Re: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar
Hi everyone, I just signed on to this list today and just set up a new filter and corralled all the messages. I would like to download this new toolbar for accessibility testing. Everyone's talking about it but I couldn't find a url - anyone? I'm mainly here to lurk 'n learn, don't tend to be very chatty but just thought i'd say a few words and see if i could get that toolbar! :-) TIA and thanks to the list admin and thanks to all the regular contributors. warm regards, Donna Jones Lee Roberts wrote: Congratulations to NILS for such a fantastic tool. Your use of the simulator is perfection and can help people understand how others view their web sites. Steven, I thank you and your fellow programmers. Lee Roberts http://www.roserockdesign.com http://www.applepiecart.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 7:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar The reasons why the new version of the web accessibility toolbar is IE only: 1. there was a gap in the market, no tools comparable to those available for mozilla were/are available for IE 2. our programming expertise is limited (if somebody wants to work with us on versions for other browsers/operating systems we'd be interested) 3. our resources are very limited as this project is unfunded so we work on it between paid work and in our spare time. 4. while some people realise that there are better browsers than IE out there, their uptake is still very small , and my original idea was to raise awareness of accessibility issues and provide the tools to the masses. 5. For better or worse many assistive technology users use IE for web browsing, so i tend to use it for accessibility testing and browsing due to this circumstance. 6. What time I have had to work on developing the toolbar has so far been directed at improving the functionality and collaborating with others to create versions in other languages. with regards Steven Faulkner Web Accessibility Consultant National Information Library Service (NILS) 454 Glenferrie Road Kooyong Victoria 3144 Phone: (613) 9864 9281 Fax: (613) 9864 9210 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] National Information Library Service A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * -- Donna Jones, 772-0266 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar
At 07:15 on Wednesday, 14 Jul 2004, Donna Jones wrote: Hi everyone, I just signed on to this list today and just set up a new filter and corralled all the messages. I would like to download this new toolbar for accessibility testing. Everyone's talking about it but I couldn't find a url - anyone? I'm mainly here to lurk 'n learn, don't tend to be very chatty but just thought i'd say a few words and see if i could get that toolbar! :-) this one? http://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/toolbar/#download hth * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar
Donna, You can get the toolbar at http://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/toolbar/index.html. It's a great tool. Welcome to the group. Enjoy, Lee Roberts -Original Message- From: Donna Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 12:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar Hi everyone, I just signed on to this list today and just set up a new filter and corralled all the messages. I would like to download this new toolbar for accessibility testing. Everyone's talking about it but I couldn't find a url - anyone? I'm mainly here to lurk 'n learn, don't tend to be very chatty but just thought i'd say a few words and see if i could get that toolbar! :-) TIA and thanks to the list admin and thanks to all the regular contributors. warm regards, Donna Jones Lee Roberts wrote: Congratulations to NILS for such a fantastic tool. Your use of the simulator is perfection and can help people understand how others view their web sites. Steven, I thank you and your fellow programmers. Lee Roberts http://www.roserockdesign.com http://www.applepiecart.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 7:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar The reasons why the new version of the web accessibility toolbar is IE only: 1. there was a gap in the market, no tools comparable to those available for mozilla were/are available for IE 2. our programming expertise is limited (if somebody wants to work with us on versions for other browsers/operating systems we'd be interested) 3. our resources are very limited as this project is unfunded so we work on it between paid work and in our spare time. 4. while some people realise that there are better browsers than IE out there, their uptake is still very small , and my original idea was to raise awareness of accessibility issues and provide the tools to the masses. 5. For better or worse many assistive technology users use IE for web browsing, so i tend to use it for accessibility testing and browsing due to this circumstance. 6. What time I have had to work on developing the toolbar has so far been directed at improving the functionality and collaborating with others to create versions in other languages. with regards Steven Faulkner Web Accessibility Consultant National Information Library Service (NILS) 454 Glenferrie Road Kooyong Victoria 3144 Phone: (613) 9864 9281 Fax: (613) 9864 9210 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] National Information Library Service A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * -- Donna Jones, 772-0266 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar
Donna web accessibility toolbar: http://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/toolbar/ with regards Steven Faulkner Web Accessibility Consultant National Information Library Service (NILS) 454 Glenferrie Road Kooyong Victoria 3144 Phone: (613) 9864 9281 Fax: (613) 9864 9210 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] National Information Library Service A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar
Well thanks everyone!! I think I've got it. :-) Donna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Donna web accessibility toolbar: http://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/toolbar/ with regards Steven Faulkner Web Accessibility Consultant National Information Library Service (NILS) 454 Glenferrie Road Kooyong Victoria 3144 Phone: (613) 9864 9281 Fax: (613) 9864 9210 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] National Information Library Service A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * -- Donna Jones, 772-0266 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar
The voices are telling me that Lee Roberts said on 7/13/2004 7:36 PM: Interesting concept there and I'm glad it works. Problem is still the same. No one made a tool for Opera. You just hacked a solution to make it do what you wanted it to do. Without your excellent knowledge and fine instructions the average computer user wouldn't know how to do those things. Actually, if you read closely, what I posted is a way to combine the already existing and excellent web developers' menu by Toby Inkster, which you can get at http://goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?page=10 and Rijk van Geijtenbeek's blog menu. I just included the link to my blog because: (a) I'm a blog pimp, and (b) At least one of y'all is going to want to put on both the blog menu and the W3Dev menu. I know, you *say* you'll never want to, and then I get these whining emails: You broke my blog menu! I hate to be so disagreeable (well, that's a lie, I love it), but in fact there's quite a few neat-o tools for Opera, and with a little effort you can find links to them on Opera's website. Here's one http://www.crispen.org/etc/search.zip they probably won't link to. Opera gets a couple of bucks for having their search menus point to some corporate search engines. You can't begrudge them the money, but there's others I like better. Unzip this in your profile directory for Opera 7.5. -- Rev. Bob Bob Crispen bob at crispen dot org Ex Cathedra Weblog: http://blog.crispen.org/ Don't ask yourself what the world needs - ask yourself what makes you come alive, and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive. -- Howard Thurman * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar
Opera says, Opera has been designed to recognize and work with many plug-ins that work with Netscape. Then in the same paragraph Opera says, If you don't see a certain program listed here, and you would like to know if it works with Opera, please give it a try! People often figure out how to get plug-ins working with Opera by themselves. We also recommend that you visit our plug-ins newsgroup. You may find the answer to your plug-in problem there, or you can post your own solution for how to get specific plug-ins to work with Opera. Further information, Opera says, Before you install a plug-in for use with Opera, you should set up your computer to show all files on your system, including system, hidden, and dynamic link library (.dll) files. This is because most plug-ins will install their own .dll files on your computer, and these are the files you will need to find in order to use the plug-in with Opera. Interesting that Opera tells its users how to hack things to make it work with Opera if Opera does not support it. Again, proof that no plug-in has been designed or developed to work with Opera. All this information is available at http://www.opera.com/support/service/plugins/. The beginning of that page states, This page describes how to get some of the most common plug-ins to work with Opera, and why some of them won't. Since there are thousands of plug-ins and applications out there, please try to contact those who made the plug-in/application to find out if it works with Opera, and how. Interesting that you wish to continue to claim that plug-ins are designed for Opera. That's a major misrepresentation. Opera specifically states it was developed so OPERA works with plug-ins built for other browsers. No, plug-ins have been developed to work specifically with Opera. Lee Roberts http://www.roserockdesign.com http://www.applepiecart.com -Original Message- From: Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 5:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar The voices are telling me that Lee Roberts said on 7/13/2004 7:36 PM: Interesting concept there and I'm glad it works. Problem is still the same. No one made a tool for Opera. You just hacked a solution to make it do what you wanted it to do. Without your excellent knowledge and fine instructions the average computer user wouldn't know how to do those things. Actually, if you read closely, what I posted is a way to combine the already existing and excellent web developers' menu by Toby Inkster, which you can get at