Re: [WSG] Select form element doesnt validate
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:42:32 +1000, Michael Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True, Patrick, it's not a teaching tool. But you do need to be able to find out what is correct if it says it's wrong. It is not a teaching tool. Using any tool you must have an idea what it is doing. That means if validator checks document for conformance with specification and DTD you should know them both. ... As it is, it's a bit like when your dad whacked you as a kid for doing something wrong. You wailed what was that for? and he says you did something wrong - something to do with your clothes. and he wont tell you that you should have picked your clothes up off the bathroom floor after your shower. In my book that's poor parenting, and I think it would be a very simple task for W3C to add a link to the correct syntax somewhere in that validator tool. Well, validator is not your dad it is your tax inspection. You had a link to document describing correct syntax. That very same general document. To be more precise: 4.2. Element and attribute names must be in lower case(http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#h-4.2 ) and 4.5. Attribute Minimization (http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#h-4.5). I can see any need to repeat it for every attribute XHTML describes. Those are general rules and apply to all attributes. Now another possibility is that I couldn't see a link to the correct syntax that was right there in front of my face. Well after searching the validator results page for 30 minutes I couldn't see it, and if there was such a link, it's not very well designed. It ought to be obvious. So ... where DO I find a reference document showing the correct syntax for XHTML tags? Try this section: http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#dtds. It provides links to DTD's, which describe what you want. Warning: DTDs may be more difficult to read and understand, so I suggest to read the spec first. Regards, Rimantas ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Select form element doesnt validate
G'day If you find the output from the validator puzzling and are looking for the tool to provide clearer answers, suggest you take it up with the people who provide the tool. Having said that... The elements, attributes and values are defined in the DTD ( http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd ): !ELEMENT option (#PCDATA) !-- selectable choice -- !ATTLIST option %attrs; selected(selected) #IMPLIED disabled(disabled) #IMPLIED label %Text; #IMPLIED value CDATA #IMPLIED If you don't understand the DTD (it can be a bit hard to read) there are other sites, like www.zvon.org which has (downloadable and lookup) references and tutorials for xhtml, CSS, DOM, Dublin Core and much much more. It says (in their xhtml reference): Attribute: selected Parent: option Values: selected Regards -- Bert Doorn, Better Web Design www.bwdzine.com Fast-loading, user-friendly websites ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Select form element doesnt validate
I'm trying to validate a page, and I'm getting this error. Line 183, column 28: the name and VI delimiter can be omitted from an attribute specification only if SHORTTAG YES is specified And also .. Line 184, column 29: there is no attribute SELECTED I have two problems with this . I tried to find what the syntax of this should be, and couldn't find a link anywhere to the actual syntax definition. I don't know what a VI Delimiter is, and looked for a definition. I'd have thought that W3C would have it somewhere linked to the validator, but not where I can see. And also I was sure that SELECTED=selected was correct, but apparently not. Again I looked for the dinkum definition but couldn't find it. Anyone know where it is? Here's the code for the offending form element involved: label for=ReferredbyReferred By:/labelselect id=Referredby name=Referredby option value=0 selectedSearch Engine/option option value=5 SELECTED = Selected Heard about the site on the radio/option option value=1 Web Ring/option option value=2 E-Mail/option option value=3 Friend/option option value=4 Just Surfed In/option /select Cheers Mike Kear AFP Webworks Windsor, NSW, Australia http://afpwebworks.com .com, .net, .org etc domains start at A$20/year ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Select form element doesnt validate
Michael Kear wrote: snip / Here's the code for the offending form element involved: label for=ReferredbyReferred By:/labelselect id=Referredby name=Referredby option value=0 selectedSearch Engine/option option value=5 SELECTED = Selected Heard about the site on the radio/option option value=1 Web Ring/option option value=2 E-Mail/option option value=3 Friend/option option value=4 Just Surfed In/option /select I assume you're validating to XHTML...if so, all attributes need to be lower case. so: option value=5 SELECTED = Selected Heard about the site on the radio/option should be: option value=5 selected=Selected Heard about the site on the radio/option HTH Darren www.webdeveloper.co.nz ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Select form element doesnt validate
