Re: [WSG] setting fontsize in body

[Jermayn Parker]

one out of every three people have bad eye sight...
this was one of the very few things I actually learnt at university


>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9/08/2007 2:27:29 pm >>>
On 2007/08/07 20:38 (GMT+0100) Alastair Campbell apparently typed:

> You could take Jacob Neilsons finding that small fonts were the most

> popular 'mistake' as proof that people don't know how to change their

> settings

Or you could take it as proof that web designers as a group have
perfect
vision, and fail to understand normal web users as a group do not have
perfect vision, resulting in fonts on web pages just right for most
web
designers and too small for most others.

> We are caught in something of a catch-22, as so many sites use small

> fonts compared to the default, or simply reducing the default because
so 
> many people don't know how to change it.

Nielsen isn't the only one who has observed that designers impose text
sizes
smaller than the rest of the world prefers or requires. Note the first
data
point on "Fixing The Web":

"Millions of people cannot participate fully online because most Web
sites
are built for people with perfect vision and the manual dexterity
needed to
operate a mouse." http://xhtml.com/en/future/fixing-the-web-1/ 
-- 
"   It is impossible to rightly govern the world without
God and the Bible."George Washington

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ 


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Re: [WSG] setting fontsize in body

[Felix Miata]

On 2007/08/07 20:38 (GMT+0100) Alastair Campbell apparently typed:

> You could take Jacob Neilsons finding that small fonts were the most 
> popular 'mistake' as proof that people don't know how to change their 
> settings

Or you could take it as proof that web designers as a group have perfect
vision, and fail to understand normal web users as a group do not have
perfect vision, resulting in fonts on web pages just right for most web
designers and too small for most others.

> We are caught in something of a catch-22, as so many sites use small 
> fonts compared to the default, or simply reducing the default because so 
> many people don't know how to change it.

Nielsen isn't the only one who has observed that designers impose text sizes
smaller than the rest of the world prefers or requires. Note the first data
point on "Fixing The Web":

"Millions of people cannot participate fully online because most Web sites
are built for people with perfect vision and the manual dexterity needed to
operate a mouse." http://xhtml.com/en/future/fixing-the-web-1/
-- 
"   It is impossible to rightly govern the world without
God and the Bible."George Washington

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/


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Re: [WSG] opinions on the sale of .com.au domain names

[Jermayn Parker]

to be honest I like the strict rules of .com.au 

Q1: NO
Q2: NO

JP2 Designs
Jermayn Parker
0407 996 820



>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9/08/2007 8:38:53 am >>>
Hi all, just a two question survey on australian domain names
(.com.au)

Background : As it stands currently, the policy set out in relation  
to Australian domain names, prohibits you from selling a .com.au  
domain name to another person other than in some circumstances such  
as : selling the name with your business, liquidation etc.

Q1: Do you think you should be allowed to sell a .com.au domain  
name .. YES / NO

Q2: Do you think you should be able to sell a .com.au domain name by  
any means necessary, such as newspaper ads, website advertisements,  
ebay or by any other similar medium .. YES / NO

Please reply with your business name, contact name and hone number,  
and the answers to the two questions.

Thank you for your time
Matthew


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Re: [WSG] opinions on the sale of .com.au domain names

[Nick Gleitzman]

On 9 Aug 2007, at 10:38 AM, WebScience Australia wrote:

Please reply with your business name, contact name and hone number, 
and the answers to the two questions.


Offlist, of course, as this is waaay OT...

N
___
omnivision. websight.
http://www.omnivision.com.au/



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Re: [WSG] opinions on the sale of .com.au - ADMIN

[russ - maxdesign]

--
THREAD CLOSED
--
This is off-topic so please reply to Matthew OFF LIST

If you would like to comment on the closing of this thread, please either
reply to me directly, or to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Do not comment on the closing of this thread to the list.

Thanks
Russ



> Hi all, just a two question survey on australian domain names (.com.au)




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[WSG] opinions on the sale of .com.au domain names

[WebScience Australia]

Hi all, just a two question survey on australian domain names (.com.au)

Background : As it stands currently, the policy set out in relation  
to Australian domain names, prohibits you from selling a .com.au  
domain name to another person other than in some circumstances such  
as : selling the name with your business, liquidation etc.


Q1: Do you think you should be allowed to sell a .com.au domain  
name .. YES / NO


Q2: Do you think you should be able to sell a .com.au domain name by  
any means necessary, such as newspaper ads, website advertisements,  
ebay or by any other similar medium .. YES / NO


Please reply with your business name, contact name and hone number,  
and the answers to the two questions.


