Re: [WSG] User testing results to reinforce 'no popup' recommendation [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
I would tend to argue the opposite (though not entirely). Links to external sites opening in new windows are not a bad idea in certain circumstances such as when external material might end up inside a frame, as might happen inside a Learning Management System... it might be advisable at that point to have the link appear in a new window (or tab) so as not to confuse the user and make it clear that this is not your site's material. Experienced browsers will know to use their shift or ctrl + click to force external links into new windows or tabs, or they may have already have it set up to do that in their browser options using a tab control extension, but novice users or those who just don't do so well with computers likely wouldn't know to do this and could get confused by external material showing up inside a frame, or being taken away from the website they were viewing. I personally prefer to have external links open in new tabs, sometimes even internal links if I want to finish reading the page but also want to view the contents of one or several links afterwards, and I frequently use ctrl + click when clicking on links. As an extra consideration, I just went to a copyright training seminar yesterday where this (external links inside frames) was discussed in terms of the danger of copyright infractions, and other nasties. I think forcing external links to open in new windows is not an entirely bad idea (depending on the circumstances and your users)... Jason On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Brad Pollard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Nate for the links. I really want to focus on the usability impacts of pop-ups. I'd love to see the AGIMO research that was done - do you have the name of someone within the organisation that I could contact with regards to sourcing this? ~ brad Ward, Nathan wrote: Hi Brad, I don't have any test data that shows this, however, below are a two articles from Digital Web Magazine that mention the topic. I'm also fairly sure that AGIMO has some research on the topic but I couldn't find it this afternoon. You could also check out the Vision Australia website ( http://www.visionaustralia.org.au/). http://www.digital-web.com/articles/accessible_by_design/ Avoid using links that create a new browser window. If you do use them, warn users. Users may not be aware of the shift in their system's focus. It may disorient or confuse them. This is also a usability issue since users can't use the Back button to navigate back and revisit pages. It's easy to accidentally close the wrong window and lose what you want to access. Add a text warning message or place a small icon (with a warning in the ALT attribute) before links that will spawn a new window. Avoid pop-up windows, when possible. This has problems similar to creating a new window, but also has JavaScript complications. Access to the pop-up should be device independent. More importantly, make the content in the pop-up accessible if JavaScript is turned off. http://www.digital-web.com/articles/designer_user_partnership/ The other area designers overstep is in controlling the user environment. The Web behaves in ways that are predictable to users. For example, when a user clicks a link, the browser requests the page from the Web server, the Web server sends the page to the browser, and the Web browser renders the page. Sometimes designers get involved in this transaction by moving the cursor directly to the search input field or opening links in a new window. We, as designers, use these methods because we want to be helpful. We assume that most users will want to use the search feature on arrival; to make things easier, we put the cursor in the search input field. We assume that most users will want to keep in contact with our site while exploring other sites; to make things easier, we open external links in a new window. But sometimes these helpful interventions wind up causing usability problems because they violate expectations. People expect to begin listening to or tabbing through a Web page from its beginning and will be disoriented if the cursor focus is not at the top of the page. People expect to use the Back button to retrace their navigation path and will not be able to return to the originating site if it is not in the window history. While these actions may be helpful to some, they will create usability problems for others. Moving the cursor and opening a new window are functions of the user environment and should be performed by the user. Cheers, Nate -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *Brad Pollard *Sent:* Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:44 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* [WSG] User testing results to reinforce 'no popup' recommendation A dear client is holding us over a barrel. Does anyone have some user test data/video (that they are willing
Re: [WSG] HTML special characters coding
I don't think this is right. It depends what language and character set you have specified the document to be in. If the character is included in the character set, there is no need to use the special code... provided the browser can read that character set... Jason On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 8:25 AM, Matthew Holloway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: kevin_erickson wrote: Hello, I am looking for advice on if the best way to code for special characters is to use the actual character or the attribute value or the alt code? i.e. for the ampersand should one use or amp;? Does it matter? I know that Dreamweaver automates some of this but what is the best practice? You're always supposed to encode as amp; (even in hrefs) and that's what standards compliance requires. (I use XHTML and I also want to be parseable as XML so aside from XMLs inbuilt entities of lt; gt; amp; quot; and apos; I tend to use NCRs...). -- .Matthew Holloway http://holloway.co.nz/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)?