http://goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?page=10 and Rijk van Geijtenbeek's blog menu. I just included the link to my blog because: (a) I'm a blog pimp, and (b) At least one of y'all is going to want to put on both the blog menu and the W3Dev menu. I know, you *say* you'll never want to, and then I get these whining emails: You broke my blog menu! I hate to be so disagreeable (well, that's a lie, I love it), but in fact there's quite a few neat-o tools for Opera, and with a little effort you can find links to them on Opera's website. Here's one http://www.crispen.org/etc/search.zip they probably won't link to. Opera gets a couple of bucks for having their search menus point to some corporate search engines. You can't begrudge them the money, but there's others I like better. Unzip this in your profile directory for Opera 7.5. -- Rev. Bob Bob Crispen bob at crispen dot org Ex Cathedra Weblog: http://blog.crispen.org/ Don't ask yourself what the world needs - ask yourself what makes you come alive, and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive. -- Howard Thurman * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar
Just incase none of you have come accross this bt i think its kinda kewl and handy... http://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/toolbar/index.html Have fun! Mark Harwood www.phunky.co.uk * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar
right, but you're TESTING on IE, aren't you? it's nice to have a tool similar to the ff/moz toolbar when you're trying to figure out 'just what the heck is IE thinking?'. thanks Mark. s:r ps - better to take issue with the semantic use of 'kewl', no? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Lee Roberts Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar Egads!!! Just when we're all talking about giving up on IE and using something that really works we get another group of programmers building something for IE. Although I'd like to give it a shot and provide them some feedback, I won't touch it because it's IE-based. It's bad enough everyone thinks they need to do it, but for an accessibility group to do it I'm flabbergasted. Those that try it can provide feedback. I'd love to know what you think. Lee Roberts http://www.roserockdesign.com http://www.applepiecart.com -Original Message- From: Mark Harwood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:29 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar Just incase none of you have come accross this bt i think its kinda kewl and handy... http://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/toolbar/index.html Have fun! Mark Harwood www.phunky.co.uk * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar
From: Lee Roberts [...] It's bad enough everyone thinks they need to do it, but for an accessibility group to do it I'm flabbergasted. most current screenreaders / assistive technologie hook into IE in some way to provide web browsing. so it's still a harsh reality that some user groups WILL have to use IE, and developers need to therefore at least test their pages in this browser. offering this toolbar to the developers just makes life a little easier...now if i have a page open in IE i can do most of my validation etc there as well, rather than having to copy the URL and paste it into firefox, to take advantage of the web developer extension. and yes, some functions - like the colour ones, which - i believe - use IE's proprietary filters to simulate b/w display etc - are very useful and not directly replicated in other toolbars (Mozilla/Firefox ones or otherwise). see it as another one of many tools available to developers, not as a social commentary or a validation of IE's merits. Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar
Regardless of what the AT supports or not makes no difference in what browsers toolbar developers can support. Here's why they don't support any other browser: IE is a fixed solution with very little change. IE6 came out in 2001 and has had only one service pack release in three years. SP2 is due out soon, but no one knows when it will be out. The Gecko based browsers are fluid due to their open source nature. Opera could be easily supported, but no one makes tools for that small group. Safari could be supported, but I don't know of any company that adds plug-in toolbars for it either. Thanks, Lee Roberts http://www.roserockdesign.com http://www.applepiecart.com -Original Message- From: Patrick Lauke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 9:23 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar From: Lee Roberts [...] It's bad enough everyone thinks they need to do it, but for an accessibility group to do it I'm flabbergasted. most current screenreaders / assistive technologie hook into IE in some way to provide web browsing. so it's still a harsh reality that some user groups WILL have to use IE, and developers need to therefore at least test their pages in this browser. offering this toolbar to the developers just makes life a little easier...now if i have a page open in IE i can do most of my validation etc there as well, rather than having to copy the URL and paste it into firefox, to take advantage of the web developer extension. and yes, some functions - like the colour ones, which - i believe - use IE's proprietary filters to simulate b/w display etc - are very useful and not directly replicated in other toolbars (Mozilla/Firefox ones or otherwise). see it as another one of many tools available to developers, not as a social commentary or a validation of IE's merits. Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar
The voices are telling me that Lee Roberts said on 7/13/2004 11:28 AM: The Gecko based browsers are fluid due to their open source nature. Opera could be easily supported, but no one makes tools for that small group. Au contraire: http://blog.crispen.org/archives/000302.html describes hot to install the w3-dev menu and the blogging menu. -- Rev. Bob Bob Crispen bob at crispen dot org Ex Cathedra Weblog: http://blog.crispen.org/ Don't ask yourself what the world needs - ask yourself what makes you come alive, and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive. -- Howard Thurman * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar
Rev. Bob, Interesting concept there and I'm glad it works. Problem is still the same. No one made a tool for Opera. You just hacked a solution to make it do what you wanted it to do. Without your excellent knowledge and fine instructions the average computer user wouldn't know how to do those things. Lee Roberts http://www.roserockdesign.com http://www.applepiecart.com -Original Message- From: Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar The voices are telling me that Lee Roberts said on 7/13/2004 11:28 AM: The Gecko based browsers are fluid due to their open source nature. Opera could be easily supported, but no one makes tools for that small group. Au contraire: http://blog.crispen.org/archives/000302.html describes hot to install the w3-dev menu and the blogging menu. -- Rev. Bob Bob Crispen bob at crispen dot org Ex Cathedra Weblog: http://blog.crispen.org/ Don't ask yourself what the world needs - ask yourself what makes you come alive, and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive. -- Howard Thurman * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar
From: Lee Roberts [...] the average computer user wouldn't know how to do those things. Once more, with gusto: the toolbar is for *developers*, not average *users* Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively. [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] http://www.splintered.co.uk | http://www.photographia.co.uk | http://redux.deviantart.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar
The reasons why the new version of the web accessibility toolbar is IE only: 1. there was a gap in the market, no tools comparable to those available for mozilla were/are available for IE 2. our programming expertise is limited (if somebody wants to work with us on versions for other browsers/operating systems we'd be interested) 3. our resources are very limited as this project is unfunded so we work on it between paid work and in our spare time. 4. while some people realise that there are better browsers than IE out there, their uptake is still very small , and my original idea was to raise awareness of accessibility issues and provide the tools to the masses. 5. For better or worse many assistive technology users use IE for web browsing, so i tend to use it for accessibility testing and browsing due to this circumstance. 6. What time I have had to work on developing the toolbar has so far been directed at improving the functionality and collaborating with others to create versions in other languages. with regards Steven Faulkner Web Accessibility Consultant National Information Library Service (NILS) 454 Glenferrie Road Kooyong Victoria 3144 Phone: (613) 9864 9281 Fax: (613) 9864 9210 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] National Information Library Service A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar
Congratulations to NILS for such a fantastic tool. Your use of the simulator is perfection and can help people understand how others view their web sites. Steven, I thank you and your fellow programmers. Lee Roberts http://www.roserockdesign.com http://www.applepiecart.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 7:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar The reasons why the new version of the web accessibility toolbar is IE only: 1. there was a gap in the market, no tools comparable to those available for mozilla were/are available for IE 2. our programming expertise is limited (if somebody wants to work with us on versions for other browsers/operating systems we'd be interested) 3. our resources are very limited as this project is unfunded so we work on it between paid work and in our spare time. 4. while some people realise that there are better browsers than IE out there, their uptake is still very small , and my original idea was to raise awareness of accessibility issues and provide the tools to the masses. 5. For better or worse many assistive technology users use IE for web browsing, so i tend to use it for accessibility testing and browsing due to this circumstance. 6. What time I have had to work on developing the toolbar has so far been directed at improving the functionality and collaborating with others to create versions in other languages. with regards Steven Faulkner Web Accessibility Consultant National Information Library Service (NILS) 454 Glenferrie Road Kooyong Victoria 3144 Phone: (613) 9864 9281 Fax: (613) 9864 9210 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] National Information Library Service A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