Ok, I figured out by trial and error that SELECTED=selected is wrong, but selected=selected is correct, but I still don't see a link anywhere to the correct syntax. I figure if a validator is going to say that's wrong they ought to provide a link so you can find out what's right. Don't you think? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com .com,.net,.org domains from AUD$20/Year -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Kear Sent: Tuesday, 26 October 2004 9:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Select form element doesnt validate I'm trying to validate a page, and I'm getting this error. Line 183, column 28: the name and VI delimiter can be omitted from an attribute specification only if SHORTTAG YES is specified And also .. Line 184, column 29: there is no attribute SELECTED I have two problems with this . I tried to find what the syntax of this should be, and couldn't find a link anywhere to the actual syntax definition. I don't know what a VI Delimiter is, and looked for a definition. I'd have thought that W3C would have it somewhere linked to the validator, but not where I can see. And also I was sure that SELECTED=selected was correct, but apparently not. Again I looked for the dinkum definition but couldn't find it. Anyone know where it is? Here's the code for the offending form element involved: label for=ReferredbyReferred By:/labelselect id=Referredby name=Referredby option value=0 selectedSearch Engine/option option value=5 SELECTED = Selected Heard about the site on the radio/option option value=1 Web Ring/option option value=2 E-Mail/option option value=3 Friend/option option value=4 Just Surfed In/option /select Cheers Mike Kear AFP Webworks Windsor, NSW, Australia http://afpwebworks.com .com, .net, .org etc domains start at A$20/year ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Select form element doesnt validate
Michael Kear wrote: And also I was sure that SELECTED=selected was correct, but apparently not. Again I looked for the dinkum definition but couldn't find it. Anyone know where it is? Your syntax is correct, it's just a matter of case: selected=selected would be correct (lower case). One of the most common validation snags (along with unencoded ampersands) is not making all attributes lowercase. It crops up a lot with JavaScript event handlers which have traditionally been written as onClick or onLoad instead of onclick or onload (which is why one of the positive side-effects to moving all event handlers out of the document altogether is fewer validation snags). HTH, Jeremy -- Jeremy Keith a d a c t i o http://adactio.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Select form element doesnt validate
Michael Kear wrote: I figure if a validator is going to say that's wrong they ought to provide a link so you can find out what's right. Don't you think? There are no less than 2 links to the exact specification of the doctype your document purports to use (one at the top, in the form, just next to the dropdown where you can force a different doctype, and one in the big brown/red bar that tells you when something is not valid). Also, the actual error messages are quite verbose if you read them properly. For example, in the case of there is no attribute type errors, you have, among other things: How to fix: check the spelling and case of the element and attribute, (Remember XHTML is all lower-case) and/or check that they are both allowed in the chosen document type, and/or use CSS instead of this attribute. (and yes, in this case it was the lower-case issue that was to blame). Beyond that, it's a validating tool, not a teaching tool... Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Select form element doesnt validate
True, Patrick, it's not a teaching tool. But you do need to be able to find out what is correct if it says it's wrong. The link in the big red bar doesn't link to a syntax reference at all, but a general document about XHTML and changes from html etc. I was looking for something to tell me specifically what is the valid syntax for a drop down select box, and I couldn't find one. Still can't. Can anyone tell me where to find the specific syntax for a select dropdown? Or any other tag?You can't find it from the validator page, and I'd have thought you ought to be able to. As it is, it's a bit like when your dad whacked you as a kid for doing something wrong. You wailed what was that for? and he says you did something wrong - something to do with your clothes. and he wont tell you that you should have picked your clothes up off the bathroom floor after your shower. In my book that's poor parenting, and I think it would be a very simple task for W3C to add a link to the correct syntax somewhere in that validator tool. Now another possibility is that I couldn't see a link to the correct syntax that was right there in front of my face. Well after searching the validator results page for 30 minutes I couldn't see it, and if there was such a link, it's not very well designed. It ought to be obvious. So ... where DO I find a reference document showing the correct syntax for XHTML tags? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com .com,.net,.org domains from AUD$20/Year -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke Sent: Tuesday, 26 October 2004 11:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Select form element doesnt validate Michael Kear wrote: I figure if a validator is going to say that's wrong they ought to provide a link so you can find out what's right. Don't you think? There are no less than 2 links to the exact specification of the doctype your document purports to use (one at the top, in the form, just next to the dropdown where you can force a different doctype, and one in the big brown/red bar that tells you when something is not valid). Also, the actual error messages are quite verbose if you read them properly. For example, in the case of there is no attribute type errors, you have, among other things: How to fix: check the spelling and case of the element and attribute, (Remember XHTML is all lower-case) and/or check that they are both allowed in the chosen document type, and/or use CSS instead of this attribute. (and yes, in this case it was the lower-case issue that was to blame). Beyond that, it's a validating tool, not a teaching tool... Patrick H. Lauke ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