A decent spam filter will get rid of most, if not all, of the junk - why not encourage your clients to get a good spam filter or use an email client with a good built-in filter? Jason On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 8:58 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My 2 cents: I'm one of those standards freaks. But when my clients became overwhelmed with SPAM from their contact forms I had to bend the rules. And when I say overwhelmed I'm talking about several hundred SPAM emails for every one or two legitimate inquiries. I tried many standards compliant anti-SPAM techniques but the SPAMmers always found a way around them. Then I used JavaScript. It worked. It's still working. Not one single SPAM has gotten through in over two years. One could argue that JavaScript renders the contact form unusable for five percent of the population. But without it, the SPAMmers would render it unusable for a hundred percent of the population. My clients aren't going to sift through hundreds of emails to find the needle in the haystack. I wouldn't either. It's not possible to make everyone happy. Use your best judgment. -- Marcello :-) ---Original Message--- From: Chris Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)? Sent: Jun 16 '08 10:18 Michael, What if JavaScript isn't enabled or available on my smartphone? I presume your websites are not for people accessing the web while on the move, as well as people whose preference or requirement is to use a web client without JavaScript. These standard[s] freaks you seem to think so little of *are* trying to make the web a better place for users - by levelling the playing field, making things fairer and ensuring we all stick to the same high standards. You can choose not to do that which is fine by me - my websites will gladly accept the visitors (and customers) who can't use yours. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Persson Sent: 16 June 2008 10:53 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)? The best way is a form that also has a secure SPAM code or just make a image that search engines cannot read... I believe that people that does not have Javascript working are not using internet for the purpose i produce websites for, and im sorry we cant accept all kind of users. Also users has to follow the standard where website production also is based in the clients need and NOT on web standards. Standard freaks are trying to make things better for web standards and not for the clients or visitors in general... There is a war and it will always be there until understanding from all parts are met. Michael James Leslie wrote: Why is this the best way? It means that anyone without JavaScript enabled cannot contact you. Spam is a pain, but not giving a user the basic opportunity of contacting you is a bigger problem IMO. I think mailto's and spam filters are the best way to go, as they are accessible for everyone. J *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Fuji kusaka *Sent:* 13 June 2008 05:23 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)? Hi The best way is to encrypt the email address and make use of a js. This will avoid loads of problems specially spamming. This is simple just follow the instructions here http://jumk.de/nospam/stopspam.html Fuji On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 6:22 AM, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is one of the thing I can't decide. At time, it seemed nothing wrong to have an email link (js encrypted, not mailto that shows email address nakely to Mr. Spam King), but as many people are actually using webmail, or sometimes access websites via public computer (internet cafe or library for instance), I find that having email link actually is causing usability for users. When client insists on having direct email link. What do you do so that it won't cause problem for above users? Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Fuji kusaka *** List Guidelines:
Re: [WSG] Semantic coding of posted in
A dialogue makes a lot more sense than a list of items which is what Jens-Uwe is suggesting. I don't believe the usage of a definition list for a dialogue suggests that DL and DD can be used 'in all manner of creative ways.' Its primary purpose is to identify a term and its definition. It works well in a dialogue in that it identifies the speaker, then offsets what the person has said - you could see this as defining the person by his speech. It's when we start to get overly creative that we break the rules of the language and end up with markup which is no longer semantic, but gibberish - it may render the way we want it to, but it has lost its original intended meaning. Jens-Uwe's example could even be put into a P element if he wants it displayed inline as he put in his first post: Posted in: Category 1, Category 2 pPosted in: Category 1, Category 2/p I would suggest a low-level heading (depending on the heading hierarchy of the site) or simply a paragraph (depending on the context of the list within the page) for 'posted in' followed by an unordered list if he wants it to display as a bulleted list, or he can remove the bullets with his stylesheet if he doesn't want them, but this still remains a list of categories in which things are posted not a definition of 'posted in': Posted in: - Category 1 - Category 2 h5Posted in:/h5 ul liCategory 1/li liCategory 2/li /ul The context will really determine what is best, but either of those options make more sense than a definition list. Jason On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 8:12 PM, Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 13 Jun 2008, at 04:05, Jason Ray wrote: Definition lists are for definitions, which this is not. Not necessarily so. The W3C gives character dialogue as an example usage of a DL http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html#h-10.3 which seems to encourage finding less literal uses for it -- and plenty of designers use the tag to semantically group collections of semantically-connected text chunks/images etc in all manner of creative ways. -- Rick Lecoat www.sharkattack.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] MA in web development
I think the issue is how to approach these subjects at a graduate level. Graduate studies are meant to be much more in depth and research-oriented than undergraduate studies, and are often preparatory for PhD studies. Courses at this level should address more the why of things than the how - unless this is meant to be a practical master's degree in which case I would question the purpose of offering it at a graduate level unless it will be highly specialised. An MA should look at the theories behind the web, web technologies, web design, etc as well as concrete issues in the web today and have students engage with those theories and issues through research to try to find better solutions to problems. A suggestion would be to offer courses in how to conduct research related to web design issues - for example, a course in designing, implementing and evaluating usability and accessibility tests. Is this going to be a thesis-based program, or a project-oriented program? I believe MAs in the UK are the opposite of those in Canada, which are by thesis. This would also affect the orientation of the program and its courses. You should probably seek feedback from people who have actually undertaken post-graduate studies in related fields. Those with bachelor degrees or no tertiary education will have a poor idea of what graduate studies are about. Jason On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 10:40 PM, Joseph Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree TW. A good course teaches you to fish, to borrow from the ancient adage. therefore html 4/5 is a non-issue. Therefore any current course would include the complete understanding of BOTH current and emerging standards and any good student and practitioner will constantly be remaining aware of progress. As for web _design_, this ALREADY includes: information architecture, wireframing, user-centred design research and implementation, prototyping accessibility and usability, as well as colour, layout, aesthetics. design is not just appearance, it is also engineering, architecture and usability. On Jun 12, 2008, at 11:10, Theresa Weber wrote: I disagree - all knowledge that you learn in a course becomes outdated but you gain skills that allow you to