Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco Code Version

2017-08-02 Thread Joachim Tingvold 

On 1 Aug 2017, at 17:33, Ciesinski, Nick wrote:
While WLC 8.5 did add IPSK it is probably safe to say its rather 
worthless for most at this time.  For those who have used ISE if you 
watch the video on how they make IPSK work it isn’t feasible to give 
each of your users their own PSK key to connect to wireless.  The 
current implementation within ISE required no feature additions to ISE 
to make it work.  All they do is have a rule to classify a device 
and/or user and then send a particular PSK value that it should be 
using.  This is a 100% manual process  for each device and/or user as 
nothing is baked into ISE to have a user register their account or 
device(s) and be presented a PSK to use.


IPSK *and* ISE might be "worthless" when combined, but IPSK in it self 
is not (even in it's current implementation). The limitations you're 
talking about is purely with ISE, and not IPSK.


We use ClearPass, and we can easily query an SQL-server with MAC<->PSK 
mappings, yielding unique PSKs based on MAC-adresses. This SQL DB could 
be fed via whatever systems that already exists (CMDB or whatnot), or 
you could spend an hour making a simple web-frontend.


The only thing holding us back upgrading to 8.5 "right away" (only to 
get IPSK) is the same concern Lee has; not touching it until MR3 or 
similar, purely for stability reasons (-:


--
Joachim

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

Web GUI unresponsive after HTTPS-redirect enabled

2017-08-02 Thread Bibin George 
Im running 8.2.160 on 8540, does anyone hit this bug yet?
Terrible response from the management GUI.

https://bst.cloudapps.cisco.com/bugsearch/bug/CSCvc00271/?referring_site=bugquickviewredir



**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

2017-08-02 Thread Carlton, Rick 
We made multiple changes for a test device, so not claiming that the public IP 
was the fix, but one of the modifications.  We haven't had any trouble reports 
until last week (maybe it was a slow summer).  We've kicked the ticket over to 
our Net Sec team to dig into it further.  I suspect it is around a different 
treatment of private IP vs public IP and security at our perimeter.
Thanks,
Rick

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter P Morrissey
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 10:08 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

Hmm. So I wonder how these things would work on a home network which is just 
about guaranteed to not have a public IP?

Pete

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Carlton, Rick
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 10:44 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

We currently have an open SSID, so authentication and network access is not the 
issue.  The challenge is around the use of P2P.  So far, the only 
fix/workaround is to give the device a public IP (which we don't currently 
support) with open internet access (which security won't support).
Rick

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Adams (IT)
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:34 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

What challenges have you experienced with the Nintendo Switch? Dot1x support?

Thanks,

Chris Adams, CISSP

Assistant CIO, Network & Telecom
Division of Information Technology
University of North Georgia
E-Mail: chris.ad...@ung.edu | Office: (706) 867-2891

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Carlton, Rick
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 10:23 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

One of the more challenging devices so far is the Nintendo Switch.
Rick

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Reimer
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:19 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

We've gotten a request about wifi enabled wall outlets in residence halls for 
controlling connected appliances and metering power usage.

-Paul Reimer

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter P Morrissey
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:37 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

"The most interesting new device to show up so
far as been a Ring Doorbell system. "

Never would of thought of that one! I guess knocking is just so 2008.

Pete

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Davis
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 8:14 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

We're just starting to see some of the early groups start showing up on campus.
The early trends seem to be Amazon Echo/Dots and Google Home systems, among
the ever growing trend of Smart TVs.  The most interesting new device to show 
up so
far as been a Ring Doorbell system.

thanks
mike

On 7/31/17 4:39 PM, Peter P Morrissey wrote:
Wondering if anyone has noticed any new trends in popular wireless devices that 
we might expect returning students to want to connect in their residences when 
they return?

Not being a gamer, this one was new to me. It apparently streams games on 
running on your laptop to your TV over a WiFi connection and also provides 
input for controllers. Seems like something that could use up a bit of 
bandwidth. The good news is that it appears to support 11ac.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/353380/Steam_Link/

Pete Morrissey


** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco Code Version

2017-08-02 Thread Lee H Badman 
Well said, Jake.

Lee Badman | Network Architect

Certified Wireless Network Expert (#200)
Information Technology Services
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244
t 315.443.3003   f 315.443.4325   e lhbad...@syr.edu w 
its.syr.edu
SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
syr.edu

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jake Snyder
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2017 11:24 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco Code Version

One of the things as a partner I try to educate customers on is “who is 
recommending what, and why.”

My experience has been that the BU is trying to drive feature adoption, sell 
APs and controllers.  That’s why they exist, so don’t fault them for it.  They 
tend to recommend new APs, new versions of code and new features.  Why?  
Because they are in the business of selling.

Tac is all about which code results in defects are going to generate the least 
amount of tickets, and hopefully that means more stability.

