RE: [WSG] Teaching CSS
Can I just mention, that if you can possibly find the time, then _do_ try and teach things to your colleague; nothing else is as good for ironing out any issues in your own knowledge as having someone else saying but why? This may sound daft, but trust me, it always works for me. Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Teaching CSS - THANK YOU!
Just a short note of thanks to all for weighing in on my question about teaching CSS. I've taken all suggestions and book recommendations on board which I'm sure will assist the needs of this challenge! Best regards to all! Cole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Teaching CSS
I have just brought the 101 tricks and tips guide by SitePoint and have read the sample chapters. I also got a free css cheat sheet which could be handy. I have not yet read or looked at the other books mentioned. A number of SitePoint books on CSS seem pretty good - based upon their sample-chapters download – but before I spend US$40 on one, has anyone here used them? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Teaching CSS
Cole Kuryakin wrote: Besides a book, are there any on-line, step-by-step “foundation to penthouse” curriculum course that anyone knows about and TRUSTS by experience? Thanks to all for weighing through this windy post; and advance appreciation to all who care to comment. I'm guessing, that as a designer, you're a visual learner, so may I suggest a different offering by Eric Meyer: CSS Web Site Design - Hands On Training. http://tinyurl.com/3yeqyb 60 step by step tutorials, and the accompanying CD has videos. If you, or your designer are more book learners, then Stylin with CSS http://tinyurl.com/2nd2yf is a good read with a designer slant. after that there are dozens more good books on mastering CSS. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Teaching CSS
On 3/17/07, Cole Kuryakin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With that lengthy pre-amble, I've got to ask – is there a GREAT book out there that steps through the learning process of CSS right from the bare bones that both I and my new artist can use? You're going to get lots of recommendations for great books. I don't know if there is one book that will suit exactly what you have in mind, so you may have to invest in a few volumes for your library. One title that I like a lot, that may be useful if your designer is used to doing things the old-school table-based way, is Dan Cederholm's Bulletproof Web Design. It outlines common problems, the old-school solution, and how the same thing can be done better with CSS and good markup. Good luck! K. -- Kay Smoljak business: www.cleverstarfish.com standards: kay.zombiecoder.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: goatlady.wordpress.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Teaching CSS
On 3/17/07, Cole Kuryakin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With that lengthy pre-amble, I've got to ask – is there a GREAT book out there that steps through the learning process of CSS right from the bare bones that both I and my new artist can use? One book that I've heard great things about for absolute beginners (and that teaches the right way to do things) is Ian Lloyd's Sitepoint book, Build Your Own Web Site The Right Way Using HTML CSS: http://www.sitepoint.com/books/html1/ I've not read it myself, but I'd absolutely trust Ian to do things the right way. Matthew. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Teaching CSS
Cole, I'm not sure that we can all fully understand CSS especially with browser technology changing but here are some books that have helped me. Like you, I haven't had the time to truly dig into it. CSS Mastery by Andy BuddISBN 1-59059-614-5 Site Point HTML Utopia Designing Without Tables by Dan Shafer ISBN 0-9579218-2-9 Site Point The CSS Anthology by Rachel Andrew ISBN 0-9579218-8-8 Eric Meyer On CSS More Eric Meyer On CSS The one that helped me the most I think was HTML Utopia Designing Without Tables Hope this helps, Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cole Kuryakin Sent: 03/17/2007 12:48 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Teaching CSS Importance: High Hello All - My background for the past 27 years has been in design. 6 years ago I realized the (financial) necessity to begin learning web design. 3 years after that came the next leap into HTML/PHP/CSS. So far, so good - well, most of the time anyway. I've always been a one-man-band, but now I'm finding myself much busier than I can handle by myself so I've had to take on another designer who, while quite good at his art, has never really been fully and satisfactorily exposed to the fundamentals of CSS. So, I've got to teach him. And that's the problem. While my knowledge of CSS has gotten me through each project, and each sheet validates, I still consider myself a learner as I've never had much time to really, really, really understand the box model and other fundamentals that, lord knows, I SHOULD understand completely by now. I've learned what I know just via various internet sites and through the help and guidance of wonderful groups like the WSG. So, I'm at a crossroads. how can I teach something that I don't feel 100% competent in? But the clock is ticking; clients are waiting, and my freelance artist is calling asking humm, this is breaking. how should I fix it? To which I respond . Ah, humm. let me get back to you on that - and a new email flies out to the good folks in this great group for help. With that lengthy pre-amble, I've got to ask - is there a GREAT book out there that steps through the learning process of CSS right from the bare bones that both I and my new artist can use? Not theoretical stuff, but hand-on, simply-put, illustrative? There are a lot of books out there I know, but I need a great one, that's very specific about explaining all the fundamentals of the box model all the way up. I want to complexly stay away from books that promote or talk about css hacks however (I've been using conditional comments and IE specific sheets to deal with these problems with 100% success). A number of SitePoint books on CSS seem pretty good - based upon their sample-chapters download - but before I spend US$40 on one, has anyone here used them? Besides a book, are there any on-line, step-by-step foundation to penthouse curriculum course that anyone knows about and TRUSTS by experience? Thanks to all for weighing through this windy post; and advance appreciation to all who care to comment. Cole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Teaching CSS