continue to learn. Learning how to write valid and accessible HTML is a skill that can be taught and the graduate will then continue to improve and upgrade those skills as newer standards standards are released. I liked the list that Andreas suggested. -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *James Jeffery *Sent:* Thursday, 12 June 2008 5:30 PM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] MA in web development Personally I would see a course in Web Design pointless. I am doing Computer Science, but with Computer Science the foundations tend to rarley change. If you set up a Masters in Web Design it's likley it would become invalid after a while, especially when HTML 5 and CSS 3 replace the current HTML and CSS. If it's purley in design then it should cover usability, accessiblity, aesthetics, design blah blah. The stuff that is unlikley to change. Personally though I would focus on Computer Science and if i wanted to be good at design take up a course in Art or Graphic Design. At least that way you can use your skills more widely. James On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Kevin Lennon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: aboehmer wrote: It could contain a pile of subjects, depending on how far you want to take it. Here just some ideas: HTML/CSS Multimedia (Video, Flash, Podcasts, etc) Basics in Programming (PHP/VB, etc) Usability Accessibility Search Engine Optimisation Basics in Graphic Design (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc) Introduction to Networks/Hosting environments You could even chuck in some electives of Business subjects. Masters students would probably want to get their head around Project Management as well...? Hope this helps. Andreas. -Original message- From: Jason Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:30:36 +1000 To: wsg wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] MA in web development Hello everyone, Last night a proposal has been hinted at me to put together an MA course in web development for a UK University. That's all I have been told so far. I was wondering what people were feeling such a course ought to contain. I have my views of course, but would not like to influence the feedback at this point. All suggestions are very much appreciated. Regards, Jason Grantwww.flexewebs.com/semantix *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Andreas Boehmer User Experience Consultant
Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)?
I have used mailto: on the websites I have designed, which usually include a reference to my email and I haven't really had issues with spam. Spam filters on Gmail seem to be doing a fine job of filtering out the mail I don't want to see, so I'm not all that concerned about having my email address in a mailto: I don't know what others have experienced though... Jason On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 12:22 PM, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is one of the thing I can't decide. At time, it seemed nothing wrong to have an email link (js encrypted, not mailto that shows email address nakely to Mr. Spam King), but as many people are actually using webmail, or sometimes access websites via public computer (internet cafe or library for instance), I find that having email link actually is causing usability for users. When client insists on having direct email link. What do you do so that it won't cause problem for above users? Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Semantic coding of posted in
You could use a table, or simply use a header followed by an unordered list. Definition lists are for definitions, which this is not. Jason On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Jens-Uwe Korff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I need to code a posted in list of terms where an entry could be filed in, eg: Posted in: category1, category2 My initial choice was to use an unordered list, but what do I with the heading posted in? Should I use a definition list rather? Can we assume that we define where the entry has been posted with the list's definition descriptors? dl dtPosted in:/dt ddcategory1,/dd ddcategory2/dd /dl Thanks, ** *Jens * -- The information contained in this e-mail message and any accompanying files is or may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, dissemination, reliance, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail or any attached files is unauthorised. This e-mail is subject to copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the written consent of the copyright owner. If you have received this e-mail in error please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail or telephone and delete all copies. Fairfax does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in this e-mail or attached files. Internet communications are not secure, therefore Fairfax does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message or attached files. -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)?
Right. Making sure the actual email address is used in the mailto is important - 'contact us' ones do frustrate me, but there are plugins for browsers like Firefox that allow such links to be redirected to my webmail (Gmail, Yahoo, Hotmail, etc) rather than Outlook. The address will appear in the status bar though even if it's been called 'contact us' which would allow a user to write it down and type it in manually, but knowing that it appears in the status bar takes some computer know-how which a surprising number of people don't have. You want things to be as a simple and easy as people if you are dealing with a wide and varied audience. An option to satisfy everyone would be to provide both a linked and a text-based version of the email address, though it might look a little redundant and clumsy. a href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/a - [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can usually highlight the link without clicking on it to copy/paste as well, but it's sometimes a challenge when there's no other text around it. As long as the actual address is legible and not replaced with 'contact us,' I think most people will be able to manage to send an email to you one way or another. It just might involve the extra step of having to type it in manually. Jason On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 1:35 PM, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jason, Thanks for the response. My question however isn't about using mailto draws attention to spam, but the mailto (direct email link) causes problem for people who use no email client, because when you click on the link, it wants to open up an email client. Some people find this annoying. I sometime work at a print shop place for a client near University Campus, where, he has a small internet cafe setup and the computers have no email clients installed, even if they do, customers can't send email via his account anyway. His customers go in to use the internet for all kind of reasons; not once, but many times, I overhead frustrated comments about the direct email link, because many sites replaced email address to 'contact us' or other keywords, and they can't see the email address, therefor can't copy and past to their webmail. Although, you can still see the email address at status bar when mouse over, but you can't copy it. So base on these feedback, I always pay attention not to use email link but a short contact us form or use something like 'company at xyz client com' with no link, but I don't always get the freedom, because some clients really must have email link, when they do, I feel I am scarifying a good user experience. tee On Jun 12, 2008, at 8:03 PM, Jason Ray wrote: I have used mailto: on the websites I have designed, which usually include a reference to my email and I haven't really had issues with spam. Spam filters on Gmail seem to be doing a fine job of filtering out the mail I don't want to see, so I'm not all that concerned about having my email address in a mailto: I don't know what others have experienced though... Jason * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] MA in web development
What is this hinted university thinking of or already offering at the undergraduate level? mark That's what I would like to know as well. Jason *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Should we design for 800x600 screens?