As a partner I try to ride the line.  I tend to determine a customer’s appetite 
for risk, longevity, their market and their staff capability. This puts them 
into 3 buckets: proven technology only, moderate, and bleeding edge.  I’m 
accountable if I recommend something and it doesn’t work well, so I tend to be 
more conservative.  Bleeding edge gets you further in a lifecycle if equipment, 
but you better be prepared to deal with some bugs in the short term.

And I sit down and talk with them about why I feel they should be buying and 
operating in the bucket that makes sense for them.  Ultimately they make the 
buying decision.  Sometimes things bite me, it happens.  But it happens less 
and less over time.

For those of you who are feeling the pain, somehow you are listening to the 
wrong folks, buying outside the bucket that fits your org, or the person 
helping you with that decision is looking at things in a way that doesn’t align 
with your business.

Having the relationship with the BU is important.  Know how to work with Tac 
and having a trusted partner is also important.  And ultimately the you, the 
customer gets to make that decision on where and how you go.
Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 2, 2017, at 8:54 AM, Jeffrey D. Sessler 
> wrote:
Lee,

I can only speak to my experience, and in the case of the x800 series, we were 
a first-customer-ship and had them in production in Aug 2016. I ran into a few 
bugs, mostly stuck radios, but with direct engagement with the BU, I was 
getting code fixes (or viable workarounds) within hours. I was also having 
weekly meetings with the BU engineering team, and my local SE and SE manager 
were on top of it. I have a similar relationship with the PI team, although PI 
has been solid for me for a long time, and I use the channel mostly for 
enhancement requests.

For the size of your deployment, I’d pursue the same direct relationship with 
the BU. As customers, we can either say to Cisco, “Hey, you have mind reading 
skills so figure it out” or, we can engage directly in an attempt to make the 
product better. I choose the later since I know how complex these systems are 
and I’d rather do my part to improve the product.

On the feature side, I divide items into “essentials” and “fluff”, and I put 
AVC in the “fluff” category. Yes, it’s nice to have, but I can get this 
information from other sources and it’s not necessary to provide the base 
service i.e. I leave the controllers dedicated to the essentials. I suspect a 
lot of customers do the same, so there isn’t the same amount of 
testing/feedback on that feature – thanks for the 400 hours dedicated to fixing 
it. Additionally, on the development bug-resolution front, if I was Cisco, I’d 
prioritize fixing the essentials over the fluff. On the positive side, with the 
AVC off-load features in the new WAPs, controllers should do much better with 
AVC moving forward.

Someday I’d love to compare notes. Somehow, we seem to be dating the same girl, 
yet she’s totally different when she’s with me vs when she’s with you. Maybe a 
nice box of chocolates is in order? LOL ;-)

Jeff



From: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
> 
on behalf of "lhbad...@syr.edu" 
>
Reply-To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
>
Date: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 6:04 AM
To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco Code Version

I value what Jeff is

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco Code Version

2017-08-02 Thread Jake Snyder 
One of the things as a partner I try to educate customers on is “who is 
recommending what, and why.”

My experience has been that the BU is trying to drive feature adoption, sell 
APs and controllers.  That’s why they exist, so don’t fault them for it.  They 
tend to recommend new APs, new versions of code and new features.  Why?  
Because they are in the business of selling.

Tac is all about which code results in defects are going to generate the least 
amount of tickets, and hopefully that means more stability.

As a partner I try to ride the line.  I tend to determine a customer’s appetite 
for risk, longevity, their market and their staff capability. This puts them 
into 3 buckets: proven technology only, moderate, and bleeding edge.  I’m 
accountable if I recommend something and it doesn’t work well, so I tend to be 
more conservative.  Bleeding edge gets you further in a lifecycle if equipment, 
but you better be prepared to deal with some bugs in the short term.

And I sit down and talk with them about why I feel they should be buying and 
operating in the bucket that makes sense for them.  Ultimately they make the 
buying decision.  Sometimes things bite me, it happens.  But it happens less 
and less over time.

For those of you who are feeling the pain, somehow you are listening to the 
wrong folks, buying outside the bucket that fits your org, or the person 
helping you with that decision is looking at things in a way that doesn’t align 
with your business.