Hi I agree with all the comments made so far. The book(s) that helped me the most get my head around CSS and it's applied techniques were: Web Standards Solutions: Dan Cederholm CSS Mastery, Advanced Web Standard Solutions: Andy Budd Designing With Web Standards: Jeffrey Zeldman (new version just came off the press) Although the Zeldman book isn't a pure CSS guide it helps anyone understand the fundamentals of why they work with CSS instead of old FONT tags. Hope this helps. Lee On 17 Mar 2007, at 05:47, Cole Kuryakin wrote: Hello All – My background for the past 27 years has been in design. 6 years ago I realized the (financial) necessity to begin learning web design. 3 years after that came the next leap into HTML/PHP/CSS. So far, so good – well, most of the time anyway. I’ve always been a one-man-band, but now I’m finding myself much busier than I can handle by myself so I’ve had to take on another designer who, while quite good at his art, has never really been fully and satisfactorily exposed to the fundamentals of CSS. So, I’ve got to teach him. And that’s the problem. While my knowledge of CSS has gotten me through each project, and each sheet validates, I still consider myself a “learner” as I’ve never had much time to really, really, really “understand” the box model and other fundamentals that, lord knows, I SHOULD understand completely by now. I’ve learned what I know just via various internet sites and through the help and guidance of wonderful groups like the WSG. So, I’m at a crossroads… how can I teach something that I don’t feel 100% competent in? But the clock is ticking; clients are waiting, and my freelance artist is calling asking “humm, this is breaking… how should I fix it?” To which I respond … “Ah, humm… let me get back to you on that” – and a new email flies out to the good folks in this great group for help. With that lengthy pre-amble, I’ve got to ask – is there a GREAT book out there that steps through the learning process of CSS right from the bare bones that both I and my new artist can use? Not theoretical stuff, but hand-on, simply-put, illustrative? There are a lot of books out there I know, but I need a great one, that’s very specific about explaining all the fundamentals of the box model all the way up. I want to complexly stay away from books that promote or talk about css hacks however (I’ve been using conditional comments and IE specific sheets to deal with these problems with 100% success). A number of SitePoint books on CSS seem pretty good - based upon their sample-chapters download – but before I spend US$40 on one, has anyone here used them? Besides a book, are there any on-line, step-by-step “foundation to penthouse” curriculum course that anyone knows about and TRUSTS by experience? Thanks to all for weighing through this windy post; and advance appreciation to all who care to comment. Cole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Teaching CSS
Best learning book I have ever seen or owned on CSS was CSS the Missing Manual by David Sawyer McFarland published by Pogue Press / O'Reilly. The book is a great book for beginners especially as it walks you through many of the real world problems. The thing is it does cover a lot of the Hacks including the box model hack from IE5 Kevin J. Lennon Lake Area Webs http://www.lakeareawebs.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lee Powell Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 11:27 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Teaching CSS Importance: High Hi I agree with all the comments made so far. The book(s) that helped me the most get my head around CSS and it's applied techniques were: Web Standards Solutions: Dan Cederholm CSS Mastery, Advanced Web Standard Solutions: Andy Budd Designing With Web Standards: Jeffrey Zeldman (new version just came off the press) Although the Zeldman book isn't a pure CSS guide it helps anyone understand the fundamentals of why they work with CSS instead of old FONT tags. Hope this helps. Lee On 17 Mar 2007, at 05:47, Cole Kuryakin wrote: Hello All - My background for the past 27 years has been in design. 6 years ago I realized the (financial) necessity to begin learning web design. 3 years after that came the next leap into HTML/PHP/CSS. So far, so good - well, most of the time anyway. I've always been a one-man-band, but now I'm finding myself much busier than I can handle by myself so I've had to take on another designer who, while quite good at his art, has never really been fully and satisfactorily exposed to the fundamentals of CSS. So, I've got to teach him. And that's the problem. While my knowledge of CSS has gotten me through each project, and each sheet validates, I still consider myself a learner as I've never had much time to really, really, really understand the box model and other fundamentals that, lord knows, I SHOULD understand completely by now. I've learned what I know just via various internet sites and through the help and guidance of wonderful groups like the WSG. So, I'm at a crossroads. how can I teach something that I don't feel 100% competent in? But the clock is ticking; clients