Nick, you have subscribed to the Web Standards Group discussion list. If you don't want to receive the mailings, follow the link at the bottom of the email marked 'Unsubscribe' to unsubscribe. Jason 2008/6/10 Web Marketing Experts - Nick Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Please remove me from this email chat. warm *regards*, NICK BELL - WEB MARKETING EXPERTS *INTELLIGENT **WEBMARKETING ** * www.webmarketingexperts.com.au PH +61 3 9667 0150 FAX +61 3 9667 0134 MOB +61 420 244 738 * * *Getting your site on Google 1st page can turn a hobby into a million-dollar business. *CNN Money -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Anton Babushkin *Sent:* Tuesday, 10 June 2008 12:39 PM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] Should we design for 800x600 screens? I would say Absolutely, absoutely and absolutely! My reasoning for this is simple: what about the rest of those users who *don't browse the internet with the browser in full screen*? As a matter of fact I'm doing it right now, so thank god GMail scales gracefully, or I probably wouldn't use it! I think the big question is how scalable your web page becomes beyond 800x600 and that all really depends on the kind of content your web site is providing. If its something which can be extremelly useful for a Google Desktop application then perhaps you need to take that into account. If not, then perhaps rethink your strategy/approach. Thats my two cents. On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 1:28 PM, IceKat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I have a question I'd like to poll people about. Should we still bother designing to fit in with 800x600 screen resolutions or is it Ok to just design for 1024x768 and not worry about smaller resolutions? I know applications like Google Desktop make it more complicated and am interested to hear people's views. IceKat PS- If this has been asked before I apologise and ask if it's possible to see mail archives to see the responses. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- - Anton Babushkin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1433 - Release Date: 14/05/2008 4:44 PM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1433 - Release Date: 14/05/2008 4:44 PM *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Breadcrumbs showing organisational structure and usability
Lib, I don't think you should leave the list over one person's comments if you are benefiting from other people's feedback. Libraries probably shouldn't fit under individual departments, but under the organisation's umbrella - I am particularly thinking of university libraries. If you are a specialised library (eg, music, medicine or law) then you should fit under the parent library which should fit under the main university's site. A particular department can link to your site from theirs, but you shouldn't fit into their hierarchy. Like you say, people use a library website for different reasons than a departmental website - you can even argue that a library forms its own department. You may even have need for specialised web templates if you have online catalogues or databases, etc. which may not fit in well with the purpose of the rest of the organisation's web templates. In my opinion, your 'breadcrumbs' or organisational structure, should probably look something like: Parent Org Library Specialised Library (Subcategory ) Current Page or Parent Org Library (Subcategory ) Current Page If I was a user, that's how I would search for you on an organisation's website. Jason On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 11:38 AM, libwebdev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow. Make a genuine enquiry, and get this. I see this list is living up to its reputation for rudeness that I was warned about before I joined. I asked for opinions on the use of breadcrumbs for the reason I stated: because I was under the impression that they showed the user's path to the current page, and the ones we're being urged to employ simply show organisational structure. I even asked Am I wrong?, and was prepared to take the information on board if organisational structure as breadcrumbs was considered acceptable. Some people have been courteous enough to express their views on the matter, and I thank them very much for that. They seemed perfectly capable of doing so without reading non-existant motives into my question. I'm not interested in gathering guru evidence to support my own view. Our webmaster would not be the slightest bit interested in anything this group has to say, what with the CMS-driven invalid muck with URLs that look like mathematical formulas that he cranks out. @Anton We are permitted, with good grace and with genuine offers of help if we need it, to have our site reside outside the CMS. I know for a fact that when someone did ask why is the library outside the CMS?, the webmaster told them because they can do it themselves. He's fine with it. It's people like me who get thanked on a daily basis for having an intuitive, fast-loading, accessible, usable web site ... thank goodness you're not in with the rest of them. ... your site is better and so much easier to use. Web standards and interoperability?? The webmaster gets a distinct deer-in-the-headlights look on his face when I utter words such as those. That is why we're out of it and will stay out of it until the organisation reuqests that we join. Incidentally, it appears I was mistaken in my original post: the breadcrumb trail will *not* include the current page, but will appear like so (on 200+ pages): Parent Org Clinical Services Library This seems even less effective than I originally thought. Clinical Services have nothing to do with us, and we have nothing to do with them, and we have a clear link back to the parent org on every page of our site. We used to be under IT, then under Executive. It changes all the time because they don't know where we fit. I know our user-base, and they are simply NOT going to say oh, now I've finished with the library site, I think I'll just pop up to Clinical Services. They use our site for reasons completely unrelated to the department above us, and indeed that of our parent org. I will, however, consider carefully the comments of those who offered their views on this type of breadcrumb usage. I don't particularly enjoy being abused by strangers for posting an honest question, so I think it's time I unsubscribed. Is that petulant enough for you Mark, or should I also slam the door on my way out? thanks, lib. On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Mark Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: libwebdev wrote: My organisation manages around 7000+ pages for 100s of departments, using a CMS. Mine is the only department outside the CMS, just because we can. We have been persuaded (read: bullied) to redesign our header to exactly match that of the parent organisation. I have no problem with that per se, but theirs includes breadcrumbs, and we don't want 'em. Who pays your bills? Golden Rule is that the guy with the gold makes the rules. Suck it up. Because we can is not a valid reason to do anything. You are part of the organization, yes? Therefore you should fit within its structures and strictures, whether you like that or not. If they are wrong,