Having the relationship with the BU is important.  Know how to work with Tac 
and having a trusted partner is also important.  And ultimately the you, the 
customer gets to make that decision on where and how you go.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 2, 2017, at 8:54 AM, Jeffrey D. Sessler  
> wrote:
> 
> Lee,
>  
> I can only speak to my experience, and in the case of the x800 series, we 
> were a first-customer-ship and had them in production in Aug 2016. I ran into 
> a few bugs, mostly stuck radios, but with direct engagement with the BU, I 
> was getting code fixes (or viable workarounds) within hours. I was also 
> having weekly meetings with the BU engineering team, and my local SE and SE 
> manager were on top of it. I have a similar relationship with the PI team, 
> although PI has been solid for me for a long time, and I use the channel 
> mostly for enhancement requests.
>  
> For the size of your deployment, I’d pursue the same direct relationship with 
> the BU. As customers, we can either say to Cisco, “Hey, you have mind reading 
> skills so figure it out” or, we can engage directly in an attempt to make the 
> product better. I choose the later since I know how complex these systems are 
> and I’d rather do my part to improve the product.
>  
> On the feature side, I divide items into “essentials” and “fluff”, and I put 
> AVC in the “fluff” category. Yes, it’s nice to have, but I can get this 
> information from other sources and it’s not necessary to provide the base 
> service i.e. I leave the controllers dedicated to the essentials. I suspect a 
> lot of customers do the same, so there isn’t the same amount of 
> testing/feedback on that feature – thanks for the 400 hours dedicated to 
> fixing it. Additionally, on the development bug-resolution front, if I was 
> Cisco, I’d prioritize fixing the essentials over the fluff. On the positive 
> side, with the AVC off-load features in the new WAPs, controllers should do 
> much better with AVC moving forward.
>  
> Someday I’d love to compare notes. Somehow, we seem to be dating the same 
> girl, yet she’s totally different when she’s with me vs when she’s with you. 
> Maybe a nice box of chocolates is in order? LOL ;-)
>  
> Jeff
>  
>  
>  
> From: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
>  on behalf of "lhbad...@syr.edu" 
> 
> Reply-To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
> 
> Date: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 6:04 AM
> To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco Code Version
>  
> I value what Jeff is doing with Beta, but also have to agree with James. 
> Universities might be different- but we’re not THAT different that 
> controllers and APs should crumble after all these years and generations of 
> vendor offerings. I find code updates can be problematic, too many APs dump 
> back to factory defaults, etc. And we’ve been particularly burned by:
>  
> 8510s did not live up to spec when running AVC
> 8540s gave great results with AVC, to a certain code version, then it failed 
> hard. 400+ TAC/engineering hours (and at least three “now try THIS code” go 
> rounds) later, we stopped using AVC.  Couldn’t go back to the code that used 
> to work because it didn’t support the APs we were now using.
> Too many TAC cases drag on far too long for both PI and WLC
> The assumption is that you will

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco Code Version

2017-08-02 Thread Lee H Badman 
I think one area where we may have philosophical differences is in how much 
time a vendor relationship should require. We are a small, hopefully 
well-trained and experienced team that accomplishes a lot. We try to choose 
COTS solutions that don’t require a lot of admin overhead. The depth of your 
engagement as described equals a fair amount of OpEx- the hours spent working 
for Cisco are hours not spent elsewhere. If you’re staffed for it and have the 
time, I can see where essentially being auxiliary Cisco QA staff would work. 
It’s always better to be chummy than to feel like a whipping boy.

We try to be good partners when it comes time for support cases and feature 
requests, etc. We contribute to a number of NDA feedback sessions on product 
development, and all that- But a cordial relationship (for me) does not 
exonerate the shipping gear from needing to be solid out of the box- it’s not 
open source, after all.

I have to disagree on AVC. One man’s fluff may be another man’s requirement. If 
the vendor markets it as a feature, then it’s a feature. We had operational 
reasons to use AVC, and I can’t buy into Cisco getting a free pass on its 
inadequacies.  If it’s on the data sheet, it’s expected to work. Otherwise, the 
only answer is for Cisco- not you or I or The Muffin Man- to classify what’s 
essential and what’s fluff.

I promise the vendor doesn’t have to read my mind- we work with them on every 
pain point we hit, but at times we have to take control of the situation when 
the engagement runs too long or gets too negatively impactful.

Different perspectives… it’s all good.

-Lee



Lee Badman | Network Architect

Certified Wireless Network Expert (#200)
Information Technology Services
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244
t 315.443.3003   f 315.443.4325   e lhbad...@syr.edu w 
its.syr.edu
SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
syr.edu

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2017 10:55 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco Code Version

Lee,

I can only speak to my experience, and in the case of the x800 series, we were 
a first-customer-ship and had them in production in Aug 2016. I ran into a few 
bugs, mostly stuck radios, but with direct engagement with the BU, I was 
getting code fixes (or viable workarounds) within hours. I was also having 
weekly meetings with the BU engineering team, and my local SE and SE manager 
were on top of it. I have a similar relationship with the PI team, although PI 
has been solid for me for a long time, and I use the channel mostly for 
enhancement requests.

For the size of your deployment, I’d pursue the same direct relationship with 
the BU. As customers, we can either say to Cisco, “Hey, you have mind reading 
skills so figure it out” or, we can engage directly in an attempt to make the 
product better. I choose the later since I know how complex these systems are 
and I’d rather do my part to improve the product.

On the feature side, I divide items into “essentials” and “fluff”, and I put 
AVC in the “fluff” category. Yes, it’s nice to have, but I can get this 
information from other sources and it’s not necessary to provide the base 
service i.e. I leave the controllers dedicated to the essentials. I suspect a 
lot of customers do the same, so there isn’t the same amount of 
testing/feedback on that feature – thanks for the 400 hours dedicated to fixing 
it. Additionally, on the development bug-resolution front, if I was Cisco, I’d 
prioritize fixing the essentials over the fluff. On the positive side, with the 
AVC off-load features in the new WAPs, controllers should do much better with 
AVC moving forward.

