most of the time the squelch will not even open but the s-meter will show almost full scale. I had a vhf fiberglass antenna mounted to the top of a 160ft tower right above my wireless gear and it would be worse that just a small mobile antenna in the shack. I could turn off the wireless equipment and the noise would go away. I knew the wireless was causing some kind of interference but I did not know what it was. I made sure I had all shielded cat5 cable and made sure it was grounded at the base of the tower. This did not make any difference. I used all metal enclosures for the wireless and make sure they are grounded. Nothing would get rid of the noise short of turning off the wireless. Oh, this problem is not constant. It shows up on multiple frequencies but not always on the same frequencies and not every day or not all day long. I figure is is digital spurious emissions from the wireless rf. So not problems to you, just possible problems for the Hams. LaRoy McCann , N5OHO Data Technology AJ wrote: Depends on the band... For UHF 440 MHz, the split is usually 5 MHz (same as LMR in the UHF band). For VHF 144 MHz, the split in the US is 600 KHz (0.600 MHz). Typical voice channel bandwidth is under 20 KHz for wideband and less than 12.5 KHz for narrowband operation... A far cry from the 5 and 10 MHz channels of 802.11x operation :) On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Josh: Amateur operators, besides talking world wide on HF frequencies, have primary allocations in various slots in the spectrum. Besides 440 (UHF) there is 144 MHz (2 meter VHF), and 220 MHz (VHF). 2 meter and 70 cm repeaters are common in the ham world. What happens is an operator is able to talk to the repeater on the input frequency, and the equipment transmits on another frequency. So, low powered hand held devices (or mobile devices) can talk a great distance with low power, THROUGH the repeater instead of station-to-station, which would be simplex. The repeater equipment we are using has a built-in cavity so the same coax and antenna can be used for transmit and receive at the same time. There is a 6MHz separation between transmit and receive frequencies. Mike At 12:29 PM 10/27/2009, you wrote: Can you please explain 2 meter ham gear? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there is a lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never seen the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear. Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these ones your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may be your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone that gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road. Just my 2 cents, Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
Uh, the split or seperation on two meters is .6 Mhz, not 6 mhz. Lots of simplex work on two meters also. We have lots of sites with both 440 and two meter gear co-existing with WISP's, with no interference issues either way. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Josh: Amateur operators, besides talking world wide on HF frequencies, have primary allocations in various slots in the spectrum. Besides 440 (UHF) there is 144 MHz (2 meter VHF), and 220 MHz (VHF). 2 meter and 70 cm repeaters are common in the ham world. What happens is an operator is able to talk to the repeater on the input frequency, and the equipment transmits on another frequency. So, low powered hand held devices (or mobile devices) can talk a great distance with low power, THROUGH the repeater instead of station-to-station, which would be simplex. The repeater equipment we are using has a built-in cavity so the same coax and antenna can be used for transmit and receive at the same time. There is a 6MHz separation between transmit and receive frequencies. Mike WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
Josh: Hadn't thought of your question in that way. Amateur radio operators traditionally refer to a band by wavelength instead of frequency. 160 Meters is 1.8 MHz 80 Meters is 3.5 MHz 40 Meters is 7 MHz 30 Meters is 10.1 MHz 20 Meters is 14 MHz 17 Meters is 18 MHz 15 Meters is 21 MHz 12 Meters is 24 MHz 10 Meters is 28 MHz or right above CB 6 Meters is 50 MHz 2 Meters is 144 MHz 1.25 Meters is 222 MHz 70 Centimeters is 420 MHz 33 Centimeter is 902 MHz 23 Centimeter is 1240 MHz This one might surprise you. Amateur radio operators are primary licensees at 2.3 GHz - 2.31 GHz, and 2.39 GHz - 2.45 GHz all mode, 1000 watts! 802.11b ch 1 is 2.401 GHz - 2.423 GHz or right in an amateur band. Part 15 rules state you can not cause interference to a licensed user, and MUST accept interference from a licensed user. I know of only a handful of disputes in this band historically. The rest of the ham bands go way on up from there, including 5650 - 5925, and can use ANY frequency above 275 GHz. Mike At 01:05 PM 10/27/2009, you wrote: Operates from 144 to 148 MHz. When you convert the frequency into wavelength you find that one wavelength is approximately 2 meters. jack Josh Luthman wrote: Can you please explain 2 meter ham gear? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Kurt Fankhauser mailto:k...@wavelinc.comk...@wavelinc.com wrote: In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there is a lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never seen the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear. Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these ones your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may be your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone that gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road. Just my 2 cents, Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 http://www.wavelinc.comwww.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.orgwireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now? Thanks! Greg --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: mailto:wireless@wispa.orgwireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelesshttp://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: mailto:wireless@wispa.orgwireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelesshttp://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: mailto:wireless@wispa.orgwireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