Re: [WSG] Marking up multiple form inputs
Tables shouldn't be used for layouts, use style sheets instead, but they should be used for *information* which lends itself well to a table. If you are trying to display data in an organised format, which requires columns and rows, then use a table. Jason On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Chris Pearce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Would the following layout be best marked up using a table: *Column Header* *Column Header* [label tag] [input tag] [input tag] [label tag] [input tag] [input tag] [label tag] [input tag] [input tag] Cheers [image: cid:image001.gif@01C7B8BB.D6C86180] http://www.bluearcgroup.com/ solutions for a digital world *Exchange Server 2007* Built-in Protection, Anywhere Access, Operational Efficiency *BLUEARC WILL HELP YOU MAKE THE MOVE. FIND OUT HOW*http://www.bluearcgroup.com/content.asp?z=6c=104p=494f=2 ** level 1, 11 albany street st leonards nsw 2065 *p:* 02 9467 2500 *d:* 02 9467 25 *f:* 02 9431 5999 *e:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] *w:* www.bluearcgroup.com *ARE YOU READY FOR NEXT GENERATION WEB TECHNOLOGY?* Leading the way in Web Content Management, *IgnitionSuite Version 3.0*prepares you for the future of the web. *To learn more call 9467 2500 or email [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] * *Privileged - Private Confidential* This email and files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) and may contain information which is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this email or any attachment is prohibited. If you receive this email and you are not the addressee, or you have received this email in error, please disregard the contents of the email, delete the email and notify the author immediately. P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***image001.gif
Re: [WSG] Marking up multiple form inputs
As far as I can tell without knowing the specifics of the data, it looks like information that suits a table - just as you have displayed it. I was confused by your question starting with 'Would the following layout...' so I thought it was worth pointing out that layouts shouldn't be done using tables. Jason On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Chris Pearce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I realise tables shouldn't be used for layouts. Doesn't this information suit a table structure though (tabular data)? If not what would you use? Cheers [image: cid:image001.gif@01C7B8BB.D6C86180] http://www.bluearcgroup.com/ solutions for a digital world *Exchange Server 2007* Built-in Protection, Anywhere Access, Operational Efficiency *BLUEARC WILL HELP YOU MAKE THE MOVE. FIND OUT HOW*http://www.bluearcgroup.com/content.asp?z=6c=104p=494f=2 ** level 1, 11 albany street st leonards nsw 2065 *p:* 02 9467 2500 *d:* 02 9467 25 *f:* 02 9431 5999 *e:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] *w:* www.bluearcgroup.com *ARE YOU READY FOR NEXT GENERATION WEB TECHNOLOGY?* Leading the way in Web Content Management, *IgnitionSuite Version 3.0*prepares you for the future of the web. *To learn more call 9467 2500 or email [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] * *Privileged - Private Confidential* This email and files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) and may contain information which is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this email or any attachment is prohibited. If you receive this email and you are not the addressee, or you have received this email in error, please disregard the contents of the email, delete the email and notify the author immediately. P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Jason Ray *Sent:* Tuesday, 10 June 2008 12:22 PM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] Marking up multiple form inputs Tables shouldn't be used for layouts, use style sheets instead, but they should be used for *information* which lends itself well to a table. If you are trying to display data in an organised format, which requires columns and rows, then use a table. Jason On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Chris Pearce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Would the following layout be best marked up using a table: *Column Header* *Column Header* [label tag] [input tag] [input tag] [label tag] [input tag] [input tag] [label tag] [input tag] [input tag] Cheers [image: cid:image001.gif@01C7B8BB.D6C86180] http://www.bluearcgroup.com/ solutions for a digital world *Exchange Server 2007* Built-in Protection, Anywhere Access, Operational Efficiency *BLUEARC WILL HELP YOU MAKE THE MOVE. FIND OUT HOW*http://www.bluearcgroup.com/content.asp?z=6c=104p=494f=2 level 1, 11 albany street st leonards nsw 2065 *p:* 02 9467 2500 *d:* 02 9467 25 *f:* 02 9431 5999 *e:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] *w:* www.bluearcgroup.com *ARE YOU READY FOR NEXT GENERATION WEB TECHNOLOGY?* Leading the way in Web Content Management, *IgnitionSuite Version 3.0*prepares you for the future of the web. *To learn more call 9467 2500 or email [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] * *Privileged - Private Confidential* This email and files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) and may contain information which is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this email or any attachment is prohibited. If you receive this email and you are not the addressee, or you have received this email in error, please disregard the contents of the email, delete the email and notify the author immediately. P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: [WSG] Fwd: Fix for Nav Links Centering and Blockquotes
Hi Marvin,
If you're linking to an external style sheet, you shouldn't have to edit
hundreds of pages to change the font size across the board - one edit of the
style sheet should affect all the pages which link to it.