Someday I’d love to compare notes. Somehow, we seem to be dating the same girl, 
yet she’s totally different when she’s with me vs when she’s with you. Maybe a 
nice box of chocolates is in order? LOL ;-)

Jeff



From: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
> 
on behalf of "lhbad...@syr.edu" 
>
Reply-To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
>
Date: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 6:04 AM
To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco Code Version

I value what Jeff is doing with Beta, but also have to agree with James. 
Universities might be different- but we’re not THAT different that controllers 
and APs should crumble after all these years and generations of vendor 
offerings. I find code

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

2017-08-02 Thread Samuel Clements 
In my environment (Cisco, WLC based, wave 2 APs, local mode) I have
Nintendo Switches that work just fine behind NAT'd addresses (as an FYI).
  -Sam

On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 10:07 AM, Peter P Morrissey  wrote:

> Hmm. So I wonder how these things would work on a home network which is
> just about guaranteed to not have a public IP?
>
>
>
> Pete
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Carlton, Rick
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 2, 2017 10:44 AM
>
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices
>
>
>
> We currently have an open SSID, so authentication and network access is
> not the issue.  The challenge is around the use of P2P.  So far, the only
> fix/workaround is to give the device a public IP (which we don’t currently
> support) with open internet access (which security won’t support).
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [
> mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> ] *On Behalf Of *Chris Adams (IT)
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:34 AM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices
>
>
>
> What challenges have you experienced with the Nintendo Switch? Dot1x
> support?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Chris Adams, CISSP
>
>
>
> Assistant CIO, Network & Telecom
>
> Division of Information Technology
>
> University of North Georgia
>
> E-Mail: chris.ad...@ung.edu | Office: (706) 867-2891
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [
> mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> ] *On Behalf Of *Carlton, Rick
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 2, 2017 10:23 AM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices
>
>
>
> One of the more challenging devices so far is the Nintendo Switch.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [
> mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> ] *On Behalf Of *Paul Reimer
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:19 AM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices
>
>
>
> We’ve gotten a request about wifi enabled wall outlets in residence halls
> for controlling connected appliances and metering power usage.
>
>
>
> -Paul Reimer
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [
> mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> ] *On Behalf Of *Peter P Morrissey
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:37 AM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices
>
>
>
> “The most interesting new device to show up so
> far as been a Ring Doorbell system. “
>
>
>
> Never would of thought of that one! I guess knocking is just so 2008.
>
>
>
> Pete
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [
> mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> ] *On Behalf Of *Michael Davis
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 1, 2017 8:14 AM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices
>
>
>
> We're just starting to see some of the early groups start showing up on
> campus.
> The early trends seem to be Amazon Echo/Dots and Google Home systems,
> among
> the ever growing trend of Smart TVs.  The most interesting new device to
> show up so
> far as been a Ring Doorbell system.
>
> thanks
> mike
>
> On 7/31/17 4:39 PM, Peter P Morrissey wrote:
>
> Wondering if anyone has noticed any new trends in popular wireless devices
> that we might expect returning students to want to connect in their
> residences when they return?
>
>
>
> Not being a gamer, this one was new to me. It apparently streams games on
> running on your laptop to your TV over a WiFi connection and also provides
> input for controllers. Seems like something that could use up a bit of
> bandwidth. The good news is that it appears to support 11ac.
>
>
>
> http://store.steampowered.com/app/353380/Steam_Link/
> 
>
>
>
> Pete Morrissey
>
>
>
>
>
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/
> discuss
>

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

2017-08-02 Thread Peter P Morrissey 
Hmm. So I wonder how these things would work on a home network which is just 
about guaranteed to not have a public IP?

Pete

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Carlton, Rick
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 10:44 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

We currently have an open SSID, so authentication and network access is not the 
issue.  The challenge is around the use of P2P.  So far, the only 
fix/workaround is to give the device a public IP (which we don't currently 
support) with open internet access (which security won't support).
Rick

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Adams (IT)
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:34 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

What challenges have you experienced with the Nintendo Switch? Dot1x support?

Thanks,

Chris Adams, CISSP

Assistant CIO, Network & Telecom
Division of Information Technology
University of North Georgia
E-Mail: chris.ad...@ung.edu | Office: (706) 867-2891

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Carlton, Rick
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 10:23 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

One of the more challenging devices so far is the Nintendo Switch.
Rick

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Reimer
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:19 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

We've gotten a request about wifi enabled wall outlets in residence halls for 
controlling connected appliances and metering power usage.

-Paul Reimer

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter P Morrissey
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:37 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

"The most interesting new device to show up so
far as been a Ring Doorbell system. "

Never would of thought of that one! I guess knocking is just so 2008.

