[WSG] XHTML 2.0 Browser
Hey guys. I remember seeing this a while back, but for the life of me I can't find it now. It's an experimental browser that supports everything currently included in the XHTML 2.0 spec. Does anyone know what it's called? -Noa * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Font Sizes
YoYoEtc wrote: Just wanted to make a comment - criticism perhaps - of the size of the print/text I see on some web sites I have visited. Honestly, I am not old and I almost need a magnifying glass to see some of it. Sometimes it seems that the designer has tried to cram as much as is humanly possible on to one screen - and these appear to be experienced designers. Initially, I thought perhaps it was because I was using a four-year old monitor. Well, I bought a new computer just four months ago, along with a new 19-inch monitor - and nothing has changed! Is it a new trend to try to make fonts as microscopic as possible? To me, that would be against any feasible standard of good usability. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * There's a good lesson there: use relative font sizes, so people's user defined style sheets don't break your page. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] XHTML transitional is a half-way house [WAS] Ten questions for Anne van Kesteren
Document Type Definition. It defines what all the tags mean. YoYoEtc wrote: What is DTD? At 09:03 PM 5/5/2004, Chris Bentley wrote: On 05/05/2004, at 10:09 PM, Patrick Griffiths wrote: I thought XHTML transitional _is_ XML. In what way is XHTML transitional is a less strict data format? It's a transition. It's a half-way house between HTML 4 and XHTML as it is intended (XHTML Strict). No its not. There is no such thing as a half-way house between HTML 4 and XHTML. XHTML defines a reformulation of HTML 4 as an XML 1.0 application, and three DTDs corresponding to the ones defined by HTML 4 http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/REC-xhtml1-20020801/#abstract The difference between a strict and a transitionl DTD (eg HTML4.01 Strict and HTML4.01 Transitional) is that the strict DTD has depreciated elements and attributes removed.. Extensible HTML version 1.0 Transitional DTD - This is the same as HTML 4 Transitional except for changes due to the differences between XML and SGML. http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/REC-xhtml1-20020801/dtds.html#a_dtd_XHTML -1.0-Transitional Cheers, Chris * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Using span
Gabriel Vasquez wrote: Hi List! Ever since I've been using the standards approach to web design, I've never used spans at all. What's the point of using them? Thanks for your input! Gabriel --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.673 / Virus Database: 435 - Release Date: 5/1/2004 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * Well, span is an inline element. You can use it for describing words or pieces of text that don't nessecerily have to consist of an entire block. p span id=presidentGeorge W. Bush/span is the president of the span id=countryUnited States/span. /p Granted, there are many inline elements for specific purposes (code, pre, q, etc), but it's best to keep things semantic as this is, in essence, XML. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Request: Is it semantically correct?
Cb2 Web Design wrote: Hello list, I have been dealing with some ways of having box borders other than the regular ones... Can you please tell me if this attempt is semantically correct and if it has too much nested divs? Example: http://cb2web.com/tests/testboxmodel.htm CSS: http://cb2web.com/tests/coolboxes.css Thank you in advance for your help and eventual sugestions... Carlos * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * Well, labling your classes with 'coolbox' isn't semantic, it's presentational. Other than that, I don't see any problem with using that nested div structure, as long as all elements relate to a distinctive bit of content. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Custom DTD's to allow target attribute? Yuck
Nelson Ford wrote: The reason I brought this up was not because I had been seeing a lot of that talk on this list, but more on some forums on the internet where a standards beginner asks a question and someone pipes up: Just change the DTD and we can all validate! [insert south park smile here]... which I find kind of frightening. I think this is a really interesting and pertinent topic at this point as XHTML and CSS start to become the rule rather than the exception. I wasn't even sure if browsers actually read the DTD to allow this to work. The only thing that makes XHTML something slightly different from XML is it's DTD. Take away or alter this DTD and you no longer have XHTML, but rather (in my case) NFML. Both languages are XML based, but they have different semantic meanings for the same tags, if mine allows for p's to contain lists. The definition of semantics from dictionary.com is: The study of relationships between signs and symbols and what they represent. So p's represent paragraphs and ul's represent unordered lists. Most people understand a paragraph to be a block of text, not a list, so if my interpretation is correct, making that change to a DTD would be detrimental to the semantics of the markup language. Another problem with that is that the purpose of the XML-based XHTML (and WAP 2.0 which is a slightly stripped-down version of XHTML 1.1) is to allow for the display of the same documents across all kind of platforms and screen sizes. Making changes like that could harm XHTML's ability to achieve that goal as well, because the way XHTML behaves has taken years of tweaking and thought by a dedicated team. In many ways it's similar to mutations in DNA Except that mutations are random, but this is not. It is kind of like deciding we all start genetically engineering our children, some with 4 legs, some who are 11 feet tall , suddenly none of the standards, like doorways that are roughly 8-9 feet high, pants with 2 legs etc will work for the majority. It will breed chaos. Bizarre example, but I guess my point is that if we want to be changing the DTD's, we shouldn't be pretending it is still XHTML. Nelson --- Vancouver, BC www.nelsonford.net Making a custom doctype to include one of XHTML 1.1's many modules does not make your code automatically valid. Why would the W3C make these modules available if not for use in custom DTDs? For something like the target attribute, semantics aren't an issue. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] small css question
Paul Ingraham wrote:
So it looks the answer to my original question is, Yes, to center an image
using css, it really is necessary to wrap it in a block level element with
text-style:center defined. Huh!