I was concerned because I could not read your fonts when the font sizing was
set to normal on my browser (I'm using Firefox 2.0). I have normal sight and
I don't think I should have to increase the font size 3 or 4 times just to
make the font legible - this seems to be a usability issue as far as I'm
concerned. The problem only occurred in your navigation menus - the text in
the body of the pages was quite legible.
This might be a glitch with Firefox. I seem to remember having an issue with
lists on one of my sites, where the text of a list embedded inside another
list became smaller. This is not necessarily your problem (I don't know if
you are using nested lists), but I should check to see how the fonts appear
in IE.
Could you post the link to your site again?
Jason
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 3:24 PM, Marvin Hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
-- Forwarded message --
From: Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 00:00:51 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
Subject: Re: Fix for Nav Links Centering and Blockquotes
To: Marvin Hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I'm sorry, marvin, but you can't make everyone happy as to the font problem
without ruining your site for everyone else. Your friend should have
continued to increase the font size until he could read it, but don't let
people talk you into something that will mess your pages up. Everyone can
control the font sizes through their browsers and they also can set their
own computers to display larger fonts by setting the system font size much
larger.
Maybe you should provide instructions to others for how to increase the
fonts in their browsers so you don't need to edit hundreds of pages and
make
your page layouts look terrible.
Ron
---Original Message---
From: Marvin Hunkin
Date: 6/1/2008 11:11:41 PM
To: Ron
Subject: Re: Fix for Nav Links Centering and Blockquotes
Hi.
well, one guy on the wsg list, asking for feedback about my site,
said, that the fonts were really small, and as a part sighted person,
had to increase them 3 or 4 times, and he said still way too small.
the wsg list address to post is wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
and maybe subscribe and post there.
okay, will go and have a look at the images, zip file, i downloaded.
and okay, will put your changes in the style sheets, and the div tags
for the pages, will do that this weekend, and then edit the other
content.
sorry about that.
cheers marvin.
ps: so, do i use the pages, i downloaded them, for the star trek, or
just put all the episodes in season folders, go and find the season
folders, and then put the references to those links on the episode
page?
so i can then match off line, what is online?
is this right?
okay, will start to do that on the weekend.
cheers marvin.
On 6/2/08, Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Marvin:
You don't need to change your font sizes!!! Quit worrying about the font
sizes on your pages. They are fine! If any of your friends need a
larger
font size to view the pages, then tell them to use Ctrl + or Ctrl -
keyboard
keys. Those with a center mouse wheel have their own way to
increase/decrease a web page's font size without you having to edit
several
hundred pages to just please them. Plus, I told you, an increase in font
size for your page is going to really mess up your page layouts and you
will
have to GO BACK again and again to straighten them out. Please leave
well
enough alone and concentrate on getting your content put in and your
pages
functional online.
There is nothing wrong with the colors either. The pages match the Star
Trek themes.
You should have gotten all the images I could find in the zipped file you
downloaded.
Ron
---Original Message---
From: Marvin Hunkin
Date: 6/1/2008 5:58:12 AM
To: Ron
Subject: Re: Fix for Nav Links Centering and Blockquotes
Hi.
thanks for that.
will put that in, and hope that will cure my problems.
and in the star trek cafe folder, edit, all the pages there, then copy it
and override to Marvins Website.
will ask my other friends, about how to change, the font size, and the
colours.
thanks for that.
cheers Marvin.
ps: now, just waiting for the images,that is the last thing i am waiting
for
you to do, when you have time.
- Original Message -
From: Ron
To: Marvin Hunkin
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 1:04 AM
Subject: Fix for Nav Links Centering and Blockquotes
Let me see if I can get you through this step by step...
On the styles.css file:
1) Where you have blockquote { margin: 5% 0 1% 16%; width: 67%;
text-align:
justify; font-weight: bold; }, replace this with div.block { width:
700px
margin: 5% auto; text-align: justify;
Re: [WSG] innerHTML assignment overflows TD cell in FF
This isn't necessarily answering your question, but in the interest of
standards I thought I should point out that your table is not well formed.