Pete

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Davis
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 8:14 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

We're just starting to see some of the early groups start showing up on campus.
The early trends seem to be Amazon Echo/Dots and Google Home systems, among
the ever growing trend of Smart TVs.  The most interesting new device to show 
up so
far as been a Ring Doorbell system.

thanks
mike

On 7/31/17 4:39 PM, Peter P Morrissey wrote:
Wondering if anyone has noticed any new trends in popular wireless devices that 
we might expect returning students to want to connect in their residences when 
they return?

Not being a gamer, this one was new to me. It apparently streams games on 
running on your laptop to your TV over a WiFi connection and also provides 
input for controllers. Seems like something that could use up a bit of 
bandwidth. The good news is that it appears to support 11ac.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/353380/Steam_Link/

Pete Morrissey


** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco Code Version

2017-08-02 Thread Jeffrey D. Sessler 
Lee,

I can only speak to my experience, and in the case of the x800 series, we were 
a first-customer-ship and had them in production in Aug 2016. I ran into a few 
bugs, mostly stuck radios, but with direct engagement with the BU, I was 
getting code fixes (or viable workarounds) within hours. I was also having 
weekly meetings with the BU engineering team, and my local SE and SE manager 
were on top of it. I have a similar relationship with the PI team, although PI 
has been solid for me for a long time, and I use the channel mostly for 
enhancement requests.

For the size of your deployment, I’d pursue the same direct relationship with 
the BU. As customers, we can either say to Cisco, “Hey, you have mind reading 
skills so figure it out” or, we can engage directly in an attempt to make the 
product better. I choose the later since I know how complex these systems are 
and I’d rather do my part to improve the product.

On the feature side, I divide items into “essentials” and “fluff”, and I put 
AVC in the “fluff” category. Yes, it’s nice to have, but I can get this 
information from other sources and it’s not necessary to provide the base 
service i.e. I leave the controllers dedicated to the essentials. I suspect a 
lot of customers do the same, so there isn’t the same amount of 
testing/feedback on that feature – thanks for the 400 hours dedicated to fixing 
it. Additionally, on the development bug-resolution front, if I was Cisco, I’d 
prioritize fixing the essentials over the fluff. On the positive side, with the 
AVC off-load features in the new WAPs, controllers should do much better with 
AVC moving forward.

Someday I’d love to compare notes. Somehow, we seem to be dating the same girl, 
yet she’s totally different when she’s with me vs when she’s with you. Maybe a 
nice box of chocolates is in order? LOL ;-)

Jeff



From: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu"  
on behalf of "lhbad...@syr.edu" 
Reply-To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 

Date: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 6:04 AM
To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco Code Version

I value what Jeff is doing with Beta, but also have to agree with James. 
Universities might be different- but we’re not THAT different that controllers 
and APs should crumble after all these years and generations of vendor 
offerings. I find code updates can be problematic, too many APs dump back to 
factory defaults, etc. And we’ve been particularly burned by:


  *   8510s did not live up to spec when running AVC
  *   8540s gave great results with AVC, to a certain code version, then it 
failed hard. 400+ TAC/engineering hours (and at least three “now try THIS code” 
go rounds) later, we stopped using AVC.  Couldn’t go back to the code that used 
to work because it didn’t support the APs we were now using.
  *   Too many TAC cases drag on far too long for both PI and WLC
  *   The assumption is that you will leave your network in duress- possibly 
impacting thousands of customers- during lengthy debugs
  *   Too many problems happen only at large scale, so even lab-testing doesn’t 
find them first
  *   Too many escalation builds
  *   Code out there for download that really ought to have warnings about its 
use
  *   Mixed messages from SEs, TAC, and Cisco partners on what code can be 
trusted or not

If colleges/universities are so challenging, seems like Cisco should have a 
design guide by now that incorporates the differences to head off the problems. 
And if large-scale networks are problematic, then the recommendation should be 
to reduce large networks to multiple small ones using smaller controllers. 
Whatever the case, we’ve had countless cycles of hearing contrition (“yes, we 
need to do better on our code bugs.. and we will!”) but it never seems to get 
there.  The 3800 rollout was a debacle- these awesome APs were overshadowed by 
poor code for almost a full year before there was code that you could actually 
take a chance on. Cisco isn’t a start-up, and it just feels like either AireOS 
was never that good, or somebody is way too eager to bloat it up with endless 
features at the expense of stability.

At my end, the overarching philosophy is Stability Above All, because we’re 
years into the WLAN being a critical resource. It just feels like that isn’t 
really embraced by the vendor.

Like with the early days of the 3800 AP, it would be nice to be able to look 
forward at Fabric-Enabled Whatever and actually be impressed and excited. But 
when we’re juggling constant WLC/AP bugs, features we can’t use because they 
break and no one can figure out why, the perception of a development culture 
that isn’t doing much to improve the bug front, and recently an increase in 
switch/PoE bugs, it’s really hard to get enthused about adding APIs into 
components that already have long-running

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

2017-08-02 Thread Carlton, Rick 
We currently have an open SSID, so authentication and network access is not the 
issue.  The challenge is around the use of P2P.  So far, the only 
fix/workaround is to give the device a public IP (which we don't currently 
support) with open internet access (which security won't support).
Rick

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Adams (IT)
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:34 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

What challenges have you experienced with the Nintendo Switch? Dot1x support?