Thank you for your time
Matthew


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[WSG] Out Of Office

[Kimon G Rethis]

I am unavailable until Monday the 13th of August. If you need assistance please 
contact Joseph O'Connor at ext# 7917.


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Re: [WSG] Shop Products Markup

[Frances Berriman]

On 07/08/2007, Elle Meredith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Just wanted to ask when you build an e-commerce site, do you markup
> the products in any additional markup to give them more meaning? and
> by that I mean microformats or XBL or just XML?
>
> Thanks,
> Elle

You may want to take a look at the hListing microformat work[1].  It's
not a finalised specification, but it should give you some ideas about
how others are marking up things that are for sale - or you could get
involved with the work and add your examples etc.

[1]http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting-proposal

-- 
Frances Berriman
http://fberriman.com


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Re: [WSG] setting fontsize in body

[Alastair Campbell]

Stuart Foulstone wrote:

Computer screens may have steadily improved (and so has the research) but
human evolution doesn't change so fast that HCI research becomes outdated
in 13 years as you suggest.


Was the decision on default font size actually based on research, or was 
it just what they went with at the time? In any case, the main point is 
that the decision is old (consider Felix's research into increasing 
DPI), and unlikely to be changed.


Rob Kirton wrote:
> I realise that screen real estate  is precious, however I think we all
> agree this to be a very important feature.  To most users it is a moot
> point whether or mot these buttons perfrom text resizing or indeed
> page zoom.

Agreed, although I do think the 'fit to width' option (perhaps as 
default) is important, otherwise it won't appear to 'work'. I.e. the 
person increases the zoom, and has to scroll horizontally. without 
fit-to-width, this will happen on sites that use a liquid layout, or 
pixel based widths on smaller screens.


Kind regards,

-Alastair



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Re: [WSG] setting fontsize in body

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Aug 8, 2007, at 6:45 PM, Rob Kirton wrote:


However I would have thought it
sufficiently an important feature to dedicated a couple of buttons  
in the
chrome bar to it, maybe a simple + and - (my actual sugestion to  
them).


What makes you think that there won't be 'a couple of buttons' ?
The feature (page zoom) has only been implemented for 2 weeks, and  
there is no GUI for it, yet.

You can track the discussion about the UI aspects:
< https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=389628>


  [...]To most users it is a moot point
whether or mot these buttons perfrom text resizing or indeed page  
zoom.
That I'm not sure. I, for one, would hate to loose the *text* zoom  
feature.

Page zoom doesn't really work, for me (and I'm not alone).

But that features (and there associated UI) to improve readability of  
a page is important, that we all agree. And those features will  
become ever more important (more 'old' eyes on-line, increasing  
screen resolutions).


Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh






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Re: [WSG] setting fontsize in body

[Rob Kirton]

Alastair

No doubt it was full page zoom.  However I would have thought it
sufficiently an important feature to dedicated a couple of buttons in the
chrome bar to it, maybe a simple + and - (my actual sugestion to them).  I
realise that screen real estate  is precious, however I think we all agree
this to be a very important feature.  To most users it is a moot point
whether or mot these buttons perfrom text resizing or indeed page zoom.
They would

a) make the browser screen content more readable
b) make it more apparent to the user that this feature is available.

The browser manufacturers need to realise that most users will only develop
to a certain degree, to be tech savvy.  We as an industry must make things
easier.  Browsing the  web should be no more diffcult than  switching  TV
channels, ahem looks down at incredibly complex remote control :0)

-- 
Regards

- Rob

Raising web standards  : http://ele.vation.co.uk
Linking in with others: http://linkedin.com/in/robkirton


On 08/08/07, Alastair Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Rob Kirton wrote:
> > I was informed that they had a "far better idea" in the pipeline.  I'm
> > not holding my breath...
>
> As others suggested, full page zoom is likely to be it, but I hope they
> include Opera's fit-to-width option, or something to the same effect.
> Otherwise it won't be any better than IE7's:
> http://alastairc.ac/2006/11/browser-zoom-comparison/
>
> Cheers,
>
> -Alastair
>
>
>
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Re: [WSG] setting fontsize in body

[Stuart Foulstone]

The best on-screen text-size/font-type for readability by human beings has
been much researched ever since computer screens were invented - it's
nothing to do with the application (e.g. browser).

Computer screens may have steadily improved (and so has the research) but
human evolution doesn't change so fast that HCI research becomes outdated
in 13 years as you suggest.