No, it isn't. As Nelson suggested, using {display : block; margin : 0
auto;} you're not wrapping the img in anything extra, but rather you are
turning the img itself into a block.
Yep. That do indeed work. I didn't believe it until I tried it, and I'm
still not sure I understand it. But it works, and it's clean and simple. I
assumed I was missing something basic and I was right. ;-)
So setting the left and right margins as auto magically accomplishes
centering... because if they're both auto, then they must be equal, and the
only way to have both left and right margins equal is to center the object.
Sweet. I did NOT see that coming. Elegant, but not obvious. Exactly what I
was hoping for.
Thanks! I am only an egg. This has been a good (and useful) introduction
to the list.
Cheers,
Paul
p.s. I'll buy a beer for the first person who correctly identifies the egg
reference. :-) Of course, you'll have to come to Vancouver for it...
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Stranger in a Strange Land, OBVIOUSLY. *rolls eyes*
That's a great trick, too.. simplicity all the way.
-Noa
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[WSG] CSS Tables
Hey everyone, I've been reading this list for a couple weeks and this is my first time posting. I've got a question about something I've been working on recently. I'm pretty sure it's a lost cause, but I might as well ask. I recently converted a directory lister script from using table tags to using CSS styled tables (display:table), and I've noticed that there is no provision for a colspan attribute. This makes sense, because tables are for displaying tabular data and not for fancy headers, but I want to do it anyway. Basically I want to make the first cell (that displays the path) maintain the entire table's width without effecting the other columns' width as it does in the table version. Note, I have a user agent switch, since CSS tables don't work with IE, for displaying the old tables or the new display:tables accordingly. Here's an example: http://eastsdomain.com/test/ . Thanks! -Noa * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS Tables
The only advantage I can tell is that it just doesn't use any table or td or tr tags, which I have an irrational hatred towards. I've done what you suggested, but the problem is that I can't make the header have the same width as the table. I've tried using a containing box, but then the header stretches unnaturally off to the right past the table, I'm not sure why. It's not a problem with a practical application, really, but thanks for replying. Is there an advantage of using css tables over regular tables? I'd just use a normal one as that'll do the job well, with no need for agent-switching, etc. That said, if you want to use css.. you could just seperate the header from the table, give it a seperate class and set the width accordingly. B Noa Groveman wrote: Hey everyone, I've been reading this list for a couple weeks and this is my first time posting. I've got a question about something I've been working on recently. I'm pretty sure it's a lost cause, but I might as well ask. I recently converted a directory lister script from using table tags to using CSS styled tables (display:table), and I've noticed that there is no provision for a colspan attribute. This makes sense, because tables are for displaying tabular data and not for fancy headers, but I want to do it anyway. Basically I want to make the first cell (that displays the path) maintain the entire table's width without effecting the other columns' width as it does in the table version. Note, I have a user agent switch, since CSS tables don't work with IE, for displaying the old tables or the new display:tables accordingly. Here's an example: http://eastsdomain.com/test/ . Thanks! -Noa * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS Tables
Well, the IE version of the table displays the way I want (view it by simply visiting http://eastsdomain.com/test/ with IE - I also made a static version of this page in case you're running nix - listed below). The only problem is that it uses tables. I know it seems unreasonable, but I've come this far (the user agent scheme isn't as much of a bother as it sounds) and I want to see if I can emulate HTML tables completely. There is one possibly practical application for this: XML. If I parse the directories and spit out XML it would be easy to build a site map and style it. In that case, I would emneed/em to use CSS tables. Here's a static version of the table (with the colspan header): http://eastsdomain.com/test/table1.htm And a static version of the CSS tables: http://eastsdomain.com/test/table2.htm (notice the difference in file size as well) -Noa Justin French wrote: I don't get it. I don't think you need to use display:table to achieve what you want, but then again, it's not all that clear what you want. Why not post a table-version with a layout you like, then we can have a look at what to do from there. Remember, it may still be appropriate to use a table (if it's tabular data), and it may also be worth thinking outside the box, taking advantage of CSS's strengths, rather than wasting life emulating table behaviour in CSS. --- Justin French http://indent.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