Thread stickied. Awesome information. Thanks again =) Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Josh: Hadn't thought of your question in that way. Amateur radio operators traditionally refer to a band by wavelength instead of frequency. 160 Meters is 1.8 MHz 80 Meters is 3.5 MHz 40 Meters is 7 MHz 30 Meters is 10.1 MHz 20 Meters is 14 MHz 17 Meters is 18 MHz 15 Meters is 21 MHz 12 Meters is 24 MHz 10 Meters is 28 MHz or right above CB 6 Meters is 50 MHz 2 Meters is 144 MHz 1.25 Meters is 222 MHz 70 Centimeters is 420 MHz 33 Centimeter is 902 MHz 23 Centimeter is 1240 MHz This one might surprise you. Amateur radio operators are primary licensees at 2.3 GHz - 2.31 GHz, and 2.39 GHz - 2.45 GHz all mode, 1000 watts! 802.11b ch 1 is 2.401 GHz - 2.423 GHz or right in an amateur band. Part 15 rules state you can not cause interference to a licensed user, and MUST accept interference from a licensed user. I know of only a handful of disputes in this band historically. The rest of the ham bands go way on up from there, including 5650 - 5925, and can use ANY frequency above 275 GHz. Mike At 01:05 PM 10/27/2009, you wrote: Operates from 144 to 148 MHz. When you convert the frequency into wavelength you find that one wavelength is approximately 2 meters. jack Josh Luthman wrote: Can you please explain 2 meter ham gear? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Kurt Fankhauser mailto:k...@wavelinc.comk...@wavelinc.com wrote: In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there is a lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never seen the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear. Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these ones your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may be your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone that gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road. Just my 2 cents, Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 http://www.wavelinc.comwww.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.orgwireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now? Thanks! Greg --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: mailto:wireless@wispa.orgwireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: mailto:wireless@wispa.orgwireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
2 meter refers to the wavelength like 440 MHz is 70 cm. 2 meters is 150 MHz. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 12:29 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Can you please explain 2 meter ham gear? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there is a lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never seen the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear. Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these ones your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may be your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone that gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road. Just my 2 cents, Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now? Thanks! Greg --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
A good rule of thumb is 300 MHz = 1 meter and they are inversely proportionate, so 150 MHz = 2 meter and 600 MHz = 0.5 meter. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Jack Unger Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 1:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Operates from 144 to 148 MHz. When you convert the frequency into wavelength you find that one wavelength is approximately 2 meters. jack Josh Luthman wrote: Can you please explain 2 meter ham gear? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there is a lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never seen the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear. Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these ones your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may be your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone that gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road. Just my 2 cents, Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now? Thanks! Greg --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
Now if only I had my radio anymore... oh, and I got off my butt and got a license. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 12:55 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Yes the split is 5, my fingers typed 6. The repeater frequency is 444.000 with a standard 5 MHz offset to 449.000. The tone will be 114.8. So, if you are ever driving down Hwy 30 between Cedar Rapids and Marshalltown, you are welcome to use it; it is an open repeater. At 12:42 PM 10/27/2009, you wrote: Depends on the band... For UHF 440 MHz, the split is usually 5 MHz (same as LMR in the UHF band). For VHF 144 MHz, the split in the US is 600 KHz (0.600 MHz). Typical voice channel bandwidth is under 20 KHz for wideband and less than 12.5 KHz for narrowband operation... A far cry from the 5 and 10 MHz channels of 802.11x operation :) On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Josh: Amateur operators, besides talking world wide on HF frequencies, have primary allocations in various slots in the spectrum. Besides 440 (UHF) there is 144 MHz (2 meter VHF), and 220 MHz (VHF). 2 meter and 70 cm repeaters are common in the ham world. What happens is an operator is able to talk to the repeater on the input frequency, and the equipment transmits on another frequency. So, low powered hand held devices (or mobile devices) can talk a great distance with low power, THROUGH the repeater instead of station-to-station, which would be simplex. The repeater equipment we are using has a built-in cavity so the same coax and antenna can be used for transmit and receive at the same time. There is a 6MHz separation between transmit and receive frequencies. Mike At 12:29 PM 10/27/2009, you wrote: Can you please explain 2 meter ham gear? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there is a lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never seen the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear. Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these ones your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may be your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone that gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road. Just my 2 cents, Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now? Thanks! Greg - -- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - -- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
IF there is a MTR2000 Motorola repeater in the building, it is an easily fixed issue that M knows about. Idle Freq needs to be changed. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Data Technology w...@dtisp.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Mike, I have had both 2m and 70cm repeaters (at the same time) on my main tower with no problems to the wireless. I have had tremendous problems with noise on vhf frequencies. I can take my 2m mobile and pull up close to a tower and start scanning the band and it will lock onto a frequency showing full scale on the meter but no one is using the frequency. There is just a high pitched WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