Also, everyone seems to be forgetting the user's, much easier, other
choice when they come across a Web site with text which too small - leave,
never to return!

That said, some fonts can be used at a (slightly) smaller size, to no ill
effect, since they have been specially created for on-screen readabity
(e.g. Verdana, Tahoma, Trebuchet MS, and Georgia).


See further considerations for text at WebAIM:

http://www.webaim.org/techniques/fonts/#screenfonts


On Tue, August 7, 2007 8:38 pm, Alastair Campbell wrote:

>
> Felix Miata wrote:
>  > the web browser makers who made the default defaults equal
>  > to what ordinary users prefer
>
> That decision was from about 13 years ago, surely? Unless I missed
> something earlier in the thread, I doubt they did any research into it
> then, and it would be out dated now if they did. Now they can't change
> the defaults because it would "break the web". Personally, I wouldn't
> complain about that, but I would suggest that increase/decrease text
> buttons are in the default browser chrome.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> -Alastair
>
> 1] http://alastairc.ac/2007/05/user-agent-improvements/
>
>
>
>
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Re: [WSG] setting fontsize in body

[Alastair Campbell]

Rob Kirton wrote:
I was informed that they had a "far better idea" in the pipeline.  I'm 
not holding my breath...


As others suggested, full page zoom is likely to be it, but I hope they 
include Opera's fit-to-width option, or something to the same effect. 
Otherwise it won't be any better than IE7's:

http://alastairc.ac/2006/11/browser-zoom-comparison/

Cheers,

-Alastair



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Re: [WSG] setting fontsize in body

[Steve Olive]

On Tuesday 07 August 2007 20:37, Rick Lecoat wrote:
>
> And I always wonder how many people, particularly the older generation
> who (without wanting to generalise too much) may not be quite as tech-
> savvy as their kids, actually have no idea that the default text size
> can even be adjusted, and possibly look at browser-default text and
> think "That text looks a bit big and clunking. But I assume that there's
> nothing I can do about except use the text resizing control in IE."
>

It is because most computer training courses don't teach the correct skills, 
so these "bad skills" get passed on. The old 14" - 15" CRT monitors had 
resolutions around 800 x 600 or even 640 x 480 because the graphics cards and 
manufacturing techniques allowed these resolutions. 800 x 600 with the 
default fonts set by Windows gave fonts approxiamtely 12 points in size when 
compared to printed material. When people moved to 17" CRT the resolutions 
moved to 1024 x 768 or stayed at 800 x 600 to get fonts slightly larger than 
standard printed material. If people were having problems seeing textual 
menus or content they were advised to "change the resolution" by "expert 
users".

Larger 19" and 21" monitors were seen as (expensive) aids for visually 
impaired users who needed larger font.

Now we are moving into the LCD age, either 4:3 or 16:9 ratios, but with higher 
pixels densities than early monitors. Most computer trainers still teach 
users to change monitor resolution because the training material has not been 
updated to most effectively use new technology. They don't have the skills or 
knowledge about the usability options in all modern Operating Systems. You've 
seen it in Windows, but ignored it, go on guess where!

It is the tab before Screen Settings called Appearance, but everyone uses the 
Screen Settings Tab and changes the resolution. With LCD monitors the best 
screen appearance is at the native resolution, the maximum number of pixels 
or wires built into the monitor. If the fonts are too small for your eyes, 
change the appearance. Firstly, try "Large Fonts", then "Extra Large Fonts" 
and finally "Advanced" where you can specify fonts, font sizes, icon sizes 
and much more.

If these settings are changed, many people think the screen resolution has 
been changed - and are amazed when shown the 17" LCD is actually running at 
1280 x 1024, the native resolution. They are even more amazed when shown 
browser zooming!

How do I know these things? First hand experience! I teach IT to adults and 
have done for the better part of a decade. I have changed CRT & LCD monitors 
to native resolution with fonts and icons increased in size in classrooms 
used by multiple people, including teachers systems, and found that the 
systems stayed that way for weeks or even months because they were "usable" 
by everyone. Changes only occurred after I had pointed this out to teachers 
and students - they then knew how to set-up the system so it worked for them!

Oh, and if your eyesight is diminishing, or the "default" appearance is hard 
to see, do yourself a favour - get yours eyes checked. You will be amazed at 
the lack of eye strain and headaches after getting glasses - even using your 
new found skills customising the monitor appearance.

-- 
Regards,

Steve
Bathurst Computer Solutions
URL: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mobile: 0407 224 251
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