Thanks,

Chris Adams, CISSP

Assistant CIO, Network & Telecom
Division of Information Technology
University of North Georgia
E-Mail: chris.ad...@ung.edu | Office: (706) 867-2891

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Carlton, Rick
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 10:23 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

One of the more challenging devices so far is the Nintendo Switch.
Rick

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Reimer
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:19 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

We've gotten a request about wifi enabled wall outlets in residence halls for 
controlling connected appliances and metering power usage.

-Paul Reimer

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter P Morrissey
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:37 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

"The most interesting new device to show up so
far as been a Ring Doorbell system. "

Never would of thought of that one! I guess knocking is just so 2008.

Pete

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Davis
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 8:14 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

We're just starting to see some of the early groups start showing up on campus.
The early trends seem to be Amazon Echo/Dots and Google Home systems, among
the ever growing trend of Smart TVs.  The most interesting new device to show 
up so
far as been a Ring Doorbell system.

thanks
mike

On 7/31/17 4:39 PM, Peter P Morrissey wrote:
Wondering if anyone has noticed any new trends in popular wireless devices that 
we might expect returning students to want to connect in their residences when 
they return?

Not being a gamer, this one was new to me. It apparently streams games on 
running on your laptop to your TV over a WiFi connection and also provides 
input for controllers. Seems like something that could use up a bit of 
bandwidth. The good news is that it appears to support 11ac.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/353380/Steam_Link/

Pete Morrissey


** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

2017-08-02 Thread Chris Adams (IT) 
What challenges have you experienced with the Nintendo Switch? Dot1x support?

Thanks,

Chris Adams, CISSP

Assistant CIO, Network & Telecom
Division of Information Technology
University of North Georgia
E-Mail: chris.ad...@ung.edu | Office: (706) 867-2891

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Carlton, Rick
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 10:23 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

One of the more challenging devices so far is the Nintendo Switch.
Rick

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Reimer
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:19 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

We've gotten a request about wifi enabled wall outlets in residence halls for 
controlling connected appliances and metering power usage.

-Paul Reimer

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter P Morrissey
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:37 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

"The most interesting new device to show up so
far as been a Ring Doorbell system. "

Never would of thought of that one! I guess knocking is just so 2008.

Pete

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Davis
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 8:14 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

We're just starting to see some of the early groups start showing up on campus.
The early trends seem to be Amazon Echo/Dots and Google Home systems, among
the ever growing trend of Smart TVs.  The most interesting new device to show 
up so
far as been a Ring Doorbell system.

thanks
mike

On 7/31/17 4:39 PM, Peter P Morrissey wrote:
Wondering if anyone has noticed any new trends in popular wireless devices that 
we might expect returning students to want to connect in their residences when 
they return?

Not being a gamer, this one was new to me. It apparently streams games on 
running on your laptop to your TV over a WiFi connection and also provides 
input for controllers. Seems like something that could use up a bit of 
bandwidth. The good news is that it appears to support 11ac.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/353380/Steam_Link/

Pete Morrissey


** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

2017-08-02 Thread Carlton, Rick 
One of the more challenging devices so far is the Nintendo Switch.
Rick

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Reimer
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:19 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

We've gotten a request about wifi enabled wall outlets in residence halls for 
controlling connected appliances and metering power usage.

-Paul Reimer

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter P Morrissey
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:37 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

"The most interesting new device to show up so
far as been a Ring Doorbell system. "

Never would of thought of that one! I guess knocking is just so 2008.

Pete

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Davis
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 8:14 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

We're just starting to see some of the early groups start showing up on campus.
The early trends seem to be Amazon Echo/Dots and Google Home systems, among
the ever growing trend of Smart TVs.  The most interesting new device to show 
up so
far as been a Ring Doorbell system.

thanks
mike

On 7/31/17 4:39 PM, Peter P Morrissey wrote:
Wondering if anyone has noticed any new trends in popular wireless devices that 
we might expect returning students to want to connect in their residences when 
they return?

Not being a gamer, this one was new to me. It apparently streams games on 
running on your laptop to your TV over a WiFi connection and also provides 
input for controllers. Seems like something that could use up a bit of 
bandwidth. The good news is that it appears to support 11ac.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/353380/Steam_Link/

Pete Morrissey


** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

2017-08-02 Thread Paul Reimer 
We've gotten a request about wifi enabled wall outlets in residence halls for 
controlling connected appliances and metering power usage.

-Paul Reimer

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter P Morrissey
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:37 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

"The most interesting new device to show up so
far as been a Ring Doorbell system. "

Never would of thought of that one! I guess knocking is just so 2008.