There are header (thead and th), body (tbody), and footer (tfoot)
elements that you can and should use, as well as a caption (optional).
Your table should look something like this:
table
captionDescription of the Table/caption
thead
thead
tr
th colspan=3Header/th
/tr
/thead
tbody
tr
tdstuff/td
tdthe most stuff/td
tdstuff/td
/tr
/tbody
tfoot
tr
td colspan=3footer/td
/tr
/tfoot
table
Cheers,
Jason
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Skip Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hey,
I see from reading up that innerHTML is not really standard, and not the
best way to go. Was not aware of that and from the doc you send am now
working on this:
var maincontent=document.getElementById('newsnode');
maincontent.firstChild.nodeValue=ret;
And the node looks like this:
div id=newsnode!!main_content!!/div
But this is not working. I guess the node itself is not the first node?
Will keep working at it, but any hint would sure be appreciated.
Incidentally, !!main_content!! is a placeholder value replaced via PHP with
the initial content on page load.
Thanks!
Skip
Thierry Koblentz wrote:
Did you try without using innerHTML?
http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-3-Core/introduction.html
--
Skip Evans
Big Sky Penguin, LLC
503 S Baldwin St, #1
Madison, WI 53703
608-250-2720
http://bigskypenguin.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Check out PHPenguin, a lightweight and versatile
PHP/MySQL, AJAX DHTML development framework.
http://phpenguin.bigskypenguin.com/
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Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute
hmm... is accessibility not a feature of standards compliance? I'm forgetting whether the W3C HTML validator will reject img elements without the alt attribute, or if it's just the accessibility validators that do so. Jason On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 10:55 AM, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/27/08, Jason Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The alt attribute should always be included in order to be standards compliant, and accessible the title is optional. some accessibility software i use says it's a good idea to use a title for accessibility reasons. the software is adesigner by ibm. dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] My Website query
Hi Marvin, Your website has some major design issues that you should probably address. For starters, your background wallpaper really reduces legibility, and the dark green doesn't show up very well against the black. Also, all of your navigation links are illegible at their current font size, I have to increase the font size at least 3 times before the navigation becomes remotely legible (this is probably because you're using percentages, and at values less than 100%). Consider using em, px, or pt values instead of percentages - if you do use percentages, consider 100% you're base value and only go higher for larger text (ie, 120%, 140%, 160%, etc). There are also some copyright issues with your site in that you're using some images like the Ford logo and a Star Trek wallpaper likely without permission and without copyright or trademark indications. Be very careful about just taking images from other websites and using them as your own. You might also want to develop some content for your website before you make it live. There doesn't seem to much there. Cheers, Jason On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Marvin Hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. 1. well, need to download the ati radian display drivers for this Del Latitude laptop. so that is why jaws not reading properly. 2. now, could you take a look at my site, and let me know, how to increase the font, or maybe change it from percentage font size to actual font point size. if you have any vision, or maybe ask some sighted colleagues or friends, what sizes, for all elements on the page do i need to change it to? maybe you have some web designers, you know. if i download jaws 9.1, what performance would i get out of this upgrade? any use to download and install this one? 3. now, was wondering, could you take a look at my 80s history page. if my parents stumbled on to it, might get the fourth degree. so can you take a look at the content, and maybe suggest, how i could maybe tone down the information, or tone down the way the text is written to be more appealing to those reading it, and maybe even be a bit more conservative. 4. now, looking for some accessability tools to check to see if my pages pass all vallidation, for people with all sorts of disabilities, like colour blind, colour dependent, flickering, and passes all vallidation via w3c, and also section 508. can you suggest some tools, and also, to check for correct colour, broken links, and maybe off line, as not always on the net, so i could download and run andcheck off line, as editing off line at the moment. if you can help, or pass on my message maybe to some of those that you do know, that could help, let me know asap. 5. Now, when i read using the paragraph mode, when i go to my headings and list of links, the navigation and the Other links, read all in one list, but on the Star Trek Links , they read one at a time using paragraph mode. How can i get all the links to read the same on the page? cheers Marvin. -- http://startrekcafe.stevesdomain.net/ http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/JawsOz/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tag for quotes
This question was asked less a week ago, here was my reply: The W3C has an example of the use of the cite and quote elements here: http://www.w3.org/People/mimasa/test/xhtml2/spec-examples/mod-text/cite -ex01.xhtml Or you can read all about quotations here: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/text.html#h-9.2.2 You could avoid the blockquote and use a paragraph depending on the length of the quoted text. Only use the q element if it is an inline quote (i.e., a short quote). If you want a lengthy quote, use the blockquote. An inline quote example: code pcite cite=http://www.comany-url.com;Company XYZ says/cite q lang=us-enYou are the best!/q/p /code A block level quote example (as Mike indicated above): code blockquote pI have a lot of things to say about this guy. He's done a really great job! cite cite=http://www.company-url.com;--- Company XYZ/cite/p /blockquote /code You can also add an anchor around the company name if you want to link to their website. I don't believe the cite *attribute* (as opposed to *element*or 'tag') is compulsory if you're not referring to an online source, but I'm not entirely certain. Jason On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 2:15 AM, Rob Enslin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's pretty clear. Many thanks Robert, David and Rahul. 