Yep, use shielded ethernet cable and there won't be problems. Even use shielded indoors. Being they are not doing for money, the amatuer crowd is also somewhat apt to ignore OSHA and many of the modern safety concepts like fall protection. Unless you specify your safety requirements, you might see a guy up on your tower in an old bosuns chair with 30 year old rope, or perhaps an old pole climbing belt. I agree they could be a good folks to know and work with; they could be a good inside connection to lots of other towers and businesses. If you have any electrical and RF skills, it's not much work to get an amatuer radio license; read a book, take a couple classes, and take a test. Morse code is optional. At the very least, they'd feel better understood and some camraderie if you got a license. On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37:11AM -0400, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there is a lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never seen the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear. Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these ones your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may be your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone that gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road. Just my 2 cents, Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now? Thanks! Greg --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
Good for you! The repeater is up. I see no issues with ping times to key customers while the transmitter is running. I will continue to monitor it very closely. Thanks all for your hints and input. The control OP lives in town, about 4.5 miles away. He is almost full quieting with a little Vertec 500 mw HT. He is full quieting at 1 watt, with it plugged in. Anybody have an old preamp sitting in a box? 70 cm? I think we need to try turning off the input tone and leave it transmit a tone. I think it would make it more user friendly for some of us old eyed gents. It's not like there are a BUNCH of 70 cm repeaters in Central Iowa. We ran coax down a tower leg not holding CAT5. The standoff is made from a pair of those nice ball socket panel mounts back-to-back. The top is lassoed with a wire loop inside a piece of 1.25 architectural square building stock. That piece is lashed to the tower with stainless hose clamps. Should keep it from whipping in the wind. Mike At 02:01 PM 10/27/2009, you wrote: Now if only I had my radio anymore... oh, and I got off my butt and got a license. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 12:55 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Yes the split is 5, my fingers typed 6. The repeater frequency is 444.000 with a standard 5 MHz offset to 449.000. The tone will be 114.8. So, if you are ever driving down Hwy 30 between Cedar Rapids and Marshalltown, you are welcome to use it; it is an open repeater. At 12:42 PM 10/27/2009, you wrote: Depends on the band... For UHF 440 MHz, the split is usually 5 MHz (same as LMR in the UHF band). For VHF 144 MHz, the split in the US is 600 KHz (0.600 MHz). Typical voice channel bandwidth is under 20 KHz for wideband and less than 12.5 KHz for narrowband operation... A far cry from the 5 and 10 MHz channels of 802.11x operation :) On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Josh: Amateur operators, besides talking world wide on HF frequencies, have primary allocations in various slots in the spectrum. Besides 440 (UHF) there is 144 MHz (2 meter VHF), and 220 MHz (VHF). 2 meter and 70 cm repeaters are common in the ham world. What happens is an operator is able to talk to the repeater on the input frequency, and the equipment transmits on another frequency. So, low powered hand held devices (or mobile devices) can talk a great distance with low power, THROUGH the repeater instead of station-to-station, which would be simplex. The repeater equipment we are using has a built-in cavity so the same coax and antenna can be used for transmit and receive at the same time. There is a 6MHz separation between transmit and receive frequencies. Mike At 12:29 PM 10/27/2009, you wrote: Can you please explain 2 meter ham gear? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there is a lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never seen the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear. Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these ones your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may be your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone that gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road. Just my 2 cents, Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap
Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
Does anyone know how you use shielded cat 5 when the radio's are all Tranzeo with their plastic Ethernet port??? Trying to solve a interference problem with some hams myself. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of jp Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Yep, use shielded ethernet cable and there won't be problems. Even use shielded indoors. Being they are not doing for money, the amatuer crowd is also somewhat apt to ignore OSHA and many of the modern safety concepts like fall protection. Unless you specify your safety requirements, you might see a guy up on your tower in an old bosuns chair with 30 year old rope, or perhaps an old pole climbing belt. I agree they could be a good folks to know and work with; they could be a good inside connection to lots of other towers and businesses. If you have any electrical and RF skills, it's not much work to get an amatuer radio license; read a book, take a couple classes, and take a test. Morse code is optional. At the very least, they'd feel better understood and some camraderie if you got a license. On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37:11AM -0400, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there is a lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never seen the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear. Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these ones your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may be your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone that gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road. Just my 2 cents, Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas? Wispers: I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat. It has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes. We want to install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio. The dual band antenna feed point will be at 120'. It is 17' long. There is no microwave equipment below 160'. I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way, but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers. Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio cards? I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate frequencies. Gotchas? Hints? Comments? Thanks! Mike G At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote: My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now? Thanks! Greg --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