Pete

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Davis
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 8:14 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

We're just starting to see some of the early groups start showing up on campus.
The early trends seem to be Amazon Echo/Dots and Google Home systems, among
the ever growing trend of Smart TVs.  The most interesting new device to show 
up so
far as been a Ring Doorbell system.

thanks
mike

On 7/31/17 4:39 PM, Peter P Morrissey wrote:
Wondering if anyone has noticed any new trends in popular wireless devices that 
we might expect returning students to want to connect in their residences when 
they return?

Not being a gamer, this one was new to me. It apparently streams games on 
running on your laptop to your TV over a WiFi connection and also provides 
input for controllers. Seems like something that could use up a bit of 
bandwidth. The good news is that it appears to support 11ac.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/353380/Steam_Link/

Pete Morrissey


** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

2017-08-02 Thread Peter P Morrissey 
"The most interesting new device to show up so
far as been a Ring Doorbell system. "

Never would of thought of that one! I guess knocking is just so 2008.

Pete


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Davis
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 8:14 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] New Crazy Wireless Devices

We're just starting to see some of the early groups start showing up on campus.
The early trends seem to be Amazon Echo/Dots and Google Home systems, among
the ever growing trend of Smart TVs.  The most interesting new device to show 
up so
far as been a Ring Doorbell system.

thanks
mike

On 7/31/17 4:39 PM, Peter P Morrissey wrote:
Wondering if anyone has noticed any new trends in popular wireless devices that 
we might expect returning students to want to connect in their residences when 
they return?

Not being a gamer, this one was new to me. It apparently streams games on 
running on your laptop to your TV over a WiFi connection and also provides 
input for controllers. Seems like something that could use up a bit of 
bandwidth. The good news is that it appears to support 11ac.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/353380/Steam_Link/

Pete Morrissey


** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco Code Version

2017-08-02 Thread Lee H Badman 
I value what Jeff is doing with Beta, but also have to agree with James. 
Universities might be different- but we’re not THAT different that controllers 
and APs should crumble after all these years and generations of vendor 
offerings. I find code updates can be problematic, too many APs dump back to 
factory defaults, etc. And we’ve been particularly burned by:


-  8510s did not live up to spec when running AVC

-  8540s gave great results with AVC, to a certain code version, then 
it failed hard. 400+ TAC/engineering hours (and at least three “now try THIS 
code” go rounds) later, we stopped using AVC.  Couldn’t go back to the code 
that used to work because it didn’t support the APs we were now using.

-  Too many TAC cases drag on far too long for both PI and WLC

-  The assumption is that you will leave your network in duress- 
possibly impacting thousands of customers- during lengthy debugs

-  Too many problems happen only at large scale, so even lab-testing 
doesn’t find them first

-  Too many escalation builds

-  Code out there for download that really ought to have warnings about 
its use

-  Mixed messages from SEs, TAC, and Cisco partners on what code can be 
trusted or not

If colleges/universities are so challenging, seems like Cisco should have a 
design guide by now that incorporates the differences to head off the problems. 
And if large-scale networks are problematic, then the recommendation should be 
to reduce large networks to multiple small ones using smaller controllers. 
Whatever the case, we’ve had countless cycles of hearing contrition (“yes, we 
need to do better on our code bugs.. and we will!”) but it never seems to get 
there.  The 3800 rollout was a debacle- these awesome APs were overshadowed by 
poor code for almost a full year before there was code that you could actually 
take a chance on. Cisco isn’t a start-up, and it just feels like either AireOS 
was never that good, or somebody is way too eager to bloat it up with endless 
features at the expense of stability.

At my end, the overarching philosophy is Stability Above All, because we’re 
years into the WLAN being a critical resource. It just feels like that isn’t 
really embraced by the vendor.

Like with the early days of the 3800 AP, it would be nice to be able to look 
forward at Fabric-Enabled Whatever and actually be impressed and excited. But 
when we’re juggling constant WLC/AP bugs, features we can’t use because they 
break and no one can figure out why, the perception of a development culture 
that isn’t doing much to improve the bug front, and recently an increase in 
switch/PoE bugs, it’s really hard to get enthused about adding APIs into 
components that already have long-running issues.

We keep it on the rails for our almost 30K-daily-peak clients, but sometimes it 
can be maddening in ways that you just don’t get on any other product set.

-Lee



Lee Badman | Network Architect

Certified Wireless Network Expert (#200)
Information Technology Services
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244
t 315.443.3003   f 315.443.4325   e lhbad...@syr.edu w 
its.syr.edu
SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
syr.edu

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of James Helzerman
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2017 7:57 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco Code Version

With your beta controller how many access points and concurrent device 
connections are you able to test?

We are setting up a similar scenario, not so much for beta testing as for a 
stepping stone to upgrades of our campus controllers.  The controller pair are 
8540s and should have 250-300 APs with around 1000+ devices.  The user base is 
our IT folks in 3 locations so we hope to get good feedback.