2008/5/20 Rahul Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 20-May-08, at 8:43 PM, Rob Enslin wrote: Please could someone help me decide which is the most appropriate tag to use with quotes? The most appropriate tag to use is the blockquote element. I would mark up your content like so: blockquote pLIW 2007 was a great show for Technogym. We showcased an exciting 7 new products which our customers loved. LIW is a great event to help us showcase our products and present our latest solutions to the market!/p pciteTECHNOGYM UK LTD/cite/p /blockquote q The q element should be used for [...] short quotations (inline content) that don't require paragraph breaks. [1]. cite The cite element (or citation) is used to specify the source of the quote, and to use it to mark up a quote would be semantically incorrect. [2] Best, - Rahul. [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/text.html#h-9.2.2 [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/text.html#h-9.2.1 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Rob Enslin http://enslin.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Definition lists for testimonials
The W3C has an example of the use of the cite and quote elements here: http://www.w3.org/People/mimasa/test/xhtml2/spec-examples/mod-text/cite-ex01.xhtml Or you can read all about quotations here: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/text.html#h-9.2.2 You could avoid the blockquote and use a paragraph depending on the length of the quoted text. Only use the q element if it is an inline quote (i.e., a short quote). If you want a lengthy quote, use the blockquote. An inline quote example: code pcite cite=http://www.comany-url.com;Company XYZ says/cite q lang=us-enYou are the best!/q/p /code A block level quote example (as Mike indicated above): code blockquote pI have a lot of things to say about this guy. He's done a really great job! cite cite=http://www.company-url.com;--- Company XYZ/cite/p /blockquote /code You can also add an anchor around the company name if you want to link to their website. I don't believe the cite *attribute* (as opposed to *element*or 'tag') is compulsory if you're not referring to an online source, but I'm not entirely certain. Jason On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 5:14 AM, Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 13 May 2008, at 19:48, Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: Don't forget the cite element too. If a source isn't online you wouldn't use the cite attribute, but the element will still help with proper attribution. Mike, you're bang on the money: I had indeed completely forgotten about the cite element, and it's just the tool for the job here. And thanks for confirming what I already suspected -- that the list was over-egging the pudding. Peculiarly, I immediately (in shame) went to O'Reilly's 'HTML XHTML - The Definitive Guide' to refresh my memory about the cite element and discovered that it appears to not be listed in the index at all. Attribute: yes, element: no. Weird. Thanks again, and to everyone else who responded. -- Rick Lecoat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Printing CSS background
Hi Leo, If you create a print.css and link your pages to it, you should be able to control which elements are visible and which ones aren't in the print out. However, you would normally want a clean text-only, but well styled print option. This helps to create a nice paper publication while saving on ink by focusing on content and eliminating images which are there purely for design and getting rid of unwanted navigation menus which serve no purpose in the paper publication. It may be worthwhile mentioning to your client the reason behind having a mostly text only print option. Images which relate to the article should be kept, and if the company wants their logo to appear somewhere you can style that in with the print.css, but make it invisible in the web version. There isn't much reason to have all the images and navigation appear on the print out, unless your client needs them for some particular reason. Hopefully this answers your question! Jason On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 12:03 AM, Léo Siqueira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, i know, i know, just check the option at page setup from your browser to print background and images, but, what make when you client consumer does understand this simple step ? I have a new redesign from a website, all HTML strict and CSS validated, beautiful, but don't print the background images from all website. I already search and research a way to make this simple, but i found only a solution that´s not the best choice: http://www.web-graphics.com/mtarchive/001703.php Someone have a suggestion to make CSS background printable ? Or other technique like generate PDF ? The website is based on JAVA development... So, that it, wait for your comments !!! Regards for all !!! Thanks ! :D []´s Léo Siqueira [EMAIL PROTECTED] +551991112239 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Older Browsers
As a web designer, you should test your website in both current and older browser versions (within reason!) - and get your friends to look at it on their systems as well. This will help you see if there are colour inconsistencies as well as coding ones. Unless you are designing for an intranet and know exactly which browser and version your client is using, you need to test it with as many different configurations as you can. In this particular case, I would probably advise the client to update their web browser to the latest version. If they had a previous website and you are able to view the statistics for it, you can let your client know that x% of visitors are using browsers x, y and z. Chances are, very few are still using IE5. Jason On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 3:46 PM, chris | chrisbuttery.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I'm relatively new to this group this is my first post. So here goes. I just had an issue where i developed a prototype site for a client that worked perfectly across several browsers (IE7, Firefox, Opera, Safari Netscape). The client sent me a screen shot of the site taken from their browser ( IE5...which i don't have ) that basically displayed a mangled site. I was able to fix the site through a series of screen shots supplied from the client, but it's obviously not a professional way of doing things. My question to you guys is how do you develop test your websites to ensure they are interpreted correctly by older more popular browsers ? Do you have older browsers handy to test them with? Thanks Chris *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