are waiting, and my freelance artist is calling asking humm, this is breaking. how should I fix it? To which I respond . Ah, humm. let me get back to you on that - and a new email flies out to the good folks in this great group for help. With that lengthy pre-amble, I've got to ask - is there a GREAT book out there that steps through the learning process of CSS right from the bare bones that both I and my new artist can use? Not theoretical stuff, but hand-on, simply-put, illustrative? There are a lot of books out there I know, but I need a great one, that's very specific about explaining all the fundamentals of the box model all the way up. I want to complexly stay away from books that promote or talk about css hacks however (I've been using conditional comments and IE specific sheets to deal with these problems with 100% success). A number of SitePoint books on CSS seem pretty good - based upon their sample-chapters download - but before I spend US$40 on one, has anyone here used them? Besides a book, are there any on-line, step-by-step foundation to penthouse curriculum course that anyone knows about and TRUSTS by experience? Thanks to all for weighing through this windy post; and advance appreciation to all who care to comment. Cole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Teaching CSS
Hello All - My background for the past 27 years has been in design. 6 years ago I realized the (financial) necessity to begin learning web design. 3 years after that came the next leap into HTML/PHP/CSS. So far, so good - well, most of the time anyway. I've always been a one-man-band, but now I'm finding myself much busier than I can handle by myself so I've had to take on another designer who, while quite good at his art, has never really been fully and satisfactorily exposed to the fundamentals of CSS. So, I've got to teach him. And that's the problem. While my knowledge of CSS has gotten me through each project, and each sheet validates, I still consider myself a learner as I've never had much time to really, really, really understand the box model and other fundamentals that, lord knows, I SHOULD understand completely by now. I've learned what I know just via various internet sites and through the help and guidance of wonderful groups like the WSG. So, I'm at a crossroads. how can I teach something that I don't feel 100% competent in? But the clock is ticking; clients are waiting, and my freelance artist is calling asking humm, this is breaking. how should I fix it? To which I respond . Ah, humm. let me get back to you on that - and a new email flies out to the good folks in this great group for help. With that lengthy pre-amble, I've got to ask - is there a GREAT book out there that steps through the learning process of CSS right from the bare bones that both I and my new artist can use? Not theoretical stuff, but hand-on, simply-put, illustrative? There are a lot of books out there I know, but I need a great one, that's very specific about explaining all the fundamentals of the box model all the way up. I want to complexly stay away from books that promote or talk about css hacks however (I've been using conditional comments and IE specific sheets to deal with these problems with 100% success). A number of SitePoint books on CSS seem pretty good - based upon their sample-chapters download - but before I spend US$40 on one, has anyone here used them? Besides a book, are there any on-line, step-by-step foundation to penthouse curriculum course that anyone knows about and TRUSTS by experience? Thanks to all for weighing through this windy post; and advance appreciation to all who care to comment. Cole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Teaching CSS
Cole Kuryakin wrote: Hello All – My background for the past 27 years has been in design. 6 years ago I realized the (financial) necessity to begin learning web design. 3 years after that came the next leap into HTML/PHP/CSS. So far, so good – well, most of the time anyway. I’ve always been a one-man-band, but now I’m finding myself much busier than I can handle by myself so I’ve had to take on another designer who, while quite good at his art, has never really been fully and satisfactorily exposed to the fundamentals of CSS. So, I’ve got to teach him. And that’s the problem. While my knowledge of CSS has gotten me through each project, and each sheet validates, I still consider myself a “learner” as I’ve never had much time to really, really, really “understand” the box model and other fundamentals that, lord knows, I SHOULD understand completely by now. I’ve learned what I know just via various internet sites and through the help and guidance of wonderful groups like the WSG. So, I’m at a crossroads… how can I teach something that I don’t feel 100% competent in? But the clock is ticking; clients are waiting, and my freelance artist is calling asking “humm, this is breaking… how should I fix it?” To which I respond … “Ah, humm… let me get back to you on that” – and a new email flies out to the good folks in this great group for help. With that lengthy pre-amble, I’ve got to ask – is there a GREAT book out there that steps through the learning process of CSS right from the bare bones that both I and my new artist can use? Not theoretical stuff, but hand-on, simply-put, illustrative? There are a lot of books out there I know, but I need a great one, that’s very specific about explaining all the fundamentals of the box model all the way up. I want to complexly stay away from books that promote or talk about css hacks however (I’ve been using conditional comments and IE specific sheets to deal with these problems with 100% success). css the definitive guide by eric meyer. you can get the book through amazon or o'reilly press or another local book vendor (maybe). hth, dwain *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