I agree that edu is a unique beast for wi-fi but in the end it's seems some 
core functions are what is failing us such as code upgrades and APs stuck in 
CAPWAP flapping state that require the switch ports to be bounced.

Jimmy

On Aug 2, 2017 3:00 AM, "Jeffrey D. Sessler" 
> wrote:
I participate in the betas and even run a beta controller in production. This 
is complex stuff, and especially in EDU, we see things that no enterprise 
customer will even encounter – or test bed can simulate. For the most part, 
I’ve had no show-stopper issues going back to the post 5.2 days. That said, I 
keep a very open and direct dialog with the BU, and with something like the 
x800 series WAPs, my team did a lot of testing of the product to help get all 
the little bugs worked out.

Jeff

From: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
> 
on behalf of James Helzerman

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco Code Version

2017-08-02 Thread James Helzerman 
With your beta controller how many access points and concurrent device
connections are you able to test?

We are setting up a similar scenario, not so much for beta testing as for a
stepping stone to upgrades of our campus controllers.  The controller pair
are 8540s and should have 250-300 APs with around 1000+ devices.  The user
base is our IT folks in 3 locations so we hope to get good feedback.

I agree that edu is a unique beast for wi-fi but in the end it's seems some
core functions are what is failing us such as code upgrades and APs stuck
in CAPWAP flapping state that require the switch ports to be bounced.

Jimmy

On Aug 2, 2017 3:00 AM, "Jeffrey D. Sessler" 
wrote:

> I participate in the betas and even run a beta controller in production.
> This is complex stuff, and especially in EDU, we see things that no
> enterprise customer will even encounter – or test bed can simulate. For the
> most part, I’ve had no show-stopper issues going back to the post 5.2 days.
> That said, I keep a very open and direct dialog with the BU, and with
> something like the x800 series WAPs, my team did a lot of testing of the
> product to help get all the little bugs worked out.
>
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> *From: *"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu"  EDUCAUSE.EDU> on behalf of James Helzerman 
> *Reply-To: *"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu"  EDUCAUSE.EDU>
> *Date: *Tuesday, August 1, 2017 at 3:39 PM
> *To: *"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu"  EDUCAUSE.EDU>
> *Subject: *Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco Code Version
>
>
>
> I feel like we might be used as QA..anyone else?
>
>
>
> On Aug 1, 2017 6:32 PM, "Mccormick, Kevin"  wrote:
>
> They just released 8.2.160.0. They have not vetted the release as being
> stable. They will recommend after enough downloads and not a lot of bug
> issues.
>
>
> Kevin McCormick
> 
>
> Network Administrator
>
> University Technology - Western Illinois University
>
> ke-mccorm...@wiu.edu | (309) 298-1335 <3092981335> | Morgan Hall 106b
>
> Connect with uTech: Website  | Facebook
>  | Twitter
> 
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Marcelo Maraboli 
> wrote:
>
> Hello all
>
> I wonder why CISCO keeps 8.2.151 as "suggested" and not 8.2.160 ??
>
> just a precaution ?
>
> My Cisco partner is telling me to stay in 8.2.151 even if there is 8.5.x
> code our there.
>
>
> what's your opinion ?
>
>
> regards,
>
> On 7/31/17 4:11 PM, Paul Thompson wrote:
>
>
> .160 fixes some real world SIP and 802.11r Fast Transition bugs, if you're
> using either of those features.  I was told by a coworker that the
> engineering prereleases of it had helped with some real life Apple
> connectivity tics, but have less detail on specifics of that.
>
> On Mon, 31 Jul 2017, Lee H Badman wrote:
>
>
>
> 151 here as well- is a bit frustrating that 160 just came out as we’re in
> our “freeze” period now for making changes, pre-semester. Other than the
> typical laundry list of cryptic bugs corrected, does anyone know if 160
> addresses any real-world, commonly impactful 3800-related bugs?
>
>
>
> Lee Badman | Network Architect
>
> Certified Wireless Network Expert (#200) Information Technology Services
> 206 Machinery Hall 120 Smith Drive Syracuse, New York 13244
>
> t 315.443.3003 <(315)%20443-3003> f 315.443.4325 <(315)%20443-4325> e
> lhbad...@syr.edu w its.syr.edu
>
> SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY syr.edu
>
>
>
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [
> mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> ] On Behalf Of James Helzerman Sent:
> Monday, July 31, 2017 1:57 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco Code Version
>
>
>
> Hi.  For those with Cisco access points what code version are planning on
> running for start of fall semester?
>
>
>
> At this point we looking at 8.2.151 possibly 8.2.160 but havent tested
> yet.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> -Jimmy
>
>
>
> --
>
> James Helzerman Wireless Network Engineer University of Michigan - ITS
>
> Phone: 734-615-9541 <(734)%20615-9541>
>
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/
> discuss.
>
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/
> discuss.
>
>
>
>
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
>
>
>
> --
> *Marcelo Maraboli Rosselott*
> Subdirector de Redes y Seguridad
> Dirección de Informática
> Pontificia Universidad Católica de Chile